[HN Gopher] Spotted water hemlock: the most toxic plant in North...
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       Spotted water hemlock: the most toxic plant in North America (2017)
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 69 points
       Date   : 2024-01-15 17:51 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
        
       | waingake wrote:
       | Sounds like it has the same effect on mammals as fly spray does
       | on insects?
       | 
       | i.e death via full body convulsions
        
         | EA-3167 wrote:
         | It disrupts the nervous system, so in that sense it is similar.
         | There is a fundamental difference in action though, pesticides
         | (like most nerve agents) are based on a structure called an
         | organophosphate (general structure O=P(OR)3 ). Most pesticides
         | and nerve agents act on something called acetylcholine (ACh) or
         | the enzyme that breaks it down, called acetylcholineesteraste
         | (AChE). There are other classes though, such as sodium channel
         | blockers, and in the case of water hemlock it's a bit strange.
         | 
         | No one is 100% sure just what the mechanism is, but it appears
         | to have something to do with GABA. In particular cicutoxin (the
         | active molecule) seems to hyper-excite the receptors involving
         | GABA, which leads to seizures and death. It's interesting in
         | that sense, it's much more violent than most nerve agents, for
         | which the seizures and so on are just side-effects, not the
         | lethal mechanism.
        
           | Traubenfuchs wrote:
           | > In particular cicutoxin (the active molecule) seems to
           | hyper-excite the receptors involving GABA
           | 
           | Other way round. Cicutoxin is an ANTagonist to GABA
           | receptors, pretty much the opposite of classical sleeping
           | pills (benzodiazepines and z-drugs). As such, taking it is
           | probably extremely similar to delirium tremens, the
           | potentially deadly manifestation of alcohol, benzo or z-drug
           | withdrawal after severe addiction. A horrid way to go.
           | 
           | Hyper excitation of GABA receptors would lead to coma and
           | potentially death via cardiac arrest or pulmonary aspiration
           | -if it happens, death by benzo overdose must be a truly
           | gentle death, but rather unreliable even with extreme dosages
           | I would assume.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicutoxin
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_overdose
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delirium_tremens
        
       | aschla wrote:
       | "Within the expansive Apiaceae family are some of the tastiest
       | ... food plants in the world: ..., celery..."
       | 
       | Hmm, we have different tastes.
        
         | nsajko wrote:
         | It's pretty big as a seasoning/spice.
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | Tastes like soap. So, big for people who like soap.
        
             | BenjiWiebe wrote:
             | Are you thinking of cilantro? Never heard anyone say that
             | of celery, only cilantro.
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | Cilantro too.
        
             | jrflowers wrote:
             | Exactly, the famously soap-tasting vegetable... carrot
        
         | MarkusWandel wrote:
         | Is there some genetic condition that makes you hate the taste
         | of pretty much all that plant family? I like a very slight
         | anise flavour in cookies, and carrots are pretty versatile, but
         | all of the others are on my "everybody but me loves them but
         | you can ruin any dish with them" list.
        
         | CydeWeys wrote:
         | Celery is one of the main vegetables in mirepoix (an essential
         | part of French and French-influenced cooking), soffritto (an
         | essential part of Italian cooking used for most sauces), and is
         | also used in many soups, stocks, and stews. I think you like it
         | a lot more than you realize; you're just only thinking of
         | eating it whole, raw.
        
           | bitshiftfaced wrote:
           | Right, it's an "aromatic," and many dishes wouldn't taste
           | right without it. Or, if you only ever eat dishes that don't
           | call for it, I feel sorry for you.
        
           | EA-3167 wrote:
           | Even raw it can be lovely, _very_ finely diced into something
           | like egg or chicken salad. It adds a bit of savory crunch, a
           | lightness and some of that aromatic zip.
           | 
           | Finely diced pickle can do the same thing though, for people
           | who _really_ hate celery.
        
         | janalsncm wrote:
         | I used to think like this. It's mainly because my only
         | encounters with celery were teachers who thought celery and
         | peanut butter was a good "snack" for kids. Gross.
         | 
         | But in cooking, it's great. The purpose of celery is to break
         | up the rush of flavor that sauce brings. For example in a stir
         | fry, meat and rice tend to take on the flavor of the sauce (or
         | even become enhanced by it). Celery does not. Sauce doesn't
         | stick to it. Celery adds dynamics to a dish by adding a pause
         | to the flavor. And in the context of a mouth full of meat and
         | sauce and rice and peppers, celery gives it all meaning by
         | being none of that.
        
       | jinpa_zangpo wrote:
       | And prescribed in homeopathy under the name Cicuta Virosa.
       | 
       | (https://plankhomeopathy.com/blog/cicuta-virosa/)
        
         | zoky wrote:
         | Well to be fair that's literally just water...
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | > Homeopathic medicines are prepared by potentization where the
         | dynamic curative power of the medication is aroused, so
         | homeopathic medicines produce negligible side effects.
         | 
         | Well, that makes me feel better.
        
           | bigbillheck wrote:
           | Good news, the regular effects are also negligible.
        
             | klyrs wrote:
             | To be fair, most of us tend to be dehydrated, so some
             | beneficial effect is expected
        
         | 3-cheese-sundae wrote:
         | Im guessing nobody dies from this, since 30C is water.
         | 
         | The catch is that they're also without any benefit, and they're
         | poorer to boot.
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | With less money to poison themselves with, then. Among those
           | who don't know any better than to buy from homeopaths, that
           | may make the difference.
        
         | mirekrusin wrote:
         | Nice one.
         | 
         | Homeopathic snake oils are diluted so many times they pretty
         | much guarantee there are no traces of original substance left
         | (they believe the more times it is diluted, the more potent
         | healing powers it gets). I think default is 30 times dilution,
         | each time with ratio 1:100, so you're left with 1e-60 of
         | original, so if you'd put all atoms from milky way (1e68) and
         | start homeopathic them, you'd be left with number of atoms that
         | make ie. a virus (influenza has roughly 1e8 atoms).
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | I had no knowledge of snake oil terms, so I was confused by
           | the "30C is just water". So after reading your comment, I had
           | to go look it up and came across this [0] with description of
           | the terms. For anyone else ignorant of snake oils ;-)
           | 
           | [0] https://homeosource.org/how-tos-for-homeopathy/what-does-
           | hom...
        
             | angiosperm wrote:
             | To be fair, the water used for dilution has orders of
             | magnitude more of stuff already dissolved in it, if only
             | from the person breathing on it.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Surely, you're not implying that someone making a snake
               | oil would be doing so in a non-sterile environment
               | without any kind good manufacturing practices being used.
               | These things seem so trust worthy. I mean, even the
               | government feels they need no regulations because they do
               | it so well themselves.
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | To be fair, most probably don't actually bother with the
               | original solute, and instead sell straight-up distilled
               | water. Or just tap water.
        
       | Beijinger wrote:
       | This seems to be a relative of
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conium_maculatum
       | 
       | (spotted water hemlock vs poison hemlock)
       | 
       | This exists in Europe. Socrates used this plant to kill himself.
       | 
       | Never ever touch this plant. Don't ask me how I know this. :-(
        
         | brookst wrote:
         | Sorry, but now I have to ask how you know this...
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | He's obviously Sacrotes, the AliExpress version, who ate
           | spotted water hemlock instead of poison hemlock.
        
           | Beijinger wrote:
           | Hemlock and Sun make a nasty pie:
           | 
           | https://www.leben-und-
           | erziehen.de/kind/gesundheit/riesenbaer...
        
         | littlestymaar wrote:
         | This is discussed by the article:
         | 
         |  _> There are toxic plants that may kill you but will be nice
         | about it. "Poison hemlock is much better," says "Wildman" Steve
         | Brill, a New York based foraging expert and tour guide with an
         | encyclopedic knowledge of the edible and not-so-edible plants
         | of the Northeast. "You just stop breathing and your heart
         | stops." Socrates, when choosing death over a life in exile as
         | an old man, chose poisoning by poison hemlock. It was a gentle
         | death._
         | 
         |  _> Poison hemlock is related to spotted water hemlock, but,
         | um, only taxonomically, not in the way its poisons affect
         | mammals. Here is Brill's explanation of what happens when you
         | eat spotted water hemlock:_
         | 
         |  _> Every single muscle starts firing and contracting, so you
         | have convulsions, you chew your tongue into ribbons, you vomit
         | but then you can't open your mouth because the jaw muscles are
         | contracting 10 or 20 times as hard as they normally do, and you
         | die a horrible death_
        
         | anonreeeeplor wrote:
         | Which one. Both?
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | Socrates used regular poison hemlock. He would have
           | recommended not using spotted water hemlock for anything but
           | on his political enemies, who had a point.
        
         | throwbadubadu wrote:
         | Though the effects of both poisons couldn't differ more..
         | gentle death one might choose in certain circumstances vs death
         | you wouldn't even wish your worst enemy.
         | 
         | Recommend reading the article, not only because of this detail
         | and that your "seems" would have become certainty before
         | posting, it has even more nice points ;)
        
         | sudobash1 wrote:
         | The article mentions that spotted water hemlock is not
         | particularly common, but unfortunately the same cannot be said
         | for poison hemlock. It is a omnipresent weed around here
         | (Pacific Northwest). And it remains poisonous for years after
         | it dies, which makes disposal a problem. This also is a huge
         | issue if it gets into a hay-field. I have heard that some
         | people have tried to burn it, with very poor results.
         | 
         | Also, in this terrible plant family is Cow-Parsnip.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracleum_maximum. If touched, it
         | causes your skin to be excessively sensitive to the sun. It is
         | basically reverse-sunscreen.
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | Let us pass silently over hogweed.
        
         | dilyevsky wrote:
         | There's also https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracleum_(plant)
         | from the same family (carrots). If you touch it and go in the
         | sun you get crazy sunburns. It is an invasive species common in
         | eastern europe (ukraine, russia) where it grows out of control
         | and apparently has been detected in 16 states here
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | Interesting that it doesn't use the normal advertisements of
       | danger (bright red colour, bad taste, etc.). Instead the thing
       | looks harmless, tastes nice, and kills mammals at a small dose. I
       | suppose it works to protect from anything that herds since
       | killing one is sufficient to keep the herd away.
        
         | anonreeeeplor wrote:
         | Are cows smart enough to do a post mortem on who ate what
         | random plant three hours ago?
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | Their ancestors were smart enough to stay out of that
           | particular thicket, afterward.
           | 
           | Typically they have dug up and eaten the tasty-smelling
           | tuber. The most daring cow chowed it while the others
           | goggled, and remembered the smell forever after.
        
           | fnordpiglet wrote:
           | Evolution has amazing power to change behaviors in
           | inexplicable ways. Sudden reliable death at small doses is a
           | fairly powerful evolutionary pressure.
        
         | woleium wrote:
         | The ring of convulsing and dead is a bit disconcerting...
        
           | at_a_remove wrote:
           | One would think so, but ...
           | 
           | I was on one of those investigative rabbitholes and stopped
           | in at various rodent traps. One of the antiques was this
           | contraption with eight holes, in a line, in which rats could
           | stick their heads and be swiftly killed via your basic
           | spring-loaded spinal injury.
           | 
           | Anyway, you could have seven dead or dying rats, heads in,
           | and another rat would clamber over the victims, both the
           | twitching and the finally-still, just to stick its head in
           | the only open hole. The presence of kin corpses and dying
           | nestmates was an insufficient deterrent.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Australia has entered the chat with the Gympie Gympie:
       | 
       | https://www.newsweek.com/world-most-dangerous-shrub-suicide-...
        
       | angiosperm wrote:
       | It is always described this way, but people routinely survive it
       | if they get to an ICU soon enough.
       | 
       | For my money hogweed is worse, but nobody is tricked by a
       | pleasant smell into eating it. Tobacco kills many orders of
       | magnitude more than either, year in and year out. Sugar cane,
       | even more.
       | 
       | (People enzymatically convert corn sugar to match what comes out
       | of sugar cane. Straight-up corn sugar is harmless, "high-
       | fructose" is deadly.)
        
         | nsxwolf wrote:
         | Tobacco and sugar cane don't belong in the same list. It's like
         | dismissing the Boeing door-flying-off incident by saying "Don't
         | pay it any mind, motorcycles are far more dangerous overall"
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | Tobacco and sugar vendors are quick to endorse this
           | sentiment.
        
             | postalrat wrote:
             | Attempts to frighten people with bullshit rarely work for
             | long then backfire.
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | And then they die, in droves, but neatly out of sight.
               | "Nothing to see here, just millions dying from lung and
               | throat cancer, and from complications from fatty-liver
               | disease." (Vs. barely a couple hundred lately via Boeing,
               | conveniently overseas. Between flying 737-Max and
               | tobacco, I would recommend the former.)
        
               | sneak wrote:
               | Tobacco kills 7x as many in the US as the "opiate crisis"
               | every day, week, month, and year. He's got an important
               | point.
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | And sugar way more than tobacco.
        
         | montecarl wrote:
         | > People enzymatically convert corn sugar to match what comes
         | out of sugar cane. Straight-up corn sugar is harmless, "high-
         | fructose" is deadly.
         | 
         | Corn sugar is the monosaccharide glucose (more specifically its
         | a specific stereoisomer of glucose called dextrose or
         | D-glucose).[1] Cane sugar is sucrose, which is a disaccharide
         | of composed of glucose and fructose.[2]
         | 
         | There is no way to enzymatically convert a monosaccharide to a
         | disaccharide, you would need to be joining the glucose together
         | with a fructose, which, as we are not fruit don't just have
         | naturally occurring in our body.
         | 
         | When you eat sucrose, the enzyme sucrase-isomaltase located in
         | the small intestine catalyzes its hydrolysis into fructose and
         | glucose.[3,4] High-fructose corn syrup is a mixture of glucose
         | and fructose which is exactly what you get when your body
         | enzymatically breaks down sucrose.[5]
         | 
         | So corn sugar is glucose. Sugar can is sucrose. And high-
         | fructose corn syrup is a mixture of "pre-digested" sucrose. I
         | think that high-fructose corn syrup is probably bad in that its
         | in everything and cheap, but I can't see how its any worse than
         | regular sugar. And corn sugar is not the same as regular sugar,
         | it lacks fructose entirely.
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_sugar
         | 
         | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugarcane
         | 
         | [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucrase
         | 
         | [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucrase-isomaltase
         | 
         | [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-fructose_corn_syrup
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | Yet, millions of tons of corn sugar is, in fact, made via
           | industrial enzymatic process into "high-fructose corn sugar",
           | mainly because it is sweeter when cold than straight glucose,
           | and doesn't absorb water from air as readily. Cane sugar in
           | beverages has typically already separated into glucose and
           | fructose, no sucrase needed.
           | 
           | Fructose is a problem because it is processed as a toxin, in
           | the liver. Fructose was invented by flowering plants in the
           | early Cretaceous because, erg for erg, it tasted sweeter to
           | insects. Our evolutionary ancestors never had need to evolve
           | means to process much of it. The liver makes it into fat,
           | wraps it in cholesterol, and ships it off to the fat cells to
           | store, emitting lots of uric acid as waste. Too much uric
           | acid causes lots of problems.
           | 
           | If production of cholesterol is inadequate, worse things
           | happen.
           | 
           | Fructose is a minor problem _if_ consumed along with enough
           | fiber, because enough fiber delays absorption long enough for
           | your intestinal bacteria to get a crack at it first. (They
           | can eat fructose all day long.) But modern industrial  "food"
           | processing is all about eliminating fiber, and delivering the
           | straight-up stuff. The only actual fruit without enough fiber
           | is, oddly, grapes.
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | Again, worth pointing out that none of this fructose stuff
             | is really operable, because there isn't a mainstream "low-
             | fructose" sugar that anyone uses as a sweetener+. As you
             | acknowledged across the thread: HFCS is (if not chemically
             | identical) bioavailably the same thing as cane sugar.
             | 
             | + _Other sugars get used for functional reasons other than
             | sweetening, of course._
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | You can buy straight glucose, sold as "corn sugar", from
               | brewery suppliers. In the US they would like to sell you
               | a 50-pound bag for $100, but a 10-pound bag for $20
               | should last you a long time. It _all_ comes, ultimately,
               | from Tate and Lyle. It may also be labeled  "dextrose";
               | same stuff. They will let you pay as much as you like.
               | (Some claim to offer "organic", but there is really no
               | way to tell and, by the evidence, they are probably just
               | re-bagging it with a new label, and lying. Enforcement is
               | nonexistent.)
               | 
               | There are other sugars, maltose, [not lactose] with
               | varying numbers of glucose molecules stitched end on end,
               | collectively amyloses. With enough, it becomes starch.
               | 
               | There is also left-handed enantiomeric glucose, zero
               | calories, expensive, and racemic glucose, 50% calories.
               | The latter is made from raw chemicals. Guessing they make
               | the former by feeding the latter to bugs and selling what
               | is left over, although there are crystallization tricks.
               | 
               | I bake with corn sugar, and it works fine. I have found
               | that hot chocolate made with it is unsatisfying without a
               | half-teaspoon of table sugar added. Or a marshmallow.
        
               | hollerith wrote:
               | >lactose, etc. Those are just varying numbers of glucose
               | molecules stitched end on end.
               | 
               | Not so: lactose is a glucose stitched to a galactose
               | molecule.
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | I am corrected. Chemistry offers a limitless supply of
               | complications.
        
             | hollerith wrote:
             | > Our evolutionary ancestors never had need to evolve means
             | to process much of it.
             | 
             | That's not true because about half of the carbs in fruits
             | and vegetables is fructose. (Cherries have the lowest ratio
             | I know about at about 30%; apples and pears have the
             | highest at around 70%; most fruits and vegetable are almost
             | exactly half fructose and half glucose.)
             | 
             | Also, if you eat a spaghetti meal or a lot of potatoes
             | (which rapidly become glucose and get absorbed) your body
             | will convert a decent amount of the glucose into fructose
             | according to researcher Robert Lustig MD.
             | 
             | (I don't disagree with your overall point that most
             | affluent people consume too much fructose. In the ancestral
             | environment however calories were scarce enough that people
             | should have and did eat almost all the fructose they could
             | find.)
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | Prehistorically, fructose without intermixed fiber was
               | found mainly in honeycombs, i.e. rarely. Beverages are
               | the way most people get the most concentrated blasts of
               | fructose nowadays. With enough fiber, intestinal bacteria
               | get first crack at it. (Keep your intestinal bacteria
               | well-fed; hungry bacteria will eat you instead.)
               | 
               | Your body has processes to produce fructose, which is
               | processed by the liver to fat for storage, when preparing
               | for lean times seems indicated.
               | 
               | It is hard to research, but it seems like mangoes have
               | the highest proportion of fructose.
        
         | ekimehtor wrote:
         | I agree that giant hogweed is worse, maybe not as deadly but
         | capable of blinding just from touching it's roots and rubbing
         | your eyes. I was unfortunately enough to encounter hogweed
         | while prospecting for gold, I was digging into the bank of a
         | stream with a hand shovel . I ended up burn like blisters
         | arthritis like pain for over two years. Nasty nasty stuff!
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | The health benefits of table sugar over HFCS are a myth. High-
         | fructose corn syrup is higher in fructose _relative to normal
         | corn syrup_ , not to sugar. The HFCS used in processed foods
         | has the same percentage of fructose as table sugar; your body
         | does not see a meaningful difference between the two. The whole
         | HFCS thing is Mercola science.
         | 
         | Sugar is certainly not good for you. The problem with HFCS is
         | that it makes it cheap easy for the food industry to create
         | hyperpalatable foods jacked with sugar. But choosing foods with
         | "cane sugar" does nothing to improve health outcomes.
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | "Table sugar" and HFCS are, chemically, the same thing.
           | 
           | HFCS has the commercial benefit of being substantially
           | cheaper than cane sugar, in part via massive subsidy by the
           | US federal government, and in part because maize is so
           | fantastically productive of starch cheap to convert to
           | glucose and thence via chemical-engineered wizardry to
           | fructose.
           | 
           | HFCS originated as a clever way to consume the massive influx
           | of surplus maize produced by the Nixon adminstration's
           | agricultural subsidies for mono-crop maize production
           | instituted under Earl Butz, still in place. The public health
           | catastrophe we still suffer is just an unfortunate side
           | effect of the disproportionately representated rural voting
           | bloc that keeps the subsidies in place.
        
             | aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA wrote:
             | Ah, Earl Butz. The man was quite the comedian.
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | Him and Ed Meese.
        
             | dilap wrote:
             | > "Table sugar" and HFCS are, chemically, the same thing.
             | 
             | in theory, but in practice there can be impurities from the
             | production process, e.g.
             | https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00216-012-5817-x
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | Looks like up to 0.1% a-dicarbonyl.
               | 
               | Dicarbonyls are blamed for "obliterative bronchiolitic
               | lung disease", which sounds unpleasant.
        
         | janalsncm wrote:
         | There's no first principles reason tobacco is a legal product.
         | If it was invented today, as a product which kills or disables
         | a large percentage of its users, it would be banned.
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | Tobacco is anyway in decline after it was demonstrated to
           | kill people not directly using it. There have been efforts at
           | limiting alcohol, some catastrophic. Practically nothing has
           | been done yet about concentrated sugar.
        
         | elsonrodriguez wrote:
         | On the subject of smell, there are some people that can
         | distinguish wild carrot from poison hemlock by smell alone.
         | 
         | In a controlled educational setting a sample of both was pass
         | around a crowd of about 25 people at different times, and the
         | instructor asked if anybody detected a strong smell in either
         | sample.
         | 
         | I found the smell of poison hemlock terrible, a kind of
         | chemical souring sensation in the back of the nose, as did one
         | or two others in the group.
         | 
         | The instructor highlighted that the ratio of people sensitive
         | was typically the same in every group, then moved on to another
         | topic.
         | 
         | This might be true for water hemlock as well, but I'm not going
         | out of my way to find out.
         | 
         | I still identify wild carrot visually, but always do a sniff
         | test as a final check.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | Funny - I was just picking a ton of these out of my yard last
       | summer. They smelled like carrots, which I found interesting. I
       | researched them at that time and realized they were indeed known
       | as a "wild carrot"
        
         | gregwebs wrote:
         | That is probably a different plant also known as Queen Anne's
         | Lace, which is an edible wild carrot that is invasive and
         | everywhere in the midwest and harmless. It is unfortunate that
         | the two look similar. Queen Anne's Lace thrives in dry
         | conditions whereas spotted water hemlock as the name implies
         | grows in damp conditions.
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | I saw a great deal of Queen Anne's Lace even in mid-northern
           | Finnland.
           | 
           | The most easily-spotted difference is that the flower bunch
           | of QAL is flat. On spotted water hemlock, it is smaller
           | bunches splayed out.
        
       | _visgean wrote:
       | > There are many reports of the spotted water hemlock's use as a
       | suicide tool among the Iroquois nation; the most commonly cited
       | occasion is upon the discovery of marital infidelity. There are
       | plenty of other ways to take your own life; the spotted water
       | hemlock is specifically chosen because it causes the most
       | horrible, painful death possible.
       | 
       | why would they go for the most painful death possible?
        
         | orenlindsey wrote:
         | People didn't always do certain things (like committing
         | suicide) the easy way, they often did them in the most dramatic
         | way possible. This was generally true up until around the
         | Industrial Revolution.
        
         | Jun8 wrote:
         | They could be forced into taking it. Or they may choose the
         | painful death to erase the shame of the infidelity, similar to
         | how seppuku was sometimes done.
        
         | CydeWeys wrote:
         | To make the person who wronged you feel extra guilty and
         | disgraced in the eyes of the community.
        
         | angiosperm wrote:
         | In the news quite recently a woman doused herself with gasoline
         | and lit it in protest over wholesale Gaza slaughter. She does
         | not seem to have slowed the process.
        
       | MichaelRo wrote:
       | I don't eat stuff that I don't totally, 100% know and trust. Wild
       | shit, never.
       | 
       | There's this fascination of people towards eating exotic stuff
       | (defined as "non domesticated plants"), like wild garlic (Allium
       | Ursinum), I see people selling leaves at the market. A slight
       | mistake and they're buying Lily Of The Valley which looks very
       | similar but will kill you.
       | 
       | Or wild mushroom people. I'm not touching wild mushrooms with a
       | barge pole, couldn't give a s*it what experts say and how great
       | they taste. I'd rather eat bread and water and stay alive than
       | risk kidney failure and agonizing death.
       | 
       | I guess people are curious on experiencing interesting tastes but
       | as they say "curiosity killed the cat".
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | In fairness, there's a method to eating exotic plants that
         | isn't just "ram it down the hatch". You smell, look, and feel
         | for anything that seems off-putting. You touch it to your
         | tongue and wait 30 minutes to see if anything happens. You make
         | sure you're within range of EMS with people around. You eat a
         | very small bite to begin with.
         | 
         | But yeah, unironically please don't eat exotic plants I don't
         | want anyone to die for a silly reason.
        
           | angiosperm wrote:
           | We have this method nowadays not so available to our recent
           | ancestors, "look it up". Do that one first.
        
             | jimbob45 wrote:
             | There's a theory[0] that the bloke from "Into the Wild"
             | died from seeds that weren't in his fieldbook because they
             | had never been known to be poisonous at the time. Again,
             | though, I agree - pack your own food into the campsite.
             | 
             | [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_McCandless#Swainsoni
             | ne_i...
        
               | angiosperm wrote:
               | If it's not in your fieldbook, don't eat it.
        
             | elsonrodriguez wrote:
             | This is the only way. It is a tautology, but a plant is
             | only safe to eat if you know it is safe to eat and can
             | identify it correctly.
        
         | angiosperm wrote:
         | The South American tapir eats toxic plants all day long
         | 
         | But only one leaf off of each, and then eats kaolin clay.
        
           | Jun8 wrote:
           | The tapir is wise as was Mithridates, as told by Housman:
           | There was a king reigned in the East:       There, when kings
           | will sit to feast,       They get their fill before they
           | think       With poisoned meat and poisoned drink.       He
           | gathered all the springs to birth       From the many-venomed
           | earth;       First a little, thence to more,       He sampled
           | all her killing store;       And easy, smiling, seasoned
           | sound,       Sate the king when healths went round.
           | They put arsenic in his meat       And stared aghast to watch
           | him eat;       They poured strychnine in his cup       And
           | shook to see him drink it up:       They shook, they stared
           | as white's their shirt:       Them it was their poison hurt.
           | I tell the tale that I heard told.       Mithridates, he died
           | old.
        
             | angiosperm wrote:
             | But don't neglect the kaolin.
        
       | julianeon wrote:
       | There are quite a few plants which can kill you but it's probably
       | better that they're not widely known. I knew a guy who worked as
       | an ER doc and he talked about how in Sri Lanka there was a widely
       | known and common plant which could kill you, and people overdosed
       | on it regularly (suicide attempts).
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | Somewhere in the Cooking Issues archive there's a Dave Arnold
       | rant about how dangerous foraging apiaceae (I remember him
       | referring to them as umbillifers, or maybe less accurately as
       | umbillaceae, which I found memorable because it describes the
       | shape of the plant vividly) is --- because there's delicious
       | stuff there but also some of the more widespread umbillifers can
       | straight up kill you.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Spotted water hemlock is the most toxic plant in North America_
       | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22631069 - March 2020 (59
       | comments)
        
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