[HN Gopher] Inside A Global Phone Spy Tool Monitoring Billions
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       Inside A Global Phone Spy Tool Monitoring Billions
        
       Author : dharmab
       Score  : 77 points
       Date   : 2024-01-24 20:32 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.404media.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.404media.co)
        
       | chaps wrote:
       | The linked paper goes into some of the more-technical details
       | about how the multicast ad exchanges work. Very much worth a
       | read. The number of avenues for capturing this information,
       | legally or otherwise, is intense. Though I disagree with the
       | conclusion of the paper that it's remotely fixable through
       | abstract walls -- that's really just moving the goalpost.
       | 
       | https://www.iccl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/Europes-hidde...
        
         | happytiger wrote:
         | It's also irrelevant if one can cross reference just a few
         | pieces of data: phone did, address, location geo associated
         | known associates, multiple locations (school, work, home),
         | demographic info, one can de-anonymize data relatively
         | painlessly. And that is a lot easier if I'm targeting a single
         | person and know some of those data points to start.
         | 
         | And how much of this applies to the companies that aren't
         | buying the data but generating it themselves?
         | 
         | RTB is just one vector of many, and while it's useful to expose
         | how much data is constantly leaking, it's just the tip of the
         | iceberg.
        
           | chaps wrote:
           | Well, yes. Yes.
           | 
           | The more we can understand this stuff, the better. Not many
           | journalists are working on these issues, and it's nice to see
           | it get more coverage by folk dedicated to it. I've personally
           | had an exceptionally difficult time pitching this sort of
           | story to outlets -- they want something _big and juicy_. But
           | the reality of it all is boring, subtle and routine. Then
           | made much worse by the army of lawyers who will argue to the
           | bone about what  "private" and "consent" means in the favor
           | of privacy damning systems like what we see here.
        
       | 399393993 wrote:
       | Googol's response is incredibly amusing. "The government can't be
       | trusted with all that info! We have to cut them off! Only we can
       | be trusted with all that info!"
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | Most companies seem to be of the opinion that spying is bad
         | except when they're the ones doing it.
        
       | happytiger wrote:
       | This has been known for years. I'm not sure why it's only now
       | getting attention.
       | 
       | Section 702 was just renewed, so maybe it's out the issue on
       | people's radar?
       | 
       | https://www.nationalreview.com/news/house-passes-annual-defe...
       | 
       | Until we have a privacy bill or rights or equivalent, attached to
       | the individual, privacy will be exploited by every nation and
       | business imaginable. And the efforts to try to make it more
       | difficult to tap data without an warrant are asinine... all it
       | does is push the databases to public/private partnership models,
       | and these models can generally easily de-anonymize data by cross
       | referencing data.
       | 
       | It's strange to see an article on the subject published a month
       | after the section 702 renewal, as if fisa and warrants weren't
       | the issue but commercial collection sources somehow are.
       | 
       | Besides... It's not some big secret: the website is easily
       | Googleable as is the deck.
       | 
       | http://isasecurity.org/patternz
       | 
       | https://sovsys.co/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/PATTERNZ-NATION...
       | 
       | AND Forbes also covered this exact system back in November of
       | last year.
       | 
       | https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2023/11/14/web-b...
       | 
       | The real scoop would be looking at how new AI systems are being
       | used to mine this data. This is the real problem national
       | security agencies have to solve: how to consistently gain useful
       | and actionable insights at scale and decide what's _not_ worth
       | paying attention to because the absolutely colossal volumes of
       | data generates huge amounts of review.
       | 
       | Anyone know why this article is dropping now? Odd timing.
        
         | BLKNSLVR wrote:
         | Semi rhetorical question: is it too late to introduce
         | legislation protecting this kind of private data?
         | 
         | Discussion point one: is the industry profiting from gathering,
         | shifting, mining, selling this data large enough that it would
         | cause an employment problem for any country that may enact such
         | legislation? (probably a much bigger problem for the US than
         | any other country).
         | 
         | Discussion point two: is it likely that, even if the
         | legislation doesn't have favouritism carve-outs for specific
         | groups/companies, the industry would find ways around it, with
         | the end game being: nothing changes.
        
           | e12e wrote:
           | I think gdpr style legislation can work - but the price (and
           | purpose) would be making most types of surveillance
           | capitalism illegal.
           | 
           | People can bug your house with fiber optics today, but only
           | the government and perhaps your family can do it legally.
        
       | overstay8930 wrote:
       | If you have an iPhone aren't you safe from this with tracking
       | protections enabled (including iCloud Private relay)?
        
         | WhackyIdeas wrote:
         | Although I don't know for sure, I doubt the iPhone is safe from
         | this.
         | 
         | Considering there were multiple zero days found within malware
         | targeting Kaspersky employees recently, and the zero days used
         | vulnerable secret api's only known to Apple themselves, I would
         | assume that Apple users (like myself) are not any more
         | protected from anything.
        
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