[HN Gopher] Restoration of an IBM 701C Butterfly-keyboard laptop
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Restoration of an IBM 701C Butterfly-keyboard laptop
Author : jtwaleson
Score : 96 points
Date : 2024-01-25 11:21 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (blog.jgc.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (blog.jgc.org)
| Clubber wrote:
| Thinkpads used to be the best laptops and the only ones I would
| buy. They've cheapened out in the last decade or two, like most
| things, unfortunately.
| NikolaNovak wrote:
| I keep buying used T480 / T580 machines (last generation with
| easily swappable external battery, and also still easy to
| change battery and drive etc), and will keep my T25 (it has the
| good keyboard!) for as long as I can.
| jtwaleson wrote:
| Oh wow, the T25, I'm jealous :)
|
| I used to own the 701C that JGC restored and was super happy
| to see what he did with it! Now that I've owned that legend
| my wish-list still contains: T25, W700ds, Thinkpad 15th
| anniversary edition and the TransNote.
| ssl-3 wrote:
| I'm more of a T530 fan. It's the last 15" Thinkpad that
| doesn't have a numeric keypad taking up space, and I've seen
| it reported that it is also the last one that IBM had a hand
| in designing.
|
| Some folks have successfully integrated the T25 keyboard into
| T480 machines, which is definitely in the realm of a clever
| hack.
| makerdiety wrote:
| Desktop computers are more modular than laptop computers are.
| It's _much_ easier to replace a desktop computer 's keyboard
| than it is to replace a laptop computer's keyboard. Power
| supply too. And monitor.
|
| Why are desktop computers first class citizens compared to
| laptops when the mobility of laptops is kinda better than the
| mobility of desktops?
| tenebrisalietum wrote:
| > Why are desktop computers first class citizens compared
| to laptops
|
| This was true in the 90's, but I'm not sure any more.
| Desktops are a gamer or high-performance workstation thing
| now. Those who don't fit that demographic and can't get by
| with iPads/their phones have laptops, which I would say is
| the standard now. The new business class "desktops" are
| usually laptop-style hardware in a small form factor case.
|
| Regarding modularity:
|
| - No one bothered to create a standard laptop motherboard
| form-factor like there was for desktops.
|
| - Laptops trend smaller over time. People are willing to
| sacrifice modularity for device size it seems.
|
| - Thermal management is more difficult on a laptop due to
| the enclosed space, so laptops historically have been
| slower than desktops for the same amount of money. Those
| who want performance will trend towards desktops, and are
| also the same demographic that would be interested in
| expanding the hardware for performance reasons as well.
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| > Laptops trend smaller over time. People are willing to
| sacrifice modularity for device size it seems.
|
| Well, I have a different take on that, with miniaturity
| peaking at VGN-TX3 (as still usable, ofc there were a lot
| of even smaller ones, like P-series) and since then it's
| gravitated to 13.3"+ range. Most people around me bought
| 15.6"+ models, which are strictly in luggable category
| for me.
|
| https://www.notebookcheck.net/Sony-Vaio-VGN-
| TX3XP.1759.0.htm...
| bluGill wrote:
| Modular is only possible when you can have some space that
| is empty. In a laptop if there is extra space you redesign
| everything to fill that space. Thus a modular laptop would
| be a bad thing: you could get either a smaller laptop, or
| something else you want in a laptop (like a bigger battery)
| if you would go non modular.
| falcrist wrote:
| IBM sold its PC division to Lenovo in 2005, so your timeframe
| correlates with the laptop division no longer being part of
| IBM.
|
| Not that Lenovo is a bad company persay, but IBM was
| historically a company that focused on corporate sales and
| Lenovo is a company that seems to target the consumer market.
| As far as I can see, individual consumers are _much_ more price
| sensitive than corporations. That would explain the steady
| decline in quality.
|
| I'm certainly not an expert, so there are probably other valid
| explanations. Unicomp bought IBM's keyboard manufacturing
| division (or at least the equipment used to build model M
| keyboards), and experienced a decline in quality simply due to
| (allegedly) not updating the old tooling until fairly recently.
| dijit wrote:
| What I find interesting is that the decline definitely exists
| but it's _slow_.
|
| I might have expected something like 2-3 years until
| Thinkpads would be essentially toned down consumer devices,
| but it's nearly 20 years later now and Thinkpads (while
| certainly not legandary any longer) are still _quite_
| serviceable business laptops.
| falcrist wrote:
| I'll have to take your word on recent Lenovo laptops. It's
| been well over a decade since I got my Yoga 11. The hinge
| on that laptop was quite good. The keyboard sucked though.
|
| Perhaps they retained enough of the original employees that
| workflow and procedures remained similar, which resulted in
| similar products for a long time.
|
| Certainly the tooling wouldn't have changed immediately.
| Throw84949 wrote:
| I had my fair share of IBM and Lenovo laptop repairs. They were
| OK, but far from best. Firmware was locked to certain
| (expensive) RAM modules and HDDs. Expensive motherboard
| replacement on first sign of troubles...
|
| Panasonic Toughbook and Toshiba were better.
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| ThinkPads had some nice things, like the keyboard, but
| durability was never one of them. Whenever I open a laptop I
| still do this weird hand dance in order to try to use the
| minimal amount of force required. An habit I acquired after a
| handful of broken hinges in the 90s...
| Croftengea wrote:
| I love the last photo. AOL, chef's kiss.
| shove wrote:
| I did telephone tech support for Thinkpads in the mid 90s. It was
| a bit of a rare treat to actually take a call for the 701c
| because they were generally pretty solid. "Hello and thank you
| for calling the IBM PC call center. My name is ___, may I get
| your name and telephone number please?" ... 10 hours a day, 4
| days per week.
| chx wrote:
| This was a comment trying to help with the sleep battery.
|
| It got downvoted therefore it is removed.
| threeio wrote:
| I loved that laptop/keyboard back when I was a lowly tech support
| guy. I can't tell you how many major hotel execs had it ;)
| mmcgaha wrote:
| The first time I saw that laptop was in the bar at a Hyatt. I
| am sure the lady thought I was a doofus but she was gracious
| enough to show it to me and let me open and close it a few
| times. That machine evoked the same feeling of quality that I
| only got from a few other devices; I put it in the same class
| as a hp15c, psp or iphone.
| rjmunro wrote:
| It would be good to include a video of it working, like this one:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChlD_ZfpPdw
| jgrahamc wrote:
| Yeah. You're right. I kind of ran out of steam preparing
| everything for that blog post.
| isaidthis wrote:
| Thoroughly enjoyed the read and your coverage of the process.
| A couple questions: How pleased were you with the final
| texture and finish of the paint after your process? Seems it
| would be tricky to emulate the original rubberized finish
| with spray paint. I'm considering a restoration of an old
| ThinkPad with similar issues. Any steps you would do
| different or recommendations you would make for someone who
| is considering a restoration?
| jgrahamc wrote:
| The thing I'd do differently with the paint is even more
| sanding. I've never tried something like this before and
| it's outside my usual skill set.
| isaidthis wrote:
| Same here, paint work is not my forte but I'm interested
| in learning more and improving my skill set in this area.
| I've found through various failed paint projects that
| surface prep is critical. I used to think that paint
| would 'fill in' minor surface issues like scratches but
| it seems to actually highlight them in some cases. Your
| paint job looks really nice though. Thanks for your
| insight and nice work on the restoration!
| dylan604 wrote:
| I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the meeting where this idea
| was proposed. Was the initial laughter severe? Was it muted?
| Was it not laughter but actual "hmm" while thinking about it
| being a good idea? Like how many follow up pitches did it take?
|
| I've been a part of meetings with pitches on how to solve
| something where I've been shot down and weeks spent on other
| ideas only for them to fail ultimately coming to my original
| suggestion to work. It is very satisfying. I'm guessing the
| person(s) that came up with this might have had a similar
| experience.
| eschneider wrote:
| That's just a lovely resto. :)
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| I've used and still own several early ThinkPads. The keyboards
| from this ThinkPad era are unmatched in overall tactile quality.
| jtwaleson wrote:
| Different tastes I guess. As the previous owner, I've tried the
| exact keyboard from the blogpost quite a bit, and have been
| using ThinkPads for the last 20 years or so. I really enjoy the
| chiclet keyboard on my T14s g2. Sure, some things were nicer on
| my T400 (7 rows, media buttons), but the really old ones from
| 1992 and 1995 that I've also owned were much less nice to type
| on.
| UncleSlacky wrote:
| Agreed - I keep a T23 as a distraction-free writing machine.
| intrasight wrote:
| Brings back a memory of my buying a used one of those for my
| father back in the late 90s. I think he used it as a backup
| computer of sorts.
| darren wrote:
| At one point I had a portable keyboard for my palm pilot that
| used similar folding tech. The keyboard when folded was very
| small - about the size of an iPhone in a large case.
|
| I'm surprised nobody has released a bluetooth version of this
| keyboard for the iPad, I know I would buy one.
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(page generated 2024-01-25 23:01 UTC)