[HN Gopher] San Francisco Tried to Build a $1.7M Toilet. It's St...
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San Francisco Tried to Build a $1.7M Toilet. It's Still Not Done
Author : 2OEH8eoCRo0
Score : 19 points
Date : 2024-01-24 21:15 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| labrador wrote:
| This is actually an interesting problem if people gave it a
| minute. Here's the initial conditions: We don't lock up mentally
| ill people anymore in California because "patient rights"
| including the right to non-neurotypical. This results in mentally
| ill people wandering the streets. They are too sick to
| respectfully use commerical establishment bathrooms, so they rely
| on public bathrooms. Since there is a shortage of those, they end
| up using the street. So SF wants to build an indesctructible
| public toilet for them so they don't use the street, which turns
| out to be hard because the mentally ill are often clever and find
| ways to make it a nightmare for everyone, so it ends up costing
| 1.7 million dollars and take a long time. What would you do?
| notRobot wrote:
| Tackle the social conditions that lead to mentally unwell
| people being helpless and homeless and foodless on the streets.
|
| There are enough resources in this world to take care of
| everyone. We should not tolerate the fact that so many people
| struggle all their lives at no fault of their own, simply
| because of the conditions they're born into.
|
| You can help mentally unwell people without locking them up,
| what are you on about?
| labrador wrote:
| I don't know where you're from but it wasn't just Governors
| Brown and Reagan who created the problem, it was the
| Psychiatric survivors movement which was against forced
| treatment and forced medication.
|
| I voluntarily take my medication and look upon those poor
| schizophrenics on the street screaming at birds with pity and
| sadness because well meaning do gooders don't believe they
| should be forced to take meds or accept treatment of any kind
| (because freedom) so they are left to suffer like wounded
| animals on the street.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychiatric_survivors_movement
| pydry wrote:
| Homelessness isnt a side effect of a mental illness
| epidemic. Mental illness is a side effect of a homelessness
| epidemic.
|
| The reason for the focus on mental illness as a cause is
| that it stops people from drawing a direct line between a
| cult of landlord greed and drug addicts defecating outside
| of your local drugstore.
| proc0 wrote:
| Hmm, it's almost like treating the symptom instead of the
| cause.
| cpursley wrote:
| It's the American way.
| iamleppert wrote:
| Designing an indestructible public toilet for use by mentally
| ill homeless individuals involves considering both durability
| and accessibility, while also ensuring the safety and comfort
| of users. Here are key design aspects to consider:
|
| 1. *Robust Materials:* Use vandal-resistant materials like
| heavy-duty stainless steel for walls, floors, and fixtures.
| Surfaces should be easy to clean and resistant to graffiti.
|
| 2. *Safety Features:* Design should minimize sharp edges and
| corners to prevent self-harm. Incorporate non-removable
| fixtures and ensure there's nothing that can be easily broken
| off or used as a weapon.
|
| 3. *Easy Maintenance:* The toilet should be easy to clean and
| maintain. Consider self-cleaning features or coatings that
| repel dirt and grime.
|
| 4. *Accessibility:* Comply with ADA (Americans with
| Disabilities Act) guidelines to ensure accessibility for
| individuals with physical disabilities. Features like handrails
| and appropriate toilet height are essential.
|
| 5. *Emergency Response:* Incorporate a system for users to
| signal for help in case of an emergency, like a distress button
| that alerts nearby services.
|
| 6. *Privacy and Dignity:* Ensure that the toilet provides
| privacy while also allowing for monitoring in case of
| emergencies. This could include design features that allow for
| external checks without compromising privacy.
|
| 7. *Lighting and Visibility:* Good internal and external
| lighting for safety, while also considering features that
| prevent people from using the space for activities other than
| its intended purpose.
|
| 8. *Simple and Intuitive Design:* The toilet should be user-
| friendly, with clear signage and instructions to accommodate
| individuals with varying levels of cognitive function.
|
| 9. *Community Integration:* The design should be visually
| pleasing and fit well within its surroundings to avoid
| stigmatization of users.
|
| 10. *Health and Hygiene Facilities:* Include handwashing
| stations, and possibly needle disposal units for safe disposal
| of sharps.
|
| 11. *Monitoring and Management:* Consider integrating
| technology for remote monitoring of the facility's condition
| and usage to facilitate timely maintenance.
|
| 12. *Crisis Information:* Display contact information for local
| mental health and homeless support services inside the toilet.
|
| This design approach balances durability, safety, and
| accessibility, providing a dignified solution for a vulnerable
| population.
|
| Creating a high-level development and testing plan for an
| indestructible public toilet designed for use by mentally ill
| homeless individuals involves several stages:
| conceptualization, design, prototyping, testing, and
| deployment. Here's a general outline for such a project:
|
| ### 1. *Project Initialization and Conceptualization (1-2
| Months)* - *Activities:* Define project scope, objectives, and
| feasibility studies. - *Headcount:* Project Manager (PM), 2
| Researchers. - *Budget:* Initial research and administrative
| costs.
|
| ### 2. *Design Phase (3-4 Months)* - *Activities:* Detailed
| design based on requirements, ADA compliance, safety and
| durability considerations. - *Headcount:* PM, 2 Design
| Engineers, 1 ADA Compliance Specialist, 1 Safety Expert. -
| *Budget:* Personnel costs, design software, and consultation
| fees.
|
| ### 3. *Prototyping (2-3 Months)* - *Activities:* Constructing
| a full-scale prototype. - *Headcount:* PM, 2 Design Engineers,
| 2 Mechanical Engineers, 1 Electrical Engineer (for automated
| features). - *Budget:* Material costs for prototype, labor, and
| facility rental.
|
| ### 4. *Testing Phase (3-4 Months)* - *Activities:* Durability
| testing, user experience testing with focus groups (including
| mental health professionals and target user representatives),
| safety compliance checks. - *Headcount:* PM, 1 Test Engineer, 1
| Safety Expert, 1 User Experience Specialist. - *Budget:*
| Testing equipment, focus group expenses, safety certification
| fees.
|
| ### 5. *Feedback and Redesign (1-2 Months)* - *Activities:*
| Analyzing test results, making necessary redesigns. -
| *Headcount:* PM, 2 Design Engineers, 1 Test Engineer. -
| *Budget:* Additional design and material costs.
|
| ### 6. *Final Product Development (2-3 Months)* - *Activities:*
| Finalizing the design, preparing for production. - *Headcount:*
| PM, 2 Design Engineers, 1 Production Specialist. - *Budget:*
| Final design and preparation costs.
|
| ### 7. *Deployment and Monitoring (Ongoing)* - *Activities:*
| Installation, community integration, and ongoing monitoring. -
| *Headcount:* PM, 1 Installation Coordinator, 1 Monitoring and
| Maintenance Supervisor. - *Budget:* Installation costs,
| monitoring systems, and initial maintenance budget.
|
| ### Total Project Timeline: 14-21 Months
|
| ### Estimated Total Headcount: - 1 Project Manager (full-time
| throughout the project) - 2-4 Engineers (varying specialties,
| full-time during specific phases) - Various specialists (part-
| time or consulting basis)
|
| ### Estimated Total Budget: - This would depend heavily on
| regional costs, material choices, and labor rates. A rough
| estimate could range from $500,000 to $1,000,000, considering
| all phases from design to deployment.
|
| ### Considerations: - This plan assumes a single prototype
| development. For multiple units or different designs, adjust
| timelines and budgets accordingly. - Costs for land, permits,
| and regulatory compliance are not included and can vary
| greatly. - Ongoing maintenance and operational costs post-
| deployment should be planned separately.
|
| This plan provides a high-level overview and would need to be
| refined with more detailed information and specific regional
| considerations.
| fshbbdssbbgdd wrote:
| If we have a $1.7M budget, we could hire people to handle
| each of those twelve points for $100k a pop. I got dibs on
| "crisis information". This toilet is going to have the most
| informative signage you've ever seen.
| mvdtnz wrote:
| Don't do this here.
| matteoraso wrote:
| Did you read the article? It has nothing to do with
| homelessness, just city inefficiency.
| delichon wrote:
| This was not an extraordinary toilet. It wasn't a pilot for a
| super duper new kind of public toilet. It wasn't an art project.
| It was just a toilet. This isn't an extreme case, it's normal. It
| just got attention because of our scatological fetish.
| google234123 wrote:
| What? It got attention because it's an egregious example of SFs
| completely dysfunctional gov
| InCityDreams wrote:
| Piss is now scat?
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > An expensive public bathroom project has come to symbolize the
| city's bureaucratic inefficiencies.
|
| There are too many words in that sentence, here's a fixed
| version:
|
| "An expensive public project has come to symbolize bureaucratic
| inefficiencies."
|
| It applies worldwide.
| dventimi wrote:
| Every single time
|
| https://archive.ph/2024.01.24-205525/https://www.nytimes.com...
| jlmorton wrote:
| Is $1.7 million actually that bad?
|
| I'm not sure this is unusual to San Francisco. Just a couple days
| ago, I saw Honolulu suggest a new public toilet would cost $1-2
| million, along with $400,000 annually in maintenance and damage
| from vandalism.
| jerrysievert wrote:
| I still wonder why they didn't just purchase some Portland loo's:
| https://portlandloo.com/faq/
|
| they work well, are actually pleasant to use, and are nigh
| indestructible.
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(page generated 2024-01-24 23:01 UTC)