[HN Gopher] The horse, the drone, and the fight for gambling suc...
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The horse, the drone, and the fight for gambling success (2021)
Author : PaulHoule
Score : 20 points
Date : 2024-01-23 16:50 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wired.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.co.uk)
| bri3d wrote:
| (2021) - this is part of a broader attempt at arbitrage in horse
| racing by front-running broadcast delays to give an edge on "in-
| play" (real time) betting. Drones are cheaper and more efficient
| than sending staff to sit trackside at every event ("court
| siding") and don't come with as much risk of getting banned from
| the event.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Can they really stop you from sitting trackside and phoning in
| results on your cell?
| joosters wrote:
| They can't stop you doing that, and I've been to races years
| ago where people were on their mobile bellowing out a horse
| number to their mate on the other end, who is sitting ready
| to place a bet on the supposed winner. But that's not a very
| fine-grained way to bet, it relies on the person on the track
| getting things exactly right and having the correct viewing
| position at the critical moment.
|
| However, people courtsiding in tennis matches have been
| kicked out - and in some places, they've tried arresting
| them: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-32402945
| bri3d wrote:
| Can they stop you? No. If they catch you (usually doing
| something more large-scale and real time, like having a
| camera pointed at the track), can they ban you? Yes, they can
| certainly try.
|
| It's sort of a cat-and-mouse game. I think this is the fun of
| in-play betting for some people. At the individual level, you
| organize your friends with a cell or have the guy who knows
| the guy at the race and it makes you and feel like you have
| an edge against the other bettors and the house odds. Of
| course you don't, really, just like most gambling. At the
| larger scale it's old school time arbitrage, HFT style stuff.
| At that point it's about trying to have the best strategy and
| shave time off of whatever your opponents are doing.
| justin66 wrote:
| Honest question from someone who's less familiar: why would
| the track even care? Rather than surveilling the track for
| violators, can't they stop taking bets prior to the start
| of the race? And having done that, why would they care what
| happens off track, to someone else's betting operation?
| reidjs wrote:
| Either security theatre, it makes the naive gambler think
| they have an edge so they bet more, or they have vested
| interest/stake in offsite betting platforms
| dfxm12 wrote:
| _why would the track even care?_ ... _why would they care
| what happens off track, to someone else 's betting
| operation?_
|
| The track exists, more or less, because of betting, and
| not just at the track. At least someone sees it as a
| threat to betting: "[Barry Orr, Betfair's head of racing
| PR] worries that the imbalance in information across
| different bettors could lead to the demise of gambling on
| horse racing." If this is a legitimate concern, then it
| is in the track's best interest to make people think
| everyone has equal info, or else people will stop
| betting: "Martin Hughes, a longtime gambler based in the
| northeast of England who is a member of the Horseracing
| Bettors' Forum, a voluntary body of gamblers, "I more or
| less stopped betting, because I'm so far behind it is
| pointless, really.""
|
| _Rather than surveilling the track for violators, can 't
| they stop taking bets prior to the start of the race?_
|
| Well, that would make them less money.
| karaterobot wrote:
| I don't understand why you'd need drone footage to do this. If
| the purpose of the drone is to give you live footage of the race
| to update your bet, wouldn't a cell phone let you do the same
| thing from a seat in the stands? Obviously not, and I'm missing
| something, but I didn't get it from the article. Is it that he's
| making money by providing an alternate feed of the race to other
| gamblers, not from placing bets himself?
| joosters wrote:
| 1. You won't get as good and clear view from the stands, and
| the betting is going on throughout the race, not just at the
| end where you might have a clear-ish view. You could sit in the
| stands and point your phone at the big screen TVs showing the
| race to the crowd, but that stream is delayed somewhat anyway,
| losing you some advantage.
|
| 2. He might be selling the footage, but doesn't want to admit
| to doing so (since that would be more likely to get him into
| trouble)
| joosters wrote:
| One angle that isn't mentioned in the article is that there are
| companies that now stream live GNSS/GPS data from horse races, so
| the drone users are competing against 'official' feeds of in-
| running data, e.g. https://www.totalperformancedata.com/
|
| This is a clever move from the racetracks: they can sell this
| data, there are customers for it, and it saves them from
| fruitlessly trying to stop the drones.
|
| However, the data is expensive, and if you are buying it then you
| are going to be competing against the other buyers of it, who
| will be trying to place the same bets as you, so the edge isn't
| going to be too great. Kind of like HFT, where everyone races to
| keep up with the technology spending of their competitors.
| hackton wrote:
| According to the article, they are betting on Betfair. When the
| race starts, you have a delay in placing new bets (5-10 seconds)
| but no delay in cancelling bets. Given they are ahead of the
| official live feed by just few seconds, it should leave enough
| time for a misplaced bet to be cancelled before they can take it.
| I am quite surprised they have an edge here, I might miss
| something.
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