[HN Gopher] Apple Shares List of Alternate Browsers That Will Be...
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       Apple Shares List of Alternate Browsers That Will Be Available to
       EU Users
        
       Author : alwillis
       Score  : 30 points
       Date   : 2024-01-26 18:46 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.macstories.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.macstories.net)
        
       | msie wrote:
       | Ugh, envious I am.
        
         | Osyris wrote:
         | I don't understand why. I thought users will just see a list of
         | options upfront instead of having to install them and select
         | one later.
         | 
         | This seems like more of an awareness thing than an actual
         | change in functionality.
        
           | filoleg wrote:
           | They probably just saw the title of the article and assumed
           | that it was talking about allowing alternate browser engines
           | on iOS.
           | 
           | Can't blame them, the title is rather misleading. I
           | originally thought the same thing until I read the actual
           | article.
        
             | ijhuygft776 wrote:
             | > They probably just saw the title of the article and
             | assumed that it was talking about allowing alternate
             | browser engines on iOS.
             | 
             | there was an article posted yesterday that claimed that
             | they would be forced to do just that.
        
             | olliej wrote:
             | The article in this context of additional browser engines
             | being allowed.
             | 
             | I do however recognize web developers looking forward to
             | just saying "you must use chrome", just as they spent
             | decades saying you have to use IE.
        
       | tdub311 wrote:
       | > contain the 12 most popular browsers from its App Store
       | 
       | So it will just be giving them a choice between the existing
       | browsers (that use webkit) in the store?
       | 
       | Will new browser engines eventually make it to iOS for EU users?
        
         | filoleg wrote:
         | That's how I interpreted as well, with zero new info or plans
         | regarding alternate browser engines on iOS.
        
           | asp_hornet wrote:
           | You mean 0 new plans or info outside the new plans and info
           | laid out on Apple's development website:
           | 
           | https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-
           | eu/#...
           | 
           | https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-
           | engi...
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | > Will new browser engines eventually make it to iOS for EU
         | users?
         | 
         | Yes, but Apple _just_ announced yesterday the criteria and
         | plans for that. I doubt any browser makers (except maybe
         | Chrome?) have their browser ready to go and it uses new APIs so
         | they would still have some work to do.
        
           | burnte wrote:
           | I'd be surprised if Mozilla doesn't have a Firefox build
           | ready.
        
       | filoleg wrote:
       | Upon reading the article, did I get it correctly that this is
       | talking solely about the default browser choice? I.e., if I
       | understood it right, it still won't allow non-webkit browsers
       | with their own browser engines.
       | 
       | Here is the relevant quote from the article:
       | 
       | > EU users will see a choice of browsers when they first launch
       | Safari that can be set as the systemwide default browser. For
       | each country, that list will contain the 12 most popular
       | _browsers from its App Store storefront_ displayed to the user in
       | a random order.
       | 
       | Again, assuming my interpretation is correct, the US users aren't
       | losing out on much, since they are able to install those same
       | browsers from the App Store. They would just have one less menu
       | to click through when setting up a new phone (because that
       | "choose your default browser" dialog would be skipped).
       | 
       | Note: the ability to set the default web browser app on iOS has
       | been present since iOS14 iirc.
        
         | olliej wrote:
         | I can't speak for this article, but they've got a page
         | dedicated to the rules for non-system webkit browser engines
        
         | joshstrange wrote:
         | > If I understood it right, it still won't allow non-webkit
         | browsers with their own browser engines.
         | 
         | No, Apple is going to allow 3rd party browser engines but
         | initially it will be the same apps everyone has access to.
         | Browser makers that want to use their own engine have to apply
         | and be granted permission.
        
           | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
           | > Browser makers that want to use their own engine have to
           | apply and be granted permission.
           | 
           | Apple and their approvals. Did the EU (or the Epic v Apple
           | judge) say anything about approvals or that they _shall_
           | allow these behaviors. Don 't approvals imply denials which
           | would violate the law?
        
           | filoleg wrote:
           | I was talking about this article specifically, which has zero
           | mentions of third party browser engines.
           | 
           | Sure, Apple might have plans to allow that, and there are
           | probably articles mentioning it. That's not what this article
           | is about at all tho.
        
             | joshstrange wrote:
             | > I was talking about this article specifically, which has
             | zero mentions of third party browser engines.
             | 
             | I mean this article itself doesn't talk about non-webkit
             | browsers but just yesterday Apple said they were allowing
             | them in the same post they talked about how they were going
             | to presenting this screen. These things go almost hand-in-
             | hand. Anyone who said something to the effect of "Yes, they
             | still won't allow non-webkit browsers" would be 100% wrong,
             | even if this article didn't cover it.
             | 
             | > Upon reading the article, did I get it correctly that
             | this is talking solely about the default browser choice?
             | 
             | The answer to this is "Yes" but your next bit:
             | 
             | > I.e., if I understood it right, it still won't allow non-
             | webkit browsers with their own browser engines.
             | 
             | This part is why I said "No, ..."
        
             | marcellus23 wrote:
             | What an odd response. Your entire comment was predicated on
             | the assumption that Apple would not be allowing 3rd party
             | browser engines, so I'm not sure why you're acting like
             | it's irrelevant to point out that that's wrong.
             | 
             | > Sure, Apple might have plans to allow that, and there are
             | probably articles mentioning it.
             | 
             | Not "might", they _do_ have plans to allow that, and there
             | _are_ articles mentioning it.
        
       | shampto3 wrote:
       | Sincere question - why does this matter? From what I understand,
       | all iOS browsers are basically just safari with a different skin
       | on top. I don't see much point to me using Firefox on iOS except
       | for the syncing. I'm probably missing something though.
        
         | blairbeckwith wrote:
         | They released new APIs and policy yesterday to allow non-Webkit
         | based browsers in the EU, among many other changes to comply
         | with the EU's Digital Millennium Act.
        
           | mikek wrote:
           | It is hard for me to imagine any browser makers switching to
           | a non-Webkit-based implementation if they can only do it in
           | the EU. They would need to support the Webkit-based code as
           | well for other regions, which seems like a lot of work.
           | 
           | Am I wrong?
        
             | tpm wrote:
             | With the third-party appstore also being available in the
             | EU, someone will surely roll a non-webkit browser, though I
             | have no idea how hard that is going to be as I don't
             | develop for iOS.
        
             | joshstrange wrote:
             | You are not wrong and that's probably what Apple is
             | counting on. Especially since if you rely on services from
             | outside the EU then those people can't really test their
             | website on the non-webkit browser engines. Of course if
             | more countries force Apple to allow 3rd party browser
             | engines the scales could flip.
        
             | spacebanana7 wrote:
             | A lot depends on expectations.
             | 
             | If Google expects these rules to be imitated globally over
             | the next 5-10 years it might make sense to invest in a non-
             | WebKit based implementation.
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | Because Google pays Apple $20B a year to be the default search
         | engine of the default browser. It's a lot of money.
         | 
         | Also new EU roles force Apple to have other browser engines.
        
           | alphabettsy wrote:
           | And when lots of people choose Chrome and Google is the
           | default is that a win?
           | 
           | I'd argue a massive step forward and back. People should be
           | able to choose. I want to choose a different search engine
           | than Google or the others, and I want Firefox too here in the
           | US. Chrome as the dominant browser comes with its own issues.
        
             | miohtama wrote:
             | You can have Firefox as the browser and then the bribe
             | would go to Mozilla. But in this case, Apple and Google
             | would not let anyone to choose really.
        
       | rasz wrote:
       | Vivaldi got pretty screwed, excluded from all wealthy European
       | nations. How is this even legal in EU, its supposed to be a
       | common market with equal access.
        
       | smartbit wrote:
       | iCabMobile is missing. What a pity, such a nice browser.
       | 
       | Notice that the Onion Browser is listed in all 27 member states
       | as among the 12 most popular browsers.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-26 23:02 UTC)