[HN Gopher] History Is Written by the Losers (2016)
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       History Is Written by the Losers (2016)
        
       Author : delichon
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2024-01-18 15:54 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (scholars-stage.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (scholars-stage.org)
        
       | growingkittens wrote:
       | Sima Qian chose suffering and mutilation over death to complete
       | his life's work.
       | 
       | The written word can persist throughout space and time. What will
       | happen to our digital archives?
        
         | AA-BA-94-2A-56 wrote:
         | Even paper needs shelter. It must be kept from moths, because
         | they eat holes in it. It must be kept from humidity, because it
         | causes the fibres to expand and the ink to run.
         | 
         | It stands to reason that Sima Qian, if he cared about
         | posterity, would have submitted his works to people who make it
         | a point on preserving records.
         | 
         | Similarly a person is writing a digital work, they will need to
         | go through a digital analogue of the same process, if they want
         | to preserve their work.
         | 
         | The process of bit entropy acts like digital moths.
        
           | growingkittens wrote:
           | In 100 years with minimal, passive effort, a piece of paper
           | will be fragile, but usable.
           | 
           | In 100 years, a hard drive will degrade without multiple
           | transfers to new media - an active process.
           | 
           | The barrier to digital archival is much higher than paper
           | archival for the average person, and the internet _does_
           | forget. There 's not really an equivalent authority who
           | preserves records for digital works, is there? The Internet
           | Archive works toward this goal, but their mission is not
           | enshrined anywhere permanent and could be gutted.
        
             | geodel wrote:
             | Yes. The amount of digital data will be like, I don't know,
             | 10 order of magnitude more than paper content. So I think
             | archiving even 0.00001% for long term maybe tall order.
        
       | jbandela1 wrote:
       | Also don't forget Anna Komnene.
       | 
       | She was the oldest daughter of Alexios I (who unwittingly kicked
       | off the Crusades).
       | 
       | After unsuccessfully trying to overthrow her younger brother, she
       | was exiled to a monastery where she ended up writing the Alexiad
       | which provides much of our information about the early crusades
       | including first hand descriptions of some of the key players as
       | well as as weapons and tactics.
        
       | MilStdJunkie wrote:
       | Tanner is one of those people I might disagree politically with
       | from time to time but who nevertheless convinces me of the
       | alternative point of view regularly. I see he disses my man
       | Herodotus right off, so now I need to read this to see why.
       | 
       | There is, of course, a margin of "losing" from which no history
       | can return. Anyone know about Khazar history? What happened to
       | those guys? The Mongols happened.
       | 
       | His series on the Soviet "cybernetics" movement was also
       | fascinating.
        
         | miroljub wrote:
         | > Anyone know about Khazar history? What happened to those
         | guys? The Mongols happened.
         | 
         | No. The Russians happened. Mongols came later.
         | 
         | And rest assured Khazars did not disappear. According to some
         | theories they infiltrate governments of the world and they are
         | ruling the world. You just need to read the true sources, not
         | some fake history. :)
        
           | beretguy wrote:
           | Would you mind providing links to those "true sources",
           | please? I'm curious to do some research for myself.
        
             | bazoom42 wrote:
             | They are probably alluding to antisemitic conspiracy
             | therories.
        
             | shakow wrote:
             | He is probably alluding to the Khazar hypothesis, according
             | to which at least part of the Eastern European (and thus
             | Ashkenazi in general) Jews have Khazar ascendancy.
             | 
             | The scale is very much subject to discussion, but genetic
             | evidences[0] support the core idea.
             | 
             | [0] https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/5/1/75/730630
        
             | fjoireoipe wrote:
             | they are probably referencing an antisemitic conspiracy
             | theory. I can't tell whether as a joke, or seriously. In
             | any case, it should probably be downvoted, or dang should
             | remove it. it's psuedohistory, invented to spead hate.
        
               | tut-urut-utut wrote:
               | I think it's obviously it's a joke. However, there's even
               | a smiley at the end of the comment, as a clue for the
               | people with broken humour detector. I hope you saw it.
        
         | korse wrote:
         | Why is cybernetics quoted?
        
           | MilStdJunkie wrote:
           | Had a different shade of meaning in the Soviet context from
           | the way we use the word today - more like "Computer Science"
           | or "Automatic Theory", rather than robotic or human-robotic
           | or "cyberpunky".
        
             | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
             | It had the same different meaning outside the Soviet
             | context too. Check out, for example, Norbert Wiener, as
             | American as they come and considered the inventor of
             | "cybernetics" in that "old-school" sense.
        
               | korse wrote:
               | https://bailiping.github.io/assets/docs/Books/Cybernetics
               | ,%2...
        
             | korse wrote:
             | I'm pretty sure the Soviet context is actually the correct
             | one. The robotics tie in isn't far off though, as some of
             | the earliest autonomous mobile robots spawned from
             | cybernetics research.
        
               | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
               | > I'm pretty sure the Soviet context is actually the
               | correct one.
               | 
               | Just to clarify, do you mean that the Soviet context is
               | the same as the modern context or that the modern context
               | misuses the term in some way (or something else that I
               | missed)?
        
       | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
       | > A man dies only once
       | 
       | Interesting words from a man who has died but of whom we still
       | speak. And fitting that they come from a person who some say
       | invented history; there wouldn't have been counterexamples.
        
       | wtbdrgb wrote:
       | History is written by the corrupt and corrupted and those who
       | still have to survive.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _History Is Written by the Losers (2016)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21228034 - Oct 2019 (20
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _History is Written by the Losers_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13037214 - Nov 2016 (17
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Thucydides Roundtable, Book IV: History Is Written by the
       | Losers_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13011872 - Nov
       | 2016 (47 comments)
        
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