[HN Gopher] Rogue Worlds Throw Planetary Ideas Out of Orbit
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Rogue Worlds Throw Planetary Ideas Out of Orbit
Author : rbanffy
Score : 38 points
Date : 2024-01-13 15:02 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.quantamagazine.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.quantamagazine.org)
| thriftwy wrote:
| Maybe the actual sentient life in universe lives deep within
| those rogue worlds. It is also trivial for them to hop worlds -
| either wait for a flyby or put nuclear reactor on a blob of ices
| and drive away. They use stars as beacons and can't imagine
| anyone willing to live directly in the bonfire.
|
| If they are using laser communication, our Sun will likely drown
| any signals in noise.
| Kalium wrote:
| It's a neat possibility for a science fiction author. I've seen
| the idea used a couple of times.
|
| One of the key questions for life is where all the external
| energy to overcome entropy comes from. Being close to a star
| without being fried by it is a good way to accomplish this, but
| there are fewer easy energy sources on a rogue planet.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| There's a couple of options; the most obvious one is
| radiothermal heating from radioactive elements in the core,
| or even just remnant heat from the core slowly working its
| way up. And if there are pairs of these, then their orbits
| might be keeping their cores moving and warm due to tides.
| klyrs wrote:
| "Deep within" gas giants, physics gets incredibly weird due to
| the pressures involved. Life arising on a moon seems more
| likely to me.
| thriftwy wrote:
| I was thinking more of tectonically active ice giants with
| large oceans under the ice shield. To explore space, you will
| have to drill your way out first.
| WJW wrote:
| > It is also trivial for them to hop worlds - either wait for a
| flyby
|
| How so? The gravity well of a gas/ice giant would be absolutely
| massive. Even if you could get away from the planet, waiting
| for a flyby in interstellar space could well take millions of
| years between encounters.
| throwaway4aday wrote:
| If there are that many Jupiter+ sized objects then how many rocky
| planet sized ones are there? Would they even be detectable via
| infrared or gravitational lensing?
| api wrote:
| I had a thought a while back about interstellar flight:
|
| If there are a lot of massive objects out there (rogue planets,
| maybe primordial black holes) then these could be used to aid
| acceleration and deceleration through gravity assist and the
| Oberth effect. (The latter describes how you get more
| acceleration thrusting near a massive body.)
|
| You could fly along with an ultra sensitive gravity telescope /
| sensor and hop between massive objects.
|
| You could also perhaps harvest propellant from some of these.
|
| Long duration interstellar flight would be easier if the space
| between solar systems was not as empty as we think.
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| I think gravity assists only really make sense when you're
| talking about orbits - a solitary object floating through the
| void won't help you accelerate, though it can help you make a
| cheaper "turn" in space.
| api wrote:
| Doesn't the Oberth effect still work?
| throw83485 wrote:
| Not many. Gas giants can form on their own, they have
| composition similar to interstellar material (mostly hydrogen
| and helium).
|
| Rocky planets can only form in proto disks around newly forming
| stars. Heavier materials (carbon and up) are concentrated this
| way.
| jpm_sd wrote:
| Haha, I love uncensored quotes from scientists.
|
| > "We know there's a whole bunch of crap between stars," Raymond
| said
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| I think I commented this the last time it was posted, but I'm
| vain enough to post it again:
|
| > _Rather than answering this question, the JWST observation adds
| to the mystery: The telescope's infrared eye found that dozens of
| the worlds appear to be in pairs orbiting each other -- a
| puzzling arrangement that, if confirmed, would defy
| expectations._
|
| > _"We're missing something," said Nienke van der Marel, a
| researcher who studies planet formation at Leiden Observatory in
| the Netherlands, "and we don't know what it is."_
|
| > _These improbable duos cannot be easily explained by any known
| formation theories of either stars or free-floating planets. But
| within a week of the JWST announcement, researchers published a
| daring new idea describing how giant planets might be ejected
| from their home system in pairs -- an event most researchers had
| thought all but impossible. Whether or not the proposal can fully
| account for the entire zoo of dim, starless worlds remains to be
| seen._
|
| Here's my scifi take on things: these pairworlds are engineered.
|
| The whole "the galaxy should be settled by now" question has an
| answer: the galaxy is settled, but the people living there don't
| care to live close to suns - they prefer to live in planetary
| binaries sailing through the interstellar void, using the
| gravitational energy of the orbit to keep the cores of the
| planets in flux, generating internal heat for energy.
|
| My understanding from the article is that these are mostly gas-
| giant, Jupiter-like pairs - so maybe these creatures live in
| those types of planets' atmospheres, and have developed the
| technology to pair up gas giant worlds and go traveling.
|
| Maybe that's how most sentient life does it! Maybe we're half a
| million years away from our local Gas Giant Natives packing up
| their shit (Jupiter & Saturn, Neptune & Uranus) and fucking off
| to join the greater galactic community, leaving us in the dust to
| be clobbered by asteroids and other orbital disasters.
| thegrim33 wrote:
| But why? It's much easier and cheaper to just leech off a star
| for energy. Your theory also doesn't explain why "most
| intelligent life" would choose that approach rather than only a
| subset, with the rest staying around stars like normal.
| m4rtink wrote:
| Single gas giant & moons would easier - see how it keeps Io and
| possibly other moons warm. :)
| WJW wrote:
| I personally don't think this is very likely (main question:
| how do they actually manage to get those planets paired and
| ejected in the first place??? The energy requirements are quite
| literally astronomical) but it is a very cool idea.
|
| Would make a great novel.
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