[HN Gopher] ArVid: Russians squeezed 4 hard drives into one VHS ...
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       ArVid: Russians squeezed 4 hard drives into one VHS tape in the 90s
        
       Author : rpastuszak
       Score  : 230 points
       Date   : 2024-01-26 10:10 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jacobfilipp.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jacobfilipp.com)
        
       | rightbyte wrote:
       | Interesting. I would have really liked having one of those.
       | Strange that it did not spread?
       | 
       | I wonder what the practical reliability was. For comparison
       | breathing in the same room as my first CD-burner made it fail.
       | 
       | "your 500MB hard drive is overflowing with software, games, and
       | documents."
       | 
       | Mh ye no. Zero people filled up their HDs with documents.
        
         | orbital-decay wrote:
         | _> Strange that it did not spread?_
         | 
         | I tried this thing as a curiosity many years later. It sounded
         | nice in theory, but was pretty slow and unreliable compared to
         | the specialized streamers. It required a fairly janky driver,
         | and depended on the quality of the VHS recorder and the tape.
         | Seeking was also a problem. Besides, HDDs out-sized VHS pretty
         | quickly.
        
         | ithkuil wrote:
         | When I was a kid I helped setting up the computers for my
         | father's small business. The disks did fill up because of
         | documents. I think he counts as people too
         | 
         | You know, it really depends what you use a computer for.
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | With a 500 Mb HD? How is that even possible (at the time)?
           | 
           | But ye, of course I am exaggerating. Surely there were maybe
           | a handful of persons.
        
             | jfil wrote:
             | I took some artistic liberties in the introduction :-) In
             | practice, it seems that the ideal customers for this system
             | were Sysops/BBS operators, small businesses that used their
             | 1 computer to the max, and people who had lots of logs
             | (possibly astronomers or academics running experiments).
             | This also explains why it never hit mass-production: very
             | few people needed 2GB of storage (a single tape). Let alone
             | needing multiple tapes.
        
               | rightbyte wrote:
               | I just needed something to nitpick nice write up :)
        
             | ithkuil wrote:
             | I don't remember the exact sizes of the harddisk(s) but it
             | was late 90s early 2000s and the small business I was
             | talking about was a small publisher, so many of the
             | documents were large DTP files, postscript files ...
        
         | Arech wrote:
         | I've just covered a few points in
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39142648
         | 
         | There were some inherent problems associated, but nonetheless,
         | it was quite known back then, at least in ru.
        
       | sunpazed wrote:
       | This technology has been around for a while on a number of
       | different platforms. Wizzard VHS on the C64 predates this from
       | about 1987-88
       | 
       | https://www.lemon64.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61209
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | An image of an ad for Wizzard:
         | http://web.tiscali.it/c64commodore/tt.htm
         | 
         | There were also similar systems for the Amiga, I think one was
         | called VBS.
        
       | egorfine wrote:
       | This brings back memories! Getting ArVid was my childhood dream
       | at the time.
        
       | kozak wrote:
       | Fun fact: nowadays music is still distributed mostly in the 44.1
       | kHz sample rate, and this odd rate derives from how much it was
       | comfortable to store on a PAL/NTSC video tape using devices
       | similar to Technics SV-P100 (when video tapes were the only
       | viable way to store full-quality digital audio). So this number
       | is ultimately derived from line count and frame (field) rate of
       | analog TV standards.
        
         | fathyb wrote:
         | Also see the Nyquist frequency:
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist_frequency
         | 
         | 44.1kHz lets you store all frequencies from 0 to 22.05kHz,
         | which ought to be more than enough for most humans.
        
           | Synaesthesia wrote:
           | Almost nobody hears beyond 16kHz, from testing I've done, and
           | I don't think the musical content above that freq is really
           | useful.
        
             | AlecSchueler wrote:
             | Not listening to much Sachiko M?
        
             | bryanlarsen wrote:
             | Correct, but a filter that's flat to 16kHz with an abrupt
             | cut-off above 16kHz would introduce a lot of noise and
             | artifacts, especially with 80's tech.
             | 
             | Filters with a gradual roll-off are much smoother, cleaner
             | and cheaper. 44 kHz allows a filter with only 20dB roll off
             | starting at ~16kHz to be used instead.
             | 
             | Filters are necessary because if you digitize something at
             | 44kHz, any noise above 22kHz becomes noise at a frequency <
             | 22kHz, aka audible.
        
             | hasmanean wrote:
             | Yeah nobody hears 16khz sine waves. But those high
             | frequencies also make low frequency transients (eg square
             | edges)sharper, and reduce ringing.
        
               | HPsquared wrote:
               | But if someone can't hear a high enough sine wave,
               | doesn't that mean the same thing as they can't perceive
               | the sharpness of transients with frequency components
               | above their hearing limit? Surely if you can't hear a
               | frequency when presented as a high-intensity constant
               | sine wave, you're not going to hear it when mixed in with
               | all the other frequencies for a short moment in the form
               | of a step or impulse. Those hairs in the inner ear aren't
               | going to activate, in other words (or their signal won't
               | get through).
        
               | deepburner wrote:
               | I am not an expert on this but my suspicion is that human
               | ear is not a linear time invariant system and thus it
               | does not make sense to place a hard cutoff at some
               | frequency over which you can not hear. The response might
               | change wrt to the spectral content of the overall sound.
        
               | Washuu wrote:
               | I can hear 16khz sine waves when played on their own.
               | -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | That's nice, try to conserve it and be careful with your
               | ears. Most adults have already lost enough of their
               | hearing that they can't even hear if an old style CRT
               | based TV is on (which is in the EU 15625 Hz). By the ripe
               | old age of 50 you're lucky to get 10 KHz and when you are
               | at 70 it will be much less than that still. Babies and
               | dogs can hear ridiculously good. The highest note on a
               | piano is still below 5 KHz.
               | 
               | Handy resource:
               | 
               | https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
               | 
               | Note that higher frequencies are very directional and you
               | may have to move your head around a bit to catch the
               | tone, this works best by finding something you _just_ can
               | 't hear and then to move your head around to see if you
               | really can't hear it or if you only can't hear it from
               | that particular direction.
        
               | fallous wrote:
               | I'm 53 and I can still hear the NTSC 15.734KHz whine of a
               | CRT, although it's not nearly as obvious as it was in my
               | 20s. I also suspect there are some "dead" spots in my
               | hearing in the 13Khz-15Khz range but it picks back up
               | from there for a bit.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | You're very lucky! In my early 40's I could still hear it
               | but now I really can't, the cutoff is below 10 KHz
               | already. But tinnitus doesn't help, it tends to reduce
               | your hearing sensitivity overall.
        
               | wazoox wrote:
               | I've got a strong tinnitus, but I still hear up to about
               | 14Khz (I'm 53). In fact the tinnitus is all those
               | frequencies up to 21Khz I used to hear and don't anymore,
               | ringing in full in my ears...
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Tinnitus is a collection of different symptoms, you can
               | have various forms of it, for instance where you hear a
               | continuous ringing in the background, where certain
               | frequencies get dampened or amplified and so on. It's
               | quite an interesting phenomenon. 14Khz at 53 is very
               | nice!
        
               | sudosysgen wrote:
               | I can pretty distinctly hear 18kHz sine waves and so can
               | many of my friends, I don't think it's that rare.
               | 
               | If you actually weren't able to hear past 16kHz you
               | wouldn't be able to hear the ringing caused by a good
               | filter above 16kHz, and you wouldn't be able to tell a
               | difference in the transients either.
        
               | treflop wrote:
               | Defffffffinitely did not just hurt my ears playing really
               | loud 16,220 Hz sine waves to prove someone on the
               | Internet wrong.
        
               | HeWhoLurksLate wrote:
               | I got up to 21kHz and then either I stopped being able to
               | hear things or my speakers crapped out, not sure. On an
               | unrelated note, those frequencies are _annoying_
        
               | aidenn0 wrote:
               | Fun fact: most "maximum frequency humans can hear"
               | numbers are not actually "maximum frequency humans can
               | hear" but rather where the threshold of hearing (minimum
               | volume level you can hear) crosses the threshold of pain
               | (minimum volume level that is painful).
        
               | ta1243 wrote:
               | When I started my career I could hear 15,625hz (the line
               | rate of the CRTs in a PAL environment). I can't now, and
               | not just because those CRTs no longer exist.
               | 
               | Alas I can still hear 1khz.
        
             | RajT88 wrote:
             | Seems to be true. When I was younger (in my 20's) I used to
             | be able to hear CRT whines which I guess is in the 15khz
             | range.
             | 
             | Less so now, which is too bad. I recall there being
             | specific TV's which I found the whine really soothing while
             | watching stuff. Computer monitors I never heard the whine
             | which is up around 31khz according to some guys on Reddit.
        
             | ummonk wrote:
             | Have you done any testing with teens or children? I could
             | hear all the way to 23 kHz in my early 20s. Now at 32 I
             | only hear up to 16 kHz (well I can hear a slight tone at 17
             | kHz but it's very slight).
        
             | mintplant wrote:
             | That's not true for me, I can hear higher frequencies just
             | fine. It can cause problems sometimes! Besides the usual
             | annoyances like transformers in old CRTs, there's a video
             | game whose soundtrack has these horrible piercing tones
             | left in, and I've only found a few other people complaining
             | about it online. Most--including the composer, I assume--
             | can't hear them, so are unbothered.
        
               | a_gnostic wrote:
               | I can hear that. Helps noticing neon lights go bad
        
           | kozak wrote:
           | Same for 40 kHz or 48 kHz or anything above, but there is
           | (was) a specific reason why 44.1 got chosen.
        
         | FirmwareBurner wrote:
         | _> So this number is ultimately derived from line count and
         | frame (field) rate of analog TV standards._
         | 
         | Which itself is derived form the mains frequency of 50 or 60 Hz
         | depending whether you're from the metric or the eagles/freedom
         | land.
         | 
         | So the digital sample rate is related to how fast the power
         | pant spins it's generator turbine.
        
           | datpiff wrote:
           | > So the digital sample rate is related to how fast the power
           | pant spins it's generator turbine.
           | 
           | Also based on how incandescent bulbs will appear to visibly
           | flicker at lower frequencies.
        
           | cesarb wrote:
           | > mains frequency of 50 or 60 Hz depending whether you're
           | from the metric or eagles/freedom land.
           | 
           | Sorry for nitpicking, but the huge country I live in uses
           | metric but has 60 Hz for the mains frequency (and our analog
           | TV standard is PAL-M).
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | Canada or Australia?
        
               | foldor wrote:
               | PAL-M is Brazil as far as I know. Canada is still NTSC.
        
             | rusk wrote:
             | Very interesting. From Wikipedia:
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL-M
             | 
             | > [PAL M] is unique among analogue TV systems in that it
             | combines the 525-line 30 frames-per-second System M with
             | the PAL colour encoding system (using very nearly the NTSC
             | colour subcarrier frequency), unlike all other countries
             | which pair PAL with 625-line systems and NTSC with 525-line
             | systems.
             | 
             | So presumably PAL M runs at 60 Hz just like NTSC, which
             | again comes back to the domestic AC freq
        
           | Washuu wrote:
           | So half of Japan is FREEDOM. The grid here is 60hz in the
           | west and 50hz in the east.
        
         | svantana wrote:
         | Indeed, 44100 may seem like a random-ish number until you look
         | at its prime factors, 44100 = (2 _3_ 5*7)^2. In other words, it
         | has a lot of divisors - 81 of them in total, whereas 48000 only
         | has 64.
        
           | flancian wrote:
           | For others who were also stumped here for a bit: it seems
           | your text got mangled, likely by triggering markup rules.
           | ITYM 44100 = (2 x 3 x 5 x 7)^2
        
           | tenebrisalietum wrote:
           | Is it 48000 or 49152? (49152 being 2^15 + 2^14, working well
           | with a lot of binary stuff, but def not divisible by 5 or 10)
        
             | nwallin wrote:
             | DVD audio frequency is 48,000Hz. When people talk about
             | 48kHz audio they're virtually always talking about
             | 48,000Hz.
        
       | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
       | Another system was D-VHS [0], a digital video version of VHS with
       | a max capacity of 50GB. For a time it was the highest quality
       | digital video solution for consumers, until BluRay and HD-DVD
       | came along.
       | 
       | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-VHS
        
         | retrac wrote:
         | Don't forget D-1 [1], which was a hybrid monstrosity.
         | 
         | In the 1980s, it wasn't really yet feasible to handle digital
         | video in a meaningful way. No true colour framebuffers at
         | 720x480 pixels and no way to move that many bits in and out of
         | a framebuffer fast enough, either. But digital electronics
         | could run > 50 MHz even back then, and there were fast analog-
         | to-digital and digital-to-analog converters. So why not
         | digitize the entire analog video signal, directly? D-1 does
         | just that, sampling the the entire video signal at like 14 MHz,
         | writing hundreds of megabits of data per second to tape
         | uncompressed.
         | 
         | In other words, a perfect digital copy of the analog video
         | waveform. Same signal the camera generated. D-1 was rather
         | widely used in production in the late 80s and 90s, and for
         | broadcast playback. Surviving material on D-1 is quite rare
         | today - it was a very expensive tech and tapes got reused.
         | Here's an example though - Depeche Mode performing Personal
         | Jesus on German TV in 1989 -
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELRR7rPDvh0
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-1_(Sony)
        
           | actionfromafar wrote:
           | I love that format. I wish it would have survived and been
           | extended instead of all the compressed pixel heaps we got for
           | two decades. :)
           | 
           | Looking at that video reminded of what it looked like to
           | watch analog live broadcast from a high quality camera, or
           | high quality film (Hollywood) on an analog TV set through
           | broadcast. It wasn't bad.
           | 
           | Todays cable MPEG-2 SD channels actually have worse quality.
           | (Some cable and satellite _HD_ channels have worse quality
           | today even, when they crank the compression too hard!)
        
           | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
           | Hard to believe this is from 1989, looks really good.
        
       | jhoechtl wrote:
       | > That means that variations in colour and sound were not used
       | when recording data.
       | 
       | That sounds like a massive waste of space, no? Wouldn't at least
       | using RGB and within that only using three luminosity levels
       | essentially dramatically increased the capacity with little
       | increase in error rate which could have been addressed with a
       | level of redundancy?
        
         | dfox wrote:
         | VHS stores the chrominance information heavily subsampled (even
         | more than normal analog composite video) and the chroma signal
         | noticeably bleeds into the luminance signal as the chroma
         | carrier has lower frequency than in normal broadcast signal.
         | So, using the chroma signal is not really worth the
         | complication.
         | 
         | Doing something multilevel PAM purely in the luminance signal
         | is probably better approach, but one has to take into account
         | that the overall level of the video signal tends to get
         | "averaged-out" by various ALC circuits in the VCR.
         | 
         | Also the cards appears to be largely software driven (it is too
         | simple to do any real HW acceleration), so the main limitation
         | of the bitrate probably is the performance of CPUs at that
         | time.
        
           | orbital-decay wrote:
           | _> the cards appears to be largely software driven (it is too
           | simple to do any real HW acceleration)_
           | 
           | Both redundancy encoding and DMA were hardware-accelerated by
           | an onboard FPGA (although DMA had lots of motherboard
           | compatibility issues)
        
             | dfox wrote:
             | I meant the 1020 card with discrete TTL. Although there is
             | that EPROM, which is apparently used in the datapath
             | somehow (some kind of LUT for encoding/decoding?).
             | Interesting aspect of the card is that it seems to be
             | purely interrupt and DMA driven, as it has entire address
             | bus left unconnected. I suspect that there is some clever
             | abuse of i8237 DMA controller involved, which would explain
             | the compatibility issues.
        
               | nnevod wrote:
               | EPROM stored codes for controlling video recorder - the
               | card has IR receiver and blaster, you record t-e codes
               | from remote voa receiver, then the card controls the
               | recorder.
        
               | dfox wrote:
               | It is an EPROM (apparently 8x8KB 2764 in particular),
               | EPROMs are not really intended to be in system
               | (re-)programmed, so storing the IR codes in it does not
               | really make sense. Proximity of pair of ALS193 to that
               | EPROM makes me thing that it contains data for some kind
               | of fixed pattern (by rough approximation the 64kbits work
               | out quite neatly to the horizontal resolution of the
               | "Arvid 1020" text on the spacer pattern shown in the
               | article).
               | 
               | [Edit: alternatively it is possible that the EPROM
               | contains some kind of "microcode" that serves as
               | sequencer for rest of the circuitry, which is probably
               | more likely]
               | 
               | Another interesting things are the 4 wide DIPs at the
               | bottom edge of the card, these are clones of AM29705,
               | which is 16x4bit dual port SRAM, apparently this serves
               | as some kind of minimal buffer between whatever the rest
               | of the card is doing and the DMA activity. As there is no
               | IO except DMA I suspect that the card continually samples
               | input and produces output, probably with the IR input and
               | output being interleaved into the "video" data in some
               | way (as one of the 16 bits?).
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | Composite video encoding uses most space for the luma, i.e. the
         | black and white portion of the image. So, to answer the
         | question, it's a waste of space, but not a massive waste of
         | space.
         | 
         | Edit: what dfox said.
        
       | andyjohnson0 wrote:
       | Spoiler: the hard drives aren't squeezed into a physical VHS
       | cassette. Instead the tape is used to store the equivalent of
       | four hard drives worth of data.
       | 
       | As someone who owned VHS tapes and several 90s-era hard drives,
       | and remembers the sizes of each, the title had me confused for a
       | minute.
       | 
       | Basically like an Iomega Jazz drive.
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | Thanks for clarifying, though I've got to say, your mind is
         | interesting for considering that they might have _physically_
         | squeezed 4 hard drives into (or inside?) a VHS cassette.
        
           | tourmalinetaco wrote:
           | I did the same, the title made me think of some long-lost
           | TARDIS-esque technology exclusive to VHS tape shell that
           | allowed for smuggling.
           | 
           | Realistically it wasn't what was talked about, but it was a
           | fun idea while it lasted.
        
             | rob74 wrote:
             | Interesting idea, although the weight of the fake VHS
             | cassette would have given it away. Plus, hard drives from
             | that era with their cast aluminium frames were notoriously
             | hard to squeeze...
        
               | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
               | If you think that would be heavy, imagine what 120
               | Libraries of Congress would weigh! You would need a VHS
               | tape the length of 4 football fields.
        
           | andyjohnson0 wrote:
           | I was imagining four present-day laptop drives. But then I
           | remembered just how big HDs were back in ~1995...
        
           | nullhole wrote:
           | The microdrive[1] existed. You could fit a lot more than four
           | of those in a VHS cassette.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrive
        
         | gremlinunderway wrote:
         | Gotta say I'm surprised anyone interpreted the title literally
         | but reading it again I get it (it is conceivable to somehow
         | physically fit harddrives into a cassette).
        
           | genman wrote:
           | I too considered this possibility. Though I didn't assign
           | high probability to this interpretation.
        
         | NooneAtAll3 wrote:
         | I got confused by your comment because the only "size" I
         | associate with hard drives is in stored data...
        
       | eps wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20240126111703/https://jacobfili...
        
       | magic_hamster wrote:
       | This was a good read. Thank you for sharing.
        
       | jan_Sate wrote:
       | Impressive. People in old days are rather creative in getting the
       | most out of the existing technology.
        
       | bobdvb wrote:
       | The Quantel Paintbox graphics system which was what was
       | considered the gold standard for graphics in the 80s and 90s,
       | also had the option to backup it's data to video tape. Although
       | that would have been expected to be broadcast tape formats rather
       | than VHS.
        
       | stephen_g wrote:
       | An interesting forerunner to these, from the late '70s to early
       | '80s was the PCM audio adaptor for recording digital audio in the
       | same way - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCM_adaptor
       | 
       | This is an interesting all-in-one unit with the VHS deck built in
       | - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVDCxTtn4OQ - released just a
       | year or two before the CD came out.
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | I was an audio engineer at the time. Worth mentioning the ADAT
         | machines which were basically the dominant way of doing
         | multitrack audio in the late 90's. All on VHS tapes.
        
       | alchemist1e9 wrote:
       | Awesome story!
       | 
       | Plus it reminded me that I do need to finally start on my own LTO
       | project, still today nothing can beat tape if you have huge
       | amounts of data to backup and/or move.
        
         | gnramires wrote:
         | I'm interested in using Blu rays (maybe M discs, which are far
         | more expensive!) for personal backup, as I generally don't have
         | more than 100gb of really critical data (which excludes
         | everything I could just download on the internet), and they're
         | said to last a long time. Blu ray readers are widely available
         | too.
        
           | alchemist1e9 wrote:
           | I do use both Blurays and also some M discs with a burner for
           | critical data. I have two burners actually and make sure each
           | can read back the others and check on two hosts. Yes
           | paranoid.
           | 
           | It's basically between cloud like B2 backblaze and LTO tapes
           | for many 100s of TBs. Currently using backblaze B2 and I
           | think it's time to bite the bullet and get two LTO drives and
           | tapes, at least it will scale up to as big as one can imagine
           | and then have full control and access.
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | Storing digital data in video tape dates back to the 80s when
       | studios used to make digital mastering on what was available at
       | the moment: Umatic, Betamax and VHS. Many popular productions
       | from the 80s were in fact mastered on video tape recorders paired
       | to studio grade converters such as the Sony PCM-F1.
       | 
       | https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/sony/pcm-f1.htm
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | The PCM-1 came out in 1977.
        
       | dghughes wrote:
       | For my ATARI 600XLI I stored stuff on cassette tapes it was an
       | official add on you had to buy. I think the command was CLOAD to
       | load stuff from it. A lot of failed code from computer magazine
       | programs typed in by 14 year-old me on cassettes somewhere.
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | I made a utility for myself to backup Diskettes to audio
         | cassette tapes directly and at a pretty high speed but for the
         | Apple II+. It worked but it also suffered from lack of error
         | correcting / recovery so any errors would ruin the entire
         | backup... I could probably do a lot better if I rewrote it
         | today! :)
        
         | pronoiac wrote:
         | These might be useful tools, if you don't want to maintain an
         | Atari 410 but do have a tape player -
         | https://a8cas.sourceforge.net/
        
         | BizarroLand wrote:
         | I got to play with an ADAM computer that had games on cassette
         | disk. It was interesting loading up Dragon's lair and then
         | immediately dying over and over again.
        
       | Arech wrote:
       | Hehe, I had such a device long ago. It was ok-ish for making
       | infrequent backups, but too burdensome to use regularly, since
       | you had to bring in the videoplayer (it was a huge device,
       | zoomer! :D), untangle and attach the wires. And then the
       | reading/writing speed was slow, so it took a few hours to fully
       | use a single videotape. Also a simple video tape wasn't very
       | reliable medium, and, though ArVid had some inbuilt redundancy,
       | still it was possible you won't read the data after a few
       | months/years, so you had to backup the backup to be extra sure...
       | But it was a solution to a problem, nonetheless. Very cheap and
       | alternative-less for even twice or more money it cost. Real
       | salvation even back then, so I'm happy and thankful they made it.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | VHS tape used for backup purposes had the annoying habit to
         | stick and break when you needed it most: when your source had
         | failed.
        
       | faust93 wrote:
       | I was a lucky owner of the ArVid 1030 back in the 90s. Compared
       | to my PC's hdd size that time (WD 500MB) arvid was able to store
       | about 2GB of data and that was an insane amount! Good old days..
       | :)
        
         | jfil wrote:
         | I am dying to know: how did you learn about the ArVid? What was
         | the process of purchasing it?
         | 
         | I haven't been able to find any ads for it, and I figured "word
         | of mouth among Sysops" was the way it spread. It would be great
         | if you could share your story.
        
           | VitalKoshalew wrote:
           | I guess the answer would be "Fido"[1].
           | 
           | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet
        
       | chx wrote:
       | > using a custom file navigation program that resembled the
       | popular "Norton Commander" application.
       | 
       | I wonder whether it had to anything with Volkov Commander which
       | was a COM-sized much faster alternative to Norton Commander.
       | 
       | Fun memories: I uploaded it to SIMTEL in 1993 whose operator
       | promptly complained to the operators of the university mainframe
       | where I had an account for pirating Norton Commander and in turn
       | I was booted from that VAX. Being 18, I ... didn't react the best
       | however this incident started me on very interesting paths. One,
       | I have social engineered my way back to another account (it
       | didn't last long but still) and started using Unix and soon Linux
       | because of this... way more useful knowledge it turned out than
       | VAX/VMS.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | I spent all but a few seconds left on my account on the school
         | 'Prime' machine trying to figure out how to hack the time quota
         | system. Near the end I got pretty nervous both because nobody
         | else was even close to maxing out their quota which would
         | surely have led to some pointed questions and because if I
         | failed I might not have been able to turn in my assignments.
         | But once that problem was solved the ROI for the time spent on
         | it was paid back with interest ;)
        
           | esafak wrote:
           | Did you remember to tweak your grade?
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSRigsskFR4
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | Hehe, no I didn't need that and besides I left after the
             | first year to go earn a living anyway.
        
         | thriftwy wrote:
         | Norton Commander-inspired interfaces were all rage back then.
         | RAR for DOS had NC-like, single panel interface.
        
           | zczc wrote:
           | In this tradition, 7-Zip GUI still has a dual-panel mode
        
           | JNRowe wrote:
           | Given the number of upvotes and comments on a story about MC
           | a few days ago1, they're not _that_ dead now.
           | 
           | 1 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39075316
        
             | FpUser wrote:
             | I use it nearly every day
        
         | malkia wrote:
         | To this day I'm still using Far Manager (on Windows) and
         | midnight commander (mc) on Linux/OSX
        
           | qiller wrote:
           | I am still Far as my primary file manager and quick
           | viewer/editor when I'm on Windows, and I've tried far2l
           | (which is great) but for some reason when I'm on macOS my
           | brain just switches and I'm back in Finder.
        
             | malkia wrote:
             | oh I wasn't aware of far2l - I'll have to try it! Thanks!!!
        
           | chx wrote:
           | Oh I am using Double Commander myself.
        
           | FpUser wrote:
           | Total Commander on Windows, Double Commander on Linux desktop
           | and Midnight Commander on Linux text mode.
        
         | zczc wrote:
         | The program in the video uses Turbo Vision interface, so the
         | closest thing is DOS Navigator [1]. Also DOS Navigator has some
         | Arvid support [2], so it could be Dos Navigator itself.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS_Navigator [2]
         | https://github.com/maximmasiutin/Dos-Navigator/blob/master/A...
        
       | getpost wrote:
       | Storing data on a VHS tape was a thing in the early 1980s. I
       | worked on an AlphaMicro "minicomputer" with this feature.
       | 
       | https://manualzz.com/doc/o/9paan/amos-system-commands-refere...
        
         | jakderrida wrote:
         | On your set top box, you'll find a bunch of inactive ports on
         | the back. One of them (I don't remember which) is there from an
         | outdated law which was to bolster some digital VHS technology.
         | I think it's called like VHS-D. I learned this being a FiOs
         | technician and would look up any frequent question asked over
         | and over again at the end of installs.
        
           | pronoiac wrote:
           | From memory: it was a FireWire port, which could connect to
           | D-VHS - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-VHS
        
         | zblah wrote:
         | Both the Commodore 64 and Amiga had this.
         | 
         | https://members.optusnet.com.au/spacetaxi64/MAIN/VFL-Video-f...
        
           | Keyframe wrote:
           | exactly. VBS was quite popular on Amiga.
        
       | peter_d_sherman wrote:
       | >"The ArVid software _gave users a lot of information about the
       | number of errors on tape_.
       | 
       | This was unique at a time when backup vendors preferred to
       | pretend that errors didn't exist. And it was a source of pride
       | for the creators. This decision gave users the feedback they
       | needed to improve their use of the system..."
       | 
       | It would be great if in the future all Flash RAM/non-
       | volatile/persistent memory storage devices -- would give users
       | easy access to what their hardware knows about its own internal
       | errors...
       | 
       | For example, in a Flash RAM device, most notably a USB thumb
       | drive -- tell me everything you know about the blocks/regions of
       | memory that have went bad and had to be remapped, when a remap
       | occurred, and what new physical blocks/region was used to remap
       | the data.
       | 
       | Basically I as a user -- want to know anything and everything
       | about what the hardware knows about the state of the underlying
       | storage medium.
       | 
       | Companies that are transparent about this in the future -- will
       | succeed brilliantly!
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | Hard drive in the pre-IDE days used to come with defect tables
         | (a sticker on the unit) that told you the bad sectors. Of
         | course, this is when hard drives were several hundred dollars
         | in 80's money if I'm remembering right.
         | 
         | Flash drive manufacturers whose devices sell at your local
         | department store for under $15 probably don't want to give
         | people a way to check what's really going on and make a case to
         | return them.
         | 
         | I would love an open-source standard storage device platform,
         | though, with a standard firmware update process over USB or
         | whichever interconnect. Then open-source storage device
         | firmware could be developed which could have any other extra
         | functions you could dream of.
        
       | VitalKoshalew wrote:
       | > These BBSs were part of the FidoNet7 network, a Russian network
       | of BBSs that used software compatible with FidoNet but
       | independent of its political structure. ... In 1997, a
       | "newsgroup" was established at "fido7.su.hardw.support.arvid"
       | 
       | This is technically incorrect. The BBSes were part of the
       | "official" FidoNet [1] network, Zone 2. Fido7 was mostly post-
       | Soviet (and not just "Russian") project to allow migration from
       | PSTN to InterNet as a carrier. Also many "official" FidoNet nodes
       | had additional InterNet channels which could even prevail
       | traffic-wise over PSTN lines, one couldn't have a purely
       | InterNet-connected FidoNet node without any PSTN presence, as
       | that would violate FidoNet Policy (specifically, adherence to
       | Zone Mail Hour (ZMH) [1]). ZMH was considered a core requirement
       | for a FidoNet node (pretty much everything else was optional) and
       | there was no consensus on dropping this "tradition".
       | 
       | Fido7 project was created with a goal of resolving the issue of
       | ZMH by establishing an additional Zone 7 as an overlay to the
       | existing 6 Zones of FidoNet, that would allow for existence of
       | InterNet-only nodes without modifying Policy for the existing
       | Zones. The project was never accepted as part of the "official"
       | FidoNet structure, but for technological reasons it outlived the
       | "official" FidoNet.
       | 
       | The author is referring to Google mirror of
       | "fido7.su.hardw.support.arvid" "newsgroup". In reality, this was
       | a Fido7-provided _mirror_ of the original
       | "SU.HARDW.SUPPORT.ARVID" ("echomail conference-group" names were
       | traditionally capitalized) where "SU" stands for "Soviet Union".
       | In reality, it was a post-soviet conference-group hosted by
       | backbones of FidoNet Regions that belonged to post-soviet
       | countries. Such mirrors were created by Fido7 project in an
       | effort to promote FidoNet beyond "old school" PSTN-bound
       | community. These newsgroups (with double prefix, such as
       | "fido7.su.") did not belong to Fido7 itself but were forwarded
       | from the "official" FidoNet to Fido7 and then presented as UseNet
       | newsgroups and archived by Google which resulted in confusion
       | that led author to think this was Fido7 content.
       | 
       | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FidoNet
        
       | EvanAnderson wrote:
       | Did anybody else notice the Borland Turbo Vision text UI in the
       | first screenshot? Seeing it really brings back memories
        
       | wdfx wrote:
       | Reminds me back in the early 2000s I had a miniDV camcorder.
       | There was a linux package which allowed you to write archives to
       | the miniDV tapes over firewire, I think each small tape could
       | hold about 12-13Gb which was quite impressive. The only downside
       | is that it takes ~1hr to record and restore.
       | 
       | In the end I never stored any critical archives on that thing, as
       | I suspected (correctly) that a number of years later I'd have no
       | way to read them back.
        
         | wdfx wrote:
         | ha, here's the software I used over 20 years ago:
         | https://dvbackup.sourceforge.net/
        
         | pronoiac wrote:
         | dvbackup! https://dvbackup.sourceforge.net/
         | 
         | I didn't use this either, as I worried about wearing down the
         | camera heads, and DVD-R's were cheaper and more plentiful.
        
           | wdfx wrote:
           | Off the back of this I've just dug the very same camcorder
           | out of a box in the loft and indeed it now has a number of
           | electrical and mechanical issues. Looks like I left a blank
           | tape it it which is now shredded. The built in screen works
           | one time out of three power ups. I have no computer available
           | with any FireWire port.
        
             | rasz wrote:
             | DV camcorder vintage gear pretty universally suffers
             | leaking smd capacitors and melting belts.
        
       | dmix wrote:
       | > How long would data last on tape?
       | 
       | > The Canadian Conservation Institute says that VHS tapes have a
       | 10-30 year lifespan, on average.
       | 
       | https://www.canada.ca/en/conservation-institute/services/con...
       | 
       | That sucks, I just got in VHS for various reasons and bought a
       | 1987 copy of Ghostbusters. It still works despite being 36yrs
       | old. I'm curious what it means for tape to degrade and how to
       | detect it in films.
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | In my experience the magnetism weakens and the video just
         | becomes more and more staticy. But I think there's also
         | physical degradation of the tape.
        
           | vsviridov wrote:
           | There's magnetic cross-talk in effect between layers of tape
           | in the spool, so it is recommended to rewind archive tapes
           | every once in a while to shift the overlapping regions
           | slightly.
        
       | ijhuygft776 wrote:
       | The question is, was it still able to play a movie... otherwise,
       | what kind of spies are they? /s
        
       | 1letterunixname wrote:
       | More precisely, it was made with Borland TurboVision (TUI
       | framework) using a Borland IDE for Pascal or C++.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-26 23:01 UTC)