[HN Gopher] How a baker survived the Titanic by getting drunk (2...
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How a baker survived the Titanic by getting drunk (2022)
Author : b0ner_t0ner
Score : 120 points
Date : 2024-01-21 10:00 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (nationalpost.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (nationalpost.com)
| rpy wrote:
| Something to think about during the next us-east-1 outage
| Kye wrote:
| Something to drink about.
| revskill wrote:
| Water ?
| Kye wrote:
| It's a play on words referencing the submission topic.
| walterbell wrote:
| What did lifeboats of that period stock for emergency rations?
|
| _> Immediately after hearing the collision with an iceberg, the
| chief baker leapt out of his bunk and began dispatching his staff
| to stock the lifeboats with bread and biscuits ... Not only did
| Joughin refuse his own place in a boat, but he and a few other
| men began forcibly chucking reluctant women into empty seats,
| likely saving their lives ... while scholars have obsessed about
| the boozy reputation of Charles Joughin, beneath it all might
| simply have been a man unwilling to die. "It's impossible for
| scientists to predict who will perform and respond well to
| extreme situations," noted Cheung. "Some people give up very
| quickly, others you just cannot seem to kill."_
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I've heard that a strong reason to live can get you through
| tough situations. E.g. in prison camps. I've also been solo
| skydiving and first hand experienced the loss of agency that
| comes from a poor response to life threatening situations:)
|
| So, I'm not optimistic about my own chances in those
| situations.
| ZetaH wrote:
| This reminded me on the "Hope" experiment they did on rats:
|
| https://homedialysis.org/news-and-
| research/blog/528-lifesavi....
| kalleboo wrote:
| > _What did lifeboats of that period stock for emergency
| rations_
|
| Biscuits and water, but they were in locked boxes on the deck
| "for fear of theft" so that wasn't reliably transferred to the
| boats in the chaos
| Throw84949 wrote:
| Nobody would bother to steal water. Rations would not survive
| on open decks. Scorching sun heat, corrosive salty air...
| pipes wrote:
| I find it hard to believe he survived in the water for that long.
| ionwake wrote:
| I read about a north fisherman whose boat sunk. everyone
| perished in the cold water but he was so large and wrapped in
| heavy clothing he eventually paddled to shore, walked a mile
| and knocked on a door, without dying. Fat and cloth layers
| really help. He was also said to have survived because he was
| incredibly drunk. Maybe the alcohol in the system reduces the
| effects of the cold?
| detourdog wrote:
| Sounds like anti-freeze keeping the oxygen circulating to the
| brain.
| xeromal wrote:
| If this ends up being anti-freeze...
| rightbyte wrote:
| In non freezing temperatures bad blood circulation probably
| is an advantage? There is probably no point in heating your
| fingers if in cold water for a long time. It will just cool
| more important organs.
| saalweachter wrote:
| Your body already has the reaction to cold temperatures of
| reducing circulation to your limbs.
|
| If you ever have to take a cold shower, and aren't the sort
| for them normally, hold your arm in for a good long while
| before jumping in.
|
| It's still going to be cold, but it's much less shocking
| than jumping in, between giving your brain time to get used
| to the idea and giving your body time to cut circulation to
| your skin and extremities.
| meheleventyone wrote:
| There's this guy:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gudlaugur_Fridthorsson
|
| His story was made into the movie The Deep (Djupid). Although
| he wasn't drunk.
| mst wrote:
| I don't think it reduces the physical effects so much as
| makes you -feel- the cold less and therefore be more able to
| keep going.
|
| Let's never find out.
| keepamovin wrote:
| There could be a Darwinian something to the stereotype of drunk
| UNION sailor
| brabel wrote:
| So the secret is to remain calm and keep hope (both of which are
| helped by drunkness) besides the obvious "be last to get into the
| water" and "put on more layers of clothing" (though I didn't know
| that more clothes help even when wet).
| Glawen wrote:
| The first time I had a serious accident with my car, I saw my
| life going before me. I was fine but my body was trembling
| after the accident. I saw a pub, I went there and drank 2
| whisky straight. It was just what i needed to stop my body from
| shaking, and get my ideas clearer again and be able to deal
| with the situation.
|
| Alcohol really is a miraculous substance
| jon-wood wrote:
| Somewhat unfortunate when the police do a routine
| breathalyser test an hour later though.
| pgalvin wrote:
| On the contrary, it can provide a defence.
|
| "You have a defence if you can convince the court that you
| drank the alcohol in question after you had driven and that
| you were not over the limit whilst you were driving."[1]
|
| With that said, your BAC can be estimated from whatever you
| prove you drank after the accident, which would reveal a
| discrepancy. Not a reliable way to get away with a terrible
| crime.
|
| [1] https://www.pattersonlaw.co.uk/faqs/drink-driving-
| leaving-sc...
| lolc wrote:
| Interesting case but ingesting alcohol can only improve a
| defense when you start out with alcohol on board.
| Otherwise it will worsen it.
| pastrami_panda wrote:
| I'm not sure how being fully submerged for long periods of time
| affects this, but in outdoor culture there are sayings like
| "warm when wet" - pertaining to certain fabrics such as wool
| and polyester.
|
| One famous strategy is the pile and pertex combination. Where
| you have a thin basically windproof but not waterproof shell
| made typically from Pertex, and then fake fur from polyster on
| the inside.
|
| These jackets are used to (might still be) be worn by law
| enforcement to old school rock climbers for it's ability to
| keep you warm and damp for hours.
|
| There are videos of people submerging in ice cold water and
| "walking it off" until they are damp but warm again.
|
| Another saying is "cotton kills", because it does not provide
| warmth when wet and also sucks up insane amounts of water for
| its weight, so it bascially never dries out.
| jebarker wrote:
| I used to have a second hand, well-worn Buffalo Systems
| pullover and it was fantastic for staying warm whilst wet
| hiking.
| sva_ wrote:
| I think any clothes can help building an insulating layer
| around your body.
|
| I've been doing some cold plunges recently and the difference
| between still and moving water is staggering, as you quickly
| get a thermal layer around you. Surely clothes would help with
| that.
| Ekaros wrote:
| Wet suites work on principal of after they get wet they don't
| convect heat. I think certain clothing combination might
| reach same effect, just not as well.
| nradov wrote:
| That's not now wetsuits work. Neoprene is simply a good
| thermal insulator, largely because of the embedded gas
| bubbles. And the tight fit minimizes the amount of cold
| water that can flow into the suit. There is still some heat
| convection regardless of whether the suit is wet or not.
| chewz wrote:
| I remember reading about Battle of Atlantic.
|
| Statistically on a sinking ship a sailor who couldn't swim had
| better chance of surviving than a sailor who was a good
| swimmer. In a cold Atlantic water the former had been expending
| less energy then the later, so he would last longer until being
| rescued.
| Steve44 wrote:
| > a sailor who couldn't swim had better chance of surviving
|
| I don't know about the statistics, but I'm descended from a
| small Scottish fishing village and remember being told that
| sailors didn't lean to swim. The logic was if you went
| overboard you were dead, the non swimmer would suffer less as
| they'd drown sooner.
|
| I'm not sure how much truth is in that, and I doubt it
| applies these days as it was probably from the days of sail
| when a ship couldn't just stop & turn around.
| hartator wrote:
| Come on. Getting drunk will lower your survival chances for sure.
| It counterintuitively doesn't warm you up, waste precious energy
| while the body fights intoxication, and you are more likely to
| injure yourself in anything requiring body coordination.
| speedgoose wrote:
| I am not sure that drinking alcohol wastes energy. It contains
| a lot of calories, more than sugar. I also haven't heard about
| people drinking alcohol to lose weight.
| hartator wrote:
| Vomiting won't retain calories which happens when you are
| "spectacularly drunk".
| zemvpferreira wrote:
| Someone is clearly not an experienced drunk (joke, joke)
| CatWChainsaw wrote:
| Alcohol is a vasodilator so maybe you'd lose more heat that
| way.
| UniverseHacker wrote:
| People lose a lot of weight on beer only fasts... there is
| also a long history of trappist monks doing beer only fasts
| for religious reasons, and presumably losing a lot of weight.
|
| My understanding is they are usually using high carb low
| alcohol beer, so it's more of a liquid only low fat diet than
| an alcohol diet.
| testless wrote:
| Appoximately 7 kcal per gramm vs 4 kcal per gramm for sugar
| nerdponx wrote:
| The article addresses this. One hypothesis is that the cold
| shock counteracted the vasodilation, and being drunk allowed
| him to make it through the cold shock without drowning. How he
| managed to not go hypothermic is unclear, but maybe paddling
| around without noticing the fatigue or pain was enough to keep
| him going until he found the overturned boat.
| bhickey wrote:
| > being drunk allowed him to make it through the cold shock
| without drowning.
|
| He had a life belt on, so he wouldn't have drowned. Being
| drunk might've prevented a heart attack brought on by cold
| water shock.
| speedgoose wrote:
| Could the many calories of the alcohol help in such situations?
|
| Eating fat during a ship sinking accident is probably better, but
| alcohol has more calories than sugar and having enough energy to
| survive in the cold is important.
| Kye wrote:
| It would probably depend on how soon you're rescued. Days, and
| alcohol probably works against you since it makes you lose
| water faster.
| cbsmith wrote:
| Fat is going to take a while to metabolize...
| nightowl_games wrote:
| > cannot seem to kill
|
| I live in a cold Canadian city that has a substantial population
| with drug addictions.
|
| I was talking to a cop one night (he was off duty) and he was
| telling me about how you eventually learn some of the regular
| offenders names and stories. He told me how tough some of these
| guys are. How he'd pick one up for stealing and he's out in -30C
| with ganggreen on his leg.
|
| "Cockroach energy" he called it.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| Similar to Crackhead Strength you might encounter in the
| states. There's videos of sketchy looking folks hauling away
| anything they can find while riding bikes that were probably
| stolen too. One guy hoisted a fridge into his shoulder and
| biked it away.
| xeromal wrote:
| I remember a video from long ago describing exactly what you
| mention. A tweaker riding a bike with a full sized fridge on
| his shoulder. Wild thing is that it wasn't even a full sized
| bike. lol. I think it was a BMX one.
| kjqgqkejbfefn wrote:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA40QqNn-1U&t=3s
| Gud wrote:
| Faith in humanity, restored?
| wnevets wrote:
| Real nice to see that it's not just America that dehumanizes
| the homeless.
| rayiner wrote:
| Interesting that's what you jump to when OP didn't say
| homeless, and instead mentioned things that are deliberate
| choices (stealing and drug use).
| Kerbonut wrote:
| Buying a house and eating are choices, too, I suppose...
| rayiner wrote:
| Taking affirmative action to hurt yourself and others is
| much more of a choice than being able to meet your basic
| needs or not.
| dghughes wrote:
| I find it difficult to believe. It was April -2C air temp in the
| open ocean and water temp probably 0C or 1C. Even with clothes on
| or relaxed you'd be dead in 15 minutes.
|
| I live in Canada on the coast and there are many news articles of
| people drowning after falling into cold water. And those people
| were in modern cold weather clothing.
| tzs wrote:
| Some people do have quite a bit more innate cold tolerance than
| normal. See for example Wim Hof.
|
| Hof claims his high cold tolerance is due to exercise and
| lifestyle, but his identical twin brother has similar cold
| tolerance without having done the things Wim attributes his to
| suggesting its genetic.
|
| That fits what scientists who have studied Hof found. They
| found that (1) he really does have very high cold tolerance,
| and (2) this are not attributable to the specific exercise and
| lifestyle choices he thinks it is.
| wkjagt wrote:
| There are some really wild stories about Wim Hof. I read that
| he would sometimes sit on a fountain in a park in Amsterdam,
| using it to flush his bowel. Then one day, the fountain
| nozzle was changed without him knowing, and next time he did
| this he had to go to hospital because of perforated
| intestines.
|
| I googled around a bit and did find some evidence that this
| actually happened but not that he did this regularly. I read
| it in an NRC or Volkskrant (Dutch papers) article if I
| remember correctly.
| portaouflop wrote:
| As the article states:
|
| Even today, the myth persists that the human body cannot
| withstand more than a few minutes in the ocean. Thus, many
| people thrown into the sea assume that cold shock is the icy
| grip of death closing around them. In reality, the cold shock
| ends after 90 seconds. Even in the winter waters of the North
| Atlantic, an average-sized adult still has 10 minutes before
| going numb, and at least an hour before the heart stops."The
| average adult is a big chunk of meat and it takes a lot of
| energy to cool it off"
|
| Apparently most people die because they panic due to the cold
| shock or just kinda give up.
| aaron695 wrote:
| > Then, he used the first rays of dawn to spot an overturned
| lifeboat set adrift in the Titanic's chaotic final minutes. He
| paddled over, pulled himself out of the water
|
| This is wrong, it was worse, there was no room for him so he hung
| on the side in the water
|
| 2:20 Titanic sunk. Sunrise was around 5:10am and he found the
| lifeboat to hang onto, then half a hour later another life boat
| arrived. So three hours.
|
| You can read his account here -
|
| https://www.titanicinquiry.org/BOTInq/BOTInq06Joughin01.php
| abhaynayar wrote:
| Mind over matter.
| zer00eyz wrote:
| https://archive.is/9qdtr
| nobodyandproud wrote:
| Many, many years ago my friends and I were out in the East
| Village (NYC).
|
| We went out for drinks and then to recharge we walked to a
| pizzeria (I assume 24 hours) to get a few bites.
|
| While I don't normally drink I found I can hold my own with
| whiskey and I must've had about 10 (expensive!!) double shots
| over the course of 2 hours. Needless to say I was pretty buzzed.
|
| Anyway, another group picked a fight with one of my friends; a
| hot pizza was thrown at the instigator's face and a small brawl
| ensued. While I'm. it physical, when one of my friends tripped I
| weighed out how to help (mostly made them pause, so friend didn't
| get stomped); then shortly after NYPD showed up.
|
| Held hand up to show that I wasn't a threat; saw the pepper spray
| out and the officer's panicked face; and I closed my eyes because
| I knew what would happen.
|
| After running away as a group--thankfully the witnesses pointed
| out the instigators and some sympathetic bouncers let us cut
| through another club--I also had the presence of mind to buy a
| quart of milk--reasoning the fat and cool liquid would help--to
| ready myself against the burn.
|
| The point: Some individuals can be pretty trashed but still
| retain planning skills, concerns of responsibility.
|
| The baker clearly fell into this category.
|
| Sidenote: I'm glad it didn't get into my eyes, but wow did the
| spray burn...even with milk.
| 1B05H1N wrote:
| """ The baker, in fact, had unwittingly become a textbook example
| of how to survive a shipwreck.
|
| First, he delayed immersion; among those who went into the water
| that night, Joughin was the absolute last to get wet.
|
| Second -- and most important -- he managed to stay calm and
| strategize a way out of the water. """
|
| I'll consider this next time I'm in a shipwreck.
| revskill wrote:
| The nice thing about being calm is, it prevents you from doing
| worse things from the worst.
|
| Yes, the worst could be worse if you got panic.
| bloomingeek wrote:
| When I was about eight years old, I went to look for something I
| left near a motel swimming pool. I slipped into the deep end of
| the pool, I didn't know how to swim. At first I flailed as fast
| as I could, instinctively I suppose. This didn't help and I
| realized two things, I was still sinking and was getting tired.
| So I stopped and just stared ahead. I can't say I knew I was
| going to die, I just knew I was in trouble. Then my feet slowing
| hit the bottom of the pool, this startled me and it occurred to
| me I could jump and maybe catch the edge of the pool. For the
| first time I looked up and saw sky and leaped.
|
| I was very lucky and made it the first time. When I got my head
| above the water, I was so exhausted I stayed there for a few
| minutes before climbing out of the water. Over the years, I've
| thought about this many times and, after a many years, came to
| the conclusion that calming myself after the initial terror
| probably saved my life. The calming came, I believe, because I
| was tired and stopped moving.
| rightbyte wrote:
| > Then my feet slowing hit the bottom of the pool, this
| startled me and it occurred to me I could jump and maybe catch
| the edge of the pool.
|
| A really startling story. That is one of my nightmares as a
| parent. I really need to learn my kids to swim soon.
|
| I wonder if you could actually stand on the bottom with your
| head over water if you tried? Like it is really hard to "jump"
| under water. And you don't really sink until your lungs are
| filled with water (I believe?).
| DougN7 wrote:
| If you exhale you'll probably find you sink quite well. And
| 'jumping', even just using your feet/ankles will be enough to
| move you up 5-8 feet. Give it a try (assuming you can swim!)
| marcosdumay wrote:
| > If you exhale you'll probably find you sink quite well.
|
| That depends on how fat you are. And if there's any salt on
| the water.
| filleduchaos wrote:
| Unless you are extremely obese, most of your buoyancy
| will come from your lungs, no?
| Thiez wrote:
| Generally (assuming a healthy weight) women float and men
| sink, due to women having a few percentage points more
| body fat. I imagine children sink as well as men though.
| ghaff wrote:
| In general, at least some ability to swim is a pretty basic
| skill. It should happen much earlier (and it did in my case)
| but my undergrad required passing a swim test or at least
| taking the Phys Ed course.
| temporarara wrote:
| While it's beneficial to learn swimming as young as you
| possible can people should be encouraged to learn it later
| too if they are at least mildy interested in water. I
| learned to swim very young pretty much on my own and
| thought I was decent, but it was only after taking some
| technique classes later on that made swimming longer
| distances actually enjoyable to me.
|
| Swimming as competitive sports never interested me at all,
| and unfortunately the training aspect of swimming is way
| too often hardlinked with it. And many other sports hobbies
| suffer from the same "this is a pipeline to create
| professional athletes from children" mentality.
| ghaff wrote:
| I was never a "good" swimmer. I was fairly negative
| buoyancy as a teenish and barely got the one mile Boy
| Scout patch at one point. Never had any interest in
| competitive.
|
| I agree with what I think your basic point is. Swim well
| enough and comfortable enough so you probably won't drown
| in a trivial water situation or even doing stuff like
| canoeing/kayaking and that goes a _long_ way.
|
| Maybe it's my background but you end up in a river or a
| lake sooner or later. Or you step off into something
| that's a bit deeper than you expected. It seems pretty
| stupid to not be prepared for something that seems
| basically normal life for a lot of people that doesn't
| actually require a huge amount of work.
| HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
| I almost drowned as a kid too, maybe a couple of years younger.
| Out in rural Ireland I was jumping from rock to rock at edge of
| a small lake and fell in. I remember it was actually a very
| calm experience - sinking down underwater with eyes open, then
| coming back up a little, then an arm from above came down into
| the water and dragged me out. Luckily one of my elder cousins
| had seen me fall in. My parents were there too, but oddly I
| can't remember ever talking to them about it... I guess fell
| in, got pulled out, end of story!
|
| I taught/got my daughter to swim at an early age (4-5) for the
| safety benefit. I'd just take her to the pool once a week and
| we'd hang out and play, and over a year or two she just learnt
| to swim from being in the water!
| 1024core wrote:
| Recently I was in Hawaii, snorkeling in an area where I could
| walk around. I don't now how to swim, but I have been in
| shallow pools before. Unbeknownst to me, I was slowly drifting
| into a deeper area as I was busy just looking down at the
| fishies. Suddenly I realized my feet no longer could touch the
| bottom, and an initial panic set in. Then I quickly reasoned
| that I would just sink to the bottom (which was, about, 8 feet
| or so) and push myself off of it to reach the surface, then
| take a deep breath and do a doggie paddle-sort of a motion to
| get closer to the rocks nearby. If I had panicked, I would not
| have been able to hold my breath long enough. Luckily I did not
| at the moment and managed to reach the rocks (which were about
| 3 feet deep).
|
| After that day, I swore to be more careful next time!
| throwaway63467 wrote:
| Snorkeling without knowing how to swim seems like a pretty
| bad idea in the first place...
| mb_72 wrote:
| Might I suggest that swearing to learn to improve your
| swimming skills may be more beneficial to your long-term
| survival? Plus a lot more fun once you have more confidence
| in the water.
| gumby wrote:
| This story is crazy/funny but it's true that being calm is a huge
| lifesaver. It's why one of the elements of military training is
| not just learning "what to do" but also practicing those things
| in stressful conditions so that a habit can kick in.
|
| I have no military background but do have (and teach) a couple of
| outdoor hobbies that have on three occasions caused me to think
| that there was a high chance I would not survive. I still
| sporadically wake up with nightmares of them years later.
|
| Interestingly at each time my initial overwhelming thought was
| "I'm an idiot for letting this happen" while without really
| thinking I took action as I teach my students. In two cases I had
| a large dog with me and that was probably decisive. In all cases
| I was alone (not with other people, just the dog) which is also a
| massive risk factor. Obviously irrelevant to the Titanic case.
| zubairq wrote:
| Pretty incredible story. So he really got drunk , stayed calm and
| survived the sinking of the titanic !
| Zickzack wrote:
| I shall raise my glass to this fine gentleman.
| karussell wrote:
| The title is a bit strange. Maybe the decision to get and cinch
| his lifebelt was more important than getting drunk?
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