[HN Gopher] Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Amazon has taken down the Sad Bastard Cookbook
        
       Author : Kye
       Score  : 283 points
       Date   : 2024-01-20 11:11 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (wandering.shop)
 (TXT) w3m dump (wandering.shop)
        
       | wscourge wrote:
       | > Reaching a human at Amazon is a Kafkaesque experience that we
       | haven't yet managed to do.
       | 
       | It indeed is, I had the same experience. Good idea to asking
       | here, you might just find some
        
         | ufocia wrote:
         | It is that, most likely by design. The harder to access a
         | relatively expensive human, the better the bottom line.
        
         | mikequinlan wrote:
         | https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/retail/2022/09/14/how-t...
        
       | malermeister wrote:
       | I'm gonna guess their language police bot took issue with the
       | word "bastard".
        
         | wccrawford wrote:
         | That, combined with that it appears to be aimed at "depressed,
         | disabled, and broke folks" (their words, from that link) and I
         | can imagine some people took offense and reported it.
        
         | jayceedenton wrote:
         | That can't be it. Their are hundreds of books on Amazon with
         | far worse words in the title.
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | Would you be interested in the paperback version of "Looks Like
         | It's Fuck This Shit O'Clock"?
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/dp/1092412743/
        
         | flir wrote:
         | There must be a whitelist process though:
         | https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=bastard&i=stripbooks
        
         | las_balas_tres wrote:
         | What about the book. "How to take a shit in the woods"
         | https://www.amazon.com/How-Shit-Woods-3rd-Environmentally/dp...
        
         | cafard wrote:
         | Amazon would love to sell me the novel _Bastard out of
         | Carolina_ in paperback or electronic format, or a DVD of the
         | movie made from the novel.
        
       | riedel wrote:
       | Just checked, interestingly it is still available for on demand
       | order via other channels. Wonder if they still print it and only
       | delist on their own frontend [0]. Maybe it is a bit of
       | compensation if they profit from the Streisand effect.
       | 
       | Regarding Amazon I find it funny that they actually engage quite
       | a few people e.g. for tech support of end users. I think they
       | know where to optimize..
       | 
       | [0] https://www.thalia.de/shop/home/suggestartikel/A1067374317
        
         | javawizard wrote:
         | > interestingly it is still available for on demand order via
         | other channels
         | 
         | Where, if you don't mind my asking? This would make an
         | _excellent_ birthday gift for a good friend and I 'd prefer to
         | get her the print edition, but a quick search is failing to
         | turn up anywhere that offers an actual hardcopy besides Amazon.
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | I'm trying to remember what service we considered, when an
           | organization that wrote a book self-published (I was on the
           | committee to write the book).
           | 
           | We ended up actually commissioning normal printing, and
           | selling the book, ourselves (it was quite successful, if I
           | say so, myself. We made our money back in about a month), but
           | we did consider a service that allowed you to sell print-on-
           | demand. They ran the store, and the printer. You could also
           | move eBooks through them.
           | 
           | This was many years ago, and memory fails me.
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | Memory jogged. It was Lulu. Looked pretty good, but that
             | was many years ago.
        
           | riedel wrote:
           | This was just a random German online book seller that are
           | connected to a major distribution system. I don't know how it
           | is elsewhere in the world, we in Germany have just a fe major
           | distributors. I remember when publishing my PhD thesis I
           | could chose if I wanted a ISBN and allow global distribution,
           | when self publishing on Amazon (was much cheaper than any
           | other options that required my to buy a batch). Actually
           | small publishers have been living a lot of PhD theses in
           | Germany, but nowadays electronic publication is allowed and
           | not everyone has boxes of their manuscript in the basement as
           | it used to be.
        
       | andirk wrote:
       | I understand the obsession with being on Amazon, but can we
       | please normalize selling elsewhere? The internet is a vast
       | expanse. Why do we think Amazon is the end all be all? I do not
       | understand this.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | For consumers, it's easy: Amazon offers a consistent effortless
         | experience. They already have all your payment and shipping
         | data, so no need to create accounts and passwords at some
         | random site with unknown security standards, you know what to
         | expect in terms of shipping vs whatever that random shop is
         | using, no need to worry if the shop will be around in a year or
         | two to honor warranties, no worry about bullshit surrounding
         | returns, warranty claims or refunds.
        
           | ufocia wrote:
           | How does Amazon handle warranties, especially in a year or
           | two? Pray tell.
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | Amazon is a multibillion dollar company that has a
             | _consistent_ track record of prioritizing customer
             | satisfaction ever since its inception, as does PayPal -
             | admittedly though at the expense of merchants, where we 've
             | seen more than enough horror stories on HN about these two
             | companies.
             | 
             | Besides: The chances of either of them going belly-up are
             | faaaaar lower than for Joe Random's webshop or, heaven
             | forbid, physical store.
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | > Amazon is a multibillion dollar company that has a
               | consistent track record of prioritizing customer
               | satisfaction ever since its inception
               | 
               | A massive issue missing from this statement are the
               | problems around fakes which has grown and is unaddressed
               | by Amazon. Not such an issue with books though.
        
             | sdoering wrote:
             | My experience with warranty at Amazon was nothing but great
             | every single time. Okay, I am from Germany with quite
             | strong consumer protection.
             | 
             | But still. Shopping at Amazon is so damn riskless, why
             | would I buy at a small shop I don't know anything about? I
             | got burned, family got burned - I just became very, very
             | selective with buying elsewhere.
             | 
             | The risk is too damn high.
        
               | farbklang wrote:
               | I lost 450$ on amazon.com for a product that never
               | arrived. Apparently I complained too late and they 'have
               | no shipping info' - might do an ask HN about it and try
               | my best at a writeup.
        
             | imgabe wrote:
             | Amazon is the store. The manufacturer handles warranties.
             | If your Samsung TV breaks you don't complain to Wal-Mart,
             | you complain to Samsung.
        
               | tomrod wrote:
               | Walmart has return merchandising agreements with
               | suppliers.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | > If your Samsung TV breaks you don't complain to Wal-
               | Mart, you complain to Samsung.
               | 
               | WTF, here in Germany (or rather Europe as a whole) it is
               | the other way around for the mandatory 2 years - if
               | something happens, you return the item where you bought
               | it and the seller is completely responsible for dealing
               | with everything, and on the hook for delivering you a
               | working item.
               | 
               | Only after these two years expire and you have an
               | "extended warranty" in place you have to deal with the
               | manufacturer.
        
               | Symbiote wrote:
               | Britain had and still has compatible laws, so I can link
               | to a good summary in English for Americans etc:
               | 
               | https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-
               | rights/regulation/consumer-...
        
             | Fnoord wrote:
             | In my experience: first 2 or 3 months you can send it back
             | np. After 2 years they say your warranty is forfeit. Which
             | isn't true if you can reasonably expect the product to last
             | longer (if it is an expensive one). In my case the battery
             | was damaged due to bogus firmware update and they refused
             | to deal with it, citing warranty with seller is exhausted
             | (untrue). They said I should go to the manufacturer
             | instead. I got "lucky" there: they couldn't repair it and
             | replacement would take 3 months so they proposed sending me
             | a newer revision for an extra price of a little bit over
             | 100 EUR. Result is I will actively buy the product
             | elsewhere if it is an expensive one.
        
               | andirk wrote:
               | That is so genius: Completely handle all immediate issues
               | which probably involve a lot of idiot user error and no
               | issue on the hardware, and then completely drop fools
               | after 30 days! You only have to deal with the issues that
               | aren't actually issues!
        
           | teeray wrote:
           | The shipping is huge. I'm so much more inclined to purchase
           | something that's FBA rather than wait for some seller to see
           | the notification that a sale was made, drive back from the
           | lake house because it's the weekend, pack up the item on
           | Monday sometime, then finally drive it to the post office on
           | Tuesday.
        
         | dageshi wrote:
         | All the customers are there and the company has perhaps spent
         | more time than any other figuring out how to sell books to
         | people. They're better at it than everyone else.
        
           | Ma8ee wrote:
           | Not all the customers. I actively avoid Amazon since quite a
           | few years back. There are literally dozens of us!
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | I was up early one day getting coffee, and saw that one of
             | the book stores in my neighborhood had a line of about 30
             | people of all ages outside waiting for it to open.
             | 
             | I figured it was an event, and had nothing else to do, so I
             | got in line, too. When the doors opened, they all scattered
             | to different parts of the store. So, no author signing or
             | music release. Just people who like books.
        
               | sva_ wrote:
               | > had nothing else to do, so I got in line, too
               | 
               | Are you British by any chance?
        
               | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
               | Well, at least he didn't ask anyone what was the event,
               | which is quite proper since they had not been introduced.
        
               | lacrimacida wrote:
               | Im glad you had a great experience in the bookstore.
               | Unfortunately many bookstores had to close down because
               | of giants like Amazon. Some will stay open but much fewer
               | than before as it becomes a niche rather than a
               | widespread phenomena. I fondly remember spending lots of
               | time in bookstores in the 2000s, it was my favorite
               | pasttime. The experience of browsing books in a bookstore
               | cannot be and will never be produced by the likes of
               | Amazon.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | >Unfortunately many bookstores had to close down because
               | of giants like Amazon.
               | 
               | At least around where I live, this wasn't a single-step
               | process. What happened was that big bookstores (both
               | chains and local) started pushing out the mom and pop
               | indies. And then they themselves complained as Amazon in
               | particular ate their lunch.
               | 
               | I really did like going into town to do various shopping,
               | in particular bookstore (new and used) browsing, once or
               | twice a month. On the other hand, I can't say I hate
               | instant ebook delivery or a physical copy in a day or two
               | if that's what I want for some reason.
        
           | repelsteeltje wrote:
           | So not much authors can do.
           | 
           | As a consumer, I invest time and money to try buy elsewhere
           | (and boycott Amazon) when I can, but it's not always easy.
           | Also, I'm aware that these kind of Don Quixote boycots
           | seldomly have an impact macro economically. Nevertheless, I
           | keep trying...
        
             | shever73 wrote:
             | I'm the same. I haven't bought anything from Amazon in
             | nearly 4 years. The top spot on my "worst companies in the
             | world" list is usually tied between Amazon, Meta and
             | Nestle.
             | 
             | Macroeconomically, it probably makes precisely zero
             | difference, but it makes me feel better to be supporting
             | local shops.
        
           | zilti wrote:
           | Maybe in the USA, but over here, many book stores are a lot
           | better at selling books (both on- and offline) than Amazon
        
             | dageshi wrote:
             | I read a lot of books. It's pretty much my main source of
             | entertainment. Nobody else came up with something like
             | Kindle Unlimited where you pay a flat fee and read as much
             | as you want instantly. There's entire genres that only
             | exist on amazon that will never appear in a bookstore.
        
               | felurx wrote:
               | You are describing a library. Those have been around for
               | quite a while.
               | 
               | Nowadays, many do have online offers where you can
               | "borrow" e-books.
               | 
               | Of course, any library's catalogue is probably smaller
               | than Amazons, but they usually are quite up-to-date with
               | mainstream stuff and have more than you could ever hope
               | to read in any case.
               | 
               | Plus you get to have a warm fuzzy feeling for supporting
               | an institution that is really good for your local
               | community :)
        
               | dageshi wrote:
               | I'd frankly rather just support the author directly.
               | 
               | They wrote a book, I'm happy to pay for it in some manner
               | and Kindle Unlimited honestly seems like the fairest
               | possible solution, I as a reader aren't required to buy
               | in advance, I can try it to see if I enjoy it and if I do
               | the author gets paid per page read.
        
               | tomrod wrote:
               | In my areas we have puli libraries with interlinear loan.
               | Being able to read for pleasure is a wonderful luxury!
        
               | Kye wrote:
               | I think I would miss PINES if I ever left Georgia. The
               | nearest library is tiny, but I can have any of 10 million
               | books delivered to it. And if the system doesn't have it,
               | they appreciate and respond to requests.
        
               | downut wrote:
               | We moved from AZ to suburban Atlanta last year, and were
               | familiar with interlibrary loan for rural libraries in
               | AZ. But wow! PINES is sensational. We get books and DVDs,
               | even some BluRays from all over GA. Been watching The
               | Wire again, it's great.
               | 
               | And the inventory isn't censored either. I started a
               | reread of Gravity's Rainbow and that came from Carrolton
               | (college town). Certain gory/raunchy murder mystery
               | series come from the oddest places. Series like Game of
               | Thrones. And highbrow academic stuff like Anne Hollander.
               | 
               | Reminds me I got to log on and extend a couple of titles.
               | 
               | But yeah, we still buy dead tree books, occasionally,
               | from Amazon, but only if we want to keep them. It turns
               | out PINES is great for that, too. Just put it on hold,
               | review it in person, and if it's actually good, buy it.
        
               | tomrod wrote:
               | We did the same -- Sequoyah regional library has been
               | really cool!
        
               | SSLy wrote:
               | > _Nobody else came up with something like Kindle
               | Unlimited where you pay a flat fee and read as much as
               | you want instantly_
               | 
               | https://www.legimi.pl/
        
           | andirk wrote:
           | My friend bought a book that was literal gibberish in its
           | thousands of pages. Yes he got a refund. The question still
           | stands, especially among an open source community, WHY is
           | Amazon the defacto? I argue let's stop that
        
         | lwhi wrote:
         | I don't think the solution is quite as simple as choosing to
         | normalise selling elsewhere.
        
         | imgabe wrote:
         | You would have to normalize _buying_ elsewhere for it to make
         | any difference.
        
           | carlosjobim wrote:
           | When sellers invest time and effort into making it
           | comfortable to buy, there is no problem at all getting
           | customers to pay on your own website, outside of Amazon or
           | other platforms like Booking.com or what have you.
           | 
           | However, most sellers have a hostile attitude towards their
           | own customers, whether the seller is a business or
           | individual. They won't make a decent webpage, they won't make
           | an acceptable and smooth buying experience, and they won't
           | match price or give a better price than the platforms. So,
           | naturally customers will go to who they trust.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | Exactly--as a customer, I would love to buy elsewhere!
             | Amazon is such a shitty company and I trust their listings
             | so little, that they are the store of last resort for me.
             | It would be super awesome if when I wanted a product, I
             | could just... go the the manufacturer's web site and buy
             | it. And there should be no mark-up because there is no
             | middle-men. Instead of that, one of these usually happens:
             | 
             | 1. The manufacturer doesn't sell its own products! This is
             | usually the case. Often they will helpfully list "dealers"
             | where you can go find it (which all charge more than
             | Amazon).
             | 
             | 2. The manufacturer sells the product but their purchase
             | and checkout experience is brutal (and/or it doesn't accept
             | my desired form of payment) and I drop out of the funnel in
             | frustration.
             | 
             | 3. The manufacturer sells the product but it is
             | inexplicably 25-50% more than Amazon and 50%-100% more than
             | used on eBay.
             | 
             | They might say they dislike Amazon but they seem to be
             | doing everything they can to push their customers to them.
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | If there was another store that had all books amazon had, with
         | a Kindle like experience on all possible platforms and
         | e-readers, I might consider that.
         | 
         | The only other store that I know of is Rakuten and that's by
         | far a worse experience.
        
         | Hnrobert42 wrote:
         | For books, I always go to bookshop.org first. They pass some
         | profit along to a local bookstore of your choice.
        
         | andy99 wrote:
         | I don't use amazon (although I cheat a bit because my wife
         | sometimes does). But for books we use indigo.ca (in Canada)
         | which has the same selection and is importantly not Amazon. Is
         | there another national US online bookseller?
         | 
         | For other stuff, I just go to the hardware store. The only real
         | amazon thing I depend on is a kind of micro-fibre wipes I use
         | for my glasses.
         | 
         | It's actually mostly happened organically since amazon got so
         | bad, although the last few times I used it I abandoned my cart
         | trying to navigate the dark pattern of paying without buying
         | prime or getting tricked into shipping fees.
        
           | wojciii wrote:
           | I'm doing something similar. Amazon is Russian propaganda
           | stupid these days and I don't hate myself enough to use it
           | much.
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | ?
        
               | WolfeReader wrote:
               | Cut out the words "Russian propaganda" and the post
               | you're replying to makes perfect sense.
        
               | rolph wrote:
               | i think its an attempt at ad hoc adjectivism. perjorative
               | yes, maybe vaguely humourous. Russian propaganda, isnt
               | exactly the most thought out attempt toward manipulating
               | people. it attempts to muddy the waters, and make
               | everything look like a ridiculous choice.
        
               | wojciii wrote:
               | Russian propaganda is currently the most stupid thing
               | that I know of. I feel more and more stupid each time I
               | read something on X written by Russians (official Kremlin
               | stuff).
        
           | vcg3rd wrote:
           | >Is there another national US online bookseller?
           | 
           | Barnes and Noble. Their Nook isn't as good, but it's an
           | alternative. I also will buy books [1] direct from
           | publishers, and there are still more narrowly focused sites
           | like History Book Club and Christian Book Distributers.
           | 
           | [1] I dislike using qualifiers (physical books, postal mail)
           | which turn centuries-old words into phrases. If I mean e, I
           | say/write e, otherwise I mean what the words always meant.
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | I buy my ebooks (lots of them) from the Apple iTunes book
             | store.
             | 
             | However, Apple is almost as controversial (with this
             | crowd), as Amazon.
        
         | wut42 wrote:
         | Is there any good alternatives to Amazon print-on-demand ?
        
       | perihelions wrote:
       | Also available here,
       | 
       | https://nightbeatseu.ca/works/the-sad-bastard-cookbook/
       | 
       | https://traumbooks.itch.io/the-sad-bastard-cookbook
       | 
       | - _" We made it legal with Creative Commons (4.0 attribution non-
       | commercial), but if you get a thrill from breaking the law, you
       | can pretend it's not."_
        
         | coolandsmartrr wrote:
         | I love the copyright description. Is this book full of humor
         | like this?
        
           | leetrout wrote:
           | Yes. They note things like being reliably informed salt makes
           | (most) things better.
        
           | borlanco wrote:
           | I would say yes. They try hard to make cooks laugh.
           | 
           | This is one of their recipes:                 APOCALYPSE
           | RAMEN            This is basically like regular ramen soup
           | but with three critical differences:             - It is
           | intensely chaotic, which is to say that you can pretty much
           | toss anything into it and say you did it on purpose.       -
           | It's slightly healthier, if your depression has lifted enough
           | that you want to eat something other than delicious,
           | delicious chemicals.       - It involves a mason jar, so you
           | can feel like you're riding out the end of days in true
           | hipster style.            Core Ingredients & Supplies:
           | - Mason jar or other heatproof receptacle.       - Boiling
           | water.       - The only requirement here is rice noodles.
           | Why? Because they cook fast.            Preparation:
           | - Put all ingredients in the jar.       - Boil some water.
           | - Pour into jar to cover ingredients.       - Shake it up a
           | bit (not right away, otherwise you'll burn your hands and get
           | more depressed).       - Let it sit for a few minutes.
           | - Enjoy???            Variations:             - Remember
           | those takeout packets of hot sauce and soy sauce? This is a
           | good time to use them.       - Frozen or fresh vegetables.
           | Wilted is absolutely fine here. International readers may
           | call them "wilty" vegetables. Reader, you are now bilingual.
           | - Any kind of spices. We particularly suggest garlic or
           | ginger powder, but seriously, anything will work.       - If
           | you have tofu or some other protein to use, go for it.
        
             | fsckboy wrote:
             | put boiling water in a jar and then shake it up? Ouch! when
             | you agitate hot water, it evaporates a lot faster, bringing
             | the pressure in the jar to great heights. If your seal is
             | not good, or if you open the jar scalding water can come
             | shooting out onto your hands.
             | 
             | a similar thing happens when you put boiling water in a
             | blender and turn the blender on (your blender seal is not
             | good) explosive results.
        
               | digitalsin wrote:
               | Please note the name of the recipe.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | A playfully dangerous sounding name is no excuse for a
               | recipe that could literally scald your face for life.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | It's a mason jar. If it's cool enough for you to hold,
               | it's not going to permanently disfigure you. Plenty of
               | camping recipes involve putting boiling water in pouches
               | and then squeezing and shaking them.
        
               | squeaky-clean wrote:
               | The recipe literally says to wait until the water is no
               | longer boiling hot though. Anyone can harm themselves
               | cooking if they don't follow the actual recipe steps.
        
       | cdrini wrote:
       | My guess would be this is an overzealous AI-generated content
       | detector. Amazon has been flooded with low quality AI generated
       | books in the past ~year, and has been removing a lot of it. My
       | guess would be they're still tweaking their algorithms as folks
       | generating books change their tactics. Hopefully a human will
       | respond soon!
        
         | jruohonen wrote:
         | That would be my guess too. A few months back they announced a
         | ML model to clean up the reviews, but I'd argue that it is a
         | lost battle; there is so much human-made and now AI-made
         | garbage already. A solution might be a full deletion and then a
         | real identity verification for reviewers.
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | Sometimes the merchant will switch a product with reviews
           | with a different product. So it looks like it has 1,000
           | reviews but in reality most reviews are for something else.
        
             | jruohonen wrote:
             | And then you have the ugly stuff; I remember reading a
             | paper (cannot find it now, though) about fraud rigs through
             | which people can buy fraudsters to promote their products
             | and trash their competitors' products. With AI, that kind
             | of stuff will surely accelerate.
        
               | dspillett wrote:
               | _> With AI, that kind of stuff will surely accelerate._
               | 
               | It'll become another war of attrition, like other forms
               | of spam & anti-spam.
        
               | fny wrote:
               | People need to purchase products to leave reviews, so I
               | doubt AI will run rampant any time soon for reviews.
        
               | gambiting wrote:
               | On Amazon? That's not true - at least on Amazon UK it
               | definitely isn't, just tried and it lets me write a
               | review for a product I never bought without any problem.
        
               | fny wrote:
               | These reviews don't contribute to the overall rating and
               | in some cases are shadow banned.
        
         | raffraffraff wrote:
         | Aren't people en-masse realising that AI, for all its
         | impressive bling, is a stupid blunt instrument? If you've used
         | it for any amount of time you'll know this. Sure, it's a great
         | time-saver, and if you use it wisely it can remove a lot of
         | tedium. But if you're a developer, one thing you'll know is
         | that it cannot replace developers. You still need to structure
         | your whole project yourself, figure out what the data schema
         | needs to look like, and direct the AI tool to do small sections
         | of the work. And you should be ready to sanity check and debug
         | anything it spits out. Similarly with AI image stuff, if you
         | have a bunch of old black & white photos that were taken on a
         | shitty camera in the 1940s, you can get it to upscale, repair,
         | clean and colourize. But if any living person knows any of the
         | subjects in the photographs, be ready for them to laugh their
         | heads off (or get extremely angry) that grandpappy's eyes _are
         | not grandpappy 's eyes_, that they have lost all family
         | resemblance and look more like expertly stuck-on _googly eye
         | stickers_. Also the colour palettes are wrong for the time,
         | their teeth get magically straightened, their fob-watch chain
         | gets turned into a rope etc. Some of these un-guided AI effects
         | are as bad as their non-AI counterparts, like Affinity Photo 's
         | "magic inpainting" that's supposed to let you easily paint out
         | unwanted items in a photo. They look like magic when removing a
         | seagull from a cloudless sky, but they'll make an absolute
         | hames out of anything remotely complex. For example, removing a
         | person from a busy street. Instead of inventing some plausible
         | background to replace them with, it'll just auto-clone their
         | surroundings into the vacuum so you end up with very obviously
         | duplicated features (door handles, street signs etc). This is
         | something that you would _never_ do as a photography
         | professional. So can it save you a bunch of time? Sometimes.
         | Can you rely on it to work without a human in the loop? You 're
         | havin' a laugh!
         | 
         | Something that _all_ AI tools need to build in is the ability
         | to override their learned data and to curb their enthusiasm for
         | inventing completely _wrong_ detail that was never there. While
         | AI has gotten impressive, I wouldn 't trust it to do anything
         | remotely important without a competent human driving it.
         | 
         | The biggest problem with AI is that companies that adopt it
         | think that they can fire a bunch of staff and let AI tools run
         | amok.
        
           | wegfawefgawefg wrote:
           | It's blunt if youre using it for dumb shit in the same way
           | that a hammer is a blunt instrument if used to break peoples
           | stuff. If you are using it for highly domain specific
           | knowledge its very good, whether that's protien folding,
           | teaching you some arcane programming language macro, etc.
        
             | whatwhaaaaat wrote:
             | If we have to use an analogy I think a better analogy is
             | that it's blunt like a dull knife. From a ways back it
             | might look sharp but zoom in and it's not. The only way any
             | of the current ai appears competent in any domain is if the
             | user themselves it not.
        
               | wegfawefgawefg wrote:
               | I think its totally the other way around actually. It
               | looks blunt from afar, but when you use it on specific
               | fiddly things, it does a great job. Domain experts get
               | the most out of it. The average person really can't use
               | it well.
               | 
               | I do agree with you that output on non domain specific
               | tasks does not stand up to scrutiny. However, I often
               | have to remind people that gpt4, and chatgpt in
               | particular are not really llm's functioning at peak
               | performance. gpt3 was amazing before rlhf. i assume the
               | ungimped gpt4 was even better. Its unfortunate because it
               | has damaged the reputation of what would otherwise be
               | superhuman ai, so now everyone thinks ai is just a shitty
               | ghost writer for corporate safe spam.
               | 
               | Don't get tricked.
        
               | Hasu wrote:
               | > Domain experts get the most out of it. The average
               | person really can't use it well.
               | 
               | This is the exact opposite of what research has shown so
               | far. Top performers show productivity _decreases_ with
               | LLM assistance, lower performers and less experienced
               | users show a modest improvement. [0]
               | 
               | [0] https://www.nber.org/papers/w31161
        
               | hombre_fatal wrote:
               | I reckon the midwit meme applies here.
               | 
               | Noobs think AI is amazing.
               | 
               | Midwits who never bothered to try to leverage it or can't
               | evaluate it or just regurgitate what they hear think it's
               | shit. I wager these people don't create much so they
               | don't have a domain to really apply it, so they rely on
               | others to report how good/bad/useful/shit it is.
               | 
               | Then there are creators or tinkerers who've leveraged AI
               | to do obviously time-saving or amazing things understand
               | its power/potential and they have the receipts.
        
               | Kye wrote:
               | LLM output reminds me of the essays I had to write in
               | college. They tick all the boxes in a curriculum and
               | demonstrate a basic grasp on syntax, but they're hot
               | garbage. Your first encounter with an editor as a
               | professional or advanced hobbyist burns that away and
               | reveals the foundation of your true form as a writer.
               | 
               | LLMs are in desperate need of something that bridges that
               | gap if they're to do anything more than help people cheat
               | in college and annoy editors. At least for the purpose of
               | producing writing for use. They're great when I want to
               | scrape a web page and its links for archiving and need a
               | quick wget command line.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | As an often writer, what I find LLMs useful for is
               | creating an editable basis for
               | subtopics/intro/explanatory text for something I'm
               | reasonably familiar with and _could_ write certainly with
               | the help of some Googling around but might take me an
               | hour between various distractions. It doesn 't really
               | work to structure an article for me or to create novel
               | explanations/insights from e.g. data. But it does a
               | decent job a lot of the time with respect to various
               | necessary fleshing out.
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | You are oversimplified PP's vague language.
               | 
               | That paper shows that AI didn't help people who already
               | had the knowledge that then AI had.
               | 
               | High skill Experts (not customer service reps) use AI to
               | extend their knowledge, like using a new API.
        
           | refulgentis wrote:
           | To be fair the guy is speculating (n.b. suggest breaking that
           | first chunk up, it's about a page and half in a single
           | paragraph)
        
           | rolph wrote:
           | what is being called AI is nothing special its just another
           | script,just like cloud is just storage on another computer.
           | 
           | there was this mentalist act,[kreskin] as many are, the act
           | was a mind reading, clarivoyant number, backed by the same
           | thing "AI" does, i.e. statistical analysis, and ordering, of
           | information gained while evesdropping.
        
         | tetris11 wrote:
         | > Hopefully a human will respond soon
         | 
         | I wonder how quick the transition of HITL (Human in the loop)
         | to HOOTL will be.
        
           | michaelt wrote:
           | There will always be a 'request manual review' button.
           | 
           | It'll go to a call centre in the third world where workers
           | are expected to perform a review every 5 seconds.
        
         | jasode wrote:
         | _> My guess would be this is an overzealous AI-generated
         | content detector. _
         | 
         | Maybe not. If you go by the screenshot of the email from Amazon
         | in the Mastodon link, the book was removed for violating _"
         | Community Guidelines"_ instead of the actual content of the
         | book itself.
         | 
         | This is the _" Community Guidelines"_ url in that email:
         | https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
         | 
         | So taking Amazon's reason at face value, it means Amazon thinks
         | the author (or author's friends) manipulated the "community"
         | ... i.e. such as creating fake reviews, 5 stars ratings, etc.
         | 
         | An example of tripping the Amazon "community guidelines"
         | algorithm would be something like a suspicious # of reviews
         | coming from different Amazon customers but they're all from the
         | same ip address.
         | 
         | As an example of "inadvertently" setting off Amazon's community
         | guidelines detector... if you're going to ask friends & family
         | to leave positive reviews for your book, make sure they don't
         | do it while they're all there at your house for Thanksgiving
         | dinner.
         | 
         | In the email, the author offered to take down his reviews in
         | hopes that Amazon would reverse its decision.
        
           | Someone1234 wrote:
           | Seems like a nice way of killing a competitor's products.
        
         | DennisP wrote:
         | Here is Amazon's policy on AI-generated content:
         | 
         | > We require you to inform us of AI-generated content (text,
         | images, or translations) when you publish a new book or make
         | edits to and republish an existing book through KDP. AI-
         | generated images include cover and interior images and artwork.
         | You are not required to disclose AI-assisted content.
         | 
         | https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200672390
         | 
         | I personally know someone who published about a dozen AI-
         | generated Kindle books before being notified of this policy,
         | and none of it has been removed.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | That policy still seems clear as mud if you're using, say,
           | generative AI within Photoshop to help design components of a
           | cover design. I'm also not sure how that's really different
           | from using CC or public domain imagery as part of a design.
           | 
           | "AI-generated: We define AI-generated content as text,
           | images, or translations created by an AI-based tool. If you
           | used an AI-based tool to create the actual content (whether
           | text, images, or translations), it is considered "AI-
           | generated," even if you applied substantial edits
           | afterwards."
           | 
           | My reading of that is that, if you use AI to create any image
           | even in part, that's AI generated.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | WTF is the difference between AI-generated and AI-assisted.
           | Seems like a very murky distinction.
        
       | atlantic wrote:
       | As we're beginning to discover in our generation, censorship is
       | largely down to the individual censor, and if you're looking for
       | some kind of underlying rationale, you're wasting your time.
       | Censors too are sad bastards, and the one ray of dark sunshine in
       | their little lives is to make others miserable.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I have a feeling that this will be resolved soon.
       | 
       | Frontpage on HN tends to bring results.
       | 
       | I wish the authors luck, and would love to hear the resolution.
       | 
       | For myself, I haven't brought any books on Amazon for a long
       | time, but that's mostly because I dislike the Kindle app, so I
       | get my books through the Apple iBooks store.
        
       | lawgimenez wrote:
       | I forgot why I had a pdf of your cookbook, have you at some point
       | gave this out for free?
        
         | felurx wrote:
         | It is and afaik always has been available for free
        
           | lawgimenez wrote:
           | Oh got it. Thanks!
        
           | philistine wrote:
           | For years I made book versions of the articles on my website.
           | When came time to make the third volume, Amazon threw a
           | massive fit that my books were reusing content!
           | 
           | I ended up abandoning their bookmaking service for Lulu. My
           | books are still for sale on Amazon, but I'm not letting them
           | do anything with the printing.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | I ran into this with my first book on Amazon maybe a decade
             | ago. I reused/refined a lot of my blog content as well as
             | some material I published elsewhere. But I sent a bunch of
             | links to show that it was my byline and didn't have any
             | issue going forward.
        
         | hiyer wrote:
         | It's still free on itch.io
        
         | FumblingBear wrote:
         | It also made front page on HN a while back, maybe 6 months ago?
        
       | zillanovikov wrote:
       | Zilla here (one of the Sad Bastard Cookbook authors). Thanks so
       | much for your support ... I'm lowkey dropping "front page of
       | Hacker News" when I talk to Amazon Service reps now, in the vague
       | hope they have any power to actually help me. I think I've
       | reached at least one real person, but in the days of AI voice
       | chat, who can tell?
       | 
       | Many of you asked why we use Amazon as the exclusive
       | printer/distributor of the print edition. Variations of this
       | happened to basically every self-pub author I've met, so why
       | didn't I use another platform?
       | 
       | 1) Reach. As Ma8ee pointed out, there's literally dozens of
       | people buying books online but not on Amazon. If I want readers
       | to find it, I need to be on Amazon. Bonus, one of the most
       | important controlling factors in new people finding your book is
       | whether the Amazon promo algorithim suggests the book to them, so
       | any sale off Amazon doesn't contribute to building an avalanche.
       | The game's rigged, but it's the only game in town.
       | 
       | 2) Money/quality. Last time I checked (few years back, things
       | might have changed), Draft2Digital print books were bad quality.
       | Ingram print books are decent quality but their calculation for
       | printing fees and royalties means they usually don't pay out at
       | nearly the same rate. I've not compared directly for the
       | Cookbook, but for Instant Classic, it's the difference between
       | making a couple dollars or a couple cents. We did it for Instant
       | Classic as a service for people who despise Amazon, but the
       | royalties from the Cookbook are a substantial factor in "eating"
       | and "making rent" for one of the Cookbook team, so there's a
       | limit to how much I want to give away the print edition of the
       | Cookbook. Especially if "giving it away" involves the reader
       | paying Ingram, just not us. If anyone knows a print-on-demand
       | distributor who pays out enough in royalties for authors to make
       | money, please respond to this.
       | 
       | 3) Distribution. We're small fry self-pub, without a big
       | publishing house behind us. I've looked around for places which
       | will take us on self-pub books and distribute them, and the
       | options are pretty limited. I'm convinced we'd sell in brick-and-
       | mortar stores, but that's typically not an option for self-pub
       | unless you approach the owner of an independent bookshop on an
       | individual basis. (We approached a couple proper distributors who
       | accept query letters from non-traditionally published books, but
       | they focused on specific genres and we weren't the right fit.)
       | Basically, if you're not traditionally published, you're looking
       | at Amazon, Ingram, or Draft2Digital to print and distribute your
       | books. If anyone knows of other printer/distributors which take
       | self-pub books, PLEASE tell me.
       | 
       | ETA: people are informing me that Ingram can make money, and that
       | Lulu exists. I am investigating.
        
         | wishfish wrote:
         | I've had good luck with Lulu. My experience was short-runs. I
         | sometimes like to make custom notebooks for myself and friends.
         | But the quality was good. Lulu will print spiral fold flat
         | editions. Might come in handy for a cookbook.
         | 
         | I've also had good luck with Blurb. They do high quality
         | photobooks. Which isn't what you're selling, but I'm mentioning
         | them because they will offer your book for sale, print-on-
         | demand, via their site. And wouldn't be surprised if they have
         | a way of selling via Amazon. They wouldn't be a bad choice if
         | you wanted to sell a $50+ coffee table edition of your
         | cookbook. Or a bit lower for a paperback edition.
        
           | zillanovikov wrote:
           | Oh thank you, I'll look into that!
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | I'll second both LuLu and Blurb for photo books though it's
             | been quite a while since I used either. (I've usually used
             | Blurb but I did go with LuLu once or twice for reasons I
             | forget.)
        
         | ilamont wrote:
         | Indie publisher here. Sorry to hear about this. Among the
         | numerous frustrations that publishers and sellers report when
         | dealing with Amazon, automated lockouts are near the top of the
         | list. Inability to get a clear explanation or knowledgeable
         | human support are close behind.
         | 
         | I always tell other publishers that Amazon's seller tech is
         | like a rickety roller coaster with lots of kludged together
         | components - built to go fast, but with lots of loose bits that
         | rattle and sometimes cause the system to fail. Technology
         | glitches, bad UI design, poor communication, and complex policy
         | requirements lead to a huge support burden. Even if you can get
         | a good Amazon support agent, they are not always able to
         | diagnose certain problems, let alone provide a fix.
         | 
         | The parts of the company facing small publishers and third-
         | party sellers is extremely siloed, which makes things even
         | worse for sellers trying to get through complex issues touching
         | multiple services. Reporting something like "I can't get Amazon
         | Advertising to connect with my KDP account" can lead to
         | runarounds that require multiple tickets or are never solved.
         | 
         | Regarding distribution: I don't use a distributor owing to the
         | lead time required and the huge commissions involved, but a few
         | I know work with IPG (https://www.ipgbook.com/). If you have a
         | track record of sales, that can open the door to distribution
         | and potentially help get through the Amazon problems you are
         | experiencing as they have direct contacts with back-end Amazon
         | staff.
        
         | Aloha wrote:
         | Had I known bout this book before it got removed, I would have
         | bought a copy.
        
       | andsoitis wrote:
       | > Reaching a human at Amazon is a Kafkaesque experience
       | 
       | Material for their next book!
        
       | ArtemZ wrote:
       | Ok how do I order the book now? Why there is no website to buy it
       | directly?
        
       | juunpp wrote:
       | They should re-publish is as The Sad Motherfucker's Cookbook.
       | There are a lot of sad motherfuckers out there who could use some
       | skill.
        
       | OJFord wrote:
       | > Amazon in all its wisdom has taken down the Sad Bastard
       | Cookbook. They won't tell us why.
       | 
       | I mean.. I assume it's right there in the title?
       | 
       | Not that there isn't other stuff available with such words, but
       | there's not _much_ , and the bar/automation might be higher for
       | self-published or other 'indie' stuff? (If anyone's interested in
       | jars of 300 F's to give or not, by the way...)
        
       | ao98 wrote:
       | If your first thought was "what is The Sad Bastard Cookbook",
       | here's an except (and yes, totally worth fighting for :)
       | 
       | "Life is hard. Some days are at the absolute limit of what we can
       | manage. Some days are worse than that. Eating--picking a meal,
       | making it, putting it into your facehole--can feel like an
       | insurmountable challenge. We wrote this cookbook to share our
       | coping strategies. It has recipes to make when you've worked a
       | 16-hour day, when you can't stop crying and you don't know why,
       | when you accidentally woke up an Eldritch abomination at the
       | bottom of the ocean. But most of all, this cookbook exists to
       | help Sad Bastards like us feel a little less alone at mealtimes.
       | 
       | The Sad Bastard Cookbook is funny, realistic, and kind. It's
       | vegetarian/vegan. It's a community-built project. And the e-book
       | is free. It's hard to survive late capitalism and we want to
       | help."
        
         | dotancohen wrote:
         | Interesting correlation, by the time I got to "when you can't
         | stop crying and you don't know why" I thought to myself the
         | cookbook had better be vegetarian. Is there a known correlation
         | between emotional distress and vegetarianism or veganism?
        
           | ao98 wrote:
           | That's a good question (and I don't know the answer). As a
           | practical matter, if you're strapped for time, having fresh
           | meats on the ready isn't practical. And canned/frozen aren't
           | great options.
           | 
           | The opposite holds true for many veggies because they are
           | seasonal - for big portions of the year, canned or frozen are
           | the best you can get. Beans/lentils, dried or canned, etc.
        
             | dotancohen wrote:
             | > As a practical matter, if you're strapped for time,
             | having fresh meats on the ready isn't practical
             | 
             | I usually have some form of pastrami in a well sealed
             | container in the refrigerator, this is one of my
             | ingredients for a need-a-quick-to-prepare-meal. They last
             | for weeks if properly sealed.
             | 
             | But my point wasn't really about the fitness of the
             | specific ingredients, rather, why would I associate those
             | with emotional distress with vegetarians? My wife and
             | daughter are vegetarians and I have no negative
             | associations with that lifestyle. But looking back, many
             | emotionally distressed people that I've met have been
             | vegetarians I think, thought I do not imply that the
             | association also goes the other way.
             | 
             | I wonder if there have been studies on correlations - I
             | should not have been able to predict that.
        
             | semi-extrinsic wrote:
             | > As a practical matter, if you're strapped for time,
             | having fresh meats on the ready isn't practical. And
             | canned/frozen aren't great options.
             | 
             | At least where I live, you can get excellent quality canned
             | soup with meat, like goulash or chicken noodle soup.
             | 
             | Also, cured meats like salami or prosciutto have long shelf
             | life in the fridge and are excellent for throwing together
             | quick pasta recipes. Cook pasta, slice a little salami, fry
             | salami in the pan with some oil, maybe add some chili
             | flakes or garlic or fennel seeds, put the al dente pasta
             | and a splash of pasta water in the frying pan, cook for two
             | minutes more, done.
             | 
             | Also raw eggs last more than a month in the fridge. Hard
             | cheese lasts indefinitely if packaged well. Dry cured slab
             | bacon is good for at least a month. And so on.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _Is there a known correlation between emotional distress
           | and vegetarianism or veganism?_
           | 
           | Apparently yes [1][2].
           | 
           | [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36045075/
           | 
           | [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-63910-y
        
             | dotancohen wrote:
             | That is amazing, I thought that I should not be able to
             | predict that. Thank you.
        
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