[HN Gopher] My toddler still loves planes, so I upgraded her radar
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       My toddler still loves planes, so I upgraded her radar
        
       Author : jakey_bakey
       Score  : 329 points
       Date   : 2024-01-22 19:38 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (jacobbartlett.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (jacobbartlett.substack.com)
        
       | martinky24 wrote:
       | Maybe this is pedantic -- Did you build a radar, or did you build
       | a wrapper around an ADS-B API?
       | 
       | I clicked this thinking, "Wow! Radars are hard. Building one at
       | home would be quite the feat!", but this appears to just be a
       | wrapper around an ADS-B data providing service? Not even reading
       | the ADS-B data over the air on one's own at home?
       | 
       | Calling this a radar, vs saying "I build a nice GUI around ADS-B
       | data", are two very different things! The latter is a fun side
       | project at home, but it's a couple orders of magnitude easier
       | than the former!
        
         | elSidCampeador wrote:
         | FYI, discussion on part 1 here -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38435908
        
           | jakey_bakey wrote:
           | Doing God's work!
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | You are taking this too seriously and the answer can be found
         | in the blog post.
         | 
         | It's clearly a dad-daughter fun project and the toddler is more
         | likely calling it a "Radar" and not "Can I play with the ADS-B
         | API Wrapper?" which is the spirit of the whole post and app.
        
         | anotherhue wrote:
         | Listen, if you think handing a kid a cavity magnetron and the
         | multi-kilowatt power supply to drive it ON TOP of a high-
         | voltage CRT display is a good idea -- then I really want to
         | know how it goes.
        
           | jakey_bakey wrote:
           | "Back in my day..."
        
           | nomel wrote:
           | Well, obviously that part would be on the roof, and you would
           | hand the kid something that would, to them, be
           | indistinguishable from the API approach, all as you nervously
           | wait for authorities, from the nearby military base, to come
           | check your intentions.
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | I know at least three people who are nuts, skilled and
           | moneyed enough to actually build a legit radar system -
           | they're all hams. Only problem I think would be getting a
           | license to transmit on radar frequencies...
        
           | seabass-labrax wrote:
           | As someone who grew up around (literally stacks of) analogue
           | equipment, I feel that it's worth noting that there's nothing
           | particularly unsafe about high voltages when they're properly
           | contained. The dielectric strength of air is sufficiently
           | high that you effectively need to be touching the conductor
           | before it will arc. At that point, there's not a terrible
           | amount of different between touching a live 240V AC terminal
           | (the standard where I live and in most of the world) and a
           | live 2000V AC terminal. I'm definitely not suggesting that
           | one should be cavalier about high voltages, just pointing out
           | that _electrocution_ wasn 't a big problem in practice for
           | most of the time when these older devices were used.
           | 
           | There several more pressing safety issues with analogue
           | equipment than simple electrocution:
           | 
           | - Fire risk due to the much greater energy consumption of
           | older discrete components. Even the passive losses when in
           | standby are considerable; the need for heatsinks is a given,
           | and ventilation is critical.
           | 
           | - Explosion (actually implosion) risk of vacuum
           | tubes/thermionic valves. There are a surprising number of
           | videos online of people deliberately destroying TVs with
           | overvoltage, but suffice it to say that you do not want one
           | plugged into the mains during a thunderstorm.
           | 
           | - Physical injury. Not really the fault of the technology
           | _per se_ , but it can be easy to forget just how physically
           | light modern equipment is. You can hurt yourself by trying to
           | move older devices. Having the equipment fall on them is
           | probably the biggest risk to a toddler who's not actually
           | trying to take the device apart.
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | But consider this: there may be an electrical engineer reading
         | the article right now thinking "damn, apps are hard, building
         | one at home is quite the feat!"
        
           | phkahler wrote:
           | One of the GNU radio guys built an actual passive radar quite
           | some years ago. I could see someone with that background
           | looking at phone app development and scratching their head
           | ;-)
        
         | glitchc wrote:
         | In the aviation industry the secondary surveillance radar
         | (SSR), as it's called, passively interrogates transmitting air
         | traffic in ATC's airspace (1090 MHz ADS-B and 978 MHz UAT).
         | It's not the primary radar, which is active radar and what most
         | people think of when they hear radar. It's a terminology issue
         | which we're stuck with now given that SSR is part of the
         | nomenclature.
         | 
         | The SSR receiver is usually a long conic rotating dish, the
         | length provides lateral isolation, as the dish itself is tilted
         | up to match the runway glideslope (inbound and outbound track
         | for most transmitting aircraft).
         | 
         | The SSR can receive information well beyond the range of the
         | primary radar. For an air traffic controller, a commercial
         | aircraft shows up on the SSR first, and can be directed right
         | away. The primary radar mainly catches anomalous behaviour,
         | foreign objects and GA aircraft that may not be equipped with
         | UAT.
        
           | namibj wrote:
           | Ehh, secondary radar is still radar. Swapping the passive
           | reflector for a preamble/header triggered gated (after header
           | received, active for some short duration) non-passive echo,
           | doesn't negate the way of "send radio wave, receive echo,
           | measure latency/delay, divide by twice light speed, get
           | distance".
        
         | tivert wrote:
         | > Maybe this is pedantic -- Did you build a radar, or did you
         | build a wrapper around an ADS-B API?
         | 
         | To a toddler, it's all the same.
        
           | ryanisnan wrote:
           | I don't know of any toddlers reading Hacker News.
        
             | tivert wrote:
             | > I don't know of any toddlers reading Hacker News.
             | 
             | You're right, but the thing was made for a toddler and the
             | "radar" label was probably made for them.
             | 
             | Honestly, "radar" is probably the clearest label for
             | something like this for _all people_ who don 't know what
             | ADS-B and RTL-SDR mean (which is probably 99% of all
             | people, period).
        
               | ryanisnan wrote:
               | I wouldn't have any issue if it were worded "radar", with
               | quotes. That implies a likeness, but denotes a lack of
               | precision.
               | 
               | And I think there are more avnerds on here than you would
               | expect!
        
         | ryanisnan wrote:
         | I don't understand why you're being downvoted. You are correct.
         | 
         | I also don't think you are being pedantic. This is a forum
         | where technology is often the topic of discussion, and in tech
         | words often have very specific meanings. Like radar.
         | 
         | No slight whatsoever to the original author, I liked the post,
         | and applaud their work :)
         | 
         | I just don't get the downvoting nature of some of the folks
         | here. This isn't reddit.
        
           | wglb wrote:
           | Downvoting likely signals disagreement as well as
           | disapproval.
        
       | liquidise wrote:
       | This is a follow-up to a rather popular post from a couple months
       | ago[0].
       | 
       | 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38435908 _My toddler
       | loves planes, so I built her a radar_ (1304 points, 56 days ago)
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | Aw, shucks :)
        
       | gridspy wrote:
       | Nice one. I'm glad you're still pleasing your user base.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | for the rest of his days probably
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | Well, I am back to pleasing them after a brief 5-week
         | production incident :)
        
       | jshchnz wrote:
       | Good job on definitely making your most important user happy :)
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | :)
        
       | mschuster91 wrote:
       | Awesome!
       | 
       | Side note, I'm tempted to place a !remindme in 18 years to check
       | if your daughter managed to pass her flight control exams ;)
        
         | mulmen wrote:
         | She's 2 and can get a student pilot license at 16 so set a
         | reminder in 14 years.
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | Do we get free flights if our daughter is a pilot? Maybe we're
         | missing a trick nudging her into STEM
        
           | fragmede wrote:
           | there's a whole buddy pass system for friends/family of
           | airline crew. short answer: yes, but.
        
       | UberFly wrote:
       | This is cute and touching. I'm jealous. I miss it when my
       | daughters were this age. Awesome work dad.
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | Thank you :) I suppose the grass is always greener, right? I'm
         | simultaneously at the (irrational) age where I'm missing the
         | baby stage and excited for her to learn to play video games
         | with me
        
           | shermantanktop wrote:
           | You'll never stop missing the baby stage.
           | 
           | The entire period from 3 months to around 5-6 is magical -
           | they are seeing new things, trying new things, learning at a
           | voracious rate, and constantly surprising you. They are still
           | great after that but they are more on their path to who they
           | will become, and mom and dad of course become a little less
           | cool.
           | 
           | Mine are grown and are wonderful people, but I can't tell you
           | what I would give to go back and spend a day at the park with
           | them at 3-4 years old.
        
             | willsmith72 wrote:
             | cue the grandchildren
        
             | methyl wrote:
             | Your mileage may vary. I don't miss this age at all, at 3-6
             | months a baby is not much more than a moving blob. I enjoy
             | it now way more at the age of three.
        
               | shermantanktop wrote:
               | I have the benefit/drawback of hindsight from years
               | later. Before 3ish months, I'm with you - it's the
               | "fourth trimester." May depend on the kid too. Mine were
               | relatively calm and quiet, but there were some <1y babies
               | that I met who appeared to scream and cry every waking
               | moment.
        
       | lesmond wrote:
       | I am the co-founder of Planefinder.net. We've been tracking
       | aircraft since 2009.
       | 
       | Good work!
       | 
       | Love it!
        
         | delichon wrote:
         | My house is below a rural MOA airspace and occasionally gets
         | buzzed by extremely low flying military aircraft. It can be
         | window rattling, ground shaking and heart rate elevating. Do
         | you know of a way I can get an alert even a little bit before
         | that happens? Is it theoretically build-able with existing
         | data?
        
       | Logans_Run wrote:
       | Who here in the HN crowd would be up for porting this to Android
       | as a sort of open-source crowdsource project? Any takers? At a
       | guess (about licensing) I would say that whoever sets up the
       | initial GH repo uses this quote from the author " waiting for an
       | enterprising Android engineer to port it themselves--I've placed
       | enough detail in these posts! _You're welcome to do so, just make
       | it free for everybody._ "
        
         | david_allison wrote:
         | No long-term capacity to maintain it, but I can probably
         | contribute a little.
         | 
         | email in my profile
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | Good man!
        
         | reaperman wrote:
         | Thanks for the suggestion to do something like this! I've never
         | made a mobile app but would love to learn how. Even if it's not
         | to contribute to a high quality Android app for _this_ radar
         | thing, choosing to spend some of my time porting anything like
         | it which also falls into the  "An app can be a home-cooked
         | meal"[0] paradigm likely means that grokking the code will be
         | easier than with because it will be programmed with a singular
         | vision/paradigm and lack bloat/adware/tracking/etc which would
         | complicate reading and understanding the existing code.
         | 
         | This suggestion may put me on the road to find some renewed joy
         | in programming.
         | 
         | 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38877423
        
           | jakey_bakey wrote:
           | Honestly I was hoping to inspire something like this; where
           | someone wants to learn to build something interesting that
           | isn't just another todo app tutorial
           | 
           | If you do want to build it, I'm happy to share the iOS source
           | with you!
        
             | reaperman wrote:
             | Sure thing, thank you! And totally happy if other efforts
             | either beat me to it and/or create a much more professional
             | port than my own.
             | 
             | reaperman_hn@protonmail.com
        
           | Tyr42 wrote:
           | I too have a toddler, so I don't have a lot of time, but I am
           | motivated to help. tbelaire on GitHub, but I have only done a
           | little android before.
        
       | Jerry2 wrote:
       | I tried to run that app like 5 times since it was released and it
       | failed to connect to the server every single time.
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | Really sorry about this, are you rural by any chance? I believe
         | there is an error message if there is nothing found overhead;
         | as a Londoner I don't think I properly prepared for the less
         | crowded airspaces!
        
       | oneepic wrote:
       | >As always, it's uniquely gratifying to create something my
       | daughter wants to play with. I look forward to her developing
       | many more interests -- with any luck, soon she'll get super into
       | platforming games or heavy metal.
       | 
       | I got into heavy metal because of the Tony Hawk games (THPS3 -
       | Motorhead's "Ace of Spades", THPS4 - Iron Maiden's "Number of the
       | Beast"). So there's a potential breadcrumb trail.
        
       | tgtweak wrote:
       | Does it blip planes when the radar scan rolls over them and they
       | stay in a static position but fade until the next sweep? That
       | would be so cool.
       | 
       | Would also be amazing to look at device current gps altitude and
       | location to determine the visible skyline per azimuth based on
       | openstreetmap buildings and hills/elevation around your current
       | position and altitude... then you can show it on the map as a
       | radar occlusion [1] - like a fish finder when you go over a log,
       | or ship radar occluded by another vessel.
       | 
       | I'm sure you'd cause some industry people to scratch their head
       | and wonder how the phone is doing radial scanning
       | 
       | [1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Occlusion-percentage-
       | for...
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | I love all these ideas - my app is very much the Pareto version
         | of the potential 100% complete version
        
       | ponty_rick wrote:
       | On a sidenote, do kids get invited into the cockpit anymore, in
       | this post 9/11 world?
        
         | rezz wrote:
         | I was on a flight last Thursday and saw this happen.
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | It was before we took off :)
        
         | Ductapemaster wrote:
         | I've seen it happen while the plane is at the gate. The pilots
         | usually have the door open, and you can go up and talk to them.
         | Worst case they say no, so its worth an ask.
         | 
         | Somewhere I still have a Delta wing pin from a trip I took as a
         | kid and got to see the cockpit en route. Very cool experience
         | that I remember to this day -- I hope your and others' kids get
         | to experience some piece of it themselves!
        
         | lightyrs wrote:
         | My 6-year old was invited into the cockpit for the first time
         | on January 1, 2024. I was wondering the same as you up until
         | that moment.
         | 
         | JetBlue US Domestic
        
         | sojournerc wrote:
         | My Dad was a pilot, and we'd often align a family vacation with
         | one of his flights. There was no prouder moment as a young kid
         | than being invited into the cockpit to "start the engines"
         | after push-back. I vaguely remember pushing some button and Dad
         | pointing out a moving dial in the cockpit. I vividly remember
         | walking back to my seat feeling like the biggest kid in the
         | world.
         | 
         | That kind of thing definitely wouldn't happen post 9/11.
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | My kids have been in the cockpit post 9/11. But you have to do
         | it before takeoff. They don't let anyone in there during
         | flight, even the flight attendants (except the lead sometimes).
         | 
         | My kids just ask as we are boarding the plane if the cockpit
         | door is still open.
        
       | bluepuma77 wrote:
       | First app I see in the wild that only supports iOS 17. Maybe I
       | will upgrade some day.
        
         | jakey_bakey wrote:
         | This is actually the first OS where this app is possible to
         | build in SwiftUI - the MapKit annotations and Metal shaders are
         | both brand new
        
       | tobiasbischoff wrote:
       | Congrats and thanks for updating! Both of my kids are avid users.
        
       | JoblessWonder wrote:
       | Here are my thoughts I left as a comment on the blog:
       | 
       | I've got ideas! As a parent of a toddler myself, I felt that
       | comment about picking the color... For sure the most important.
       | 
       | Anyways, here is a feature list of things you may have considered
       | but haven't implemented because this is just a fun side project!
       | 
       | 1. Live view. Use the phone's camera and iPhone's AR capability
       | to display a dot in the (general) area of the aircraft. I've done
       | some coding on how to calculate this based on the user's position
       | and ADSB info if you are interested!
       | 
       | 2. Mark an aircraft as "seen" or "missed"* which would go into
       | the next suggestion.... (*could even digest this feedback in
       | somehow and fine tune what is displayed?)
       | 
       | 3. Badges/Stats! If your daughter is anything like mine, she
       | loves getting badges in apps. Maybe create a local DB of previous
       | sightings so then you can track things like "number of different
       | airlines", "number of different aircraft types", "farthest flight
       | time spotted", "shortest flight time spotted" etc etc (Note: I
       | understand and totally appreciate the possible issues around
       | gamifying apps meant for consumption by children.)
        
         | abraae wrote:
         | > If your daughter is anything like mine, she loves getting
         | badges in apps
         | 
         | This may sound curmudgeonly, but I try to drill into my son's
         | awareness that he should aspire to be a producer of technology,
         | rather than just a consumer. We face regular discussions about
         | why he shouldn't spend $30 on Robux or some other digital
         | currency. I try and explain that these digital currencies don't
         | have real value like, say, a tennis racket or a pair of shoes.
         | 
         | As such I also try and give him the tools to fight against
         | gamification, and not to be sucked into grinding for hours to
         | get some badge or other worthless digital artifact.
         | 
         | So my 2 cents would be not to add features like this to an app
         | aimed at kids. Let them see that there is a such a thing as a
         | non-gamified, non-ad infested app that adds real value to their
         | lives.
        
           | mulmen wrote:
           | Devil's advocate: is it possible that Robux teach children to
           | contribute financially to the ecosystem's they participate
           | in? FOSS is famously not "free-as-in-beer" yet we have
           | created the expectation that virtual goods including software
           | do not have financial value. Could being raised on Robux
           | create an incentive to make modest financial contributions to
           | software projects?
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Maybe nice if the toddler can see where daddy is too.
       | 
       | Why is this downvoted?
        
       | wkjagt wrote:
       | This looks really cool and has a wonderful story behind it. But
       | I'd have to get a new phone to try it, as my OG iPhone SE only
       | supports up to iOS 15, and the App Store says this requires iOS
       | 17...
        
       | RedOrGreen wrote:
       | Very nice, even with no planes overhead. But it looks like the
       | map orientation is reversed (off by 180 degrees)? Real bug, or
       | just me?
        
       | ppod wrote:
       | Slightly off-topic but a question I've been wanting to ask: as
       | someone with a terrible sense of direction, the most important
       | feature in a phone for me is the accuracy of the little arrow on
       | the map that shows me which way I'm facing. I'm an android user,
       | and it kind of shows a blue "cone of uncertainty" when it isn't
       | sure which way its pointing, and occasionally asks either to move
       | the phone in a figure of eight or to point at nearby building to
       | calibrate.
       | 
       | What is the limiting factor here, technologically? Are iPhones
       | better than android? Is it the hardware (accelerometer?!,
       | compass?), the GPS signal, the software? It still, quite often,
       | seems to get confused and show the cone in the wrong direction.
       | It's so important to me that I would almost switch to iPhone if
       | it definitely works better.
        
       | issung wrote:
       | Anyone working on an Android port yet? I might try my hand at a
       | React Native port as a learning experience. Or is Flutter better?
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-22 23:00 UTC)