[HN Gopher] Apple Shares List of Alternate Browsers That Will Be...
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Apple Shares List of Alternate Browsers That Will Be Available to
EU Users
Author : alwillis
Score : 30 points
Date : 2024-01-26 18:46 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.macstories.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.macstories.net)
| msie wrote:
| Ugh, envious I am.
| Osyris wrote:
| I don't understand why. I thought users will just see a list of
| options upfront instead of having to install them and select
| one later.
|
| This seems like more of an awareness thing than an actual
| change in functionality.
| filoleg wrote:
| They probably just saw the title of the article and assumed
| that it was talking about allowing alternate browser engines
| on iOS.
|
| Can't blame them, the title is rather misleading. I
| originally thought the same thing until I read the actual
| article.
| ijhuygft776 wrote:
| > They probably just saw the title of the article and
| assumed that it was talking about allowing alternate
| browser engines on iOS.
|
| there was an article posted yesterday that claimed that
| they would be forced to do just that.
| olliej wrote:
| The article in this context of additional browser engines
| being allowed.
|
| I do however recognize web developers looking forward to
| just saying "you must use chrome", just as they spent
| decades saying you have to use IE.
| tdub311 wrote:
| > contain the 12 most popular browsers from its App Store
|
| So it will just be giving them a choice between the existing
| browsers (that use webkit) in the store?
|
| Will new browser engines eventually make it to iOS for EU users?
| filoleg wrote:
| That's how I interpreted as well, with zero new info or plans
| regarding alternate browser engines on iOS.
| asp_hornet wrote:
| You mean 0 new plans or info outside the new plans and info
| laid out on Apple's development website:
|
| https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-
| eu/#...
|
| https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-
| engi...
| joshstrange wrote:
| > Will new browser engines eventually make it to iOS for EU
| users?
|
| Yes, but Apple _just_ announced yesterday the criteria and
| plans for that. I doubt any browser makers (except maybe
| Chrome?) have their browser ready to go and it uses new APIs so
| they would still have some work to do.
| burnte wrote:
| I'd be surprised if Mozilla doesn't have a Firefox build
| ready.
| filoleg wrote:
| Upon reading the article, did I get it correctly that this is
| talking solely about the default browser choice? I.e., if I
| understood it right, it still won't allow non-webkit browsers
| with their own browser engines.
|
| Here is the relevant quote from the article:
|
| > EU users will see a choice of browsers when they first launch
| Safari that can be set as the systemwide default browser. For
| each country, that list will contain the 12 most popular
| _browsers from its App Store storefront_ displayed to the user in
| a random order.
|
| Again, assuming my interpretation is correct, the US users aren't
| losing out on much, since they are able to install those same
| browsers from the App Store. They would just have one less menu
| to click through when setting up a new phone (because that
| "choose your default browser" dialog would be skipped).
|
| Note: the ability to set the default web browser app on iOS has
| been present since iOS14 iirc.
| olliej wrote:
| I can't speak for this article, but they've got a page
| dedicated to the rules for non-system webkit browser engines
| joshstrange wrote:
| > If I understood it right, it still won't allow non-webkit
| browsers with their own browser engines.
|
| No, Apple is going to allow 3rd party browser engines but
| initially it will be the same apps everyone has access to.
| Browser makers that want to use their own engine have to apply
| and be granted permission.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| > Browser makers that want to use their own engine have to
| apply and be granted permission.
|
| Apple and their approvals. Did the EU (or the Epic v Apple
| judge) say anything about approvals or that they _shall_
| allow these behaviors. Don 't approvals imply denials which
| would violate the law?
| filoleg wrote:
| I was talking about this article specifically, which has zero
| mentions of third party browser engines.
|
| Sure, Apple might have plans to allow that, and there are
| probably articles mentioning it. That's not what this article
| is about at all tho.
| joshstrange wrote:
| > I was talking about this article specifically, which has
| zero mentions of third party browser engines.
|
| I mean this article itself doesn't talk about non-webkit
| browsers but just yesterday Apple said they were allowing
| them in the same post they talked about how they were going
| to presenting this screen. These things go almost hand-in-
| hand. Anyone who said something to the effect of "Yes, they
| still won't allow non-webkit browsers" would be 100% wrong,
| even if this article didn't cover it.
|
| > Upon reading the article, did I get it correctly that
| this is talking solely about the default browser choice?
|
| The answer to this is "Yes" but your next bit:
|
| > I.e., if I understood it right, it still won't allow non-
| webkit browsers with their own browser engines.
|
| This part is why I said "No, ..."
| marcellus23 wrote:
| What an odd response. Your entire comment was predicated on
| the assumption that Apple would not be allowing 3rd party
| browser engines, so I'm not sure why you're acting like
| it's irrelevant to point out that that's wrong.
|
| > Sure, Apple might have plans to allow that, and there are
| probably articles mentioning it.
|
| Not "might", they _do_ have plans to allow that, and there
| _are_ articles mentioning it.
| shampto3 wrote:
| Sincere question - why does this matter? From what I understand,
| all iOS browsers are basically just safari with a different skin
| on top. I don't see much point to me using Firefox on iOS except
| for the syncing. I'm probably missing something though.
| blairbeckwith wrote:
| They released new APIs and policy yesterday to allow non-Webkit
| based browsers in the EU, among many other changes to comply
| with the EU's Digital Millennium Act.
| mikek wrote:
| It is hard for me to imagine any browser makers switching to
| a non-Webkit-based implementation if they can only do it in
| the EU. They would need to support the Webkit-based code as
| well for other regions, which seems like a lot of work.
|
| Am I wrong?
| tpm wrote:
| With the third-party appstore also being available in the
| EU, someone will surely roll a non-webkit browser, though I
| have no idea how hard that is going to be as I don't
| develop for iOS.
| joshstrange wrote:
| You are not wrong and that's probably what Apple is
| counting on. Especially since if you rely on services from
| outside the EU then those people can't really test their
| website on the non-webkit browser engines. Of course if
| more countries force Apple to allow 3rd party browser
| engines the scales could flip.
| spacebanana7 wrote:
| A lot depends on expectations.
|
| If Google expects these rules to be imitated globally over
| the next 5-10 years it might make sense to invest in a non-
| WebKit based implementation.
| miohtama wrote:
| Because Google pays Apple $20B a year to be the default search
| engine of the default browser. It's a lot of money.
|
| Also new EU roles force Apple to have other browser engines.
| alphabettsy wrote:
| And when lots of people choose Chrome and Google is the
| default is that a win?
|
| I'd argue a massive step forward and back. People should be
| able to choose. I want to choose a different search engine
| than Google or the others, and I want Firefox too here in the
| US. Chrome as the dominant browser comes with its own issues.
| miohtama wrote:
| You can have Firefox as the browser and then the bribe
| would go to Mozilla. But in this case, Apple and Google
| would not let anyone to choose really.
| rasz wrote:
| Vivaldi got pretty screwed, excluded from all wealthy European
| nations. How is this even legal in EU, its supposed to be a
| common market with equal access.
| smartbit wrote:
| iCabMobile is missing. What a pity, such a nice browser.
|
| Notice that the Onion Browser is listed in all 27 member states
| as among the 12 most popular browsers.
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