[HN Gopher] Zed, a collaborative code editor, is now open source
___________________________________________________________________
Zed, a collaborative code editor, is now open source
Author : FeroTheFox
Score : 750 points
Date : 2024-01-24 17:15 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (zed.dev)
(TXT) w3m dump (zed.dev)
| mgrandl wrote:
| Exciting stuff! Have enjoyed using Zed so far although I haven't
| been able to fully switch over.
| packetlost wrote:
| I hope this leads to Zed being ported to other platforms (Linux,
| please!)
| misternugget wrote:
| Hey! Engineer at Zed here. Linux port is on our roadmap.
| Hopefully we'll get it done this year!
| shortrounddev2 wrote:
| What about Windows?
| misternugget wrote:
| I think that is on the roadmap too, but possibly further
| down.
| kvark wrote:
| How are you planning to tackle the GPU API differences?
| 1propionyl wrote:
| (Not OP)
|
| These days that's a lot less of a concern than it used to
| be. It is a lot of up-front work to facade e.g. Metal,
| Vulkan (and even D3D12) but it's much much much easier than
| back in OpenGL vs D3D9/10 days.
|
| Most of the general concepts are more or less the same
| across them all these days. The "shapes" of the APIs are
| very similar.
|
| A texture is a texture is a texture. Same for a
| vertex/index/uniform buffer, vertex/fragment/compute
| shaders (notably not geometry, but you can just use
| compute), etc.
| 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
| I'm not in the graphics world at all, but I read this
| lively discussion last week (post [0], discussion [1])
| that made me think the situation was pretty messy. Is it
| maybe not as bad as that makes it appear?
|
| [0] https://www.carette.xyz/posts/we_are_doomed/
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38994780
| raphlinus wrote:
| I'd recommend wgpu. It should be a fairly easy migration
| from Metal, as Apple has been actively involved in the
| design, and there are similar concerns for developer
| experience (unlike, say, Vulkan).
|
| Unfortunately, graphics is in many ways the easy part.
| Really excellent integration with system menus,
| preferences, keyboard, input method editing, all have
| more variation across platforms and a still-evolving
| story of solid Rust abstractions. Lately, we've decided
| to try joining forces with the winit project to see if we
| can get those problems solved well.
| LoganDark wrote:
| Is there any way to make it compatible with macOS 10.14? Your
| minimum macOS requirement is literally just one release away
| from what I have!
| hav wrote:
| I'm running it just fine on 10.14.
| LoganDark wrote:
| During the closed beta, the requirements said the minimum
| was 10.15, and I tried to download it and run it anyway
| and it wouldn't run.
|
| Did you have to build it from source?
| cpuguy83 wrote:
| Since you are here I'll hijack the thread :) What about
| remote support ala vscode-server over SSH.
| c-c-c-c-c wrote:
| Please not ala vscode-server over SSH.
|
| Do it proper like emacs tramp so it will connect to any
| platforms/architectures.
| Shish2k wrote:
| "Please don't do it like a 4x4 truck, do it proper, like
| a bicycle" -- there is some overlap between those things,
| but for people who are actually making full use of the
| former, the latter is not a useful suggestion
| klyrs wrote:
| I'd suggest that the people who make "full use" of vsc-
| over-ssh are satisfied with vscode, so it would be unwise
| to target the full featureset.
|
| More generally, targeting another project's complete
| featureset is often a great way to get mired down in the
| wrong details. Unless you can afford to do a proper
| cleanroom -- then, you'll be able to at least match the
| performance and useful abstractions used in the original.
| rand_flip_bit wrote:
| > I'd suggest that the people who make "full use" of vsc-
| over-ssh are satisfied with vscode, so it would be unwise
| to target the full featureset.
|
| Remote SSH + Dev Containers and their seamless
| integration (even stacking one on the other) are the only
| features that keep me using VS Code. I would love to see
| the full implementation of these in an editor as fast and
| light weight as Zed.
| madeofpalk wrote:
| I'm really keen for Windows support, but only if it means
| WSL. I hope their architecture allows for it.
| yoyohello13 wrote:
| When they get linux support you could probably run it in
| WSL, since WSL supports GUI apps now.
| spearman wrote:
| https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/5347
| awill wrote:
| Excellent. A big reason I use Sublime is because it's cross
| platform (Mac at work, Linux at home).
| ufo wrote:
| Speaking of Linux, are there any other editors we can use
| today? I tried to look for one recently but couldn't find
| anything. (edit: I mean collaborative editors)
| CodeCompost wrote:
| You're joking, right?
| ufo wrote:
| Looking for collaborative editors in particular. Two people
| editing at once, on different computers. Each person has
| their own copy of the file, on disk.
| stevage wrote:
| I'm curious about your use case?
| fredoliveira wrote:
| This is a pretty common use case. Remote pair
| programming, interviews, etc, all rely on this same basic
| idea.
| ufo wrote:
| Authoring Latex documents. I want a non-browser
| alternative to Overleaf. When the paper is close to done,
| me and my colleague are on voice call, editing the same
| file. But we both want to be able to compile it to PDF,
| to be able to see the figures.
| politelemon wrote:
| nano, pico, vim, VS Code, Brackets, Notepadqq, Gedit, Kate,
| Leafpad, Geany
| cstrahan wrote:
| Helix is another interesting option:
|
| https://helix-editor.com/
| greyw wrote:
| emacs.
| ufo wrote:
| I was particularly looking for collaborative editing; two
| people editing the same file at once and each has a local
| copy of the file so they can run the code. Perhaps one
| could use a normal editor for this if there were some
| underlying command-line tool and/or plugin to do the actual
| file synchronization. Do you know of any?
| iruoy wrote:
| All JetBrains IDEs work on Linux and all electron apps of
| course. Lapce seems like Zed and is already available on
| Linux. So is Sublime Text.
|
| There's a whole list here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/L
| ist_of_applications/Docume...
| SCdF wrote:
| Collaborative editors I presume you mean? Because 99% of
| popular editors have linux builds.
|
| Anyway, the VSCode plugin ecosystem is probably your best bet
| there:
| https://code.visualstudio.com/learn/collaboration/live-share
| ufo wrote:
| Precisely, I'm looking for collaborative editors. Thanks
| for the suggestion, I hadn't seen this one.
|
| Unfortunately, it seems that this plugin only shares the
| editor window and does not keep a local copy of the files.
| I was wishing for something that would let both sides run &
| compile the code during the editing session, without having
| to stop for git push.
| https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/live-share/issues/3524
| starkparker wrote:
| Gobby is mostly dead but still works. Win/Linux; macOS builds
| have gotten harder now that it's been about 3 years since the
| last release: https://gobby.github.io/
|
| EDIT: It's apparently on Macports as of quite recently,
| though the port health for recent macOS releases looks bad.
| starkparker wrote:
| As much as I hope for that, I also hope this leads to Zed
| compatibility with other collaborative editing/CRDT clients,
| like SubEthaEdit and Etherpad.
| ushakov wrote:
| Also take a look at their freshly open-sourced Rust UI Framework
| (GPUI): https://www.gpui.rs
| jasonjmcghee wrote:
| So excited about this. Been watching it for a while. Thanks for
| posting it!
| dave_universetf wrote:
| Worth noting that, like many immediate mode UIs, it seems to
| not integrate with OS accessibility infrastructure at all. That
| means any UI built with it will be a black box to anyone who
| needs accessibility tools like VoiceOver, text magnification,
| or semantic navigation.
|
| Hopefully that's fixable :/
| raphlinus wrote:
| It should be. There's AccessKit integration in egui (the most
| prominent Rust immediate mode GUI implementation) now, thanks
| to Matt Campbell's work. I would welcome GPUI and Zed
| adopting that, and I'm sure Matt can offer help in getting it
| integrated.
| mikaylamaki wrote:
| Zed developer here, I've actually looked at how to
| implement AccessKit in Zed, though I couldn't find a quick
| way of jumping into it beyond 'read the egui PR' at the
| time. If anyone wants to take a stab at it I'd love to help
| out and make it happen :)
| mwcampbell wrote:
| Hi, lead AccessKit developer here. Sorry I haven't
| written much documentation yet. For now, the best way to
| learn how to use it is indeed to study the egui PR.
| bartekpacia wrote:
| > Hopefully that's fixable :/
|
| It is, Flutter (which also draws all the UI on a canvas)
| already does that - it's called AccessibilityBridge. The way
| it works is they hook into the native accessibility system
| and create virtual accessibility nodes with the same size and
| coordinates where the "widgets" are drawn. I think it'd be
| useful to create some common AccessibilityBridge-like library
| since more and more UI frameworks are taking the same
| approach as Flutter and GPUI.
| iamnbutler wrote:
| we absolutely want to make accessibility work - hopefully
| open source will give us a bit more wiggle room to have folks
| help us figure some of it out as well.
| AlexAndScripts wrote:
| How many people find real time sharing helpful? I've never found
| it to be beneficial. I'm curious.
| candiddevmike wrote:
| The benefit as a viewer is you can drive navigation on your own
| without asking the presenter to go to a certain spot. So the
| presenter can be discussing a problem or a function, and you
| can investigate/gather context without interrupting them, among
| other things.
|
| I personally can't live without it, and am almost annoyed when
| folks aren't using VSCode/have no way of doing a live share.
| Screen share _sucks_.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Same here, for me it is a gimmick without much value over a
| screen sharing session.
| brimstedt wrote:
| I disagree.
|
| For example, in vscode if the sharer start a http-service the
| port can be port forwarded through the session so anyone in
| the session can interact with the service.
|
| Pretty neat and useful!
| AlexAndScripts wrote:
| That is pretty cool, I didn't know about that. I could see
| it being useful in some niche circumstances.
| pjmlp wrote:
| I find it as interesting as mob programming.
|
| Anyone can interact with common team servers.
|
| It is one of those things that developer advocates love to
| show at conferences.
| mikaylamaki wrote:
| Zed developer here, You can come try it out with us right now
| if you like: https://zed.dev/channel/zed-283
|
| Though you'll have to sign the CLA first :)
| AlexAndScripts wrote:
| Thanks for the offer. I unfortunately don't have a mac but I
| appreciate it :)
| misternugget wrote:
| I only joined Zed, the company, a week ago, so take this with a
| grain of salt, but:
|
| I've never really used real-time sharing (tried VS Code's Live
| mode and other apps) for longer than just 1-2 attempts, but at
| Zed things are different somehow. _Everybody_ is constantly
| available in a channel and people just hop in or out. In the
| last 7 days I spent 3-5hrs every day pairing with others, using
| Zed 's live mode. No video, only audio and sharing code in Zed
| (no video was weird at first, but now I think I'm starting to
| get used to it?)
|
| IMHO it's a combination of culture and technology, but when the
| mix of that is right it really feels game-changing.
| cauthon wrote:
| > In the last 7 days I spent 3-5hrs every day pairing with
| others
|
| This sounds remarkably inefficient?
| volsa_ wrote:
| Are you kidding? Sounds remarkably efficient specifically
| because OP just joined a week ago.
| robodan wrote:
| That may depend on what you're trying to do. If you are
| figuring out something tricky, then lots of quiet head down
| time is what you need. Every interruption hurts when you
| are concentrating.
|
| However, a lot of the time is just figuring out how to glue
| together multiple systems. Being able to pull in various
| people to interface little bits is priceless. There is no
| flow here, only collaboration.
| aseipp wrote:
| Honestly, it's pretty cool in my experience; in VSCode everyone
| gets their own "client-side navigation" so while you are typing
| something, your coworker can go look up a function for you in
| another file, etc. Even though they exist in "your" instance,
| they still get Go To Definition, Find References, type-on-
| hover, etc.
|
| Realistically though it doesn't replace every instance of
| screen sharing, for me. It's also cultural to some extent I
| guess. For things like debugging or being intro'd to a new
| codebase, I think it's great, though.
| shortrounddev2 wrote:
| As a senior engineer, it really helps when helping junior
| engineers. When I'm on a call and we're sharing screens it gets
| really annoying having to tell them "no, go up. Go up, all the
| way up, the button at the top. THE TOP"
| 9dev wrote:
| This. The worst thing is that I get mad at them for not doing
| what I want them to, faster, when the tooling and my crooked
| explanations are at fault, not them. Not that I mention that
| out loud, but sometimes I feel ashamed for those feelings.
|
| Having real time collaboration that works so seamlessly as
| Zed apparently does would really get me to consider switching
| IDEs!
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Seems like VNC or similar would be a better solution. Might
| need to use a terminal or other program. Instead of
| confining it to one application.
| gpm wrote:
| I've greatly enjoyed pair (and trio) programming with friends
| using it (vscode's version of this) on side projects. For the
| most part I'm not sold that pair programming is an efficient
| way to program, but it's a nice social way to program.
|
| If you're going to do it, especially remotely, it's really nice
| to have your editor support it instead of just using screen
| sharing.
| AlexAndScripts wrote:
| I've never really pair programmed - I've worked on joint
| projects, of course, but collaboration occurs over
| discord/github. I'm intrigued - what does this actually
| consist of? Does one person write one function and another
| write the next while you chat about what needs to be done?
| gpm wrote:
| We tend to work on one 'thing' at a time. Sometimes that
| means we're both/all on the same few lines of code writing
| a new function - at which point one person is usually doing
| all or nearly all the typing. If you then need to go define
| a constant somewhere else in the code or something the
| other person does that so you don't have to pause. Other
| times one thing involves code in various places because
| you're doing something like changing what arguments a
| function takes, or fixing compiler warnings, and we do
| spread out and handle instances of the thing we're fixing
| as we come across them.
|
| Lines of code per second it's closer to one person than the
| 2 or 3 people involved, but the quality of those lines
| definitely improves a bit as people spot each-others
| mistakes/less than optimal choices. (Edit: But I'd
| emphasize we're doing this for fun, not to maximize
| productivity)
| comprev wrote:
| Often one person is the driver, the other is a director.
|
| Like being in a rally car :)
| yawboakye wrote:
| ime, real time sharing works best when there's shared context.
| otherwise it's essentially an artist rendering a public
| performance in the presence of an audience. unless you derive
| some joy from watching people code it could get frustrating
| real fast.
| porsager wrote:
| It is such a game changer for me. Pair programming or multi
| pair programming if you will, suddenly has 0 barriers.
| Including others in your session with no overhead changes
| things completely. Before I would rarely include others in my
| processes because it cost too much. Now I'll do it whenever...
| Switched from sublime and got my coworkers macs just to be able
| to use zed and work in this way.
|
| It is extremely important it works fast and fluid, and zed is
| the only one I've tried that nails it. There are still a few
| things that needs tweaking wrt. undo history, but I'm sure
| they'll get that to feel intuitive in the end.
| zzyzxd wrote:
| When a person tells another person "you need to do X" or "I did
| Y and it didn't work on my machine", they sometimes ignore
| important details due to their own curse of knowledge. That's
| when I need a shared terminal/editor so that both parties know
| exactly what is happening.
|
| I don't frequently share terminal/editor but occasionally need
| to do so, maybe a handful times a year. Most of times when I
| tell a new colleague "hey, connect to my tmux socket by running
| this command / opening this link", they were amazed and thought
| it was magical. I am not a Zed user but it's always welcome to
| see people making effort to make pair programming easier for
| everyone.
|
| Now, I don't know how I would feel if one day my colleague send
| me a sharing session link that can only be opened by a
| particular editor.
| jiripospisil wrote:
| It sounds nice in theory but I've noticed I cannot focus when
| somebody else is looking over my shoulder. It could be useful
| as a way to occasionally show somebody around the code base
| though.
| comprev wrote:
| The anxiety of someone constantly peering over my shoulder in
| a virtual sense greatly amplifies any imposter syndrome
| already present.
|
| Every typo, every goofy idea (which clearly would not work),
| etc. all laid bare to see in realtime.
|
| Pair programming was the main reason I left a company after
| management rolled it out to every team.
| kevsim wrote:
| In our 100% remote startup, VSCode live share and Slack Huddles
| is how we work through the really tough stuff together.
|
| We should probably do it more often than we do, but there is a
| real fatigue after an hour or two.
| myaccountonhn wrote:
| Tangent: I wish we could standardize real-time code sharing the
| same way we have with LSPs. It is sad that if you want to pair-
| program, both have to be using the same editor. It really makes
| more sense to have one standard format so that one person can use
| VSCode and another can use Vim or Zed. If you want to make it
| standard practice you have to enforce everyone to use the same
| editor, which sucks.
|
| Already at work some people have complained that I don't use
| VSCode for code-sharing.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| With Neovims headless capabilities, I am hoping for the day
| every major IDE and editor has first party support as a front-
| end for Neovim, and then any Neovim plugin just becomes
| universal across all IDEs and editors. Which... you can make
| Neovim plugins in almost any language, I've seen bindings for
| "lesser popular" languages.
|
| I'm not even a vim guy, but if JetBrains finally adds front-end
| support for Neovim, I might just become a de-facto VIM guy.
| Instead of emulating vim like they do, they could just
| literally support Neovim as a back-end. I'm still surprised
| nobody at JetBrains has put in effort into this.
| ckolkey wrote:
| I'm right there with you - my yet-unrealized dream is
| sublime's front-end with neovim powering it.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| Yet another front-end I think needs it. I am looking at
| both Sublime and JetBrains because I use both. Notepad from
| Windows by Microsoft will support Neovim before both at
| this point (I was shocked to find that it supports tabs,
| and lets me keep unsaved files open just like ST).
| DistractionRect wrote:
| Real time document editing and sync is actually a tall order.
| To make it editor/tool agnostic you'd need some kind of overlay
| fs + first/third party support in the various editors (as most
| editors don't hot reload file changes; they expect the files
| they have open not to be changing underfoot).
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Apache Wave (nee Google Wave) is a thing.
| DistractionRect wrote:
| Was a thing.
|
| After almost a decade it never got off the ground. And
| while it might address the core problem (collaborative
| editing), that still leaves the ecosystem problem: fuse
| mounts, first/third party adoption in the editor or via
| extensions/plugins. Arguably that's drawing the rest of the
| f*** owl.
| myaccountonhn wrote:
| Yeah I don't know what work is involved to build something
| like it, but not having it def. leaves the editor ecosystem
| in a vulnerable position for monopolistic practices.
| Evidlo wrote:
| Isn't that what Floobits is?
|
| https://floobits.com/
| mxstbr wrote:
| Here is a direct link to the repo: https://github.com/zed-
| industries/zed
| mikaelsouza wrote:
| This is so nice! Congrats to the team for the achievement!
|
| To commemorate, I am running `brew install --cask zed` right now!
| :^)
| account-5 wrote:
| I remember listening to a changelog episode about zed ages ago. I
| liked what I heard about but that fact it's not for Linux just
| now and I don't have any friends to code with means I'd likely
| not use it.
| koenbok wrote:
| Zed developers, if you read this, please get inspired by Cursors
| "Fix it" button that you can click on any error. It simply starts
| a new chat with the code context and error message, suggesting
| possible fixes.
|
| I'm currently learning Rust and this is such a powerup that I
| honestly wouldn't know how to learn anything without.
| ethanwillis wrote:
| Zed developers, please don't. I don't want my core editor
| potentially sending out my code to who knows where or wasting
| cycles analyzing it.
|
| If people want this just let it be a plugin.
| glennpratt wrote:
| > Zed supports GitHub Copilot out of the box, and you can use
| GPT-4 generate or refactor code by pressing ctrl-enter and
| typing a natural language prompt. https://zed.dev/
|
| Seems like that ship has sailed. Maybe it's a plugin already
| or could be in the future, but that's not on GP's suggestion.
| keb_ wrote:
| I'm already picturing a "Zedium" fork for the FOSS/Privacy
| enthusiasts.
| ethanwillis wrote:
| This made me chuckle. Then at the same time I find it
| disheartening that privacy is currently seen as an
| enthusiast position rather than the default. I really
| dont mind the idea of these anti-privacy things being
| included as long as I have an _option_ to turn them off
| before running Zed for the first time.
| smodo wrote:
| I'd say the ship is in port but ready to sail. Before this
| does anything you have to provide your own API key. So it's
| off by default. It's just the button that is there.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Beyond "is it on by default" (due to data privacy concerns)
| whether something belongs in a "core" editor or in a plugin
| is a whole separate can of worms - moreso if the core editor
| starts shipping plugins. There is someone who reads that
| agreeing it means the editor should be just a plugin store
| and if you want font hinting, syntax coloring, tabs,
| terminals, smooth scrolling, and so on then download them
| yourself. At the same time there is someone who reads that
| agreeing it means the editor should have anything possible
| related to working with text but if you want to play a video
| while you code the plugin system should allow you to do that
| in a pane. Neither are really right or wrong about what
| should be a plugin, it's really a matter of what the tool
| wants to optimize for out of the box.
| safouen wrote:
| i've heared about Zed for a long time and it seems promising but
| as long as it's not on windows/linux it's not for developers.
| brimstedt wrote:
| I agree. I currently use macos at work, but I avoid investing
| learning time to tools I can only use on one platform.
| dimgl wrote:
| > it's not for developers.
|
| What? Who is it for then?
| askonomm wrote:
| I'm a developer, and I use a Mac, so ...
| jamil7 wrote:
| Ah yes windows, the classic developer OS.
| Thaxll wrote:
| I looked at some random files, did not find a single comment,
| very strange.
| porsager wrote:
| What a weird statement. It's beautiful! You don't need
| comments, just read the code. No need to litter code with
| ambiguous language. The only place a comment fits is if the
| purpose is not clear from the code.
| stephanerangaya wrote:
| I am so happy to see GPUI now open source. This is very exciting,
| really grateful to the team at Zed to do this.
| eviks wrote:
| Welcome news, hopefully we could eventually get to a modern
| highly extensible performant text editor!
| zozbot234 wrote:
| This. Sure, Emacs is a modern, highly extensible, performant OS
| already but we all know it's missing a good text editor!
| bradrn wrote:
| No it isn't -- evil-mode is a great text editor!
| grepfru_it wrote:
| I'ma let you finish, but pico was the greatest text editor
| of all time
| zokier wrote:
| Emacs is great many things, but fast it is not. Nativecomp
| improved some stuff a bit and there has been other
| improvements lately too, but ultimately the core of emacs is
| built for flexibility, not for perf.
| xigoi wrote:
| What's wrong with Neovim?
| lukax wrote:
| Very nice to see that it uses native IME. You can test it by
| pressing ctrl+cmd+space on macOS and see if the Emoji picker
| shows up.
|
| Lapce is another text editor written in Rust but it does not
| support native IME yet.
| yawboakye wrote:
| would be great if all or part of 'We're excited to announce that
| Zed is now an open source project' were hyperlinked to the
| repository, wouldn't it?
| cute_boi wrote:
| In my opinion, Zed is the only replacement for Sublime Text 4.
| Now, it is open source. Wow.
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| Zed isn't on windows and linux yet so it isn't really cross
| platform.
| KAdot wrote:
| Is there a way to disable all "collaborative" features, including
| removing the "Sign in" button?
| BiteCode_dev wrote:
| Now that it's FOSS, you can fork it.
| yunwal wrote:
| The polite thing to do if you have a feature you think would
| make a FOSS project better is to submit a feature request
| first. If the maintainers decide they won't support your
| feature quickly enough or at all, then fork it. GP did the
| right thing here
| hk__2 wrote:
| Why don't you use another editor? From what I understand this
| is a core feature of Zed.
| Octoth0rpe wrote:
| I'm generally a big fan of zed and have been using it for 60%ish
| of my dev time for 6 months or so. A couple of nice things to
| note:
|
| - It really is remarkably responsive,and makes one really notice
| how UNresponsive everything else is. I have reasonably fast
| machines, so we're not talking about the difference between 5ms
| typing lag and 500ms, but it's still pretty surprising. VSCode
| never felt slow on my macs until I started using Zed.
|
| - They seem reasonably responsive to feedback. There was some
| contention around how search/replace was initially implemented,
| and the current builds have something much more usable IMO. I'm
| not sure how much that was driven by community feedback, but the
| changes were great.
|
| - The debug syntax tree mode is a really neat feature that I
| think demonstrates how much more advanced zed is under the hood
| than older editors that are doing syntax highlighting via regex.
|
| There are a few downsides that I'm hoping get addressed soon:
|
| - The collaboration workflow/security isn't very clear to me. You
| sign in via github (no other option???), there are 'contacts' (I
| guess these are github usernames?), and 'channels' (where do
| these live? on zed's servers?). I would really like to know if I
| can self-host the chat server and use a company oauth provider
| rather than github. If the diffs being passed around are going
| through zed's servers, that may be a showstopper for the company
| I work for as well. If they're p2p and encrypted, maybe not.
|
| - I would love to see ollama integration. This + continue is the
| only reason why I spend any amount of time in vscode now. There's
| an issue for it here: https://github.com/zed-
| industries/zed/issues/4424
| rob74 wrote:
| > _VSCode never felt slow on my macs until I started using
| Zed._
|
| I guess you haven't used Sublime Text before?
| stevage wrote:
| I had to stop using sublime because it kept updating its
| search index at inconvenient times and slowing to a crawl.
|
| That and self updating in ways that broke my most important
| plugin.
| SnowingXIV wrote:
| I'm still using Sublime for the references. Without fail I
| can load up any version of an application including older
| rails apps sub 3 and it instantly has context. I can easily
| jump to definitions and even on hover will show me where
| they are being used. In the context of foos.bars.baz I
| could easily infer where bars is defined. Seems to work
| across languages, doesn't matter if it's js, ruby, in an
| erb file it just works. Not to mention the flavor of vim
| feels great.
|
| VSCode complains and I've got to hardcode an alternative
| absolute path gemfile for Shopify's LSP to work. It also
| feels clunkier, even on powerful machines.
|
| If Zed can give parity with Sublime on the references (I
| just tried and it did not seem to find any references when
| clearly bars was there) might be an interesting change.
| Considering it's open source now I'd happily switch as it
| does seems super quick.
|
| I might also be old-man yells at cloud and the copilot
| integration doesn't appear important yet, but current
| sublime support is pretty poor for it and seems like
| that'll be a thing more and more.
| nicoburns wrote:
| I was hitting that bug for about 6 months, but at least for
| me they have actually fixed it now.
| bastawhiz wrote:
| I switched _to_ VSCode because Sublime was occasionally so
| slow at times that it was unusable. It was very fast 95% of
| the time, but then I'd `git pull` on a very big repo and my
| machine would become unresponsive while Sublime
| did...something.
| GrumpySloth wrote:
| I think on Linux at least it freezes due to watching too
| many files using inotify to update its sidebar. I wish
| there was an option to disable that. Same thing happens
| with Sublime Merge. It's unusable on giant repos.
| bayindirh wrote:
| or BBEdit.
| Octoth0rpe wrote:
| Not in 15ish years and at the time I think I had a 5400rpm
| hd, so that probably limited any perception of sublime being
| noticeably faster than other editors I was using (geany,
| kate). I don't doubt that sublime is faster than vscode
| today, but the vscode ecosystem is a pretty nice place to be
| and probably worth trading some speed for, especially on a
| nice mac where the trade off is probably small. Zed might be
| even better however.
| mjaniczek wrote:
| Now I wonder what's the typing lag of 10xeditor, compared to
| Zed...
| flexagoon wrote:
| > older editors that are doing syntax highlighting via regex.
|
| I mean, Emacs, which can probably be considered the oldest code
| editor at this point, got built-in tree-sitter (which is what
| Zed uses under the hood) support in the last release. So it's
| not really related to editors being new or old
| keb_ wrote:
| This is really exciting. I currently use Sublime Text 4, and
| coupled with SublimeLSP, it does _almost_ everything I need. What
| 's missing is good debugger support and UI integration. What's
| the story like for Zed on that front? I briefly scanned the
| homepage and did not see mention of a debugger.
| nXqd wrote:
| This is very nice, I hope we have a windows version soon. And
| this might encourage Sublime Text to do the same, it's one of the
| most responsive editor for now, let's see.
| drewdevault wrote:
| Consider discarding the CLA if you anticipate third-party
| contributions. If you need to verify provenance, the Developer
| Certificate of Origin is a better approach. Otherwise, this
| (correctly) reads as a project which intends to take advantage of
| FOSS contributors for a while before pulling the rug and making
| it non-free again.
| WCSTombs wrote:
| Also the "CLA" link just points to https://zed.dev/cla, which
| asks me to authorize Zed Industries to access my private GitHub
| profile. So at this point I don't even know what the CLA says.
| That's important because not all CLAs are created equal. I
| think some don't fully remove the contributors' ownership,
| which would prevent the hypothetical future closed-sourcing.
| drewdevault wrote:
| I took one for the team and authorized access for long enough
| to read the darn thing, and yes, it expects effectively full
| copyright assignment and leaves the door wide open for a rug
| pull.
| Yujf wrote:
| The CLA does not prevent future closed-sourcing sadly
| erk__ wrote:
| I opened a discussion about that here:
| https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/discussions/4442
| ZeroCool2u wrote:
| This is the content of the CLA:
|
| Zed Contributor License and Feedback Agreement Welcome to our
| Contributor License and Feedback Agreement! Here's a quick
| breakdown of what's inside:
|
| You (the contributor) are entering into an agreement with Zed
| Industries, Inc. You're giving Zed permission to use and
| share your contributions (like original works or
| modifications). You assure us that the contributions are
| truly your own and you have the legal right to share them.
| You're not required to support your contributions but you're
| welcome to if you wish. If you ever notice an error or change
| in the details you've given us, you agree to let us know. In
| short, this agreement covers the terms for your valuable
| contributions to Zed's projects.
|
| Legally binding section follows: By submitting a
| Contribution, use of the Solution or any components related
| thereto (as such is further defined in Zed's End User License
| Agreement located here: https://zed.dev/eula) or as enabled
| pursuant to your use of Zed's collaboration tools offered
| therein, you hereby accept and agree to the terms and
| conditions set forth in this Contributor License and Feedback
| Agreement (the "Agreement") for Your present and future
| Contributions submitted to Zed Industries, Inc. ("Company").
| Except for the license granted herein to Company and
| recipients of software distributed or made available by
| Company, You reserve all right, title, and interest in and to
| Your Contributions.
|
| 1. Definitions.
|
| "Contributor", "You", and "Your" shall mean the copyright
| owner or legal entity authorized by the copyright owner that
| is making this Agreement with Company. For legal entities,
| the entity making a Contribution and all other entities that
| control, are controlled by, or are under common control with
| that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For
| the purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the
| power, direct or indirect, to cause the direction or
| management of such entity, whether by contract or otherwise,
| or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or more of the
| outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such
| entity.
|
| "Contribution" shall mean Feedback (as defined below), any
| original work of authorship, and any modifications or
| additions to an existing work, that is intentionally
| submitted by You to Company for inclusion in, or
| documentation of, any of the products owned or managed by
| Company (the "Work"). For the purposes of this definition,
| "submitted" means any form of electronic, verbal, or written
| communication sent to Company or its representatives,
| including but not limited to communication on electronic
| mailing lists, source code control systems, and issue
| tracking or collaboration systems that are managed by, or on
| behalf of, Company for the purpose of discussing and
| improving the Work, but excluding communication that is
| conspicuously marked or otherwise designated in writing by
| You as "Not a Contribution."
|
| "Feedback" means suggestions, comments, improvements,
| software code / snippets or other information submitted to,
| shared with or otherwise made available to Zed or its
| contributors with respect to, or in connection with the use
| or interaction with, the Work, Zed Network Based Service or
| Editor technology (as defined by Zed and as further described
| within Zed's End User License Agreement located at
| https://zed.dev/eula).
|
| 2. Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and
| conditions of this Agreement, You hereby grant to Company,
| and to recipients of software distributed by Company related
| hereto, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge,
| royalty-free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce,
| prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly
| perform, sublicense, and distribute, Your Contributions and
| such derivative works (the "Contributor License Grant").
| Further, to the extent that You participate in any livestream
| or other collaborative feedback generating session offered by
| Company, you hereby consent to use of any content shared by
| you in connection therewith in accordance with the foregoing
| Contributor License Grant.
|
| 3. Grant of Patent License. Subject to the terms and
| conditions of this Agreement, You hereby grant to Company and
| to recipients of software distributed by Company a perpetual,
| worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free,
| irrevocable (except as stated in this section) patent license
| to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and
| otherwise transfer the Work, where such license applies only
| to those patent claims licensable by You that are necessarily
| infringed by Your Contribution(s) alone or by combination of
| Your Contribution(s) with the Work to which such
| Contribution(s) was submitted. If any entity institutes
| patent litigation against You or any other entity (including
| a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that
| your Contribution, or the Work to which you have contributed,
| constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement, then
| any patent licenses granted to that entity under this
| Agreement for that Contribution or Work shall terminate as of
| the date such litigation is filed.
|
| 4. You represent that you are legally entitled to grant the
| above licenses, including but not limited to any video
| content shared or recorded as related to collaboration with
| Zed and the Zed community. If your employer(s) has rights to
| intellectual property that you create that includes your
| Contributions, you represent that you have received
| permission to make Contributions on behalf of that employer,
| that your employer has waived such rights for your
| Contributions to Company, or that your employer has executed
| a separate Corporate CLA with Company.
|
| 5. You represent that each of Your Contributions is Your
| original creation (see section 7 for submissions on behalf of
| others). You represent that Your Contribution submissions
| include complete details of any third-party license or other
| restriction (including, but not limited to, related patents
| and trademarks) of which you are personally aware and which
| are associated with any part of Your Contributions.
|
| 6. You are not expected to provide support for Your
| Contributions, except to the extent You desire to provide
| support. You may provide support for free, for a fee, or not
| at all. Unless required by applicable law or agreed to in
| writing, You provide Your Contributions on an "AS IS" BASIS,
| WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, either express
| or implied, including, without limitation, any warranties or
| conditions of TITLE, NON-INFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, or
| FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
|
| 7. Should You wish to submit work that is not Your original
| creation, You may submit it to Company separately from any
| Contribution, identifying the complete details of its source
| (e.g., attribution) and of any license or other restriction
| (including, but not limited to, related patents, trademarks,
| and license agreements) of which you are personally aware,
| and conspicuously marking the work prior to submitting it to
| Zed or the Zed community.
|
| 8. You agree to notify Company of any facts or circumstances
| of which you become aware that would make these
| representations inaccurate in any respect.
| maxdeviant wrote:
| We've adjusted it so that the CLA can now be viewed without
| signing in.
|
| Sorry about that!
| bogwog wrote:
| I like CLAs. If there's an open source project that I
| love/depend on, I will most likely want to be able to
| contribute to it for my own personal reasons at some point
| (e.g. fix a bug that bothers me or add a feature I want).
|
| I am a Sublime Text addict, but hate how slow development is
| and how resistant they are to adding more dev-focused features.
| I would _happily_ sign a CLA if it meant I could modify the
| code myself, even if I end up paying to use my own code.
|
| Giving the owner permission to sell my contribution (which is
| likely very minor compared to the rest of the project) gives me
| added peace of mind since I know that the project is (or can
| be) sustainable.
|
| A rug pull is always bad, but it's not fair to assume that
| that's what will happen (unless you know something we don't).
|
| And besides, even if it does happen, that's what forks are for.
| This project is licensed with GPL and AGPL.
| briantakita wrote:
| I had the pleasure of working with Nathan Sobo when he joined
| Pivotal Labs ~2008. He had a burning desire to create a
| transformative text edior/ide back then. He is bright, not only
| in an intellectual & talent sense, but also in an energetic
| sense. He is also compassionate & genuine person. I'm very happy
| & inspired every time I see his endeavors progress.
|
| Knowing Nathan has been one of the major catalysts for me to
| improve the art of software craftsmanship. Sometimes you meet
| amazing people in life & I count Nathan as Amazing in many ways.
| nathansobo wrote:
| Wow Brian, nice to hear from you. Thanks very much for your
| words! I remember you setting a new standard of speed for me
| when we worked together!
| avtar wrote:
| To any of the project members here: viewing the zed.dev home page
| using Safari on an iPhone shows text being cut off. I can't seem
| to scroll to the right either to view the remaining content.
| nomial wrote:
| Getting the same issue on Firefox on Android
| machomaster wrote:
| I have the same issue in Yandex Browser (based on Chrome) on
| Android.
| mcfedr wrote:
| You've chosen to let the Russians spy on your web browser?
| zogrodea wrote:
| I don't understand this comment because American/European
| governments (where I would guess most HN commenters are
| from) are almost certainly doing the same thing according
| to what we've learned about for example the NSA. Maybe you
| trust your own government more.
| Matl wrote:
| Most westerners I've spoken to think that even when a
| Western government does bad, there's probably good
| intentions behind it or at least more noble than any non-
| Western government.
|
| On the flip side, even if you believe that, there's an
| argument to be made that if you live in the West then the
| Russians/Chinese care way less about you than the Five
| Eyes.
| the_duke wrote:
| I have wanted to try out Zed for a while, but unfortunately it
| still seems to be Mac only.
|
| Any plans/timeline for Linux support?
| colesantiago wrote:
| So what is the play here with Zed being open source?
|
| How does Zed make money here?
| soneil wrote:
| They address this in the linked article, under the heading
| "Wait... Doesn't Cash Rule Everything Around Me?".
|
| f.e.,
|
| > Zed Channels is one example of such a service. It's free for
| anyone today, but we intend to begin charging for private use
| after a beta period of experimentation. Providing server-side
| compute to power AI features is another monetization scheme
| we're seeing getting traction.
| tiborsaas wrote:
| They have investors, it's in their FAQ.
| mathfailure wrote:
| What do investors get out of that deal? Positive karma?
| Destiner wrote:
| I've been using Zed for the last few months, and it's amazing,
| very fast and clean.
|
| My only worry is that the collaboration features won't be used
| much, as they require most of the team to use Zed.
| jayloofah wrote:
| One issue I've struggled with in Zed is full language support
| (linters/formatters). Has anyone at the Zed team thought about
| integrating a metalinter like Trunk Check
| (https://docs.trunk.io/check)?
| krainboltgreene wrote:
| A really really solid editor with some very good choices made,
| with exactly one exception: The LLM integrations. It's annoying
| to disable (3+ settings in different ways?) and by default on.
| bartekpacia wrote:
| +1, I don't think such stuff should be ever enabled by default.
| sambeau wrote:
| I like it!
|
| FEATURE REQUEST :)
|
| Would it be possible to have option+click+drag create multiple
| cursors where you drag and not a selection with cursor at the
| end? Basically, the behaviour that Sublime Text has--Sublime
| Text's multiple cursors are, frankly, awesome.
|
| I have found shift+option+drag to create a rectangle, but no way
| to create vertical lines of cursors through lines of text, and my
| favourite--drag down to the right of your code to put cursors at
| the end of every line. I use that all the time: scrape to the
| right hit ctrl+a to get to the start of a line, cut out and
| replace text, ctrl+e to the end, add more text etc. Really useful
| for turning data into code.
|
| Option+click+drag is one of the most useful features of Sublime
| Text and my muscle memory is stuck to it -- to the point where I
| keep Sublime Text around purely for the feature (well, this, the
| fantastic sort/permute lines options, and the live-highlight of
| regex searches that give you instant feedback of whether your
| regex is working correctly). Sublime Text is where I do all my
| data formatting, and where I test every regex before using it in
| my code.
| porsager wrote:
| I think this might be an issue for the same thing:
|
| https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/4352
| cdchn wrote:
| I usually try to get into an IDE from vim every 6 months/year and
| Zed is the first IDE when I actually came close to being
| successful. Usually what kills me with IDEs is distractions,
| things getting in your way, and responsiveness. Zed is the
| "cleanest" IDE I've found so far on many of these points. Not
| totally 100% (pyright being the most prominent annoyance I'm
| trying to turn off right now) but not enough to make it give up
| in just a few hours!
| nathan_phoenix wrote:
| Any pictures of how Zed actually looks? Searched their site and
| couldn't find any...
| Octoth0rpe wrote:
| Their landing page is chock full of screenshots of zed in
| action. Maybe your adblocker rules are causing some false
| positives?
| nathan_phoenix wrote:
| That was it, thanks for the suggestion!
| elashri wrote:
| That's great news. I actually like their zed font [1] which is
| custom-built from Iosevka. [2].
|
| [1] https://github.com/zed-industries/zed-fonts
|
| [2] https://github.com/be5invis/Iosevka
| CharlesW wrote:
| > https://github.com/zed-industries/zed-fonts
|
| Image of Zed Mono for the similarly-curious:
| https://twitter.com/devongovett/status/1672307153699471360
| WalterBright wrote:
| Zed was the name of the Zortech C++ IDE back in the day!
|
| It disappeared, though, because the author (Phil Murray)
| disappeared and we didn't have a license to continue with it when
| Zortech was bought by Symantec.
|
| It's too bad, it was a nice editor. I never was able to find out
| what happened to Phil. He was an excellent programmer, and an all
| around pleasure to work with.
| ahmednazir wrote:
| There are some free code editor but no good free ide.
|
| Jetbrain are the main player and their products are paid. I am
| finding a jetbrain alternative that is free
| asah wrote:
| emacs. Totally free and open source since 1976.
|
| oh, sorry, you asked for an IDE and not an operating system...
| /s
|
| seriously, budget a day or two for the ergonomics and a week
| for wrangling plugins, but some of the most productive
| developers in the world use emacs and they never need to worry
| about vendor issues, porting issues, not having a GUI, support
| for some weird file type, ability to create some funky type of
| macro, etc.
| lgessler wrote:
| I tried to get into emacs a few years ago and just got fed up
| with the incredible regularity with which packages broke
| during routine updates. It was at least an hour a week on
| average, I feel, conducting bug hunts for either minor (this
| or that keybind/function doesn't work) or major (I can't get
| any packages to load) bug hunts. Was I doing something wrong?
| How do emacs people deal with this?
|
| Admittedly, I was using Spacemacs which probably has way more
| packages than a bespoke emacs configuration, but you must
| understand if people get turned off when they ask you how to
| use an editor and your answer is "first, spend a few weeks
| setting it up and understand how each of your many packages
| works".
| philsnow wrote:
| > packages broke during routine updates
|
| > How do emacs people deal with this
|
| The same way anybody working with any package system does,
| by pinning ancient versions and/or just never updating all
| packages, at least for packages that aren't so widely used
| that they pretty much are never broken
| Tomis02 wrote:
| If you have to install plugins then it's not an IDE, it's
| just a text editor.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| I wonder what you'd consider an IDE nowadays. Modern text
| editors do every single thing.
|
| Is it just about the installation format?
| wulfeet wrote:
| Jetbrain does have community editions that are open source.
| tiffanyh wrote:
| > GPL for the editor, AGPL for server-side components). GPUI, the
| UI framework that powers Zed, will be distributed under the
| Apache 2 license, so that you can use it to build high-
| performance desktop applications and distribute them under any
| license you choose
|
| Interesting choice on licenses.
|
| ---
|
| I'm been super happy with Zed, my main requests (and I've sent in
| this feedback to them or contributed to existing GitHub Issues)
|
| a. Window Size & Position doesn't persist after closing Zed.
|
| b. I constantly run into Language Server errors
|
| c. Alabaster use to work as a theme, doesn't anymore. Would be
| great if you could import VSCode themes into Zed
|
| All above has tickets open.
|
| ----
|
| Hope these small things get addressed because I truly love the
| _elegant UI design of Zed_
|
| For those who haven't used Zed, it's the first GUI editor I've
| used in 25-years of development that wasn't distracting.
|
| It's hard to describe how much more focused I am when not
| distracted with a Christmas tree scene of icons, menus, colors,
| etc. like you see in other editors.
|
| Zed is very calming, due to its focus on not having distractions.
| Give it a try if you haven't.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Which GUI editors don't allow you to hide toolbars and widgets?
| Or is it the defaults that appeal to you?
| kefabean wrote:
| I do agree it's very zen using zed.
|
| As you say the interface is elegant and distraction free by
| default, no twiddling required to get a happy place.
|
| So far I've only used it for my personal projects and don't yet
| have full muscle memory, but weirdly even the keyboard
| shortcuts seem more intuitive.
| mcdonje wrote:
| The licensing choice is smart. "Permissive" licenses permit
| closing off something built largely on the work of the open
| source community.
|
| Zed is made by the Atom guy and the Tree Sitter guy. Atom was
| MIT licensed. I wouldn't be surprised if he's thinking the MIT
| license is the path to VS-Zed.
| koolala wrote:
| Is Channels what they call the collaborative component? It isn't
| open sourcing?
| mikaylamaki wrote:
| It has been fully open sourced, you can see the server
| implementation details in the collab crate on our repo!
| sarcasmatwork wrote:
| Looks great, but only OSX :(
|
| I'll stick with vs code for now...
| 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
| I recently went down the rabbit hole on CRDTs and would love to
| know more about what you're using under the hood. Did you roll
| your own?
| mijoharas wrote:
| I looked into that on GitHub earlier because I was curious
| about exactly this, and yes it looks like they did roll their
| own.
| 6gvONxR4sf7o wrote:
| Could you link where you found it? I'm curious what kind they
| made.
| Bnjoroge wrote:
| zed's great but they need to prioritise remote ssh like vscode.
| literally the main way most people do dev
| tbeseda wrote:
| Gonna need a citation on that. I _highly_ doubt most developers
| write code across a secure shell.
| AA-BA-94-2A-56 wrote:
| Huh? I haven't seen remote SSH used in the past few companies
| I've worked at. Usually it's a local docker setup.
| dimgl wrote:
| Almost no one uses remote SSH to do development.
| Evidlo wrote:
| It's how I do it since my workstation has way more resources.
| porsager wrote:
| I'm not sure that claim is correct, but could you describe what
| that setup looks like, and the benefits? A link to something
| more is also fine
| msm_ wrote:
| I have never tried the remote ssh setup (even though vscodium
| is my primary editor). I don't know anyone who uses it daily,
| and I've never heard anyone irl mention doing it. I think
| you're slightly biased here by your experience, and assume
| everyone shares it.
|
| Edit: hell, I've wanted to check remote ssh in vscodium now to
| know what I'm missing, and it looks like they basically contain
| MS DRM and are only compatible with official vscode. License is
| also proprietary[1] and makes it impossible to use it with
| vscodium or other OSS projects. Yikes.
|
| [1]: https://github.com/VSCodium/vscodium/wiki/Extensions-
| Compati...
| asenna wrote:
| Looks awesome. Doesn't support syntax highlighting for Solidity
| yet and from a quick search, I couldn't tell if there's any
| plugin/extension I could install (or how to do it). Any pointers?
| cmrx64 wrote:
| Uses tree-sitter, which you'll need to learn about.
| https://github.com/JoranHonig/tree-sitter-solidity
| vimsee wrote:
| What really impressed me is how fast it changes the theme
| colours.
|
| Locate the little arrow in the top right, click it and then
| select "Theme".
|
| Now use your arrow keys to change the theme and see for yourself.
| :)
| iamnbutler wrote:
| CMD+K->CMD+T can get you there one step quicker!
|
| At least these days we order the themes by dark then light...
| Themes used to be grouped by name, so you would get rainbow
| flashbanged moving down the list!
| Zekio wrote:
| You know the AI craze is real when adding chat gpt-4 to a text
| editor is higher priority than Linux and/or Windows support
| miohtama wrote:
| It's likely that Zed does not want users, or wants specific
| kind of users as this stage of their company maturity.
|
| Mac developer is a proxy for the user type Zed is probably
| aiming to sell service: Western, wealthy, senior. Whileas
| Windows users are everyone and their uncle. Scaling to large
| userbase does not make sense if they are not going to pay for
| your product.
| kristopolous wrote:
| I'm just sour about lack of Linux support, it's like I'm in
| 1998 again except now instead of Microsoft Windows ignoring
| us it's Apple macOS.
|
| A WINE like project for macOS software would be great
| bastawhiz wrote:
| Well it's open source now, so pull requests welcome.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Because if there's one thing Linux needs is a good text
| editor! :-D
| kristopolous wrote:
| What little you know! 2024 is the year of Desktop Linux.
| aseipp wrote:
| Adding Copilot or GPT-4 autocomplete support to an editor is
| not hard. You can find 100 different projects on GitHub that do
| this which are all just calling OpenAI. It is vastly different
| in scope and design than porting native applications.
| haswell wrote:
| In product management parlance, this is low hanging fruit.
|
| Easy to implement and capitalizes on something the market is
| highly interested in at the moment.
|
| Given the concentration of developers who use Macs, and the
| accelerating interest in LLM-assisted coding, this makes a lot
| of sense to me.
|
| And while it may be true that AI is a craze, this is also a
| very real and useful feature grounded in a solid use case that
| has high impact on its users unlike some of the crazes of the
| past that were purely built on hype.
| chme wrote:
| Are really that many developers using Macs?
|
| Maybe I am in a different bubble/country, but most
| professional developers and hobbyist hackers I know have
| either ThinkPads or Framework laptops running Linux or
| sometimes Windows, if they have to.
| haswell wrote:
| 33% according to the latest Stack Overflow developer
| survey. A healthy enough number to focus on that user base.
|
| I do think there are bubbles though. Macs are popular in
| SV, and there's a very healthy portion of the developer
| community focused on this user base.
| Zekio wrote:
| "Given the concentration of developers who use Macs"
|
| fairly certain this is a silicon valley thing, the vast
| majority uses Windows for development and I wouldn't be
| surprised if macOS and linux are pretty even these days
| haswell wrote:
| I think you may be right. This comment was based on 90% of
| the people I interact with using Macs, but those
| interactions are indeed mostly in SV.
|
| In that sense, the "concentration" is in the SV region, and
| may have been a bad choice of word by me when thinking
| about the broader ecosystem.
|
| With that said, macOS enjoys ~33% share in the latest Stack
| Overflow developer survey [0], and I think this illustrates
| the point somewhat. This is a healthy enough portion of the
| market to focus on, especially in the case of implementing
| low hanging fruit.
|
| - [0] https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2023/#overview
| skrebbel wrote:
| I'm a Windows user so I was sad about this but I think their
| reason for doing it like this makes a lot of sense. I'd do the
| same in their shoes, I think.
|
| The explain it in the 6th question on https://zed.dev/faq
| impulser_ wrote:
| You never built a product if this is your honest take.
|
| You should have a focus when you first build a product. You
| shouldn't be holding up your product progress because you don't
| support every platform.
|
| This is the reason why you see a lot of apps support iOS before
| they release an Android app.
|
| It better to build a good working app for one platform than to
| not build one at all because you are spending all your time
| supporting as many platform as possible.
| adamsilkey wrote:
| Does Zed have vim keybindings?
| tuan wrote:
| It does https://docs.zed.dev/general/vim. The support seems
| limited however, for example 'L' or 'H' movement does not seem
| to be supported.
| M4v3R wrote:
| What do you mean? "L" and "H" do move the cursor right and
| left for me just fine. It does not have macro
| recording/playback or extended commands though so it's not a
| full fledged vim emulation mode unfortunately.
| dilyevsky wrote:
| Yeah, it's pretty annoying for any long-time vim user to
| not be able to use the macros, which Zed doesn't support.
| Biggest issue I've had with this editor for sure.
| philsnow wrote:
| This is my problem with all "vim modes"; the 90% of
| bindings that they cover works until your fingers' muscle
| memory wakes back up and tries `gqip` or some other niche
| vim thing.
| tuan wrote:
| That's uppercase L and H to move to bottom or top of the
| screen
| M4v3R wrote:
| Yes, it even asks if you want to use them on first run.
| Cannabat wrote:
| > respond to your keystrokes on the next display refresh
|
| Claimed insertion latency for a keystroke: - zed 58ms - subl 75ms
| - vscode 97ms - clion 83ms
|
| 60 Hz displays refresh once every ~16.6ms. 58ms to insert a
| character is ~3.5 frames. My laptop can do 120 Hz, and other
| monitors can even do 300 Hz.
|
| Yeah, it's a lot faster than the other editors, but 58ms seems
| really slow - definitely not "next display refresh". All of them
| seem really slow.
| AA-BA-94-2A-56 wrote:
| I'm interested to know what people's insertion latency is on
| Neovim with similar IDE-like plugins, and LSP and Copilot
| running.
| Cannabat wrote:
| Same. I'd hope that using LSP and Copilot would not
| meaningfully impact insertion latency, though - I'd expect
| those to be fully async, in a separate thread.
| tiltowait wrote:
| As computers got more complex, latency increased. It's really
| pretty remarkable to see how things have changed over the
| years[1]. I do agree that 58ms seems far outside of the range
| of "next display refresh", however.
|
| [1] https://danluu.com/input-lag/
| Cannabat wrote:
| > These are tests of the latency between a keypress and the
| display of a character in a terminal
|
| Wow, the numbers are entirely unexpected. I want to see the
| latency when you have no display server, having booted
| directly to a shell.
|
| I imagine modern competitive twitch-reflex videogames (fps,
| fighting) must have far less input latency - 100ms must be
| totally unacceptable. Suppose that's the power of a GPU.
| raphlinus wrote:
| Much of that is latency added by the design of modern
| compositors (see "the compositor is evil").
|
| The good-ish news is that as the frame rate goes up, compositor
| latency goes down, as it's usually an integer multiple of frame
| refresh time.
|
| I'm also interested in influencing the design of next gen
| systems to reduce compositor latency, but I'm apparently pretty
| much alone in that interest.
| deadbabe wrote:
| How does it compare to sharing a vim session through tmux with
| multiple users?
| bartekpacia wrote:
| This is awesome news. Thank you very much! I looked at Zed some
| time ago and even though I liked it, it being closed source and
| not very popular didn't make me "trust" that it was gonna last.
| odiroot wrote:
| Zed might be faster but Sublime Text at least runs on Linux, so
| it wins for me.
| Matl wrote:
| Agreed, but once Zed runs on Linux, I'll take an open editor
| over a closed one.
| yvsong wrote:
| Since it's on macOS, are there any Xcode themes?
| robin_reala wrote:
| Really nice and fast (which is the reason I'm still using Sublime
| instead of VS Code). I've only found one piece of functionality
| that's dramatically slow compared to Sublime so far: selecting
| all of the current highlight. In my current file I have 2,396
| occurrences of `<span>`. Selecting all of them in Sublime (with
| ctrl + cmd + g) is certainly less than 200ms. Doing the same in
| Zed (with cmd + shift + l) beachballs my machine for around 5
| secs.
|
| For most code work that's probably not a situation to optimise
| for, but I often work on large markup documents.
| porsager wrote:
| Did you make an issue for that? (I'm sad about that too)
| robin_reala wrote:
| I have now: https://github.com/zed-industries/zed/issues/6440
| satvikpendem wrote:
| Interesting that they don't compare their speed to Vim, as while
| it's not an IDE per se, Vim is still widely used as a code
| editor. It'd be interesting to see the comparison.
| p4ul wrote:
| I am really curious about this, too! From time to time I'll
| switch to using a more full-featured IDE for a while, but I
| always come back to Vim!
| overtomanu wrote:
| Is Java not supported language?
| mi_lk wrote:
| personally hoping Java being prioritized over cross-platform
| imbnwa wrote:
| Yeah noticed that, gotta be way more Java than Go and Rust
| combined in the wild
| jeppester wrote:
| I was hoping that zed, because it was designed from the ground up
| to be a collaborative editor, would allow me to start a dedicated
| server (headless instance) on a development server/container, and
| then let me and my colleague both connect to it and work
| together.
|
| Such functionality would be wildly useful for both remote
| development and pairing, dev containers etc.
|
| Instead I'll have to stick with VS Code remote develop + live
| share, of which the latter feels like a monkey patched
| afterthought.
| AdilZtn wrote:
| Completely agree with you, I think one of key missing feature
| is remote develop
| rmdashrfv wrote:
| I've been following Zed for quite some time now and happy to see
| them follow through with the OSS move.
|
| I personally don't like for my editor to send out any kind of
| external requests at all, and this is actually what keeps me on
| vim as my main editor. I also don't like limited login options
|
| It would be cool to have a version that's just a stripped down
| Zed, and if need be you can install the extra stuff as plugins.
| jscheel wrote:
| No way can I use a text editor that requires the hi-perf discrete
| gfx card. My battery just can't take it. Hope I can get all my
| work done in about 1.5 hours, because that's how long the 2019
| 16" mpb will last with the discrete card running.
| bogwog wrote:
| The homepage has a benchmark that compares Zed's "insertion
| latency" to other editors, and this is the description:
|
| > Open input.rs at the end of line 21 in rust-lang/regex. Type z
| 10 times, measure how long it takes for each z to display since
| hitting the z key.
|
| Could someone clarify what that means? My interpretation of that
| was to go to https://github.com/rust-
| lang/regex/blob/master/regex-cli/arg... and start typing 'z' at
| the end of line 21, but that doesn't seem to make any sense. I
| guess that repo got refactored and those instructions are out of
| date?
| alluro2 wrote:
| They are opening the same specified code file (input.rs) in
| each editor and measuring event/process/highlight/etc pipeline
| duration.
|
| Which is straightforward, but also depends a lot on how each
| editor is configured for Rust support and what functionality
| you are actually getting in that time.
| evmar wrote:
| This looks really nice, but I am confused why the install is over
| 350mb, including a 300mb binary. I thought Electron-based stuff
| was big but this is even somehow more!?
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| It took me _way_ too long to figure out that Zed exclusively runs
| on OSX. Why is that not in the first paragraph of their landing
| page?
|
| edit:
|
| It's not even _on_ the landing page, or even on the about page!
| The landing page has an entire section, "Work with code on any
| machine"!
|
| This is worse than bad.
| totetsu wrote:
| Any Mac'hine.
| dmcgill50 wrote:
| It's at the bottom. Next to the download button
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| Tim Cook is happy
| serial_dev wrote:
| The "Work with code on any machine" is confusing because it's
| not what you expect by glancing over the headlines. In the
| section they describe what they actually meant by it... It
| means that you can collaborate with others who have zed
| installed and run things on their computer, edit code etc.
|
| I vaguely remember them being on the Rust podcast and I believe
| they said that they want multiplatform support but they first
| need to nail it on one platform before they go for the next.
|
| https://rustacean-station.org/episode/antonio-scandurra/
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| That's all good and fine, but it should be immediately
| obvious to anyone who _can 't_ install their software that
| that is the case.
| rapnie wrote:
| Roadmap 2024, Adoption: Unix support
|
| https://zed.dev/roadmap
| kadotus wrote:
| Isn't OSX Unix-based? I'm probably just ignorant, but what
| exactly does this mean? edit: oh you probably meant "Linux
| support" whoops ok
| diem_perdidi wrote:
| I can see "Linux support" though.
| Affric wrote:
| They mean Linux. Linux support is on there.
|
| Mac uses a very different graphic stack.
| petepete wrote:
| It _is_ Unix.
|
| https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/
| registereduser wrote:
| I'm frequently confused when coming across hyperbolic comments
| like these. You can just say: "feedback: make it more clear
| that it currently only supports MacOS". Calling it worse than
| bad is a stretch.
| davidmurdoch wrote:
| It's "worse than bad" because it's just a flat out lie?
| sarlalian wrote:
| It is not a lie, it just doesn't mean exactly what you want
| it to, and is certainly unintentionally misleading. You can
| work with code remotely on any machine.
| davidmurdoch wrote:
| Words have actual meanings.
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| You can't install MacOS any machine. You can't install it
| on _most_ machines. You can install it _exclusively_ on a
| Mac, a hackintosh, or a VM.
|
| I'm not trying to assume or criticize their intentions.
| I'm criticizing their unintentional mistake.
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| I'm expressing an opinion here. It applies as specific
| feedback, sure, but it was also intended for anyone casually
| listening: this is a very generalized problem that I would
| like people to be aware of.
| lolinder wrote:
| This might be bad in its own way, but I saw that the
| screenshots were 100% macOS and immediately assumed that it was
| Mac only and closed the tab. I actually had to go back and look
| because I could have sworn that I saw it written somewhere, but
| no, it was just the screenshots and the general feel of the
| text that clued me in.
|
| I think part of it is that apps that are designed to be multi-
| platform don't tend to use macOS screenshots because maxOS is a
| minority of their users.
| kyawzazaw wrote:
| sounds hyberbolic
| mcpherrinm wrote:
| > Work with code on any machine
|
| This is referring to remote editing support.
|
| Platform support is in their FAQ, but I agree it should be a
| bit clearer on the homepage. Perhaps the download button should
| say "Download for MacOS" or similar.
|
| I do think your comment here is unnecessarily rude.
| behnamoh wrote:
| > Work with code on any machine
|
| > This is referring to remote editing support.
|
| I agree with the OP, I thought it meant Zed was cross
| platform or something.
| tshirttime wrote:
| Because it got you to hear the pitch. People hating on Zed is
| still better than people oblivious to Zed.
| thatxliner wrote:
| The thing about the Zed workflow that I don't understand is local
| servers. Say I were to develop a full-stack web app using some
| frontend meta-framework (e.g., Next.js) and a backend running
| locally for development (e.g., Supabase). How would that workflow
| work with Zed? I need that live preview/reload available to be
| productive. Some sort of feedback loop.
| jamil7 wrote:
| It's a text editor... So you're going to use whatever workflow
| you used before.
| no_wizard wrote:
| isn't it vite / webpack (or some other dev server) running in
| the background with this anyway? Not really something a text
| editor handles usually
| photonbucket wrote:
| How does GPUI compare to other gui libraries?
| philsnow wrote:
| I opened a random python project on my machine in Zed and it
| automatically loaded up an LSP for python. It looks like it's
| using the same one as my emacs uses (pyright), but it presents
| completion choices in a not particularly useful order. Typing
| `os.p` gives me for instance as completion choices:
| pwritev pwrite putenv popen pipe
| path P_ALL P_PID pread pardir
| P_PGID P_WAIT
|
| ... but then I type 'a' and then backspace and it gives some of
| the same choices, but in a different order P_ALL
| path pread pardir P_WAIT [etc]
|
| here's a gif of it, I'm just typing and backspacing through
| "os.path" and watching the completions be in an unguessable
| order:
| https://snap.philsnow.io/2024-01-24T13-57-09.q7pyi8re104uqhn...
|
| Is pyright just giving Zed all the possibilities and it's up to
| Zed to rank them? I don't know the details of editor/LSP
| integration. lsp-whatever in emacs ranks these choices in a
| reasonable order.
| j0e1 wrote:
| Does Zed plan to support extensions/customizations outside of
| themes?
| warthog wrote:
| I really did not need another choice overload complex,
| particularly when it comes to my choice of code editor. Though
| this seems good.
|
| Somebody please tell me what to use. No "depends on what you
| wanna do". Just which one.
|
| Thank you
| kyawzazaw wrote:
| JetBrains
| lantry wrote:
| Yep, JetBrains is the gold standard IMO. If you want
| something that works well for most cases and you don't want
| to think about it, just go with JetBrains. Even their free
| stuff is high quality.
| Solvency wrote:
| Am I alone in thinking the contrast levels on all of their UI
| screenshots is really faint? It's pretty hard on the eyes.
| silcoon wrote:
| Great idea having a Rust editor fully open-source, and I also saw
| the GPUI crate in the codebase. Happy to try it!
|
| P.S. For the first 5 minutes I thought Zed was developed by
| Meta... please change that blue :D
|
| P.S.S: it's incredibly fast, and already has rust-analyzer
| included.
| gigatexal wrote:
| So now that it's open a community effort to get Linux and other
| non-Mac ports of this could be a thing?
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