[HN Gopher] Cancer Alley
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Cancer Alley
Author : Red_Tarsius
Score : 121 points
Date : 2024-01-17 19:17 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
| johnea wrote:
| Is a link to a wikipedia page really "news"?
| fsflover wrote:
| _What to Submit
|
| On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting.
| That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to
| reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that
| gratifies one's intellectual curiosity._
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| shapenamer wrote:
| linking random wiki articles with 0 context is extremely common
| and seemingly accepted on HN. Always confused me as well but
| /shrug.
| tempestn wrote:
| You're not really expected to provide context when posting to
| HN. If something's interesting, it's interesting. I think of
| the Wikipedia articles as implicit "TIL" posts.
| shapenamer wrote:
| It seems like lowest effort submission possible to me. It's
| not really related to tech news at all. There's no recent
| news or changes. The op didn't post anything about why they
| found it interesting. The conversation happening here is
| sparse and not interesting. Aside from the fact that I've
| had comments downvoted for "being low effort" in the past.
| People can find anything interesting but not everything is
| a good submission to HN.
| quickthrower2 wrote:
| Probably the best kind of news IMO
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Long Island (where I live), is likely just as bad, but probably
| from the water (as opposed to the air).
|
| But we have a _lot_ of billionaires, and developers, with
| significant investment in local real estate.
|
| I'm sure that has nothing to do with how quiet things are, about
| it.
| RyanHamilton wrote:
| The richest live at the very end in the cleanest area:
| https://www.savethesound.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/MapC...
| though the good news it's been getting better.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Lots in Northern Nassau (Gold Coast), like Muttontown, Old
| Brookville, Locust Valley, etc.
|
| New money is out East. Old money is nearer the city.
| nickjj wrote:
| Where would you say in LI is just as bad or comparable or at
| higher risk than average?
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Nassau County, for sure. I know there's at least one town
| that is a known breast cancer hotspot.
|
| I was attending a gathering, about two years ago, that had a
| lot of folks (about 40), attending remotely. Mostly women;
| many immuno-compromised.
|
| I remember looking at the remote attendees screen, and
| counting the women that were currently getting, or had just
| gotten over, cancer treatment.
|
| I counted six. I also knew of a couple of men, sitting in the
| room with me, that had had treatment, over a year,
| previously.
|
| I don't know what the average is supposed to be, but I think
| 6/60 (10%), is a wee bit high.
| throwup238 wrote:
| _> I don 't know what the average is supposed to be, but I
| think 6/60 (10%), is a wee bit high._
|
| The going estimate is that Americans have a 40% chance of
| getting cancer in their lifetimes [1] so it really depends
| on the age distribution of the sample. For an older group,
| 10% might not be that high.
|
| [1] https://www.cancer.gov/about-
| cancer/understanding/statistics
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Well, it's certainly "fuzzy" enough, that folks can say
| "We don't have any _proof_! ".
|
| I will say that New York is the best damn place on Earth
| to get cancer treatment. I've seen many, many people
| fight cancer, since I moved here, but only a few have
| died.
| croisillon wrote:
| 20% of the article have been removed on September 6th
| sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote:
| Which means?
| croisillon wrote:
| i don't know enough about the topic to derive any meaning
| unfortunately
| CharlesW wrote:
| Here are the changes: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
| title=Cancer_Alley&diff...
| iambateman wrote:
| > Louisiana Chemical Association President Greg Bowser responded
| to President Biden's remarks on the region, refuting claims that
| residents of the industrial corridor have a higher risk of
| developing cancer in multiple articles.
|
| I don't doubt his sincerity...but this illustrates how far people
| are willing to go to keep power. It is sad to think that a person
| would ignore evidence that their business kills people to protect
| profit. This is why we need strong regulatory bodies.
| candiddevmike wrote:
| "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his
| salary depends on his not understanding it."
|
| Solving this problem, along with nurturing a more empathetic
| culture in general, would really move our species forward IMO
| rqtwteye wrote:
| "I don't doubt his sincerity."
|
| You should doubt it. This guy knows exactly what's going on but
| chooses to lie blatantly for profit. Same applies to oil execs,
| tobacco execs, fast food industry execs, US health insurance
| execs, chemical industry execs and many others. They know
| exactly that they are damaging the environment and/or killing
| millions of people but they prefer profit. And somehow we as a
| society let them get away with it.
| jodrellblank wrote:
| > " _It is sad to think that a person would ignore evidence
| that their business kills people to protect profit._ "
|
| Saudi Arabia has pledged to bring down their fossil fuel
| emissions, publicly launching the "Saudi Green Initiative" in
| 2022, signing the Paris Climate agreement, endorsing the UN's
| climate goals.
|
| They've also seen that there's a "risk" of reduced oil demand
| around the world and quietly setup the "Oil-demand
| Sustainability Program" to "artificially stimulate demand in
| some key markets", (promote combustion engine cars and aircraft
| travel in Africa and South East Asia) and their energy minister
| wants them to be "the last man standing, and every molecule of
| hydrocarbon will come out".
|
| They have a 46 point plan to promote oil, spanning 17
| government entities, including things like investing in roads
| and airports, making sure ICE (gas/diesel) engines are low-cost
| and competitive potentially a JV with a car OEM to make a low-
| cost ICE car, supporting low-cost airlines, restarting
| development of supersonic aircraft because they use so much
| fuel, establishing local ICE car part manufacturing facilities
| which will have an oil uplift, accelerate deployment of last-
| mile delivery and ride-hailing apps in underserved markets and
| "ensure the deployment of an ICE-fleet", "support the
| deployment of bus transportation across developing countries to
| capture the increasing diesel demand", support research to make
| marine Heavy Fuel Oil (HFO) scrubbers cheaper than switching to
| LNG or biofuels and promote regulations that allow continued
| use of HFO, etc. etc.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aT0r_yJafmg
| poulpy123 wrote:
| I'm confused to why there is also a french name. I get that it
| was french at one point but it was 200 years ago, and afaik very
| little people in the area still speak french
| sp332 wrote:
| Well, the whole place is still called Baton Rouge. Anyway there
| are a few French speakers left.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Louisiana_parishes_by_...
| poulpy123 wrote:
| More than I was aware !
| gwbas1c wrote:
| There are a lot of colloquialisms that come from French, or mix
| in French terms.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Codofil would like a word.
| Red_Tarsius wrote:
| I just saw this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT9mrbIxeBE
| and it sounded like an interesting topic to bring on HN. I didn't
| know about the "Cancer Alley" in Louisiana, but I figure most
| countries have their own alleys of death. I live in Italy and
| Taranto is notorious for this reason. The city was home to one of
| biggest steel producers in Europe. The local economy revolved
| around the steel plant, but people from the sorrounding
| neighbourhoods have suffered from abnormally high rates of cancer
| and respiratory illnesses for decades. After a trial which shed
| light on the environmental disaster, the government seized the
| plant in 2012. Long story short, its fate has been in a limbo
| since then.
| tremon wrote:
| Although not quite as drastic, same with the IJmuiden region in
| Noord-Holland (originally Koninklijke Hoogovens, "Royal
| Furnaces" -- just as royal as Shell) [0]:
|
| > Due to exposure to particulate matter and nitrogen dioxide
| emitted from the Tata Steel site, Wijk aan Zee residents have a
| life expectancy that is 2.5 months lower on average
|
| > approximately 4% of the future cases of lung cancer in Wijk
| aan Zee will be attributable to the current emissions of
| particulate matter
|
| > around 3% of future [asthma] cases will be associated with
| the current emissions
|
| And currently, also DuPunt/Chemours in Dordrecht [1]:
|
| > Chemours, which spun off from its legal predecessor Dupont
| (DD.N), opens new tab in 2015 to regroup the latter's
| performance chemical business, complied with its permit before
| July 1984 but that after that it should have better informed
| the towns surrounding its chemical plant in the city of
| Dordrecht
|
| And separately, there is an investigation against the local
| government because then-DuPont was tacitly allowed to exceed
| the amount of pollution granted by their permit.
|
| [0] https://www.rivm.nl/publicaties/bijdrage-van-tata-steel-
| nede...
|
| [1] https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/dutch-court-
| rule...
|
| (edit: found link in English)
| animatedb wrote:
| sorrownding: neat
| derbOac wrote:
| I wonder about the historical trends in these types of zones.
| Presumably they didn't exist prior to the industrial
| revolution?
| dekhn wrote:
| I would expect that mining, leather-producing and dye-
| producing areas may very well have seen similar types of
| toxic waste leading to negative health outcomes even before
| large scale industrialization. And the areas downstream.
|
| Here's an example of a mine that has had toxic runoff likely
| for millenia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Tinto_(river)
| at least partly due to human mining activity. I would expect
| that people living downstream of the mine would have negative
| health outcomes, possibly without being aware.
| peterfirefly wrote:
| Certain biocides were a problem:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordeaux_mixture
|
| (This one was invented after the Industrial Revolution
| started but it was used far away from most factories.)
| max_ wrote:
| As humans our days on this planet are numbered.
|
| It surprises me how we are all sleep walking to extinction and
| "the masses" truly don't give a damn?
| LASR wrote:
| Recently I've been fascinated at some of the long-term space
| missions that various space agency plan.
|
| Some of these missions span multiple decades simply because of
| the nature of space travel.
|
| A burning question in my mind: how does one get motivated to
| work on something that they'll probably not even live to see
| come to fruition/failure? Personally, I wouldn't be, unless if
| there was some pay involved.
|
| Dealing with climate change is like this. Humans, I think are
| basically unable to align behind initiatives that do not affect
| us immediately.
|
| I am a parent. I would like to set up my child for success. But
| being brutally honest, it's hard for me to even think of what
| going "above and beyond" means in this respect. I would do
| everything a normal good parent would do. But then what?
|
| Nobody is paying people to use less plastic or stop polluting
| etc. So few are incentivized to do anything above and beyond
| the normal. Superficial things like not using plastic - sure no
| problem. Keeping a 5 year old phone or wearing worn out shoes -
| I'll have trouble with these.
| supertofu wrote:
| > A burning question in my mind: how does one get motivated
| to work on something that they'll probably not even live to
| see come to fruition/failure? Personally, I wouldn't be,
| unless if there was some pay involved.
|
| "The wise man plants a tree whose shade only his
| grandchildren will enjoy."
|
| Some humans are capable of great compassion for the people
| who will come after us. That is the impetus to create a
| better world for our children's children (even those of us
| who don't even have children).
|
| Compassion. Concern for the well-being of the people who will
| inherit the world when we are gone. Empathy combined with a
| sense of duty. Some people have those qualities innately.
| Many people don't.
| herpdyderp wrote:
| Many of the masses do give a damn. But there's not much they
| can realistically do to make a meaningful difference.
| saluki wrote:
| One of my friends were in St. Judes in Memphis for cancer
| treatment. I was there visiting multiple times and would talk to
| lots of other families whose children were getting treatment and
| I was stunned by the large percentage who were from New Orleans
| or Baton Rouge and many with fathers who mentioned they worked at
| a chemical plant. My friend had stage IV cancer, St. Judes did an
| amazing job they are still in remission after this initial
| treatment in the 1990s.
| somethoughts wrote:
| I found this insightful:
|
| Why Louisiana Stays Poor
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWTic9btP38
|
| Definitely sounds very similar to CPG's "Rules for Ruler" video
| where he provides a description of rulers ruling in resource rich
| countries.
| tschwimmer wrote:
| Somewhat related, True Detective season 1 is set in this area.
| Reading this article made me realize that the the cinematography
| is very effective in using the pollution as a metaphor for social
| decay. Some stills:
|
| https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/3FleEbfQmPxX0b0pXp--7OF3...
|
| https://gerryco23.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/true-detective...
| jklinger410 wrote:
| According to the way that "fault" works in the United States, the
| people who live in these areas are at fault for choosing to live
| there. All property values should be adjusted to account for
| increased levels of cancer.
|
| Where you choose to live, what you choose to eat, whether or not
| you use air filters on your home, these are all personal
| decisions that you must make in order to protect yourself.
|
| It's your choice as a free American!
| paxys wrote:
| You get what you vote for
| ipnon wrote:
| In the spirit of hacking, can this be moved to orbit? What would
| make the economics work out? What would be the environmental
| effects?
| ww-picard-do wrote:
| Are you suggesting we send crude oil into space, refine it and
| then bring back?
| cmpb wrote:
| Strange seeing not just my state, but my hometown, rising on HN.
| Sad, too.
|
| Related: For those interested in point-and-click / text-based
| games, check out the game NORCO, which is about the city Norco
| (named for the refinery that graces its skyline), a suburb of New
| Orleans. It's actually an extremely accurate representation of
| the socioeconomics of the area (which is painful to admit), and
| has some truly gorgeous pixel art.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norco_(video_game)
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(page generated 2024-01-17 23:00 UTC)