[HN Gopher] A pair of DeepMind scientists talking with investors...
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       A pair of DeepMind scientists talking with investors about forming
       an AI startup
        
       Author : geox
       Score  : 31 points
       Date   : 2024-01-19 20:54 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
        
       | BXlnt2EachOther wrote:
       | from the article, the scientists are Laurent Sifre and Karl
       | Tuyls.
       | 
       | edit to add: the source for this is "people familiar with the
       | matter"
        
       | gumballindie wrote:
       | In France. Seems like the UK has become completely irrelevant.
       | Well done!
       | 
       | On a serious note, they should leave Google. That company is on a
       | steady decline, as seen in their products.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | This is Google's constant struggle in the AI space. They can hire
       | the best talent and give them exorbitant salaries, but by virtue
       | of already being a $2T company their stock price is simply not
       | going to make a 100x jump no matter what they produce. Even if an
       | AI researcher at the company doesn't care about power or
       | independence or anything of that sort, just from a financial
       | perspective it makes a lot more sense for them to join a startup
       | or found their own. Just look at how many of the authors of all
       | the seminal AI papers from Google Brain are still at the company.
       | If you are a top mind in the AI space why would you want to share
       | the spoils of your work equally with 200K other Google employees?
       | 
       | In order to have a fighting chance Google needs to spin off their
       | AI efforts and issue stock independent of $GOOG.
        
         | waynesonfire wrote:
         | Why doesn't GOOG spin them off?
         | 
         | Now that I think about it, it seems this might be precisely
         | what's occurring. It's possible the approach involves the
         | Scientists "independently" seeking funding, resulting in their
         | Director being sidelined, while the upper echelons of
         | leadership have the opportunity to invest in the start-up. The
         | same leadership that initiated the oppertunity.
         | 
         | Anyway, all hypothetical but this is what I'd do.
        
         | jorblumesea wrote:
         | I don't think that's google's problem. Smart talented people
         | are usually more concerned with things like pace of work,
         | culture, freedom to do what they want to do, impact, etc.
         | Working in a large company is absolutely stifling.
         | 
         | Google has all the top talent and was caught flat footed by
         | smaller, nimbler organizations.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Google Brain clearly had the culture over the last decade and
           | a half that resulted in basically 100% of the AI
           | breakthroughs we are seeing today, and all the top minds in
           | the field had no problem working there. What changed in the
           | span of a couple years? Only that the tech became production-
           | ready and the rest of the world took notice, and these
           | researchers and engineers decided that they no longer needed
           | Google's money since there was so much available from
           | everywhere else. This is what directly led to the founding of
           | OpenAI, Anthropic, Cohere, Adept and probably hundreds of
           | other small to mid sized AI startups. There isn't really
           | anything in terms of cultural or organization changes that
           | Google could have done to prevent this.
        
             | kajecounterhack wrote:
             | > There isn't really anything in terms of cultural or
             | organization changes that Google could have done to prevent
             | this.
             | 
             | If you're familiar with the political infighting between
             | Brain, Deepmind, and subteams within Brain, you'd know
             | there was a lot of room for improvement.
             | 
             | Also Google would benefit from being able to use and build
             | off more open source stuff. Tensorflow losing to Torch for
             | researchers was a pretty big blow imo.
             | 
             | Macro cultural trends at Google didn't help either. Stuff
             | like not incentivizing work with longer term payoffs, and
             | too many layers of middle management.
             | 
             | > Only that the tech became production-ready and the rest
             | of the world took notice, and these researchers and
             | engineers decided that they no longer needed Google's money
             | since there was so much available from everyone else.
             | 
             | All that said this is very true and probably unavoidable.
        
             | Mechanical9 wrote:
             | There have been significant changes in culture and (at
             | least perceived) job stability in the past two years
             | specifically. See the significant layoffs in early 2023 and
             | the surprising and completely unnecessary layoffs that just
             | happened a week ago. Transparency about decision-making is
             | now basically non-existent. The literal only communication
             | from the CEO was that there will be more layoffs.
             | 
             | Travel budgets are also non-existent now.
             | 
             | All in all, it's still a good job. But it is significantly
             | worse that before, and the trajectory does not seem great.
        
         | riku_iki wrote:
         | > In order to have a fighting chance Google needs to spin off
         | their AI efforts and issue stock independent of $GOOG.
         | 
         | deepmind was kinda independent for many years burning billions
         | of dollars. Now they put them on payroll as other employees.
        
       | juujian wrote:
       | Good for them.
        
       | surfingdino wrote:
       | The EU is not exactly the place where tech unicorns come from.
       | Could it be France's gamble on becoming an independent AI power,
       | just like they did with advanced weapons and nuclear energy?
        
         | mrtksn wrote:
         | Just because it's not happening in the Anglo-sphere doesn't
         | mean its not happening. France always has been a tech giant,
         | both in traditional hard tech and computer technology. They had
         | something like the web before the web for example.
         | 
         | Also, notice how many big names in the AI field have funny
         | accents and non-American names. Maybe startups go to the USA to
         | become Unicorns but a lot is happening in Europe, especially in
         | talent.
         | 
         | I recall listening to Mistral CEO, who also happens to be
         | French, explaining that UK, France and Poland are very good at
         | training mathematicians and as a result they happen to have
         | access to a good talent pool in EU. He also said that many
         | people don't want to go to the US because of the food, safety
         | and other aspect that make EU nice place to be at.
        
       | zombiwoof wrote:
       | Can't wait till they fire each other and make nice and build our
       | AI overlords
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/GOgIf
        
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