[HN Gopher] The NSA Furby Documents
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The NSA Furby Documents
        
       Author : gumby
       Score  : 131 points
       Date   : 2024-01-23 17:21 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.404media.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.404media.co)
        
       | itishappy wrote:
       | Now I'm curious if there's any evidence of Furbies actually being
       | used for espionage.
        
         | bragr wrote:
         | Furbies just have a simple microcontroller and the code has
         | been released [1]. It's a clever bit of code to give the
         | impression of intelligence, but it doesn't have anything like
         | the abilities in urban legends. You could put other hardware in
         | them of course, they'd be prime targets for that kind of thing.
         | 
         | [1] https://archive.org/details/furby-source/mode/2up
        
           | wolverine876 wrote:
           | > It's a clever bit of code to give the impression of
           | intelligence
           | 
           | AI hasn't changed.
        
           | masswerk wrote:
           | OMG, it's 6502 code! (Or for some variant of the 6502.)
           | 
           | Marginally interesting, the source uses standard MOS
           | assembler syntax, but Intel-like _xxH_ notation for hex
           | values, rather than _$xx_.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | [Edit] According to Wikipedia, actually a Sunplus SPC81A
           | microcontroller using the 6502 instruction set, but lacking
           | the Y register:
           | 
           | > The first Furby model was based around a 6502-style Sunplus
           | SPC81A microcontroller, which had 80 KiB of ROM and 128 bytes
           | of RAM. Its core differed from the original 6502 in the lack
           | of the Y index register. The TSP50C04 chip from Texas
           | Instruments, implementing the linear predictive coding codec,
           | was used for voice synthesis.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furby
        
         | rarely wrote:
         | it's certainly possible with a modified furby. there could have
         | been a voice recorder placed inside, but that threat seems
         | possible with other toys as well, maybe there was some
         | opportunity due to the popularity of furbys.
         | 
         | in terms of the furby's unmodified hardware capabilities, the
         | microphone was simply used for volume level reaction. reading
         | through the furby's firmware, the mic was used as a peak volume
         | input.
        
         | xsmasher wrote:
         | Probably better to hide your microphone in something that is
         | more commonplace and doesn't already have a security hysteria
         | around it.
        
       | refulgentis wrote:
       | Context: Furbys were _the_ toy for a year or two, and were
       | actively marketed as learning from speech, had an active mic, and
       | did adjust their speech based on what they heard,  "learning" to
       | speak English from Furbish. [^1]
       | 
       | It's not so different from the fundamental fear of
       | Alexa/Assistant/microphones that's fairly well diffused now.
       | 
       | Except the Furby actively claimed to learn how to speak based on
       | your speech, and had a built-in feedback loop to make it appear
       | as such.
       | 
       | In retrospect it looks like it more was "shift mix towards
       | English based on how much you've heard" than "add words you heard
       | to your speech patterns"
       | 
       | [^1]: https://www.listenandlearn.org/blog/no-you-cant-teach-
       | your-f...
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | Many voice assistants _do_ record your voice and send those
         | recordings elsewhere:
         | 
         | e.g.
         | https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html%3FnodeI...
        
           | refulgentis wrote:
           | Absolutely.
           | 
           | Is there a portion of my comment that indicated otherwise? I
           | can still edit it for clarity (I thought that wasn't allowed
           | after a reply occurred)
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | I'm not arguing with you, just adding to the conversation.
             | While the Furby was feared to be recording, but actually
             | wasn't, voice assistants can be a real concern in that they
             | actually do.
        
             | pvg wrote:
             | One of these fears is rational and based on things people
             | know are in fact taking place. The other one is isn't, so
             | drawing the parallel seems iffy. Maybe it's a little closer
             | to the fear your phone is listening to you and that's how
             | you get eerily targeted ads when browsing the web.
        
               | odyssey7 wrote:
               | What makes the two fears fundamentally different?
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | One is the fear of the possible consequences of something
               | you know - with a voice assistant, you know you are being
               | recorded and the recordings are sent somewhere. 'Is furby
               | spying on me' is a vague suspicion but it's not (for most
               | people with the fear) based on any known facts about the
               | furby.
        
               | refulgentis wrote:
               | I don't think you read my comment fully, the Furby thing
               | was real, based on known facts, that were trumpeted by
               | the manufacturer.
               | 
               | The idea the Furby was "[not] real" persisting after
               | reading the comment, is probably why it seemed like I was
               | saying the voice assistants don't record voice.
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | I read the comment and explained why I don't think it's
               | the fear of the same thing. Maybe you didn't read _my_
               | comment fully!
               | 
               | A Furby didn't have the capacity to meaningfully spy on
               | you. You could be afraid that it actually does but it
               | didn't. A voice assistant is already, in a sense,
               | actually spying on you and you know that - the
               | manufacturer tells you upfront. These aren't the same
               | kind of fear.
        
               | refulgentis wrote:
               | The Furby manufacturer told you upfront: - it listened
               | all the time - it learned to speak, word by word, via
               | your speech
               | 
               | The first comment, 10 comments up, was specifically
               | written to provide that context: the Furby manufacturer
               | was up front about spying.
               | 
               | Working with you, and steel-manning your contributions:
               | 
               | - You're trying to explain a distinction you see between
               | local data processing and remote data processing. i.e. a
               | microphone in a room recording you isn't spying, but a
               | microphone with a data connection is "in a sense,
               | actually spying" on you "meaningfully".
               | 
               | - example: "the Furby didn't relay audio data anywhere
               | other than the Furby, and I'd like to point out the voice
               | assistant does - your comment intends to highlight the
               | Furby listened, but it only listened locally. Mentioning
               | voice assistants and using them in an analogy may give a
               | reader the understanding voice assistants process data
               | locally, like Furbys"
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | The Furby came out in 1998. Less than 50% of US homes even
           | owned a computer at the time, let alone had Internet access
           | (and that was usually dialup if they did). Cellular networks
           | were largely voice-only and quite expensive. In short: even
           | if Furbies had some way to record data (which they didn't),
           | there would have been no practical way for them to exfiltrate
           | it.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | > there would have been no practical way for them to
             | exfiltrate it.
             | 
             | Pick it up and carry it? It's not like analog tape
             | recorders are permitted in these places either. All outside
             | recording devices are banned. See the link in the now top-
             | comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39107224
        
             | pnw wrote:
             | Practicality has never been an issue for spies. Look at the
             | lengths the Soviets went to for surveillance.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)
        
               | jabyess wrote:
               | the craziest thing about this is:
               | 
               | > The Thing was designed by Soviet Russian inventor Leon
               | Theremin,[7] best known for his invention of the
               | theremin, an electronic musical instrument.
        
         | yorwba wrote:
         | Of course some people _really_ wanted to teach it to say new
         | things, and figured out how to swap out the audio files (among
         | other modifications): https://github.com/Jeija/bluefluff
         | 
         | Fun fact: If you mess up and need to reset the furby, the
         | procedure is to turn it upside down and hold down the tongue
         | while pulling the tail for ten seconds.
        
           | patrickmay wrote:
           | Instructions unclear. Toddler still not speaking clearly, but
           | appears upset.
        
           | zenolove wrote:
           | > What I have achieved so far
           | 
           | > * Understand large parts of Furby's BLE communication
           | protocol
           | 
           | > * Open a secret debug menu in Furby's LCD eyes
           | 
           | Then I looked at the project logo again and it spooked me out
        
           | folmar wrote:
           | Note that this works for Furby Connect, original Furby had
           | IrDA only.
        
       | swozey wrote:
       | Whats gov policy around Alexas and like half the IOT market? My
       | botvac even has a microphone. I'm sure it's "don't ever speak
       | about outside of this room" sort of thing.
       | 
       | I guess phone calls would be over a secure line. Are there secure
       | cell phone towers/whatever? I'm curious how gov phones are
       | hardened.
        
         | alistairSH wrote:
         | In any SCIF or SCIF-like office space, they're all prohibited.
         | You leave your cell phone at the front door of the secured
         | area.
         | 
         | Internet access is via SIPRNet (for classified) or NIPRNet
         | (non-classified, but secured). Phones are through dedicated
         | secure switchboards.
         | 
         | The above is common in the DC area (lots of DoD contractors).
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | My company infosec training actually advises you don't have
           | voice assistants _or cellphones_ in your work area. They even
           | make light of it in the video:  "I know it sounds crazy, but
           | it's not".
           | 
           | Google and Amazon as the biggest voice assistant makers are,
           | of course, our competitors. But they are competitors to I
           | would say most software companies in some fashion.
        
             | ljf wrote:
             | We have been told that so many times at work, but I know
             | most snr people seem to leave them and their smart watches
             | in listen mode as they occasionally go off in video calls.
        
           | tylerflick wrote:
           | A relative of mine used to work in this space 20 years ago.
           | Seems policies haven't changed at all.
           | 
           | Tangental story about how serious the Gov takes OpSec. When I
           | was in Iraq, a Marine in my unit found a roll of red
           | Classified tape. He thought it would be cool to put a strip
           | on his personal laptop, which was confiscated almost
           | immediately. It was very clearly a personal machine, but
           | policy is policy, and he never got that laptop back.
        
             | alistairSH wrote:
             | Oh yeah, they take it seriously most of the time. But you
             | do get seemingly odd outputs from those procedures. Case in
             | point...
             | 
             | Many years ago, I worked part-time for a small construction
             | cost management contractor. They did some TS work for
             | DoD/State (usually combo projects, where NSA/CIA/Army had a
             | wing of a consulate that State managed).
             | 
             | I did not have a TS (or any other clearance) at the time.
             | One day, I'm tasked with counting the windows and doors in
             | an old hospital in Munich. All the room numbers are
             | Sharpied out in one half of the building.
             | 
             | So, it's pretty obvious "men in black pajamas" are using
             | that wing. I just don't know the room numbers.
             | 
             | Seemed super weird to me that only the numbers were
             | considered secured info. I'm sure there was an explanation.
             | 
             | Years later, a friend-of-a-friend was moving to Munich to
             | do "State Department" work (he was an HVAC contractor with
             | a TS). Off hand, I said "oh, I bet you'll be in wing X,
             | floor Y or Z in the old hospital". He about fell over that
             | somebody in no way associated with his agency would know
             | that. Got a chuckle from me.
        
               | coolspot wrote:
               | Thank you for publishing this info, comrade! Ve arr going
               | to chek all old Munich hospitals.
        
               | alistairSH wrote:
               | It may or may not be in Munich.
               | 
               | Regardless, WikiLeaks already spilled the beans.
        
             | hwillis wrote:
             | > Seems policies haven't changed at all.
             | 
             | Yes and no.
             | 
             | CUI was created: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_U
             | nclassified_Inform...
             | 
             | The number of SCIFs increased a ton, especially in
             | contractors being allowed to have their own SCSI rooms. The
             | number of clearances also went up a lot, and the cycle time
             | on granting a clearance got much faster. Overall some
             | things got relaxed, other things got stricter, scale
             | increased everywhere.
             | 
             | IMO the biggest factor in the increase is just the ever-
             | increasing DoD budget
        
             | px43 wrote:
             | I like this idea of magical red tape that makes things
             | disappear.
             | 
             | Did he test it on any other items?
        
             | akira2501 wrote:
             | > Tangental story about how serious the Gov takes OpSec.
             | 
             | ...and yet, Chelsea Manning walked in with nothing more
             | than a CD player and a self labeled CD-RW and exfiltrated
             | tons of data from a secured facility.
             | 
             | > and he never got that laptop back.
             | 
             | There are several morals to this story.
        
           | miki123211 wrote:
           | I wouldn't be surprised if something like the Apple Vision
           | Pro becomes common in such spaces (and for classified /
           | company-confidential work in general) over the next few
           | years.
           | 
           | I think the combination of biometric authentication with a
           | display that is immune to cameras and shoulder-surfing is
           | really powerful. If the device has anti-screenshot protection
           | and automatically logs the user out when removed from their
           | head, there's virtually no way to quickly transfer sensitive
           | documents out of it.
        
             | l33t7332273 wrote:
             | I would be floored if that happened. SCIFs and cameras are
             | like oil and water.
        
           | nox101 wrote:
           | I wonder how that's going to work in our augmented future.
           | Especially if people replace non-functional eyes and ears
           | with digital ones.
        
           | chatmasta wrote:
           | How strictly are SCIF policies enforced? I'm just a civilian
           | who's never had exposure to that world, but based on my
           | experience with other parts of the government, I'd expect
           | SCIF compliance to fall on a broad spectrum from "sloppy or
           | non-existent" to "overly strict and paranoid." Is my
           | intuition accurate? Who's accountable for the compliance of a
           | given SCIF - can anyone with clearance "setup a SCIF" or does
           | it need to be registered, audited, etc?
        
             | dwheeler wrote:
             | In my experience, they are seriously enforced, though any
             | time you have a large number of people you'll definitely
             | find exceptions. The threat of massive fines and long jail
             | times tends to encourage compliance. Also, many of the
             | people who work in SCIFs _know_ they are dealing with
             | information that, if released, could lead to a number of
             | people getting killed (think intelligence sources) or a
             | country being unable to defend itself because a US weapon
             | system was compromised (think Ukraine). Nation-states _are_
             | working to extract information from SCIFs, it 's not a
             | theoretical problem, and SCIF users know this.
        
             | alistairSH wrote:
             | I don't work in this space, but many of my friends do, as
             | did my father.
             | 
             | SCIF policies are usually strictly enforced. But, that's
             | the most secure workplace available to civilians and they
             | aren't all that common. They also tend to be located in
             | facilities that are higher-than-normal security. Out here
             | in Reston, all my friends who work in SCIFs are also in
             | fenced/gated complexes with paramilitary guards.
             | 
             | There are secure (but not SCIF) facilities that probably
             | vary more. My father's little 6 person contracting office
             | had a secure room, with a Dod approved design and a safe
             | inside, for contracts that required that level of security
             | (State/DoD facilities in China and Russia required TS
             | clearance, other projects varied).
             | 
             | The people that work in SCIFs also generally take it
             | seriously. TS+poly is worth a big chunk of salary here in
             | DC and not something to risk (and that's ignoring that
             | flaunting those laws is a felony for anybody not named
             | Trump). And most believe in the mission (whatever that
             | happens to be). The work spans everything from military
             | hardware to CIA or NSA operations. And a lot of stuff that
             | probably doesn't really need to be TS, but that's a whole
             | other discussion.
        
             | qingcharles wrote:
             | I always remember the posters inside RAF secure spaces that
             | say "IN EVENT OF EMERGENCY, SECURE ALL HARD DRIVES, _THEN_
             | EXIT THE BUILDING. "
        
           | pastword wrote:
           | From a friend who worked in IT work at DIA c. 2000: there
           | were an absurd, non-zero number of researchers with
           | clearances who _surfed for porn_ while on [SN]IPRNet,
           | networks they knew were monitored, and unsurprisingly were
           | caught and lost their careers. _Nonzero._ I 'd posit the
           | reason it continued for so long was the real reasons for
           | termination were kept secret to avoid organizational and
           | political embarrassment but at the expense of not setting an
           | example.
           | 
           | If individuals in this particular demographic are hired but
           | lack self-control and are sexually frustrated, then they're
           | potentially huge liabilities to being recruited by
           | adversaries (MICE). It would seem that before issuing
           | clearances, these factors should be assessed rather than
           | going through a standard clipboard audit by the FBI. And,
           | while holding clearances, positive socialization
           | opportunities should be encouraged if not artfully arranged.
           | Who's ever going to leave a job or be disloyal when your boss
           | or some coworkers expedite the love lives of those who aren't
           | already full in that regard? This implies fostering a layer
           | of socially astute managers. It would be a radical departure
           | for government culture perhaps, but a necessary one to ensure
           | the integrity and stability of a clandestine community.
           | Happiness isn't just recognition or sufficient autonomy, but
           | total happiness beyond work. (Throw away the "work-life
           | balance" cliche that is tired and paid lip-service to.)
        
         | nonameiguess wrote:
         | It's actually more restrictive than the sibling makes it sound.
         | A SCIF can't have any radio-transmitting device, recording
         | device, or storage media without special approval. Computers
         | hooked up to classified networks can't have USB ports. Even
         | medical devices are case by case. My wife requires hearing aids
         | and needed them to be analyzed and approved by a security team
         | before she could bring them in. Pacemakers require approval.
         | 
         | The phones and networks are hardened by being their own
         | separate network from public networks. The lines are all buried
         | and protected and utilize hardware-encrypted point to point
         | tunnels to merge with public backbone fiber. I've told an
         | anecdote here many times of working at a facility where AT&T
         | contractors dug too close to a JWICS fiber cable and had an
         | unmarked black SUV show up in minutes to confiscate all of
         | their gear and question them.
         | 
         | Keep in mind the military has been encrypting radio traffic
         | over hostile territory for a century, so they don't even
         | necessarily require the lines themselves to be physically
         | secure as long as the endpoint devices are. Encryption keys are
         | loaded from hardware random number generators that are synced
         | manually on some rotating basis determined by local command or
         | national policy, depending on the intended reach of the comms
         | device. The NSA has something called a key management
         | infrastructure for the wide-area computer net that replaced the
         | legacy system a few years ago that is similar to PKI, but keys
         | are only issued in-person and stored on unnetworked hardware
         | key loaders that are kept in locked arms rooms on military
         | installations (or with deployed units). There is, of course,
         | also a DoD and IC PKI so they can still use develop and use
         | regular web applications and browsers, but it is also more
         | restrictive than regular PKI. Everything requires client certs
         | and mutual TLS and you need to be personally sponsored to get
         | your personal certificates.
         | 
         | It's actually really cool the way the JWICS websites work
         | because your client cert provides an identity that is linked to
         | your sponsoring agency's clearance database and web apps
         | automatically redact content on the server side that you are
         | not cleared to see. It's possible I'm making up memories but I
         | _think_ I 've seen at least a few cases where some applications
         | can do this inside of a single page, but typically you get a
         | denial for an entire application if you're not cleared for the
         | highest level data it provides.
         | 
         | I almost hate to say it because it's antithetical to the
         | Internet and Hacker News ethos, but it's a testament to how
         | well networked applications _could_ work with a central
         | authority and no anonymity. You don 't need passwords. Accounts
         | are provisioned automatically. SSO is global to the entire
         | network. You only need one identity. But no, your office can't
         | have Alexa.
        
           | mhink wrote:
           | > I almost hate to say it because it's antithetical to the
           | Internet and Hacker News ethos, but it's a testament to how
           | well networked applications could work with a central
           | authority and no anonymity. You don't need passwords.
           | Accounts are provisioned automatically. SSO is global to the
           | entire network. You only need one identity. But no, your
           | office can't have Alexa.
           | 
           | I don't think it's necessarily a dealbreaker if you consider
           | this: from a purely technical standpoint, there's nothing
           | really stopping anyone from setting up a certificate
           | authority- the only issue is getting service providers to
           | trust it enough to accept those client certs as sufficient
           | identification. I could easily imagine a world where I
           | receive an "official" client cert from a government (which I
           | can use to thoroughly prove my identity if needed) as well as
           | several "pseudonymous" certs from various other CAs that I
           | may use from time to time.
           | 
           | The main difference between CAs would be the kind of
           | attestations they provide for a given certificate holder. For
           | example, I could imagine a CA which (for example) is set up
           | to attest that any holder of a certificate signed by them is
           | a medical doctor, but will not (by policy) divulge any
           | additional information.
           | 
           | Or perhaps a CA which acts as a judge of good character- they
           | may issue pseudonymous or anonymous certs, but provide a way
           | for application owners to complain about the behavior of a
           | user presenting that cert.
           | 
           | I'm sure there are plenty of holes that can be poked in this
           | model but I don't think it'd be completely out of the
           | question?
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | There is an entire industry for secure phones. Many have to be
         | "unlocked" before dialing other secure phones. It isnt simple.
         | Getting a normal phone line to passively carry an encrypted
         | call is a bit of a hack.
        
           | dTal wrote:
           | A hack? The entire point of encryption is to permit messages
           | to be sent over insecure channels, no?
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | The hack is getting the unsecure system not to damage your
             | encrypted signal, to carry even though it is expecting
             | plain voice talking rather than a stream of binary digits.
        
               | CrazyStat wrote:
               | We've been doing that for dialup internet for decades.
        
               | richardwhiuk wrote:
               | Dialup actively co-operates with the telephone system -
               | e.g. the screeching at the start is designed to disable
               | echo cancellers and other such mechanisms.
        
               | arpa wrote:
               | POTS didn't have an opus audio codec.
        
               | sandworm101 wrote:
               | Dialup doesn't work over every phone line, especially
               | over sat voice lines.
        
           | hiatus wrote:
           | > It isnt simple. Getting a normal phone line to passively
           | carry an encrypted call is a bit of a hack.
           | 
           | How so? It would seem fairly trivial considering we have ways
           | of sending data over phone lines as sound for decades.
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | Because the signal transmitted over normal phones has to be
             | encrypted. That encrypted signal will then be
             | digitized/compressed by the standard phone line. Any
             | artifacts in the phone line digitization might turn the
             | encrypted signal into gibberish. Its like compressing a
             | jpeg too many times. So you need an encryption method that
             | isnt simple digitization. You need something that is
             | encrypted but essentially sounds like human speech so that
             | the digitization/compression process does not damage it.
             | 
             | https://gdmissionsystems.com/products/encryption/secure-
             | voic...
             | 
             | https://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/gd/viper/
        
       | Pwntastic wrote:
       | The FOIA documents are up on archive.org now:
       | https://archive.org/details/nsa-furby-memo/
       | 
       | I'm amused at page 8 of the listserve doc, in which someone
       | points out that the ongoing discussion may at some point be
       | released to the public under FOIA and to consider how it might
       | look after showing up on the front page of a news site
        
         | j-wags wrote:
         | It's interesting to see how quickly the norms around
         | cybersecurity changed. In 1999 the NSA was worried about
         | avoiding ridicule for banning simple electronics in secure
         | areas. In 2010 Stuxnet was introduced via simple electronics
         | into a secure area and set back the Iranian nuclear program by
         | several years.
         | 
         | Some of the people receiving these furby emails were probably
         | already conceiving of (or actively working on) Stuxnet-like
         | capabilities. Maybe a future FOIA request will reveal several
         | teams quietly emailing up the org chart to absolutely not relax
         | the rule for furbies.
        
           | wolverine876 wrote:
           | NSA is a military agency; their norm has always been to
           | protect US assets and attack others.
        
             | halJordan wrote:
             | The NSA is not a military agency. It is within the dod, it
             | provides combat support. But it is emphatically not a
             | military agency.
        
               | crmd wrote:
               | Emphatically? The director of the NSA is required to be a
               | four star general and concurrently serves as commander of
               | US Cyber Command. Ostensibly non-military, perhaps.
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | It is no more a military agency than NASA or the USGS.
             | Having military customers doesn't make an agency or company
             | part of that military.
        
           | gnfargbl wrote:
           | NSA dealt with cases of espionage via the introduction of
           | simple electronics into secure areas decades before [1] [2],
           | so awareness of the risk was likely widespread.
           | 
           | The issue here seems to have been that in 1999, it was a
           | relative novelty for random consumer devices to have a
           | recording functionality. Hard to imagine now, but there we
           | are.
           | 
           | [1]
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)
           | 
           | [2]
           | https://www.cryptomuseum.com/covert/bugs/selectric/index.htm
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | _> in 1999, it was a relative novelty for random consumer
             | devices to have a recording functionality. Hard to imagine
             | now, but there we are._
             | 
             | For added context, the plot of the corny movie _Charlie 's
             | Angels_ from the year 2000, was about stopping an evil guy
             | from using some evil software he developed to ... track
             | people using their cellphones.
             | 
             | Who knew that only 10 years later we'd be doing that
             | voluntarily.
        
           | halJordan wrote:
           | Wikipedia claims the nsa's active cyber mission
           | (anachronistic terminology ) was up and running from as early
           | as 1997, so there were definitely people having those
           | thoughts and working those capabilities. And we're totally
           | ignoring people like Markus Hess in the 80s. Thank you for
           | taking the time to add perspective to the knee jerk
           | reactions.
        
         | jdewerd wrote:
         | They wanted to avoid FURBYGATE. They avoided FURBYGATE. Sounds
         | reasonable to me!
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | Right. The whole email thread seems very reasonable to me.
           | TFA characterizing this as "freaking out" is nonsense.
        
         | kotaKat wrote:
         | Yep. Who would have guessed 25 years later I'd be bored and
         | then a year later this packet showed up at my doorstep? It's
         | oddly perfect timing, around all the AI discourse. :)
        
           | 0xEF wrote:
           | I'm surprised it only took them a year. Would you care to
           | share more about your experience on filing FOIA? The circles
           | I run in seem to view it as a clunky, bloated process, but I
           | feel like it has gotten better than when it was introduced. I
           | have zero first-hand experience, though.
        
             | kotaKat wrote:
             | No problem to help, but bad news: Every government agency
             | has different processes. You'll have to go through their
             | own FOIA office.
             | 
             | The NSA FOIA form is actually really easy:
             | https://www.nsa.gov/about/contact-us/Submit-a-FOIA-Request/
             | 
             | I simply asked for what I wanted (information about policy
             | memos about 'Furby Alerts' and recording devices at the NSA
             | from late 1998 to early 1999) and submitted the form. About
             | a month later I got a response back from the NSA
             | acknowledging they got my request, and located records that
             | were part of another FOIA request being processed as well,
             | so I'd get those documents as well once released.
             | 
             | And then... yesterday afternoon I got the message "hey what
             | did you get from the DoD?" - bewildered, sending me a photo
             | of the cover (in the full article). They finally delivered,
             | and I hastily scanned my spoils for everyone. :)
        
               | qingcharles wrote:
               | And to piggyback on your comment. State FOIA is a
               | different beast to federal FOIA. Lots of states have much
               | tighter timelines. Illinois requires the government body
               | to respond with the records within 5 business days.
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | I need to redo my FOIA request [0]. I was investigated by the
           | Secret Service in 1996 as they thought I intended to
           | assassinate President Clinton. This was down to me selling a
           | selling a shell account on a Linux server to someone, who in
           | retrospect, might have had fundamentalist ideals and that
           | person sending a detailed email to the White House outlining
           | their plot, from my domain.
           | 
           | I always wanted to see the chain of events that led to the
           | Special Branch turning up on my door step in England.
           | 
           | [0] I FOIA'd this a couple of years back, but I changed
           | address and never got the documents, only a letter to say it
           | was being worked on.
        
       | aerostable_slug wrote:
       | Years ago, I used to see low quality sun-faded warnings printed
       | from color inkjets about Furby on entries to NNSA secure spaces.
       | I hadn't thought about that little fellow in the longest time...
       | 
       | I'm guessing there are still a few taped up in various Labs at
       | less-used portals.
        
       | itomato wrote:
       | Tell us more about these IRC channels responsive to FOIA request
        
       | n4jm4 wrote:
       | Analysis is fun, but any device with a microphone or camera
       | represents a security risk for sensitive environments... Fropies.
        
       | cush wrote:
       | Pretty sure this was a Simpsons episode
        
         | px43 wrote:
         | The Simpsons episode was referencing the media frenzy when this
         | happened in 1999.
        
       | 1oooqooq wrote:
       | these are the caliber of the American praetorian guard who owns
       | our politicians.
        
         | CamperBob2 wrote:
         | Eh, I don't see anything inappropriate in these documents. If
         | they seem overly paranoid, it's because some major security
         | breaches have historically involved silly things like this.
         | Where do you draw the line between a Furby and a Casio SK-1 and
         | a Teddy Ruxpin and a Minidisc recorder and any number of other
         | stateful gadgets of the day, especially when the Furby is brand
         | new and nobody really knows what's inside it?
         | 
         | The NSA is an intelligence agency. The NSA doesn't want people
         | bringing things in that might have the ability to exfiltrate
         | voices or other signals, and in any event the NSA doesn't want
         | random employees talking about it to the press. Where's the
         | element of surprise here? I don't understand why it was even
         | newsworthy in the first place.
         | 
         | As for the intelligence agencies "owning our politicians," LOL.
         | If there were the slightest truth to that, Trump's headstone
         | would read "1946-2016."
        
       | nickaflip wrote:
       | I used to like reading 404, but they need to chill out on posting
       | articles about porn.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | Note that this was several years after _performance artists_ (not
       | even state-level actors) had demonstrated compromising toys
       | retail supply chain with hacked firmware.
       | https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/547659/barbie-liberation...
       | 
       | So, look of concern at whomever thought it was a good idea to
       | bring an effectively blackbox electronic device with a microphone
       | into a secure area where those were prohibited. Kudos to whomever
       | raised the issue.
       | 
       | Someone should've done a proof of concept mod (firmware or
       | hardware) of a Trojan Furby to appear (to visual and X-ray
       | inspection) to have the stock hardware, but do something
       | nefarious. Or shown how, say, the stock Furby hardware and
       | firmware turned sound into RF leakage.
        
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