[HN Gopher] Heat exchanger masks for cold weather cycling (2019)
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Heat exchanger masks for cold weather cycling (2019)
Author : bill38
Score : 119 points
Date : 2024-01-25 11:07 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.coldbike.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.coldbike.com)
| fredthedeadhead wrote:
| The site is down, so here's a working archive link:
| https://web.archive.org/web/20240125111236/https://www.coldb...
| mkoryak wrote:
| I used to commute on bike into Boston year round from 12 miles
| away for a few years.
|
| Getting dressed in the winter was always an art and I often
| thought about making some kind of a clothes chooser website that
| took into account the temperature and a bunch of other factors.
|
| I wish I had known of these masks. Keeping your glasses not
| fogged up was always a challenge.
|
| Winter biking in general is no joke around here because of the
| weather and the drivers. I started to wear a camera after I got
| hit by a car... see:
| https://youtu.be/2hJ_hzjlQsw?si=28yM2wmbCiQuOlJ7
| gerl1ng wrote:
| Living in central europe I rarely see Temperatures lower than
| -5degC. But when it's colder than that, I just put up my ski
| goggles and they are great for that. Also a full face mask will
| be added at -8 and lower.
|
| Without goggles at those temperatures my eyes would start
| hurting after around 30 minutes of cycling. Might not be
| healthy to get the eyes freezing either.
| ghosty141 wrote:
| I cycle to work everyday with my roadbike. My current job is
| quite close (only ~5-6km!) and below 1-2degC I wear my rain
| pants and only at like -10 and lower do I actually dig out
| the ski mask. For everything else my Oakley Jawbreakers work
| great.
|
| Generally it's not as bad as many people think, it only
| becomes hard if the trip takes longer than an hour and
| temperatures are below -2 -5 degrees.
| imp0cat wrote:
| This. Short distances (~15 minutes of ride time) are very
| doable with no extra cycling-specific equipment, just a
| thicker jacket, pair of gloves and a warm hat. You kinda
| get used to it.
| Etheryte wrote:
| As a tangent, as long as you're alive and kicking your eyes
| won't freeze. Eyes are in sockets inside your head and the
| heat radiating into them is enough for them not to freeze.
| (Otherwise prehistoric humans living in cold climates
| would've been thoroughly screwed.)
| high_priest wrote:
| Won't freeze, but extreme temp. difference might lead to
| long term damage.
|
| Also, I don't think prehistoric humans, living in colder
| climates, had to endure long term exposure to direct wind
| at ~8m/s, used machines that created such scenarios, or
| relied on feeding themselves by running after prey.
| emj wrote:
| I have never felt it, so what do you mean by extremes? I
| do not think a daily commute for 50 minutes in -15degC at
| ~25km/h on a bicycle is extreme. I never feel affected. I
| also go Nordic sking in -30degC for hours I have never
| been affected. The sun with snow blindness is not fun
| though never doing that mistake again.
| Etheryte wrote:
| I suspect this is one of those cases where people who
| don't live in cold climates overestimate how rough it is.
| I also live somewhere where -30C is not rare and it's
| perfectly normal to spend hours outside in that weather.
| You just layer up, but outside of mountain skiing I don't
| think I've ever worn goggles.
| Moru wrote:
| I also live in a cold climate. I get very bad eye
| problems below -15 C. at -10 I can handle just using my
| normal glasses but below -15 I need goggles. At -20 I put
| on a balaclava with goggles on top. It all depends on
| your age and medical problems.
|
| The temperature problem can also be underestimated. You
| really need the right clothes. I have a little list on my
| phone for what to wear at what temperature and I pack
| some alternative clothes to add if needed. In case wind
| was harder than anticipated or it's so slippery and bumpy
| that you will never get any sort of speed.
|
| I use Lungplus for breathing. I have two models, one for
| below +10 C and one for below 0 C that heats better.
| Asthma isn't funny. Cold allergy neither. I'm probably
| not totally sane going biking at -35 C.
| TylerE wrote:
| I can only imagine what it's like living somewhere
| actually cold. I've got pretty bad asthma (severe enough
| that I'm on a maintenance med on top of the rescue
| inhaler) and allergies. Cold is a big trigger for my
| asthma, and yea, after doing the conversion 10C is about
| when I'd start to really notice, but I probably start
| seeing some effects around 15C or so. Luckily I live in a
| temperate area, the coldest it ever gets is about -5 or
| so. My other big asthma triggers are exercise and my
| allergens - which are all the basic boring stuff -
| pollen, ragweed, mold, dust, etc. So basically walking
| outside is like getting punched in the lungs. I started
| wearing N95 masks basically when I was able to get my
| hands on them (so, early 2021) and eventually settled on
| the 3M Aura actually mentioned in another post. They
| really do warm the air quite a bit, enough to mostly not
| trigger my asthma, and help a lot with the allergies too.
| I've also only gotten sick once in 4 years, and that was
| last year when I took my mom out for a mother's day meal
| at a packed restaurant. I really try to avoid restaurants
| during peak hours. Ironically strep and not COVID. So,
| basically, starting wearing them for one health reason,
| have kept wearing them for that and for several side
| benefits that were happy discoveries.
|
| I have to be really careful as I have a number of other
| chronic conditions, including diabetes, and between them,
| and the meds I take for 'em, I'm usually rather fatigued
| and run down at the best of times. It's quasi-stable, but
| I've been hospitalized several times foe respiratory
| issues, and I'm only in my 30s, and to be frank, none of
| what I have exactly gets better with age.
| Moru wrote:
| I'm sorry to hear that, I can only too well imagine how
| it's like. I'm just like you but several notches better
| and 20 years older and no diabetes. It helped a lot to
| start biking and I'm getting better and better thanks to
| the lungplus. But I do feel like I got hit in the lungs
| now and then if I don't start very slowly. After 15-20
| minutes I can start with uphill and higher speeds and all
| feels fine again.
| TylerE wrote:
| It's a really vicious cycle. Right before the pandemic, I
| had a decent routine up, was down about 40lbs.. still
| big, shut down...then the pandemic, everything shut down
| (including my gym, permanently). About a year later for
| no real reason any doctor has been able to really explain
| beyond "well, you're diabetic and have unfortunate bone
| structure" I developed pressure ulcers on the bottom of
| both feet nearly simultaneously, in roughly the same
| (mirror imaged) spot. The second broke out just as the
| first was starting to heal in earnest. Basically spent
| June 2022-March 2023 on near bed-rest as that was the
| only way to actually get them to heal. They've both since
| healed, but my feet are never really gonna be the same
| again, plus there's nerve damage etc that basically means
| I don't have a ton of sensation down there anymore. Which
| is a long way of saying... you know how in TV commercials
| for gyms and the like it always says "consult your doctor
| before starting any exercise routine"... that's my actual
| life.
| glormph wrote:
| Maybe when going fast on a bike, they'd cool down faster. I
| remember from ice skating below 0C that if I didn't wear
| sports glasses, my eyes would hurt afterwards in the warm
| dressing room. I've always attributed that to them
| "thawing" although that's probably not literally what they
| do.
| grogenaut wrote:
| Knowing people who've worked in Antarctica I'd challenge that
| statement. They wouldn't take their gear of for more than a
| few seconds.
| d_runs_far wrote:
| I live in the Canadian Prairies, run outdoors year round. One
| thing I've experienced a few times is my contact lenses
| feeling much more rigid, which I've attributed to them
| starting to freeze up in extreme situations. Typically near
| the end of longer, 3+ hour runs where I'd be facing the wind
| and moving slower. Temps lower than -25 celsius and a 10 km/h
| wind cools things down fast.
| joekrill wrote:
| I built a site like this for running (https://dressmyrun.com).
| I've gotten a few requests to make a similar site for cycling.
| I don't ride much myself so it's a little more difficult for me
| to judge how it should work. But I keep meaning to at least
| take a stab at it.
| imp0cat wrote:
| It will be a bit harder because of different route profiles.
| On a bike, you can both be quite cold when coasting downhill
| and steamy hot going uphill.
| usrusr wrote:
| Even road quality can be a factor: huge difference between
| a cold -1000m elevation drop at -6% on a road where I can
| blast out of the curves at maximum watts and a cold -1000m
| elevation drop at -6% where I have to tiptoe down
| constantly pulling the brakes. The former can be tolerably
| comfortable with much less clothing despite much harder
| wind.
| markfenton wrote:
| Can I just say thank you, I love your site! Despite being a
| regular runner it's much more convenient than trying to
| remember what I like to wear for a particular forecast.
| joekrill wrote:
| Thanks so much, I appreciate that!
| orenlindsey wrote:
| I love this site! Wish I had found it sooner
| erictd wrote:
| Nice! I am going to give it a try for my Sierra Nevada
| foothills location. On cooler mornings I tend to add a light
| Smartwool beanie and a second shirt layer (long sleeve over
| short sleeve), weights according to my feelings about the
| temperature.
| jerlam wrote:
| Cycling is much harder to plan for than running due to much
| higher variability, but it's compensated by lots of cycling
| accessories / layers that are small enough to be carried on
| the bike. Arm warmers, skull caps, long-fingered gloves,
| glove covers, shoe covers, thin vests, and so on can handle a
| high range of temperatures.
| yardshop wrote:
| I commute by bike 2 or 3 days a week outside of Portland Maine.
| Last week had the coldest days so far at 17F (-8C). Generally
| my face and breath are always fine fully exposed, but my
| fingertips always get very cold even in the 30s. My ride starts
| off with a couple uphills so that warms me up pretty well, and
| I alternate pulling my fingers into the palms of my gloves from
| one hand to the other. The traffic is not usually _too_ bad, so
| the joys of biking generally outweigh all the other
| irritations!
| mkoryak wrote:
| I messed around with connecting my external bike light
| battery pack to hand warming elements that I wrapped around
| my handlebars. It kinda worked a little bit.
| yardshop wrote:
| That's a neat idea! Maybe I could rig something like that
| up with one of my Ryobi battery packs.
| Moru wrote:
| Just try the barmits already :-) With the right ones you
| can use your summer gloves inside.
| yardshop wrote:
| Summer gloves?!? what kind of crazy talk is that! =)
| lukas099 wrote:
| Hand protection
| wlesieutre wrote:
| They make "hand deflectors" for motorcycles that are
| basically little windshields for your hands, have you
| considered trying something similar on your bike? Or are you
| not moving fast enough for the wind to be an issue, it's just
| how cold it is?
| yardshop wrote:
| The wind definitely affects things, but its also partly
| glove choice and mostly less good circulation than in years
| past. Gripping the bars and also keeping fingers on the
| cold aluminum brake levers speeds the heat drain too.
| Mittens would be better but I have to find a non-bulky
| pair. I will look at these deflectors too, thanks!
| imp0cat wrote:
| Handlerbar-mounted bike mitts help a lot.
| justinator wrote:
| Bar Mitts/Bike Pogies!
|
| https://www.cyclingweekly.com/products/smitten-with-
| mittens-...
| nicolapede wrote:
| Thanks! Those look exactly what I need! I struggle to keep
| my hands warm below -3C.
| yardshop wrote:
| I will look into them, thanks! I couldn't actually read the
| article, it said "Thanks for reading 20 articles this
| month, please sign up" and blocked the rest of it, even
| though I've never been there before. Will try on my less
| ancient PC!
|
| I'm wondering how they accommodate shifters and brakes but
| I'm sure they do since I saw them all over NYC last time I
| was there.
| Moru wrote:
| There are several versions that fits different bike
| handles. I still haven't found anything that fits mine
| though so have to survive with double gloves.
|
| There are also lobster gloves where you pair two fingers
| next to each other to keep warm and still be able to use
| the breaks and shifters.
| yardshop wrote:
| I have something like the lobster gloves. They are REI
| three-finger gloves where the index and middle finger are
| separate, and the ring and pinky are together in a shell
| pocket and each in their own liner pockets. They are my
| best ones so far and fingers don't get quite as nippy
| that way. But the shells are bulky and have extra long
| cuffs. Tradeoffs!
| mckn1ght wrote:
| I have Dogwood Designs pogies on a flat bar with SRAM NX
| shifters and SRAM Level brakes and they work well. I saw
| a guy's blog post [0] that shows them on cruiser bars,
| just to give you an idea of the variety of setups they
| can accommodate.
|
| They make them in two warmth ratings, down to -15degF [1]
| and below -15degF [2]
|
| [0]: https://jnyyz.wordpress.com/2022/01/11/dogwood-
| designs-pogie...
|
| [1]: https://www.907bikes.com/product-page/dogwood-
| designs-winter...
|
| [2]: https://www.907bikes.com/product-page/dogwood-
| designs-winter...
| Moru wrote:
| Thanks, will have a look! It's hard to find alternatives
| here, everyone seems to be using gloves.
| justinator wrote:
| I vastly prefer them over thick gloves. You can wear a
| thin glove and work the shifter/brakes more easily.
| CalRobert wrote:
| Ah, Boston cycling looks like a joy.
|
| You might find this useful https://loudbicycle.com/
| mkoryak wrote:
| I have the silent version: a fake pigeon attached to my
| helmet. Most of my interactions with cars and people are
| great because of it.
|
| Ive only had a handful of problems - like the one I linked in
| the video above.
| noir_lord wrote:
| > I often thought about making some kind of a clothes chooser
| website that took into account the temperature and a bunch of
| other factors.
|
| I had a similar idea once upon a time, it'd take in your
| proposed route and what time you'd be at each point then look
| up the weather for each point and generate a "ride weather
| forecast" (since for 80-100 mile rides you can be out for 4-6
| hours the weather in the UK can change on a dime) with
| appropriate clothing.
|
| In the end it was just easier to look up the forecast for each
| area manually but it'd definitely be something I'd use if it
| existed.
| drew870mitchell wrote:
| Weather Underground used to have a great tool for this that
| they called Road Trip Planner, but it broke and they took it
| down several years ago rather than fixing it. While trying to
| find the exact name i found a forum post listing a couple
| alternatives (Accuweather, get-there-dry, Weather Channel,
| EDD) that are also 404 now. But the hunt did lead me to
| aviationweather.gov which has hour-interval forecast coverage
| for US airspace e.g. https://aviationweather.gov/gfa/#temps
| yardshop wrote:
| I'm still very sad about the final demise of the
| weather.gov EDD! I didn't use that clothing feature, but
| found it to be the best radar. I especially liked using
| URLs to my own images as pointers on the map.
| dylan604 wrote:
| "You're going on YouTube my friend!" <3
|
| If only you had made it more obvious and framed up his license
| plate so it was clearly visible in frame. Although, he did look
| a bit older and seems easily confused. Maybe he should run for
| president?
| mkoryak wrote:
| I wasn't trying to produce a viral video. I was mostly just
| pissed off that he insisted that the bike lanes weren't on
| the inside of THAT road, which they are.
|
| FWIW, he got doxxed after it went viral. He turned out to be
| a judge from south Boston.
| dylan604 wrote:
| oh, that's brilliant. this video is a classic example of
| "fuck you! i'm wrong!"
|
| i did love the moment you can hear your "hmm" as you start
| to contemplate what's possibly about to happen.
| GenerWork wrote:
| This would be perfect to integrate into a stormtrooper helmet.
| You would get eye protection from the wind (not sure if
| stormtrooper helmet lenses had polarization or UV blocking) along
| with the heat exchanger.
| djbusby wrote:
| Stormtrooper lenses had like 100% blocking - explains their
| aim.
| GenerWork wrote:
| Can't believe that with all that technology (FTL travel, etc)
| the empire forgot to come up with dynamically adjustable
| lenses.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| And that time the one stormtrooper walked directly into a
| doorframe and knocked himself out. The Emperors finest folks!
| londons_explore wrote:
| The article doesn't describe exactly how these work... I could
| see 2 potential designs:
|
| Design 1:
|
| A high thermal mass piece of porous material, which air flows in
| and out through the same holes. As air is exhaled, the material
| warms up. As air is inhaled, the material gives collected heat to
| the incoming air.
|
| Design 2:
|
| As above, but there are two sets of paths through the material.
| The paths are in a checkerboard pattern so there is good thermal
| conductivity between them. One set is for incoming fresh air and
| the other for used air. One way valves ensure air travels in the
| correct direction through each hole.
|
| Design 1 is great for keeping both heat and moisture (air will be
| pre humidified on the way in). However, it has the downside that
| all of the air in the tubes will be re-inhaled in each breath.
| Effectively your lung capacity will be reduced by the volume of
| the mask.
|
| Design 2 is more mechanically complex, gives you very dry air to
| breathe in, and will be prone to clogging with condensation, but
| has the advantage that you aren't rebreathing any CO2 laden air.
| And just 2% breathed back in causes "complaints of drowsiness and
| poor air"[1]
|
| [1]: https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/chemical/carbondioxide.htm
| dgacmu wrote:
| They're all design 1. Here's a manufacturer link with an air
| flow diagram for one of the recommended ones:
| https://www.ergodyne.com/nferno-6970-extreme-balaclava-hot-r...
|
| That said, the volume of air that could be retained in the foam
| heat exchange insert is quite small (eyeballing it, maybe
| 50-100ml?) compared to normal human inhalation volume, about
| 3-4L per breath during moderate exercise.
| londons_explore wrote:
| 100 ml / 4 liters = 2.5%.
|
| 2.5% of CO2 laden air (~50,000 ppm) + 97.5% fresh air (420
| ppm) = 1640ppm.
|
| 1640 ppm of CO2 is very much into the 'feels drowsy and hard
| to concentrate' region.
| _flux wrote:
| However, per
| https://www.omnicalculator.com/ecology/co2-breathing-
| emissio..., the air a person breaths out has only 4% CO2,
| reducing that number to 65ppm, right?
| londons_explore wrote:
| (40,000 x 0.025) + (420 x 0.975) = 1409.5 ppm
| _flux wrote:
| Right you are!
|
| I guess the two valves in working masks are then quite
| essential, and normal breathing masks better have as
| little extra space for air in them as possible.
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| Does that stay true when exercising? At rest, with a tidal
| volume of 500ml ish, lungs are least 5/6 full of stale air,
| round down to 3% ish CO2.
|
| When exercising, the tidal volumes are far higher (2-3L),
| and you breathe faster, so the lung air is at least twice
| as fresh as it was at rest, probably more, since fresh air
| is functionally 0% CO2, and you're moving maybe 6 times the
| gas volume in each direction.
|
| Does that massive change in volume and diffusion gradient
| (at least at the start of a breath) means that you might be
| able to tolerate a higher CO2 level in the inhaled air?
| Moru wrote:
| I'm using Lungplus version that works with something
| similar to design 1 and have no problem with drowsyness at
| all. The benefit of breathing warm moisturized air
| outweighs the very small amount of stale air. I measure it
| to about 25 ml by filling it with water and shaking it out
| again.
|
| Lungplus is just a silicon wrap around a package of
| corrugated metal wrapped around itself so the air pathway
| is straight and very open and easy to breath through. Each
| pipe is about a millimiter in height and 2-3 in width. It
| still heats up the air very well at least down to -35 C at
| which time the freehub starts freezing and I can't bike
| anyway :-)
| heelix wrote:
| I use something similar to design 1, when deer hunting in
| really cold weather. Similar looking gadget in silicon.
| Moisture does become an issue - as water will accumulate over
| time. It is marginally better than wrapping up in frozen
| scarves.
| mpreda wrote:
| I use an integrated device of design 1, it's called a "nose".
| Higher air resistance than the "mouth", but provides the heat
| and humidity exchange.
| tim333 wrote:
| I used a PSOLAR Heat Exchange Mask
| (https://www.amazon.com/PSOLAR-Heat-Exchange-Mask-
| Full/dp/B00...)
|
| for high altitude mountaineering and it worked very well for
| keeping warm but it didn't work like that and wasn't really a
| 'Heat Exchanger'.
|
| What it actually had was a moisture absorbing substance stuck
| on a plastic comb like structure.
|
| When you breathed out damp air from your lungs the substance
| would absorb the moisture and when you breathed in dry air it
| would release the moisture making it more humid.
|
| This actually made a big difference to body heat as breathing
| in cold dry air onto hot moist lungs is very cooling from
| evaporation.
|
| It also stops your lungs drying out. If you read Everest books
| they all get dry lungs and chest infections the the psolar
| thing seemed pretty good at stopping that.
|
| I get the impression these are similar - really moisture
| exchangers and the 'heat exchanger' thing is marketing.
| cainxinth wrote:
| Very helpful review, but imho, unless you're biking in extreme
| cold (below 0F), you don't need these. I've been cycling in 0-30F
| weather in just a cloth balaclava for a decade without issue (and
| I'm not especially resistant to cold).
| goda90 wrote:
| Do you wear glasses? Fogging is a big issue with most face
| coverings for me.
| cainxinth wrote:
| I do wear glasses, but they have an anti fog coating. Also, I
| prefer to leave my nose out of the balaclava and instead
| cover it with a neoprene nose cover (NozKon), which helps
| prevent glasses from fogging (and doesn't squish my nose).
| themerone wrote:
| It's a problem for me as a skier. Give Blackstrap products a
| try, I've found them to be much less problematic.
| dublinben wrote:
| I swear by the Seirus Masque for both skiing and cycling.[0]
| The neoprene fits tightly to your face, but lets your nose
| exhale freely, which minimizes glasses fogging. They've got a
| hundred variations now for different levels of comfort and
| warmth.
|
| https://www.seirus.com/products/original-masque
| wanderingstan wrote:
| Yes, the author mentions that -5degF is the boundary to "really
| cold".
| zeekaran wrote:
| I struggle to breathe cold air merely jogging in 40F. I think I
| should try a regular, cheap mask before dropping $77 on an
| Airtrim though.
| xarope wrote:
| I have worn the cold avenger (just google, it should be in the
| top 10 hits) in the south and north polar areas, and for high
| altitude.
|
| It's surprising how warm the air gets, I actually had to take it
| off at times whilst working hard.
| vdaea wrote:
| Have you considered buying a car?
| squidgyhead wrote:
| Thankfully, I have been able to keept the car in the garage and
| ride at -30. Passed a lot of cars needing a boost though.
| Moru wrote:
| My commute is about 20 minutes on bike. At -35 C I passed 5
| cars in parking lots with the hood up and in best case jumper
| cables from neighbour cars. There were a lot of cars that
| just didn't start any more.
| timeon wrote:
| Why? Is he disabled?
| Astraco wrote:
| Is possible
| zeekaran wrote:
| Times like these I wish HN had a downvote button.
| daemonologist wrote:
| At a certain karma threshold (500?) a downvote button is
| enabled; the desaturated/greyed out appearance of vdaea's
| comment indicates that people have been using it.
|
| More info: https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-
| undocumented#downvo...
| Fricken wrote:
| The recent cold snap in Edmonton had me commuting in -37degC.
| I've never had to rely on face coverings while cycling.
|
| Last August however I attempted to cycle from Edmonton to
| Vancouver but was shut down due to wildfire smoke. My next chance
| to attempt is again in August, and I don't expect the smoke
| conditions to be any better. I could go for a cycling or sports
| specific PAP.
| winphone1974 wrote:
| If you can find time a few weeks later September is much
| better. Less smoke and fewer tourists-especially the rental
| motorhomes. Weather is a crapshoot year round but August and
| September pretty similar (unless it snows in either month!)
| Note: I'm sure you know this, it's more for any potential bike
| visitors.
|
| It was cold in Calgary too, but you definitely had it worse!
| squidgyhead wrote:
| I used the 3m filter mask biking in the wildfire smoke a while
| ago. There is a blowout hole, which makes it much easier to get
| stale air out. The sport-specifc one from MEC made it hard to
| get fresh air when biking up hill.
|
| I used the air warmer mask during this last cold snap. It made
| it so much more comfortable! Last year I was fine biking in the
| cold snap, except for one time biking up a hill. Actually
| breathing hard, I got a lot more cold air in my lungs, and
| ended up with a cough for a week. Wanted to avoid that this
| year.
| btbuildem wrote:
| 3M Aura N95 respirator (the one with an exhale valve) handles
| both situations extremely well.
| p1mrx wrote:
| I just designed this 3D printed "antimask" to keep my face warm
| without fogging my glasses:
| https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6438319
|
| Somebody suggested adding a sloping nose/mouth shield, and I said
| what I really needed was a heat exchanger... nice to see that
| they actually exist.
| avar wrote:
| Growing up in Iceland[1] I learned to breathe in through my
| mouth, out the nose, with the chin tucked into my collar.
|
| It requires tightly fitted clothing and folded clothing layers,
| and a bit of practice, but by doing this you can breathe pre-
| heated air, as it's been passing over your body.
|
| As far as modern solutions go, USB charged heated socks and other
| actively heated clothing has become cheap and light in recent
| years.
|
| 1. Yeah it's not that cold there compared to further inland, but
| usually windy as hell. I'd mostly use this to avoid inhaling
| snow.
| maxglute wrote:
| >learned
|
| It this an unnatural kill you were taught like swimming or
| figured out what works best for you? I'm just imagining Iceland
| kindergarten giving winter breathing tutorials. Which is great.
| I feel like a lot more common life hacks should be transmitted
| this way.
|
| Like it blows my mind some cultures normalize ass washing, and
| subsects of others clump toilet paper.
| avar wrote:
| You just learn how to do it, it's not part of the school
| program or anything :-)
|
| If you're standing around in the cold it's a natural impulse
| to hide half your face it your jacket collar. I'm surprised
| I'm the first one pointing this out.
|
| P.s.: I'm the proud owner of a bidet.
| maxglute wrote:
| I've spend way too much money on different scarfs, neck
| gaiters, face covers of different fabrics and performance
| material to keep my face warm during winter and moist free
| over the years. I instinctually tried mouth breathing, but
| all it did was draw fabric closer to mouth and made things
| wetter. I think maybe I didn't fully transition to
| breathing out through nose because it feels unnatural.
| Maybe it's one of those things where the solution is
| obvious but hard to adopt. So now I'm wastefully going
| through a few boxes of masks during winter months. TBH,
| only time I remember breath through mouth and exhale
| through nose is maybe meditation videos. Certainly not in
| any of the random winter wilderness survival videos. Which
| is why I was curious if this is some like cultural
| knowledge being passed.
| Moru wrote:
| We discussed this among ourselves when in kindergarthen
| and school while doing the mandatory skiing classes. The
| most sensitive part is the nose so you breath out there
| to warm it up. Less dripping nose as long as you can keep
| it up. If you forget, the nose directly freezes up and
| your nose will be dripping the rest of the trip :-)
|
| I was so baffled that the heat exchangers were so cheap,
| I had always imagined them to cost a fortune so I didn't
| even think of getting one until a few years ago. But I
| guess they did cost a lot more 20 years ago...
| maxglute wrote:
| As someone whose body is getting more cowardly to cold by the
| year, I'd wear these as a pedestrian. I decided to keep wearing
| optimus prime style face mask during winter because it does a
| good job of keeping my face shielded without getting too moist.
| matsemann wrote:
| I don't feel the need for this for commuting by bike, even in
| cold Norway. Mostly because I for commuting am never that out of
| breath that my lungs hurt.
|
| However, I use the Lung Plus variant often when cross country
| skiing. When it's -15C and below, pushing myself for an hour or
| more outdoors can make me cough all evening. Lots of people have
| cold induced asthma from training too hard outdoors in their
| youths. But with this I'm fine.
|
| Also, the main point for me isn't necessarily the temperature,
| but that it retains more moisture. -15C can feel vastly different
| in humid Oslo, compared to the dryness of the mountain pass
| Hardangervidda. This feels like it "helps" avoiding dry coughing.
|
| I don't really like the mask variants. If covid thought people
| with glasses anything, it's that masks fogs everything up! My
| Lung Plus mostly fogs if I'm standing still, then I breath
| straight ahead and into my glasses, otherwise it's fine. My
| girlfriend however recently bought a "OXYO one", which is the
| same concept. But it has more of a "snorkel" bite piece, and
| moves the air to the sides instead. So it's a bit smarter in that
| regard.
|
| I guess looks is the main drawback. And how the saliva freezes,
| heh, look at the icicle in my picture. This is me the other day
| in -24C:
|
| https://imgur.com/a/NXm8P79
| glormph wrote:
| I considered a lung plus but the risk of tripping while running
| and it hitting my teeth made me buy a mask instead which also
| covers the nose. Icicles form on that too though.
| matsemann wrote:
| That's why I added a string to it and around my neck. Then I
| can just spit it out with little consequences if I approach
| something scary. But for skiing that's mostly corners at the
| end of a steep hill. For running I guess a fall could happen
| at any time.
| Moru wrote:
| The lungplus can be worn between your teeth and compresses
| nicely if you have an accident. But spit it out is ofcourse
| better if you have the chance.
| grogenaut wrote:
| My problem is when it's that cold my nasal tissues swell and
| close up so I'm only breathing through my mouth like I had nose
| plugs. Unpleasent
| speedgoose wrote:
| I am not Norwegian, but I live in Norway and I do as the
| Norwegians do. If many neighbours go skiing, I can go skiing.
| The temperature reached -30C around Oslo this month and the
| absence of skiers in the Marka was a clear indication that I
| could stay home without feeling bad about it.
| matsemann wrote:
| Haha, I approve!
|
| I was actually one of those in Marka. The problem wasn't
| really getting cold. It was that cold snow doesn't compress
| to a form, it just gets really crunchy. So even in fresh
| tracks the snow is still somewhat "loose", and there is
| really no glide at all. The sound just makes lots of noise
| for each movement, but you get no speed.
| speedgoose wrote:
| That's interesting. It was very cold snow for a while but I
| haven't tried when it was super cold. I may try next time
| this happens to satisfy my curiosity. The snow is much
| faster since a few days.
| semi-extrinsic wrote:
| I haven't tested how it is with the new non-fluorocarbon
| glide waxes, but definitely with the old stuff the very
| cold snow was a killer for stripping wax out of the base.
| Probably would do wonders with a fresh round of Swix TS5B
| melted on the glide portion of a cleaned sole, then wait 10
| minutes and reheat the wax for extra durability. Then
| sikling and light brushing with the medium bronze. And just
| some VP30 over base binder for grip.
| grecy wrote:
| Come up to the Yukon!
|
| The colder it gets the more people are out. I rode my bike to
| work every day of the year, plenty of times past -40.
|
| Friends were advised not to go running at -55C (-67F) because
| it can freeze your lungs. So they went walking instead.
| Moru wrote:
| There are breathing help for that, feels like a cold
| summers day. Well, that's what the article is about after
| all so I guess you guys know about it :-)
| speedgoose wrote:
| That sounds very cold for biking. Do you use studded tires
| or winter tires for bikes? Isn't frostbite a major concern?
| grecy wrote:
| I studded my own tires by putting screws through from the
| inside out.
|
| Frostbite can be a problem if you stand still or if it's
| really windy, but usually not something to really worry
| about. Not only did I ride to work every day for 3 years,
| I also went for a walk every single day at lunchtime to
| get sun on my face. Walking, outside, past -40C is really
| no problem. The days the wind was blowing from the north
| and the windchill was past -65C were a different story.
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| "I do as the Norwegians do"
|
| Yeah... About that. How's well are you walking on ice? (Also
| an immigrant)
|
| I'm in Trondheim and it's been wonderfully covered in ice. I
| watch kids run on it while I resign to slipping spikes onto
| my shoes just to stay upright. (I don't ski, but I have made
| sure to go out into the weather like "normal")
| speedgoose wrote:
| I'm originally from the Alps, so I had experience with
| snow, ice, and skiing before immigrating to Norway.
| However, I do not have the same balance and skills as the
| average Norwegian regarding Nordic skiing or moving on ice.
|
| Without spikes, I walk on ice like a penguin and I
| struggle. I have no shame about using spikes, it's magic
| and also a lot safer.
| avar wrote:
| Have you tried using this this with full size (downhill) ski
| goggles? It'll enclose your eyes and glasses from your nose. If
| you get good anti -fog goggles (expensive) you should be able
| to mostly or entirely avoid the fogging.
|
| Not just because of the fancy lens, but some ski goggles stick
| so for out that your exhale tends to travel up and along their
| sides, and not over the lenses.
| foobarian wrote:
| I've been thinking of grabbing one of those fume hood helmets
| where the head covering has a generously sized visor, and hook
| up the pipes to a backpack-located heat- and air-exchanger.
| Possibly even inject the warm air from the top alongside the
| transparent material. How nice would that be in freezing cold!
| Like a cheap DIY space suit.
| matsemann wrote:
| Just be careful you don't end up with a system where you
| breathe the same air in and out and suffocate! Like a child
| using am adult snorkel, where they only move the same air
| back and forth and pass out.
| brunoqc wrote:
| Any link for the "OXYO one"? I can't seem to find it.
| matsemann wrote:
| Here's where she bought it from https://www.foss-
| sport.no/blunds/168592/oxyo-sport-varmeveks...
|
| Edit: and I've seen it in loads of various sport stores in
| Norway. But from all my searching I only find a few Norwegian
| results. Making me think it's either a Norwegian product, or
| rebranded by the importer. But reverse image search doesn't
| really yield any similar looking products either.
| btbuildem wrote:
| I live where temperatures go below -20C routinely in the winter.
| I also cycle year round (commute, groceries, etc), and there's
| definitely an art to gearing up for physical activity in that
| type of weather.
|
| Majority of face coverings seem to have the same weakness:
| moisture. Exhaled breath dampens them, and if that's not gross
| enough, as inhaled breath pulls cold air in, they freeze up.
|
| The best solution I've found is the 3M Aura valved N95
| respirator. It's breathable enough so that even with moderate to
| high cardio activity I don't feel short of breath. The exhalation
| valve routes most of the warm moist air out -- while condensation
| drips off the valve, the filter material remains relatively dry
| and does not freeze up. This, combined with a helmet, balaclava
| and wraparound ski goggles makes for a pretty impervious getup
| [1].
|
| The heat exchanger feature is an interesting one. One idea that
| immediately comes to mind is using body heat to warm the air
| intake. A piece of avalanche safety gear called Avalung [2] could
| provide a starting point (eg, if worn under winter clothing
| instead of on top of it). I imagine other solutions from
| industries where people work in hazardous air conditions could
| also be adapted.
|
| Personally, I'd love me a little DIY hazmat rig that can
| effectively filter intake air, neatly deal with the exhale
| moisture, while rocking that post-apocalypse punk aesthetic. The
| era of insidious airborne pathogens seems to be upon us, and with
| the climate upheaval, the oppressive forest fire smoke of last
| year will seem quaint so very soon.
|
| 1: https://i.imgur.com/CheNY96.png (earlier iteration before the
| valved Aura)
|
| 2: http://blog.alpineinstitute.com/2012/12/the-avalung.html
| dylan604 wrote:
| > 2: http://blog.alpineinstitute.com/2012/12/the-avalung.html
|
| "One thing to keep in mind is that this will not make you
| invincible. Many avalanche victims are injured or killed by the
| trauma - the force of an avalanche - and not by suffocation.
| The Avalung will not of course do anything to help this. "
|
| Now, I'm thinking as part of the backpack system, it has a
| protection system similar to the Mars rover that inflated a
| large inflatable shield that allowed the landing without any
| kind of chutes. So from the backpack, this shield would inflate
| either from a manual pull of a cord or when it detects you've
| taken a tumble.
| matsemann wrote:
| That's pretty standard equipment as well, actually :)
|
| My backpack has a handle, and when I drag it, a huge thing
| inflates and folds out. This both protects you, and
| supposedly makes you not buried as deep. ("avalanche airbag")
|
| Downhill skiers also have inflatable vests on them. They are
| automatic, and blows up inside their suit around the torso
| when they fall. ("dainese airbag")
| avar wrote:
| > supposedly makes you > not buried as deep
|
| Not just that, but if you start out deep it should make you
| "float" to the top while the avalanche is in motion, at
| least for some types of avalanches.
|
| Put small and large pebbles in a jar and keep shaking it,
| the larger pebbles will rise to the top. Same principle.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Interesting, I was half joking, but I did fall into the the
| rabbit hole looking up the 2 airbags you mentioned. The
| avalanche airbag looks like it's just meant to protect the
| head from whiplash. I didn't see how it would prevent from
| being buried or protecting the head when slammed face
| first.
|
| The dainese airbag site[0] just sent me into "is this a
| joke" mode with the video included on the page. It just has
| the feel of a parody. That poor guy doesn't look
| comfortable at all. The editing makes it have that
| intentionally bad continuity used when making parody
| infomercials. The arm is awkwardly posed with hand in
| pocket, cut to hand waving, cut back to hand in pocket.
| It's very hard to take seriously.
|
| [0]https://www.dainese.com/us/en/dainese/smart-jacket.html
| matsemann wrote:
| There is no special need to protect the head from getting
| slammed in an avalanche. What the bag does is that it
| protects you from being buried and crushed beneath a ton
| of snow. Both by making you "float" higher when caught in
| the avalanche. But also by taking up space when buried,
| so that when it deflates you're in a "pocket" and not
| getting crushed.
|
| Haven't seen the video before. But In often see racers
| being "bulky" when skiing down after an accident. Looks
| funny, but it's useful.
| ladberg wrote:
| You're quite literally describing a James Bond gadget:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-IpqOHZMuDI
|
| But yeah I do think it's plausible, albeit on a smaller scale
| than Bond's.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Yes! this is much closer to what my mind pictured. I'm not
| a Bond fan, but of course he'd just so happen to have this.
| Next, someone will show a Batman episode where he has this
| on his belt clip.
| schiffern wrote:
| > I'd love me a little DIY hazmat rig that can effectively
| filter intake air
|
| I posted a review of a little device I've used for a couple
| years now, plus some tips and tricks. Aesthetics are up to you
| (I "de-logo" mine with Magic Eraser), but functionally it's
| been great.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34378478
| Metacelsus wrote:
| Funny, I was just thinking about making something like this
| during cold weather last week.
| zwieback wrote:
| This is kind of cool but I do have one question: I notice a lot
| of cold-bragging going on, people talking about how it's negative
| -20C or -30C outside, etc. When I google typical winter
| temperatures in the area those people live it usually turns out
| that the quoted temp is the 10 or 20 year record.
|
| And don't get me started about windchill...
| WXLCKNO wrote:
| Just looked and close to me the record low was -37C but we
| still get -30 every winter for sure and -20 on many days
| throughout the winter. (Quebec)
|
| Probably just a normal distribution
| zwieback wrote:
| Yeah, that's legit pretty chilly. Quebec City in winter is on
| my bucket list.
| mrguyorama wrote:
| Go visit the Carnival de Quebec! Stay in the Ice hotel!
| Spend too much money!
| Moru wrote:
| Temperatures can be extremely variated in very short distances
| depending on where the cold air gets stuck and where it moves
| away. Just now when I did my evening ride I had to stop after 5
| km and put on goggles after the temp went down 10 degrees
| compared to the start location. I badly regretted not putting
| on the extra cotton layer.
|
| On the other hand some people use an IR thermometer to measure
| temperature outside which gives the completely wrong
| temperature. Can be 10-20 degrees lower than air temperature.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| I bought an oversized polyester fleece balaclava with drawstring
| at a truck stop. Because it's too big for me it leaves room
| within the balaclava, so it retains warm air, but still breathes
| well. I haven't tried it in arctic temps but it works decently at
| -10F with wind.
| KennyBlanken wrote:
| Your body has a built-in device that does exactly what all these
| devices described do, along with providing some filtration of air
| before it gets to your lungs.
|
| It's called "your nose."
|
| https://www.google.com/search?q=athletes+nasal+breathing
| recursive wrote:
| I've used both. The nose can't get as much air through it.
| Moru wrote:
| You don't live where it gets really cold I take it. After about
| three breaths your nose is a block of ice and don't warm up
| anything at all.
| binary132 wrote:
| I tend to get exercise-induced asthma when I run if it's near or
| below freezing. I wonder which of these would be suitable for
| that.
| e44858 wrote:
| Exercise-induced asthma is likely caused by dehydration of the
| airway surface:
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6834710/
|
| Increasing the air temperature is not enough, you also need to
| increase humidity. It also helps to keep the body hydrated by
| constantly drinking water with electrolytes throughout the
| workout.
| binary132 wrote:
| Interesting, thank you for that information! But if it's not
| primarily cold-related, I wonder why I don't experience it as
| intensely when it's warmer? I guess because of the dryness of
| cold air? But then, wouldn't cold air absorb less moisture?
| e44858 wrote:
| I live in a desert climate, and I frequently get exercise-
| induced asthma in the early summer when it's hot and dry. A
| useful metric is the dew point, for me asthma kicks in when
| the dew point approaches freezing. If you live in a more
| humid climate, warmer weather usually means higher dew
| points, so it's only dry in the winter when the air is too
| cold to hold the moisture (because dew point can't ever
| exceed temperature).
| vinni2 wrote:
| Is it just me or the website won't open?
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