[HN Gopher] Fossil is quitting smartwatches
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Fossil is quitting smartwatches
        
       Author : jmsflknr
       Score  : 97 points
       Date   : 2024-01-27 00:17 UTC (22 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | RattlesnakeJake wrote:
       | Not that anything great came of it, but Fossil was doing the
       | full-featured "smartwatch" thing long before anyone else:
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_Wrist_PDA
       | 
       | My teenage self wanted one of these so badly, but my married self
       | is glad I never had the opportunity to be seen wearing one.
        
         | dmitrygr wrote:
         | It was actually pretty cool. The limitations were manageable
         | and playing gameboy games on your watch was pretty fun in class
        
         | apantel wrote:
         | Does that have Dopewars?
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | I had one! It was... functional, but limited. The tiny stylus
         | that slotted into the strap was a good indication of its
         | problems.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | Love it, back when tech served the user (poorly) instead of
         | corporations first.
        
         | coffeebeqn wrote:
         | You can always wear one now that you're locked down anyway
        
       | stonecharioteer wrote:
       | I own a Fossil Hybrid Smartwatch. It's a near device, scratches
       | both my itches for a good looking watch and a vibrating motor.
       | 
       | That is until I got the Casio G-Shock GD350. I can't hear the
       | alarm of most watches when I sleep, so I needed a watch that
       | vibrates. I also swim so I need something that's decently
       | waterproof. A G-Shock is practically indestructible.
        
         | dharmab wrote:
         | I completely shattered my wrist some years back in an extreme
         | circumstance. The GShock on that wrist was fine, and still
         | works. I did have to replace the strap and a bent spring bar.
        
         | az09mugen wrote:
         | I own a Fossil Hybrid 6 with e-ink and I'm very happy with it.
         | The only features I needed were step counting, notifications,
         | and the date. The customization of the screen is well thougt
         | and allows a lot a of custom "watch faces" . By disabling all
         | the other unnecessary stuff (alexa, heartbeat, O2 sensor,
         | meteo,..), I can last more than one month without charging it.
         | I will look into the G-Shock you're talking if (I hope not) my
         | smartwatch comes to die.
        
       | ianburrell wrote:
       | I think Google's strategy of using watch makers for WearOS is
       | dead, Fossil was last and biggest one. With Android Wear (WearOS
       | 1), it was all electronics companies. With WearOS 2, it was watch
       | makers. The watches were slow cause of using old processors. But
       | they had normal and interesting designs.
       | 
       | Then WearOS 3 unified Android and Samsung's Tizen. Also, Google
       | makes own Pixel Watch. The new watches had better processors. I
       | got the feeling that the watch makers had a hard time with new
       | tech.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | It is going to be the same dead end as Android Things, when
         | they gave up on Brillo and decided to push a mini-Android
         | without NDK instead, naturally lost to Arduinos and ESP32 of
         | the world.
         | 
         | WearOS might have the NDK, but still requires beefy CPUs, as it
         | is almost a full Android for all practical purposes.
         | 
         | Whereas other smartwatch OSes are a mix of C, C++, pseudo
         | JavaScript with SVG like Zepp OS, or Monkey C on Garmin's case.
         | 
         | Most watch makers would rather keep using something like C89 or
         | Assembly, and feeble CPUs, with year long batteries.
         | 
         | Which come to think of it is was also how Pebble SDK was
         | originally.
        
         | tw04 wrote:
         | >I got the feeling that the watch makers had a hard time with
         | new tech.
         | 
         | I got the feeling that watch makers saw Google give Samsung a
         | 6-month head start on WearOS 3 (as a bribe to kill Tizen) and
         | said: yaaaa... we're not playing this game.
         | 
         | https://www.androidcentral.com/samsung-and-googles-secrecy-w...
        
       | whatever1 wrote:
       | Like with tablets, only apple knows how to make a profit out of
       | these.
        
         | happymellon wrote:
         | Just a shame that the Apple watch is completely crap.
         | 
         | [Flagged? The Apple watch is nothing like these other watches
         | being discussed. The battery life for starters is terrible.]
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | There are plenty of Android tablets in Europe, not everyone has
         | a wage to cope with Apple prices.
        
           | Kamq wrote:
           | The comment you responded to is about profit, not market
           | penetration.
           | 
           | You can get a lot of market penetration by having a series of
           | companies spin up, ultimately fail to become profitable, and
           | collapse. Especially with a market that's incredibly price
           | conscious.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | To have a profit in a specific country there have to be
             | enough people with iDevices to start with.
             | 
             | Like US is basically Apple takes it all, the rest of the
             | world there are country where only rich kids get iDevices,
             | those country apps companies care about the whole
             | population.
        
         | jijijijij wrote:
         | And like with the iPad, Apple doesn't make a profit from
         | selling hardware, but hooking you up on a fantasy of a digital
         | life, they only ever tease technologically, but never really
         | deliver. At some point, you will always find yourself held back
         | by artificial and practical limitations (at least if you desire
         | to actually use the hardware as advertised), with the false
         | promise of yet another Apple gadget finally making you whole.
         | They don't make profit from producing either tablets, or smart
         | watches, but the sunken cost fallacy in their ultimately
         | crippling ecosystem.
         | 
         | If Apple made a profit by selling standalone devices, I could
         | respect this argument. But _especially_ with the iPad and its
         | fully capable processing power to replace a general purpose
         | computing device, it 's easy to see how their business
         | "ingenuity" is set up.
         | 
         | As someone, who fell for it twice, I think frustration and
         | sadness about yet another competitor dropping out is absolutely
         | warranted and relatable.
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | Why does this keep happening? I loved Pebble, they get butchered.
       | I replace it with Fossil, now they quit.
       | 
       | All I want is a simple watch with simple features that doesn't
       | require charging every day. Their hybrid line with some sort of
       | e-ink (like) display really is perfect to me.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | Mechanical with automatic movement (wound spontaneously by
         | motion of your wrist).
        
         | fsckboy wrote:
         | > _All I want is a simple watch with simple features that doesn
         | 't require charging every day_
         | 
         | casio?
        
           | j7ake wrote:
           | My Casio vibration watch has 10 year battery life.
        
             | whycome wrote:
             | model?
        
           | INTPenis wrote:
           | I don't think they have a hybrid watch.
           | 
           | Or any smartwatch with a long lasting display that only needs
           | charging every month, like the Fossil hybrid ones did.
        
             | xander158 wrote:
             | Check out the Casio GPRH1000
        
               | asimovfan wrote:
               | Same module with gbd h2000.
        
           | nullify88 wrote:
           | Withings
        
         | martyvis wrote:
         | The Garmin Instinct range is great. It natively is a smart
         | watch but I guess you can turn it off, and just use the GPS to
         | sync time. I have the original version and it lasts 2 weeks on
         | a charge. The always-on memory-in-pixel is most readable in
         | bright light (and had a back light that can be turned on by
         | button or wrist twist if you like)
        
           | INTPenis wrote:
           | 14 days battery time is pretty good, but nothing compares to
           | the 1month+ my Fossil Machine keeps going.
           | 
           | When you only need notifications, and some music control, it
           | works really well.
        
             | davkan wrote:
             | The solar version can last indefinitely if you're outdoors
             | for a decent amount of time.
        
             | morsch wrote:
             | They also work well when you want to tell the _time_ ,
             | which is more than can be said for some smart watches.
        
             | lloeki wrote:
             | My Garmin Fenix 7 Solar happily crosses the 20-25d mark,
             | depending on usage.
             | 
             | I have most features enabled though, using it as "just a
             | watch" (which is what the tunable battery saver mode is,
             | which I used a fee times in a bind) it turns 2d remaining
             | into 1w+, so I would not be surprised if it would turn the
             | 20-25d into 50-75d ballpark, possibly more.
             | 
             | Instinct Solar and Crossover Solar seem to give the above a
             | run with much longer times, a friend is getting a Crossover
             | this month because of that. Unfortunately if the claim is
             | true he's not going to be able to report success for a
             | looong time...
        
               | pjmlp wrote:
               | Having its own tiny OS with Monkey C, instead of a cutted
               | down Android variant, is also a big help for long battery
               | life.
        
             | nullify88 wrote:
             | Withings watches offer a similar battery life, it really
             | depends on how much the watch vibrates when notifications
             | are routed to the watch.
             | 
             | I love my Withings. Given what I've read about the Fossil
             | application experience, I assume Withings is better in that
             | regard too.
        
               | mananaysiempre wrote:
               | Withings watches don't seem to have a GPS radio, though.
               | The advertised "connected GPS" means GPS date pulled over
               | Bluetooth from your smartphone, correlated with other
               | data from the watch by an app running on your smartphone,
               | at which point it becomes unclear how this counts as a
               | feature of the watch in the first place.
        
             | zsoltkacsandi wrote:
             | My Garmin Instinct 2X lasts 42 days.
        
           | notesinthefield wrote:
           | I think Ive owned every smart watch from the very old school
           | tom toms and polars to apple watches to early android wear
           | models and the Instinct 2 Solar is the best balance of
           | functionality and battery life Ive ever seen.
        
         | cglong wrote:
         | I've never used them myself, but I always thought the Withings
         | watches looked nice and filled this niche well.
        
           | blacksmith_tb wrote:
           | I wore a Withings for a year, it wasn't a terrible watch, but
           | the tiny round display is really too small to be practical
           | for scrolling notifications. Fossil/Citizen/Skagen all make
           | variations of my current watch[1] which have much larger
           | e-ink displays, are pretty easy to make your own faces for
           | (just PNGs with some circles/transparent holes you can set to
           | show data). Battery life is ~2wk though I don't use the heart
           | monitor much.
           | 
           | 1: https://www.skagen.com/en-us/smartwatches/learn-
           | more/gen-6-h...
        
         | rwbt wrote:
         | Is that really that surprising? The thing about having software
         | everywhere is that it tends to create ecosystems. The one or
         | two companies that control those ecosystems tend to dictate
         | everything which snuffs out a lot of these products.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | I'm right there with you. After my Pebble, I tried tons of
         | watches and settled on a garmin forerunner. It is pretty good
         | and I do enjoy the larger screen. But there are still days when
         | I wish I could get the battery replaced in my Pebble and switch
         | back to it.
         | 
         | I have been hoping that fossil (whose watch I didn't pick
         | originally because I found the interface sluggish, text hard to
         | read, and light difficult to trigger) would release an updated
         | model that would be my next watch. Pretty bummed to see this
         | news.
        
         | happymellon wrote:
         | Indeed, after my final Pebble died I moved to Fitbit because
         | their Versa line gave me a similar experience, although I miss
         | the eink, then Google picked them up and proceeded to trash it.
         | 
         | They should have leaned in to it and made the Versa the
         | equivalent Pixel Watch "a" series. Instead we have nothing good
         | left.
        
           | Moldoteck wrote:
           | Try Garmin forerunner, for example forerunner 245 music. Not
           | the same as pts but close enough: a lot of buttons,
           | transflective display, some sort of trimmed quick access, big
           | battery life
        
         | graphe wrote:
         | The Amazfit BIP does all that and can be hacked. The bip2 is
         | much faster and can't be hacked. Both can have GPS and I ran
         | mine for many weeks at a time with notifications, sleep
         | tracking, pedometer, weather, etc.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | The Amazfit GTR4 is also quite nice, with a crisp display,
           | multiple physical buttons, and weeks of battery life. However
           | I found it became unpaired from my phone every week or so,
           | and I didn't feel awesome about entrusting my GPS-based
           | location to a company that I don't know/trust. I also wanted
           | better music controls via the physical buttons, which it
           | didn't really do well.
           | 
           | How did you hack the BIP, and what did you do with it then?
        
             | graphe wrote:
             | It was a Russian forum, but I can't find it.
             | https://github.com/MNVolkov/libbip
             | https://likeapp.soft112.com it's called BipOS.
             | 
             | The device is safe since on iOS I restrict the Zepp app
             | from any internet, but you need to refresh your GPS with
             | the app. On Android it's much safer with something like
             | gadgetbridge.
        
               | gnicholas wrote:
               | How do you restrict an app from internet on iOS? I know
               | how to turn off cellular access but didn't think it was
               | possible to cut off all access (other than going into
               | airplane mode before opening it, and turning off
               | background refresh).
        
           | whycome wrote:
           | I had and loved the BIP but the glue failed and the screen
           | popped off. Pretty cool little device. What kinds of hacks
           | are doable?
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | As someone that was into Casio smartwatches back into the day,
         | after they lose their novelty, all what most people want is
         | knowing time.
         | 
         | I got a basic Amazfit model now, besides time, I only care
         | about SMS notifications and having it vibrate on calls.
         | 
         | A single charge lasts around a month.
        
         | kaliqt wrote:
         | Garmin, every time.
        
         | TMWNN wrote:
         | As others have said, Amazfit Bip is the answer. You want to
         | find the first one (Bip, or Bip Lite); it has the longest
         | battery life. The watch has notifications, weather, and 40,000
         | third-party faces. I get consistent ~20 days of battery life
         | with heart rate check every minute (automatically speeds up to
         | every couple of seconds during exercise).
         | 
         | I bought Bip in 2018. I bought a $20 used Bip Lite as
         | replacement in 2020 after Bip failed because of a known issue
         | with the case's glue (fixed in later models), since I always
         | run with my phone so don't need Bip's own GPS.
        
         | Saris wrote:
         | Garmin.
         | 
         | They've got models with various kinds of displays, from
         | transflective outdoor usable ones to the usual OLED.
         | 
         | Battery life on the non-OLED models can be very good too,
         | especially on the solar ones, a month or more in most cases.
        
           | linsomniac wrote:
           | Note it can vary depending greatly on settings, which is kind
           | of nice. I have a Forerunner 745 (sweet spot of features and
           | price on Prime day), and I can get, IIRC, a solid week plus
           | with the default settings. I ended up dialing way up the
           | settings to get better tracking of sleep, which took the
           | battery life to around 2.5 days.
        
           | alephxyz wrote:
           | Yep. I'm willing to pay extra for something dead simple that
           | does what it needs to do and nothing more. No ads or
           | distractions, connecting to sensors over ANT+ "just works",
           | devices are supported for years, and if I think of a useful
           | feature or metric to display I can create a monkey C module
           | in about an hour. Makes me wish all IOT devices were like
           | that. My only gripe with them is their segmentation of
           | devices with nearly identical hardware into different
           | segments (e.g. edge explore vs edge 130) and walling off
           | features.
        
             | Saris wrote:
             | Garmin is a little bit closed off, that's the main
             | downside.
             | 
             | And as far as I can tell their app needs internet to sync
             | data from the watch even though it's connected via
             | bluetooth, I assume it's uploading to their servers for
             | processing before viewing in app.
             | 
             | Other than that it works great, I have no complaints about
             | my Venu 2.
        
         | atombender wrote:
         | I bought my wife a Withings ScanWatch, and it's really sleek.
         | [1]
         | 
         | It's among the few hybrids that look like a proper, stylish
         | watch; I compared it with hybrids from Garmin and some other
         | leading brands, and Withings was without doubt the one with the
         | best construction quality and aesthetics. (I didn't consider
         | Fossil, not sure why.) Garmin's models are mostly plastic, but
         | even the higher-end models have a kind of cheap look to them.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.withings.com/us/en/scanwatch-2
        
           | mgh2 wrote:
           | Surprised Masimo did not sue them yet for oximeter
        
             | pavlov wrote:
             | Withings is French, which would complicate Masimo's legal
             | strategy. They've probably got their hands full going after
             | the big fish in America where their patents were originally
             | granted.
        
           | geraldhh wrote:
           | is the temperature monitoring accurate enough to track
           | ovulation cycles?
        
             | atombender wrote:
             | It's designed to be [1]. I don't personally know how
             | accurate it is.
             | 
             | [1] https://support.withings.com/hc/en-
             | us/articles/1853769342926...
        
               | geraldhh wrote:
               | while the linked document is a good primer on
               | menstruation, it doesn't say anything about the watch(es)
               | capabilities in this regard.
               | 
               | thx anyways
        
               | atombender wrote:
               | This is probably a better article:
               | https://support.withings.com/hc/en-
               | us/articles/1958311747419...
        
           | imp0cat wrote:
           | These look great, hopefully they can get a NFC-enabled
           | version out soon.
        
           | Larrikin wrote:
           | I was excited because I generally like Withings, use many of
           | their other products and hadn't even thought to check if they
           | made watches.
           | 
           | I'm ready to ditch Fitbit as Google seems to be doing
           | everything they can to kill it. They bricked a bunch of
           | devices and told everyone to just buy a new one.
           | 
           | But it's frustrating that so many companies insist on the
           | huge traditional size watch faces. I don't need or want the
           | time or apps on my wrist, just the health features. All the
           | competitors to Fitbit, especially Garmin, seem to be having
           | their own competition of who can make the ugliest device that
           | they can convince people to buy.
        
         | gklitz wrote:
         | > that doesn't require charging every day.
         | 
         | Why is this an issue? I have an Apple Watch and Every night
         | when i take it off I put it in the charger. At this point it
         | would be more confusing if I only needed to do this every other
         | or every third day.
        
           | brianwawok wrote:
           | I'm annoyed every time I go overnight somewhere I have to
           | pack a charger. I don't use many smart features...
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | then why have smart watch?
        
               | alternatex wrote:
               | So if you don't have to charge every day it's not a smart
               | watch?
               | 
               | It's not that difficult to produce a smart watch that can
               | keep a battery for a week so I don't understand why you
               | feel the need to condition people to get used to the
               | horrible battery lives of popular watches as if it's the
               | only way.
               | 
               | I'm a big fan of Garmin's hybrid watches that are smart
               | "enough" but provide a 9 day battery life. Recently,
               | Mobvoi made it possible to have an Android Wear smart
               | watch with a multi-day battery (TicWatch). Something that
               | Google Pixel will have you think to be impossible.
        
           | saidinesh5 wrote:
           | Half the reason i use a "smart watch" is basically to track
           | my sleep.
           | 
           | My old Amazfit bip seems like it may give up on me any time
           | now.. but I still can't find something that comes close to
           | this in terms of it's 4 week battery life. Not even fitness
           | trackers.
           | 
           | I already have to charge my laptop, smartphone, steam deck
           | daily. If i have to add earphones and smart watch to that
           | list, it would be just too much for me.
        
             | oezi wrote:
             | I just take the Apple Watch off for showering in the
             | morning.
        
               | zamadatix wrote:
               | Same, pain to deal with a wet watch anyways.
        
           | garrickvanburen wrote:
           | I charge it over breakfast and it's usually fully charged in
           | time my morning run
        
           | Aardwolf wrote:
           | What if you want it to measure your sleep?
        
             | dotnet00 wrote:
             | You can stick it on the charger while eating, taking a
             | shower or whatever else. With my samsung watch I usually
             | stick it on the charger in the morning or in the hours
             | before bed, when I don't really care about collecting any
             | data/don't have to worry about urgent notifications.
             | 
             | And if I'm out somewhere and don't have my watch charger
             | handy, I can stick it on the back of my phone and charge it
             | from that.
        
             | deergomoo wrote:
             | Most Apple Watches these days will easily get ~1.5 days of
             | battery. Mine's usually down to about 30% by the time I
             | wake up, and is back to 100% in roughly the hour my morning
             | routine takes.
        
           | notesinthefield wrote:
           | If for any reason you forget, its useless. If youre traveling
           | and forget the charger there is exactly one place you can get
           | another. Its also pretty ugly.
        
             | nozzlegear wrote:
             | I assume you mean that the Apple Store is the only place
             | you can get a charger? I don't know where you live or where
             | you're traveling, but I just checked on Walmart and they're
             | in stock, available for pickup at the two Walmarts within
             | 20 miles of where I live in rural Iowa. Same for Best Buy
             | and Target.
             | 
             | > Its also pretty ugly.
             | 
             | Subjective obviously but I quite like how they look.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | I've had two Apple watches and never charged them in an
             | Apple charger. I have a third party charger that works
             | great and a different third-party battery-based charger.
        
           | ilikehurdles wrote:
           | Not having to think about charging another device is huge,
           | and it charges so quickly that if I forget before an activity
           | that I can plug it in while I'm getting ready or showering
           | and have plenty of juice to last throughout.
           | 
           | Real reason I got my forerunner though is for backpacking and
           | skiing, so conditions where I'll be in extreme temperatures
           | batteries don't like, without cell phone service, without
           | power overnight, and potentially needing to navigate on
           | offline maps. I know this doesn't reflect the average buyer
           | though.
        
           | maxglute wrote:
           | It was glaring issue when I upgraded to a smart watch that
           | recquired daily charging from smartband that I charged every
           | other week.
        
         | StevePerkins wrote:
         | There's still Garmin... but honestly, I don't understand why
         | people insist on paying hundreds of dollars for a "name", when
         | the watch you are describing is only worth $50, give or take.
         | 
         | Amazfit, Xiamoni, Pautios, etc. There's a flood of competitors
         | on Amazon selling the functionality you describe at a price
         | level that makes it non-worthwhile for the "name" brands.
         | That's why those famous brands exit the space.
         | 
         | There are two leagues of "smart" watches. At the high-end,
         | "cell phone on your wrist" tier, there's Apple and just enough
         | smaller players to keep Apple somewhat honest. It's really more
         | fashion accessory than practical device.
         | 
         | At the basic "pedometer, Bluetooth notifications from my phone,
         | and week-long battery" tier, there are tons of options. But
         | margins are razor thin, so the cool names don't play in that
         | space. Down here you're talking about a purely utilitarian
         | device rather than a fashion accessory.
        
           | robryk wrote:
           | Something that has gps, can display a bit of a map, and is
           | waterproof is somewhere between your two leagues and I think
           | it's genuinely useful.
        
             | dorfsmay wrote:
             | Why a GPS? Do you ever go anywhere without your phone where
             | a GPS would be useful?
        
               | Gare wrote:
               | It's great for outdoor sports - it's uncomfortable to
               | carry your phone while running or swimming, for example.
        
               | filoleg wrote:
               | Not the person you are replying to, but I find it vastly
               | more convenient to not pull out my phone all the time to
               | check the directions to make sure I am on the right
               | track. With a smartwatch, checking directions feels about
               | as frictionless and simple as checking an analog watch
               | for time.
               | 
               | For those running, I can see it being useful as well. GPS
               | for tracking the morning run, with zero need to carry
               | your heavy phone with you. And (talking about apple watch
               | specifically, as that's the one I have experience with),
               | you can even connect your wireless headphones directly
               | and listen to music too without needing a phone.
        
               | galleywest200 wrote:
               | When out backpacking its nice to have a GPS that is
               | attached to your arm and always works, as opposed to
               | fighting for signal with your phone.
        
               | chias wrote:
               | Yes: using turn-by-turn GPS directions while riding a
               | bicycle or motorcycle. My Pebble Time was perfect for
               | this. I have not found a replacement.
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | That adds a lot of power drain.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | > just enough smaller players to keep Apple somewhat honest
           | 
           | so honest they use unlicensed tech?
        
           | stusmall wrote:
           | > There's still Garmin... but honestly, I don't understand
           | why people insist on paying hundreds of dollars for a "name",
           | 
           | Another way of saying "paying for a name" is "paying for
           | trust". When you run notifications through a smart watch you
           | give it a lot of sensitive information. For example the
           | contents of texts you receive. Depending on the
           | device/implementation it can be a lot more. If it manages
           | this data via a companion app then it's pretty easy for it to
           | phone home too.
           | 
           | I don't turn notifications on my watch, I'm distracted enough
           | as is, but if I did I'd be careful about the device I use. I
           | suspect some of those bottom of the barrel devices aren't
           | treating this sensitive level of access with the upmost care.
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | OK, but either way, the preceding comment has offered an
             | explanation for why vendors keep doing this: because they
             | can't make money in this space.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | With garmin, you can just go use the watch.
           | 
           | I have simply used the watch since the day I bought it. took
           | it out of the box, put it on my wrist.
           | 
           | I've kept track of my SLEEP, my hiking or running, I've
           | acclimatized to the mountains, I can check my resting heart
           | rate, number of steps, maps, sunrise/sunset, respiration,
           | stress, pulseox, etc..
           | 
           | It is not uploading my sexual activity.
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37514355
           | 
           | I've never put it online, connected it to my phone or
           | anything else. I've never had to create an account or upload
           | anything.
           | 
           | I put it on the charger when I jump in the shower and that is
           | all I need. A charge lasts 5-6 days.
        
             | petre wrote:
             | Fossil is in an entirely different market: fashion
             | acessories. Their smartwatches don't do much apart from
             | displaying texts and vibrating when you get a call. Whoever
             | wants a fashion item that does stuff, buys an Apple Watch
             | instead. I have a Garmin as well, since I don't care for
             | fashion items.
        
           | OldManAndTheCpp wrote:
           | The Apple Watch has best in class health sensors + fitness
           | monitoring. Cycle tracking, blood O2 sensing, ecg function
           | are all truly valuable.
           | 
           | I bought a watch for myself, my parents and my girlfriend.
           | The prompting and social aspects of the "close your rings"
           | exercise tracking have already led to a ~10 bpm decrease in
           | my girlfriend's resting heart rate, suggesting a marked
           | improvement in her cardiovascular health.
           | 
           | Personally, I find the Apple Watch somewhat ugly, but the
           | fitness features are worth the sartorial limitations!
        
           | quatrefoil wrote:
           | > I don't understand why people insist on paying hundreds of
           | dollars for a "name", when the watch you are describing is
           | only worth $50, give or take.
           | 
           | Why do people pay for The North Face, when you can have
           | knock-off brands for 1/5th the price?
           | 
           | Part of it is paying for better quality assurance, more
           | predictable and coherent UX, and so on. But a big part is
           | that yeah, this day and age, watches are fashion / status
           | accessories. They do nothing your phone can't. That doesn't
           | mean they have no value to the buyers: the continued
           | popularity of pricey mechanical watches is proof that there's
           | more to this story.
           | 
           | The problem is that smartwatches never really positioned
           | themselves as particularly... interesting. They don't signal
           | social status, they aren't pretty, they don't do anything
           | mind-blowing. They're just somewhat cheap-looking and
           | oversized black slabs that display messages from your phone,
           | clumsily.
           | 
           | So far, the closest to a "killer" application for the tech is
           | trying to gamify everyday activities by tracking steps, sleep
           | patterns, or heart rate. But how many people stay fixated on
           | this and really keep it up in the long haul? As for the
           | fashion part... there's only so much mileage you can get out
           | of the ability to change wallpapers or bands.
        
           | unethical_ban wrote:
           | I'll have to look at the market again, but two years ago the
           | "cheap smartwatch" class was buggy and shitty.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | I want a brand I trust (not to track me) when using a device
           | equipped with a GPS radio and hooked up to an app on my
           | internet-connected smartphone. I tried an Amazfit and it was
           | pretty good, but the privacy/security concerns were one of
           | the main reasons I didn't go with it.
        
         | fsflover wrote:
         | > All I want is a simple watch with simple features that
         | doesn't require charging every day.
         | 
         | Have a look at Pinetime. It won't be discontinued, since it's
         | an open-source smart watch.
        
         | maxglute wrote:
         | Basically a fitness band with 3 weeks of battery life that does
         | 90% of typical smartwatch usage. IMO this is where huawei
         | watches got it right, they're glorified smartbands with good
         | hardware with a hardware button that adds extra utility (too
         | bad non programmable).
         | 
         | But yes to epaper screen and programmable buttons would be
         | nice. Pebble was 10 years ago, I thought we'd be at commodity
         | F91W smartwatch hardware by now. And TBF $50 fitness trackers
         | are close.
        
         | screye wrote:
         | Watch lovers buy from legacy watch makers. Fitness freaks buy
         | Garmin & smart bands. Tech lovers buy the best integrated
         | software (Samsung/Apple). Quirky product fans aren't volume
         | buyers.
         | 
         | What is Fossil's identity ?
        
           | petre wrote:
           | Fashion items, stainless steel jewelry sold for the price of
           | silver. Their smartwatches are hybrids, but I've never liked
           | their baroque designs. If I was buying a fashion watch I'd
           | probably get a Skagen instead, which is also owned by Fossil.
        
         | HumblyTossed wrote:
         | What the hell does Apple's watch do that it drains the battery
         | in a little more than one day? Seems to me like it's
         | overpowered for what it is. My garmin lasts 10 days.
        
         | pizza234 wrote:
         | That really depends on which the "simple features" are, because
         | to every user, they're different, and also, what a "watch" is.
         | 
         | The reason I'm making this distinction is because at face
         | value, any fitness tracker will do. They display the
         | timme/date, have many extra simple features, and they last
         | 10/14 days.
         | 
         | If one wants something more watch-looking, there are
         | small/budget smartwatches, that are essentially fitness
         | trackers with a larger screen (and in some cases, a GPS).
         | 
         | The problem is actually the apps, which are terrible and/or
         | aggressive. Huawei display ads, and very weaselly, they
         | introduce a small delay, so that one can easily click on them
         | by accident; also, for some models, the app is not provided on
         | Google Play (!). Most, possibly all, apps keep warning the user
         | about giving location permissions, even if one doesn't care.
         | 
         | Besides very special cases (solar-powered, battery-powered
         | etc.), the smartwatch with the longest battery life was the
         | Amazfit Bip, but it was really, really terrible.
        
         | esel2k wrote:
         | Still using my pebble (I have a PTR and PTS). I gully agree
         | with what you say and would even go further. I am happy with
         | just an eInk screen and some basic features that sync like once
         | a week.
        
           | Moldoteck wrote:
           | Fyi pebble is not eink, it's transflective lcd, similar to
           | some garmin options nowadays. Basically it's an lcd without
           | backlight by default and in daylight the reflected light is
           | enough to make the content clear and readable
        
         | jnwatson wrote:
         | The Fitbit trackers last about 5 days on a charge.
        
         | jxf wrote:
         | Garmin's Fenix line is massively overkill but it's in this
         | category, and I got it for this reason. It can go weeks without
         | charging.
        
       | SoylentBob wrote:
       | I have a Fossil Neutra Smartwatch. On the upside it is a decent
       | watch, that I can wear in any context.
       | 
       | On the downside the display is really bad and won't actually
       | display anything at this point anymore, the watch is working fine
       | though. Their app and synchronization process is also horrible.
       | Synchronization is only triggered when you open the app, this
       | process then takes what feels like ages to update the information
       | in the app, and here comes the best part: You don't even get any
       | valuable insights in your workout. Just some basic bar charts and
       | sums.
       | 
       | I feel that a Watch like that still is a product I'd like to buy,
       | but the Fossil experience imo wasn't good enough overall.
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | Why has every smartwatch manufacturer (Apple included) refused to
       | just sell me a watch sized phone? These things have more
       | processing power than a gaming desktop from ten years ago. Why
       | can't they just ship a fully fledged mobile OS, with 5G hotspot,
       | external display support, and just provide my entire mobile
       | experience? Instead we're left with pointless $500 step counters.
        
         | relyks wrote:
         | Apple does sell a watch with cellular and GPS and it can
         | replace a phone (you can literally talk into it)
        
         | pharmakom wrote:
         | How would most things work on such a small screen?
         | 
         | I think the Apple Watch will become increasingly standalone.
        
         | jolmg wrote:
         | Samsung sells watches with standalone cellular. You can get an
         | eSIM for the watch and leave your phone at home. Seems their
         | Gear S from 10 years ago was the first.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Gear_S
        
         | otikik wrote:
         | The market has said they want big screens. They don't even make
         | small-sized smartphones any more. You must carry that
         | skateboard around, like everyone else.
        
         | lozenge wrote:
         | Battery life??
        
         | anonuser123456 wrote:
         | Why doesn't Apple sell the Apple Watch Ultra?
        
       | climb_stealth wrote:
       | Are there any decent hybrid smart watch alternatives? With that
       | mean I mean having phone connectivity and alarms but still an
       | analog watch.
       | 
       | My Fossil Commuter is analog. But can configure notifications
       | from the phone, and configure for each app where the hands point
       | when it vibrates.
       | 
       | Perfect for being able to have the phone on silent and just wear
       | a regular watch. I don't want to read messages on my watch. I
       | just want it to tell me when I'm getting a phone call because my
       | phone is entirely silent.
       | 
       | The battery also lasts for a year like a regular watch.
        
         | nullify88 wrote:
         | Have a look at Withings. My HR Sport watch lasts just over a
         | month on a single charge. I'm also satisfied with the
         | application experience on Android.
         | 
         | I'm surprised to see not many mentions of Withings here.
         | Perhaps it's more popular in Europe.
        
         | snoopen wrote:
         | I recently was looking at this for my partner. The best two
         | options I've seen so far is the Withings ScanWatch (actually
         | the ScanWatch 2 I think was recently released) and the Garmin
         | Vivomove Trend. I don't have direct experience with them but
         | from my research they seem decent. Of course they have limits
         | compared to a full smartwatch.
        
           | oakashes wrote:
           | I had a Withings for a couple years and ended up frustrated
           | with it. The tiny screen meant that many notifications took
           | so long to read I often just got my phone out instead. But
           | the worst thing was the lack of a "find my phone" feature.
           | 
           | I switched to the Garmin Vivomove and have been very happy
           | with it. It looks fantastic IMO, the transflective screen is
           | big enough to be useful, and it has only the features I want.
           | The only downsides are that the Garmin Android app is not as
           | well designed as the Withings app and the battery life is
           | only 4 days or so instead of a week, which feels like an
           | awkward amount of time.
        
         | yread wrote:
         | We recently got Kronaby (owned by Festina). They look nice and
         | the software is ok. We also looked at Sequent. Not sure about
         | the 5-10 year future of these two, though
        
         | ilamont wrote:
         | Citizen has tried. The first generation struggled with power,
         | connectivity, and software. The second generation is getting
         | better user reviews, and the power problems were apparently
         | solved, but the UI (button based) is tricky.
         | 
         | https://www.citizenwatch.com/us/en/collection/smartwatches/
        
         | joshlemer wrote:
         | Garmin Instinct Crossover?
        
       | TrianguloY wrote:
       | I recently bought a smartwatch. After a thorough search I ended
       | up with two options: ticwatch pro 5 and pixel watch 2. I ended
       | with the pixel, because of the size.
       | 
       | It's a shame, I really liked the ticwatch, but most watches are
       | just too big for my wrist size. The pixel is not great software-
       | side (it has a sort of wallet garden, without a pixel phone most
       | features aren't available) but ergonomically it's perfect.
       | 
       | I don't know about fossil, but for me it seems like wear
       | manufacturers haven't yet found what users want (except maybe for
       | Apple, but that's probably because there is only one option)
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | For me, and some of the other commenters here, it was more
         | about the hybrid smartwatches that have 2-week battery lives. I
         | never even tried their full-fledged smartwatches.
        
         | sofixa wrote:
         | > The pixel is not great software-side (it has a sort of wallet
         | garden, without a pixel phone most features aren't available)
         | but ergonomically it's perfect.
         | 
         | Really? Most reviews I read seemed to indicate the Pixel
         | Watches work fine with any recent Android, contrary to
         | Samsung's watches that require Samsung Android phones for most
         | features.
        
           | mikelward wrote:
           | Without a Pixel Watch, Do Not Disturb doesn't sync. I think
           | also swiping notifications away on the watch doesn't dismiss
           | them on the phone.
           | 
           | Wouldn't call that "most features", but they're quite
           | important to me.
        
           | TrianguloY wrote:
           | Do not disturb doesn't sync, you can't see the watch battery
           | from the phone, nor even get a notification when it finishes
           | charging.
           | 
           | They are not most features, I should have used "some", my
           | mistake, but for an android watch connected to an android
           | phone...it's not pleasant.
           | 
           | Still, I have them by using third party apps (one of them
           | open source where I even fixed a bug, the other from tasker)
           | which is why I prefer android to other proprietary os
           | watches.
        
       | osigurdson wrote:
       | I used my apple watch for a couple of years but the pain of daily
       | charging starts to drag.
        
         | dkasper wrote:
         | Do you not daily charge your phone?
        
           | themaninthedark wrote:
           | You don't have to unfasten a phone to charge it.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | It's a hassle to keep multiple devices charged. If 80% of
           | people have the mental bandwidth to keep their phone charged
           | daily, I'd say less than 50% would be able to do the same for
           | 2 devices.
           | 
           | Part of the reason people like tablets as a second device is
           | that you can turn off the screen and it'll maintain a charge
           | for several days. If it had to be charged as frequently as a
           | phone, people would just stick to their phone.
        
           | MSFT_Edging wrote:
           | When I commute regularly, the ~25m plugged into my car to and
           | from work will keep my phone going all week. When I work from
           | home, I'll be charging it every other day, or piecemeal on a
           | wireless charger when I remember.
           | 
           | I love my mechanical watches because a few twists on the
           | crown gets it moving and the automatic movement keeps it
           | wound the rest of the day.
        
         | ljm wrote:
         | I was the same and eventually went back to the Apple Watch
         | because the alternatives I tried were nice as watches but came
         | up short in the 'smart' department.
         | 
         | I'm not as bothered by the charging since it gets enough of a
         | boost while I'm in the shower.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Do you not take it off at night?
         | 
         | I've never had a problem since I always take my watch off, so
         | putting it on a side table or charging it on a side table is a
         | non-issue.
         | 
         | But I think some people wear it for sleep info? And I've always
         | been baffled at how/when they charge it.
        
           | dotnet00 wrote:
           | Pretty much the only data I care about from my watch (that
           | only it can gather) is my sleep, so I just stick it on the
           | charger in the day, eg when having a meal, when showering, or
           | an hour before bed, when I also don't have to worry about
           | urgent notifications.
        
           | Krasnol wrote:
           | Sleep tracking is just after fitness tracking the most
           | important thing for me.
           | 
           | I have a Garmin and I usually charge it once a week.
        
           | mman0114 wrote:
           | I just charge mine while I shower, 20-30 min get's me back to
           | 100%.
        
           | powersnail wrote:
           | Niche situation: I charge it when I practice the violin,
           | which takes about an hour daily, and that's more than enough
           | to charge to 100%. To be honest, I'd need to take off the
           | watch during practice anyway, even if the battery lasts a
           | month.
           | 
           | A friend of mine has a charger in his car, and charges his
           | watch during commute.
        
       | mglz wrote:
       | Are there any privacy friendly smartwatches around?
        
         | WXLCKNO wrote:
         | When the market isn't even profitable enough for regular smart
         | watches, I feel like the privacy niche won't have many people
         | competing for it.
         | 
         | Curious though if there are any
        
       | codeulike wrote:
       | I have a fossil hybrid with e-ink screen. So good, only have to
       | charge it once every two weeks
        
       | mechhacker wrote:
       | I really like my Garmin Fenix. Got someone else a Garmin Instinct
       | as a gift.
       | 
       | Previously, I got a Samsung and it was a buggy piece of junk. The
       | Garmin has been extremely reliable, getting regularly doused
       | underwater in saltwater when crashing while windsurfing, monitors
       | heart rate, and can be hooked up to a heart rate monitor. And I
       | charge it maybe once a week.
       | 
       | I looked into Apple Watches and I think Fossil too but they
       | didn't seem to fit the bill. Apple has terrible watch battery
       | life. I was able to put my Garmin in low power mode and only use
       | the GPS when recording a few windsurf sessions, and it lasted 2
       | weeks like that without charging while in Europe.
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | Garmins are good. Great battery life. I've bought other
         | smartwatches, and this one is the best. Yes, there are UI
         | improvements that they could make, but they do what they need
         | to do and battery life...
        
         | kilroy123 wrote:
         | I feel the same. I love only charging once a week for like an
         | hour.
         | 
         | I do wish it was better at sleep tracking...
        
         | WXLCKNO wrote:
         | Just wanna chime in and say my Samsung galaxy watch 5 pro does
         | feel like a piece of junk in many regards, but specifically for
         | heart rate tracking.
         | 
         | Whether I set it to measure continuously or ever 10 minutes, it
         | never captures the real highs of the day.
         | 
         | I've been cycling a ton since I got swift and my first "real"
         | bike last autumn and had been pretty sedentary for months
         | before.
         | 
         | You'd expect the long term min max heart rate graph to increase
         | but it's pretty much the same. The rare times it picks up on my
         | elevated heart rate as I bike, it warns me that my "at rest"
         | heart rate is high..
         | 
         | I've tried adjusting tightness, even reducing arm hair with a
         | clipper as people were saying it can interfere. Nothing
         | changed.
         | 
         | It was half off when I bought my phone so I grabbed it but it
         | still feels overpriced. For sleep tracking I feel like it's
         | been relatively decent and otherwise obviously I get
         | notifications and stuff.
         | 
         | But the UI often feels laggy, simple things like entering my
         | pin lags.
         | 
         | Ever since I switched from an iPad pro to the galaxy tab s9
         | ultra, I do appreciate how well things work when you own
         | everything in the same ecosystem but the watch is the low
         | point.
        
           | hooloovoo_zoo wrote:
           | Apple watch sucks for hr monitoring too FWIW.
        
         | GaryNumanVevo wrote:
         | For daily use, my Apple Watch Ultra is a much better companion.
         | But when it matters, like doing long distance cycling or
         | backpacking in the back country, I have a Garmin Epix and an
         | InReach that I trust with my life
        
         | latchkey wrote:
         | Looks like they have solar charging model too... I wonder if
         | that is a gimmick or actually works well?
        
           | mechhacker wrote:
           | The one I got as a gift is a solar Instinct. I'll have to ask
           | her what she thinks of it. I looked at the log of solar
           | activity and it does keep track of solar intensity through
           | the day. I just am not sure how much it impacts charging.
        
         | notdang wrote:
         | I also own a Garmin Enduro, but I charge it once per month and
         | I do like 5-9 hours of tracked activities per week.
        
         | alas44 wrote:
         | Happy owner for 4 years of a Garmin Fenix 5.
         | 
         | I wear it everyday and it has happily survived many water
         | sports including a lot of surfing sessions. Practical, no
         | bullshit (I don't want most of "smart" watch features, I have
         | my phone for that), long battery life (I can record several day
         | hike or full ski days without needing a recharge) and quite
         | resistant (I took the Sapphire + Titanium version).
         | 
         | Only thing that could make me take a new Garmin model would be
         | glucose tracking.
        
       | wanderingmind wrote:
       | As a tangent, I'm looking for a FOSS watch. Last time I checked
       | bangle.js met all my requirements but some feedback was the its
       | not yet reliable. Has this improved? Also any other alternative
       | that has GPS and pedometer?
        
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