[HN Gopher] Fair Cake-Cutting
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       Fair Cake-Cutting
        
       Author : RetroTechie
       Score  : 53 points
       Date   : 2024-01-22 16:59 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _A Discrete and Bounded Envy-Free Cake Cutting Protocol for Any
       | Number of Agents (2016)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39060958 - Jan 2024 (9
       | comments)
       | 
       | Also:
       | 
       |  _New Algorithm Solves Cake-Cutting Problem (2016)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18432128 - Nov 2018 (37
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _"I-Cut-You-Choose" Cake-Cutting Protocol Inspires Solution to
       | Gerrymandering_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17459008 -
       | July 2018 (102 comments)
       | 
       |  _A Discrete and Bounded Envy-Free Cake Cutting Protocol for Any
       | Number of Agents_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15396643
       | - Oct 2017 (1 comment)
       | 
       |  _New algorithm that can fairly divide a cake among any number of
       | people_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12920642 - Nov
       | 2016 (1 comment)
       | 
       |  _How to Cut Cake Fairly and Finally Eat It Too_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12665340 - Oct 2016 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _How Mathematicians Cut Cake_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12392936 - Aug 2016 (43
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Essential advice on how to cut a cake fairly at a party._ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=638480 - June 2009 (6
       | comments)
        
       | 13415 wrote:
       | There is a nice introduction to the topic in case someone is
       | interested (but it's older): Cake-Cutting Algorithms, by Jack
       | Robertson and William Webb. A.K. Peters 1998.
       | 
       | IMHO it's worth pointing out that the topic has fewer
       | applications than one might think. Many problems where cake-
       | cutting algorithms might seem adequate are better addressed with
       | social choice/voting theory.
        
       | jeeyoungk wrote:
       | I've been thinking about the cake cutting problem recently, with
       | a bit more "physical world" and dexterity in mind. Even in the
       | two-player version, one can add few more criterion.
       | 
       | * Cutting a cake is a skill; it takes an effort (thus associated
       | cost) and you may not be accurate at cutting it. There may be
       | some error bound epsilon.
       | 
       | * If so, in the traditional "I cut you choose" model, as there
       | are risks associated with cutting (what if you intend fairness,
       | but you ended up with lopsided 49:51 cake due to an error?), one
       | may not volunteer to cut the cake; if so, how can we encourage /
       | compensate one to cut the cake?
       | 
       | * The "skill" can go both ways; it takes an effort to figure out
       | which cake is bigger - even more then the cut itself. both
       | parties may volunteer to cut the cake. if so, how can we
       | encourage / compensate one to be the chooser?
        
         | videogreg93 wrote:
         | Assuming a homogeneous cake, I think you can get around this by
         | cutting the cake in half, and then cutting a line perpendicular
         | to that one. Each person takes 2 pieces that touch each other
         | diagonally, which should in theory give each person half of the
         | cake.
        
         | MichaelZuo wrote:
         | > If so, in the traditional "I cut you choose" model, as there
         | are risks associated with cutting (what if you intend fairness,
         | but you ended up with lopsided 49:51 cake due to an error?),
         | one may not volunteer to cut the cake; if so, how can we
         | encourage / compensate one to cut the cake?
         | 
         | Why is that important? There's always someone willing to step
         | up to the plate, if person A doesn't want to, then person B, or
         | C, etc...
        
       | dweinus wrote:
       | Only a mathematician could think that when people are arguing
       | over a cake, the best solution involves giving everyone a knife
       | (Stromquist moving-knives procedure)
        
       | quonn wrote:
       | I can't help but think that when I cut one half just slightly
       | bigger or better the chooser will pick the smaller version due to
       | wanting to be polite.
        
       | cheeseomlit wrote:
       | If I get a piece with big globs of decorative frosting I'm just
       | gonna scrape most of it off anyways. Way too sweet
        
       | Pathogen-David wrote:
       | Up and Atom recently made a great video explaining this class of
       | problems and some of the algorithms for solving it:
       | https://youtu.be/fvM8ow6zNw4
        
       | pitdicker wrote:
       | When it comes to economics it never ceases to amaze me that we
       | build an entire system on the basic assumption that everyone acts
       | primarily in their own self-interest, and that that system
       | somewhat manages to function.
       | 
       | Luckily when it comes to regular cake cutting there may be a host
       | involved that just wants to give his guests something nice. And
       | the guests hopefully just enjoy the cake instead of being overly
       | sensitive about the fairness of the divisions.
        
         | shafyy wrote:
         | What system are you referring to?
        
         | HEmanZ wrote:
         | When the host gives their guest something nice, the host is
         | acting on their interest to please their guest. Or their
         | interest in being a friend. Or their interest in seeing their
         | guest happy. By definition, the only interest you posses is
         | your own, even if that interest is a benefit to someone else.
         | 
         | Only straw-man arguments in economics use self interest to
         | literally mean like "hedonic self interest" or layman's self
         | interest.
         | 
         | Economics actually does the opposite, the "self interest" is
         | basically "whatever people want". What do people want? They
         | want to maximize their utility! What is utility? Whatever
         | people want!
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | I hope it's clear that this isn't about actual cake cutting.
         | 
         | But rather as a stand-in for any resource that people want to
         | figure out a fair, equitable way to distribute.
         | 
         | So you should read this as a guide to how different countries
         | might be willing to fairly divide a contested piece of land,
         | when different parts of the land have different qualities (e.g.
         | suitability for farming, value in mining) and the different
         | countries value those things differently (e.g. one is good at
         | building mines, the other prefers to protect the environment).
         | 
         | There are a lot of conflicts in the world over resources that
         | need to be divvied up in some way, where everyone really _is_
         | looking out for the self-interest of their state or nation or
         | community.
        
       | BizarroLand wrote:
       | Reminds me of the book Triple Detente by Piers Anthony
       | 
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/263431.Triple_Detente
       | 
       | One of the core logical premises of the book is how three groups
       | can handle an unsteady alliance where each group is primarily
       | interested in saving their own people.
        
       | cpdean wrote:
       | There's a really interesting boardgame based on the cake-cutting
       | problem https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/173648/booty .
       | 
       | You play many rounds of trying to fairly divvy up piles of loot.
       | Different pieces combine in ways to increase their overall value,
       | as well as each piece having a base level amount of value. As a
       | result the actual act of dividing it fairly becomes complicated,
       | and players will try to influence the outcome in order to
       | maximize their score at the end of the game to win.
        
       | crazygringo wrote:
       | Oh wow. I'd never heard of any of this, but it reminds me a lot
       | of the different methods for voting [1].
       | 
       | After all, at heart there are a lot of parallels -- how do you
       | reconcile different preferences and resources to split up a cake
       | fairly, vs. how do you reconcile different preferences to split
       | up the resource of power fairly, whether to elect a single person
       | (e.g. a president) or a parliament?
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system
        
       | yboris wrote:
       | Algorithm for two people sharing any food:
       | 
       | 1st person cuts, 2nd person chooses which of the pieces to take.
        
         | laweijfmvo wrote:
         | For three people: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaMKInkV7Vs
        
       | nntwozz wrote:
       | The perfect solution to this problem is to put the cake in a
       | blender and serve it in cups.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-22 23:01 UTC)