[HN Gopher] The Source of Europe's Mild Climate
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The Source of Europe's Mild Climate
Author : PaulHoule
Score : 61 points
Date : 2024-01-27 16:11 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.americanscientist.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.americanscientist.org)
| stavros wrote:
| > England is blessed with its pleasant climate
|
| Two sentences in and I already have a thousand questions.
| gottorf wrote:
| England does have a pleasant climate, rather conducive to human
| life, both globally and especially among its peer latitude
| locations. Is your quip that it's dreary and rainy often?
| switch007 wrote:
| We Brits are grumpy at the moment from weeks of storms, snow,
| -10c to 5c temperatures, wind, rain, short days...
|
| Nobody (edit: here) would call it 'pleasant' right now
|
| Fingers crossed for a 35c-40c heat wave in summer ... what
| with our uninsulated houses without AC !
| Steven420 wrote:
| Here in Canada we just got through a cold snap that had
| temperatures down to almost -40c so... I would definitely
| call that pleasant :)
| switch007 wrote:
| Ah hah I did mean "nobody here". I can't think of a
| single friend or family member who isn't depressed by the
| weather and ready for it to be over!
|
| Of course, we shouldn't ever complain about anything as
| there are children dying in Africa :) ! /s
| bcrosby95 wrote:
| Yeah it's been freezing where I am too, around 15c during
| the day.
| Steven420 wrote:
| Sounds like you guys need to start doing the wim hof
| method :) you actually start to appreciate the cold
| graemep wrote:
| Embarrassingly so. When we start complaining how cold it is
| because it went below freezing in winter, we really must
| look pathetic to Canadians, Finns, Russians etc.
|
| We also start having people saying things (and writing
| articles) about how the remember how much worse it was in
| 1965(?).
|
| Warm summers just lead to more moaning that gives a
| different lot of countries a chance to laugh at us.
|
| I suppose I should be grateful there are not many people
| who can go on about their memories of the summer of 1911.
| tobz1000 wrote:
| As always, remember to consider humidity when compararing
| locations - it can make both cold and hot weather feel
| much harsher. I'm more comfortable in 40c at low humidity
| than 25c at 90%. The UK experiences much more of the
| latter.
| rsynnott wrote:
| I think the point is that that's fairly unusual, tho,
| whereas if you look at places on the same latitude, they're
| normally far, far worse, every year.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Heck, it's broadly comparable to the PNW, but drier, and I
| consider PNW to be pretty pleasant all considered.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Compared to Finland it seems pretty great...
| stavros wrote:
| Sure, but nobody described Finland's climate as "pleasant"
| either.
| somewhereoutth wrote:
| Nine months of winter followed by three months of bad weather
| nytesky wrote:
| Well it's at same latitude of Quebec, so compare winters in
| both places.
| stavros wrote:
| It has _milder_ climate, but milder does not mean pleasant.
| dwater wrote:
| Quebec is pretty big so this doesn't tell the whole story. To
| picture it as an American, travel from dC to Boston (known
| for its cold winters). Then keep going the same direction for
| the same distance again. You're deep into the northern
| wilderness, but at the same latitude as the UK, which has a
| comparably balmy climate.
| kgwgk wrote:
| ChatGPT says: "If you travel from Washington D.C. to Boston
| and then continue in the same direction for the same
| distance, you would arrive at a point with the approximate
| coordinates of 45.80degN latitude and 64.73degW longitude.
| This location is in the Atlantic Ocean, southeast of New
| Brunswick and Nova Scotia, Canada."
|
| Quebec is a pretty big province (with almost the whole
| population in the south part anyway) but also a city. I
| guess an American can easily picture the location of
| Montreal 45.5degN (30 miles north of New York/Vermont) or
| Quebec City 46.8degN (70 miles east of north Maine). Both
| are quite south of London (51.5degN) or Paris (48.9degN).
| (For reference, most of the US-Canadian border runs along
| the 49degN parallel.)
| samatman wrote:
| I assumed it was a literary reference to Blake:
| I will not cease from Mental Fight, Nor shall my Sword
| sleep in my hand: Till we have built Jerusalem,
| In England's green & pleasant Land.
|
| The British, broadly speaking, are familiar with this quotation
| (the poem was set as a popular hymn); when they refer to the
| climate as pleasant, it's somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
| tetris11 wrote:
| It's an interesting article but I have to say that I've come out
| of it without any clear answer other than "the gulf stream would
| give a few degrees difference at max"
| actionfromafar wrote:
| Isn't a few degrees a lot though?
| brabel wrote:
| Yes, but the overall difference is more than a dozen degrees.
| Nearly all of it is accounted by the maritime weather (i.e.
| wind blowing from the water, which has more moderate
| variations in temperature than land) and by the "waving" of
| the prevailing winds caused by mountains in North America,
| which just so happens cause the winds to go south over land,
| and then turn Northeast over the Atlantic, bringing warm air
| to Europe... the relative contribution of the Atlantic
| Conveyor is much smaller than these other two.
| datastoat wrote:
| The article explained that there are two roughly equal drivers:
| (1) Water is a better heat reserve than land, and winds tend to
| blow eastwards, so Europe gets air warmed by the sea and the US
| east coat gets colder air that's come from the land. (2) The
| joint effect of the altitude of the Rockies and the angular
| rotation of the earth mean that air currents are southeast over
| the Rockies and then northeast, so arctic air gets pulled down
| and then pushed back up over the US east coast.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| I don't know how long I read looking for these answers. Tank-
| you for your service.
| mediumsmart wrote:
| Does that mean that the air in Europe is warmed by the other
| seawater that is not part of the gulfstream myth and the cold
| arctic air gets pushed back to US while the warmer air stays
| in Europe? So in reality the mild weather in Europe is a
| result of the angular rotation of planet earth in combination
| with the Rockies altitude?
| wongarsu wrote:
| Or in short: Western Europe's climate is what you would
| expect from a place close to an ocean. Especially when by
| Europe you mean the island that's Great Britain. It's the US
| East coast that's weird, with a climate that's a lot more
| continental than you would naively expect.
| patientzero wrote:
| When looking only at 3 continental coasts, 2 West coasts
| and one East coast, the East one is just weird seems like
| it is missing the point just stated.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| a few degrees is a lot, globally a few degrees less means ice
| age
| Wytwwww wrote:
| Or Paris getting about as cold on average in winter as
| Washington DC
| Nevin1901 wrote:
| Has the author ever been to The Netherlands. I wouldn't consider
| that climate "mild"
| nerdponx wrote:
| Have you ever been to anywhere in North America at the same
| latitude as Amsterdam? Summer gets above 30 C and winter gets
| below -10 C, with frequent extreme weather events like
| thunderstorms, wildfires, "nor'easter" blizzards, even
| hurricanes once every few decades. European weather at the same
| latitude is comparatively much more moderate.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Is this valid also for places in US directly next to oceans?
| IMHO ocean shores are pretty mild in places all over the
| world in those lattitudes I've visited.
|
| We also have harsh dry continental weather in Europe, you
| just have to move a bit more east, Russia starts to have its
| meteorological say.
|
| Ie my own Slovakia has generally much lower humidity compared
| to say Switzerland or France, summers and winters and
| everything in between. Younger back home I've skied in -30C,
| and also experienced above 30 regularly during summers.
|
| This is coming from decade and a half spending here in the
| western Europe. Coming home say on Christmas is always quite
| a shock for my breathing aparatus, more humidity simplifies
| breathing and infections.
| Tagbert wrote:
| The US Eastern coast has a generally more extreme climate
| than the European west coast. The prevailing wind patterns
| are west to east so the harsh continental air is blown over
| the US East coast and the relatively warmer Atlantic air is
| blown over Europe.
|
| The US west coast is mild near the ocean, but quickly hits
| mountains and the Eastern side of those mountains has a
| much more extreme climate. Seattle has a climate not too
| different than London and much more mild than Boston.
| javcasas wrote:
| "9 meses de invierno y 3 de infierno" (9 months of winter and
| 3 of hell) - an old saying from my old city in Mainland
| Spain. -5C in winter, 40C in summer. Also thunderstorms,
| golf-ball sized hailstorms, prolongued droughs and quite a
| few wildfires.
|
| Is that extreme enough by your standards?
| bgnn wrote:
| NL is quite mild no? It rarely goes down to -10C or so.
| CalRobert wrote:
| It's my first winter here but it's extremely mild I'd say.
| bgnn wrote:
| And this winter was very rainy and cold compared to average.
| CalRobert wrote:
| Historically would it not have been colder given how rarely
| canals freeze now?
| ghaff wrote:
| What's your yardstick? I'd say the Netherlands is pretty mild
| compared to a lot of places.
|
| Snowfall is fairly uncommon and the average is maybe 10-inches
| a year in Amsterdam. Summers are fairly moderate.
|
| So, yes, I would say it had a mild climate compared to most
| places. If you're looking at Mediterranean climates, there are
| very few of those.
| jsnell wrote:
| It absolutely is a mild climate, when compared to other
| continents. Netherlands is located roughly between the
| latitudes of Calgary and Edmonton.
| boc wrote:
| North Americans are used to more extreme climates... by their
| standards The Netherlands is very mild.
| ghaff wrote:
| It's one reason why parts of California are so attractive to
| a lot of people. By their lights, no place else in the US (or
| Canada) has an acceptable climate year-round.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Also ready access to variance in temperatures. Its possible
| to surf and ski in one day with a brief stop in the mojave
| desert in between.
| ghaff wrote:
| Whatever issues I have with California, the climate and
| nature overall are hard to beat relative to just about
| anywhere on the planet.
| kgwgk wrote:
| Not sure what "anywheres" are you including in your
| comparison but when it comes to variety geographical
| extension matters. California is larger than Japan or New
| Zealand (it's also more compact though).
| irrational wrote:
| You can do the same thing in Oregon, and you can do it
| 365 days out of the year (if you ski at Timberline). And
| there is no desert in between.
| yread wrote:
| There isn't any milder climate. Both summers and winters can be
| 10C and rain and wind
| weinzierl wrote:
| You have to compare the same latitudes. For example New York
| and Madrid are roughly equal and New York has clearly the much
| harsher weather.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| This is going to be an uphill battle (international teacher's
| guide on comparing Japanese and British climates):
|
| > "In the British case, even though the southernmost point of
| England lies some 300 miles north of the northernmost point of
| Japan, the Isles have significantly warmer winters, thanks to the
| Atlantic Ocean and its Gulf Stream, which carries warm equatorial
| water up the eastern seaboard of North America and thence
| eastward toward Ireland. This warmer water raises the temperature
| of westerly surface winds enough so that the Isles experience
| ample cold, winter rain but very little snow."
|
| The article doesn't go into the basics of gyre formation in the
| ocean basins, which is driven by the Coriolis force and the
| global atmospheric circulation, but western intensification
| boundary currents (e.g. Gulf Stream) arise from that physical
| phenomena, and thus the Gulf Stream wouldn't be 'shut down' by
| large glacial meltwater releases, at most it would just be pushed
| south.
|
| P.S. Land permafrost likely sequesters at least as much carbon as
| the deep ocean does during ice ages, and the whole 'oceanic
| conveyor belt' theory of how atmospheric CO2 drops during ice
| ages isn't as solid as some claim.
| adamdegas wrote:
| Wouldn't this same effect also lead to more potential
| hurricanes in the Isles as oceans continue to warm? I'm
| thinking something like Acapulco where Hurricane Otis rapidly
| progressed from a mild storm to a Cat 5 hurricane due to warm
| waters.
|
| Strangely, though, the UK hasn't had too many hurricanes in its
| history, which is why I'm curious.
|
| Edit: I may have answered my own question. Even with a higher
| likelihood of storms, I think the mountainous and hilly
| topography makes it hard for storms to really hit the UK, which
| might be why there have been few hurricanes in the past.
| irrational wrote:
| >Our conclusion was that the large difference in winter
| temperature between western Europe and eastern North America was
| caused about equally by the contrast between the maritime climate
| on one side and the continental climate on the other, and by the
| large-scale waviness set up by air flow over the Rocky Mountains.
|
| Huh, when I started the article, the Rocky Mountains being the
| cause might have been the last thing I guessed.
| WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
| I always thought it was due to the Sahara, I often read about how
| Sahara sands turn European cities Orange during sandstorms, you'd
| think the same could be said about the weather
| saiya-jin wrote:
| We get the orange dump from time to time but its not like we
| get it often.
|
| The one time last year? it fell on winter snow was the only
| time I recall in last decade+, and on glaciers this layer is
| still clearly visible. Not many others imprinted there, just
| few from past decades.
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