[HN Gopher] The horse, the drone, and the fight for gambling suc...
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       The horse, the drone, and the fight for gambling success (2021)
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 20 points
       Date   : 2024-01-23 16:50 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wired.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.co.uk)
        
       | bri3d wrote:
       | (2021) - this is part of a broader attempt at arbitrage in horse
       | racing by front-running broadcast delays to give an edge on "in-
       | play" (real time) betting. Drones are cheaper and more efficient
       | than sending staff to sit trackside at every event ("court
       | siding") and don't come with as much risk of getting banned from
       | the event.
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | Can they really stop you from sitting trackside and phoning in
         | results on your cell?
        
           | joosters wrote:
           | They can't stop you doing that, and I've been to races years
           | ago where people were on their mobile bellowing out a horse
           | number to their mate on the other end, who is sitting ready
           | to place a bet on the supposed winner. But that's not a very
           | fine-grained way to bet, it relies on the person on the track
           | getting things exactly right and having the correct viewing
           | position at the critical moment.
           | 
           | However, people courtsiding in tennis matches have been
           | kicked out - and in some places, they've tried arresting
           | them: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32402945
        
           | bri3d wrote:
           | Can they stop you? No. If they catch you (usually doing
           | something more large-scale and real time, like having a
           | camera pointed at the track), can they ban you? Yes, they can
           | certainly try.
           | 
           | It's sort of a cat-and-mouse game. I think this is the fun of
           | in-play betting for some people. At the individual level, you
           | organize your friends with a cell or have the guy who knows
           | the guy at the race and it makes you and feel like you have
           | an edge against the other bettors and the house odds. Of
           | course you don't, really, just like most gambling. At the
           | larger scale it's old school time arbitrage, HFT style stuff.
           | At that point it's about trying to have the best strategy and
           | shave time off of whatever your opponents are doing.
        
             | justin66 wrote:
             | Honest question from someone who's less familiar: why would
             | the track even care? Rather than surveilling the track for
             | violators, can't they stop taking bets prior to the start
             | of the race? And having done that, why would they care what
             | happens off track, to someone else's betting operation?
        
               | reidjs wrote:
               | Either security theatre, it makes the naive gambler think
               | they have an edge so they bet more, or they have vested
               | interest/stake in offsite betting platforms
        
               | dfxm12 wrote:
               | _why would the track even care?_ ... _why would they care
               | what happens off track, to someone else 's betting
               | operation?_
               | 
               | The track exists, more or less, because of betting, and
               | not just at the track. At least someone sees it as a
               | threat to betting: "[Barry Orr, Betfair's head of racing
               | PR] worries that the imbalance in information across
               | different bettors could lead to the demise of gambling on
               | horse racing." If this is a legitimate concern, then it
               | is in the track's best interest to make people think
               | everyone has equal info, or else people will stop
               | betting: "Martin Hughes, a longtime gambler based in the
               | northeast of England who is a member of the Horseracing
               | Bettors' Forum, a voluntary body of gamblers, "I more or
               | less stopped betting, because I'm so far behind it is
               | pointless, really.""
               | 
               |  _Rather than surveilling the track for violators, can 't
               | they stop taking bets prior to the start of the race?_
               | 
               | Well, that would make them less money.
        
       | karaterobot wrote:
       | I don't understand why you'd need drone footage to do this. If
       | the purpose of the drone is to give you live footage of the race
       | to update your bet, wouldn't a cell phone let you do the same
       | thing from a seat in the stands? Obviously not, and I'm missing
       | something, but I didn't get it from the article. Is it that he's
       | making money by providing an alternate feed of the race to other
       | gamblers, not from placing bets himself?
        
         | joosters wrote:
         | 1. You won't get as good and clear view from the stands, and
         | the betting is going on throughout the race, not just at the
         | end where you might have a clear-ish view. You could sit in the
         | stands and point your phone at the big screen TVs showing the
         | race to the crowd, but that stream is delayed somewhat anyway,
         | losing you some advantage.
         | 
         | 2. He might be selling the footage, but doesn't want to admit
         | to doing so (since that would be more likely to get him into
         | trouble)
        
       | joosters wrote:
       | One angle that isn't mentioned in the article is that there are
       | companies that now stream live GNSS/GPS data from horse races, so
       | the drone users are competing against 'official' feeds of in-
       | running data, e.g. https://www.totalperformancedata.com/
       | 
       | This is a clever move from the racetracks: they can sell this
       | data, there are customers for it, and it saves them from
       | fruitlessly trying to stop the drones.
       | 
       | However, the data is expensive, and if you are buying it then you
       | are going to be competing against the other buyers of it, who
       | will be trying to place the same bets as you, so the edge isn't
       | going to be too great. Kind of like HFT, where everyone races to
       | keep up with the technology spending of their competitors.
        
       | hackton wrote:
       | According to the article, they are betting on Betfair. When the
       | race starts, you have a delay in placing new bets (5-10 seconds)
       | but no delay in cancelling bets. Given they are ahead of the
       | official live feed by just few seconds, it should leave enough
       | time for a misplaced bet to be cancelled before they can take it.
       | I am quite surprised they have an edge here, I might miss
       | something.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-23 23:01 UTC)