[HN Gopher] Japan ANA Boeing 737-800 flight turns back due to co...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Japan ANA Boeing 737-800 flight turns back due to cockpit window
       crack
        
       Author : 2-718-281-828
       Score  : 187 points
       Date   : 2024-01-13 14:25 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.channelnewsasia.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.channelnewsasia.com)
        
       | eterm wrote:
       | This is one of those stories that wouldn't be noticed if not for
       | the attention on anything Boeing related right now. Instead it's
       | near the top of the front-page.
       | 
       | This hyper selective attention is very bad. It leads to all kinds
       | of wrong inference about the background frequency of events,
       | because suddenly when under the microscope we notice all kinds of
       | things that would have previously gone unnoticed.
        
         | adastra22 wrote:
         | Well how often do cockpit windows of passenger aircraft crack?
        
           | eropple wrote:
           | From a 2022 report, trivially searched-for on Google:
           | 
           | > According to the Federal Aviation Administration, more than
           | three dozen instances of cracked windshields have been
           | reported by airlines over the past five years.
           | 
           | https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article260551697.html
        
             | jbverschoor wrote:
             | https://avherald.com/h?search_term=cracked+windshield&opt=1
             | &...
             | 
             | Most of them are Boeing it seems:                 14x
             | Airbus       35x Boeing       5x  Bombardier       3x
             | Embraer
        
               | JimBlackwood wrote:
               | Does Boeing also have more plans in service and/or more
               | flights?
        
               | discordance wrote:
               | For a fair comparison, this should be measured against
               | flight hours per manufacturer
        
               | krallja wrote:
               | Takeoff/landing cycles, actually. Cruising at high
               | altitude is much less rough on the airframe (including
               | windows) than the strains that happen when changing
               | altitude.
        
               | jbverschoor wrote:
               | A quick search gave me 12K vs 10K planes. I couldn't find
               | the actual hours or number of flights
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | And until last year, most of the planes in the sky were
               | also Boeing. And the Boeing planes in the sky, on
               | average, are older.
        
               | avereveard wrote:
               | Blatantly Overlooked Engineering Inadequacies, Now
               | Grounded
        
           | jjulius wrote:
           | A cursory Google suggests that it is not an uncommon
           | occurrence.
        
           | a12k wrote:
           | This article from 2014, predating all of Boeing's recent
           | failures, claims it is a regular occurrence and is also not
           | always reported because it's a relatively minor thing to
           | happen:
           | 
           | https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20140507001219-90103575-crack.
           | ..
        
           | brunohaid wrote:
           | ~ weekly, globally.
        
           | scrlk wrote:
           | The most infamous incident with a cockpit window is probably
           | British Airways Flight 5390. An incorrectly installed window
           | blew out, causing one of the pilots to be partially ejected.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390
        
           | sseagull wrote:
           | Here's a link to an Aviation Herald search for "windshield
           | crack". Looks like a lot of bird and hail, but also a fair
           | number of them just cracking.
           | 
           | https://avherald.com/h?search_term=windshield+crack&opt=0&do.
           | ..
           | 
           | There are lots of Boeing on there, but unsure what the ratio
           | of Boeing to Airbus there are in service. Certainly some
           | Airbus on there as well.
        
         | hcs wrote:
         | Since this involves a window I can't help but think of the
         | windshield pitting epidemic,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seatt
         | le_windshield_pitting_epi...
        
         | genocidicbunny wrote:
         | On the other hand, the hyper focus on Boeing might result in
         | some actual change instead of more of the same as before.
         | Perhaps a little of the stick to contrast with the carrot?
        
           | williamcotton wrote:
           | I wholeheartedly agree. They need to get an aerospace
           | engineer back at CEO and not some MBA optimizing for
           | quarterly reports.
           | 
           | People are absolutely dying because of an incoherent
           | understanding of the value chain. The decision to outsource
           | may please Wall Street for three months but it certainly
           | hurts the brand in the long term. Boeing is in the business
           | of R&D and production. That's their value add. Fuck the
           | investors, they're literally killing people!
        
             | gvedem wrote:
             | > Fuck the investors, they're literally killing people
             | 
             | epitaph of the new century. from water that makes your
             | teeth black to illegal drug trials in poor countries.
             | corporations are amoral by design and we have to assume
             | they will do literally anything to make a buck.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >from water that makes your teeth black
               | 
               | ???
        
               | chmod775 wrote:
               | Tried to google it and found something about tap water
               | with high iron content.
        
               | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
               | Fluoride is known to discolour teeth; also, inactive
               | dental caries will turn dark, and most dentists will jump
               | at the opportunity to drill that shit out.
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | It's a toxic relationship. "I fund you so I decide
               | whether you matter or not"
        
             | rpeden wrote:
             | The previous CEO was an aerospace engineer. As was the CEO
             | who moved the company's headquarters from Seattle to
             | Chicago. So I'm not sure an engineering background is any
             | guarantee they'll do better.
             | 
             | But perhaps the company's recent problems will give an
             | engineering-minded CEO a little more leverage to steer the
             | company back toward engineering excellence, even in the
             | face of pressure from the board and shareholders.
        
             | dontupvoteme wrote:
             | Perhaps the government should create a fund which
             | guarantees a hefty reward for whistleblowers on aviation
             | companies/airlines, enough that they don't need to fear for
             | their own livelihood and can effectively retire without
             | loss of income if they expose something significant.
             | 
             | Apparently AF261 had a whistleblower who had to sue in
             | court for damages. That's not correct, that's not how this
             | should be done.
        
           | shagie wrote:
           | https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/faa-increase-
           | oversight-...
           | 
           | > Jan. 12, 2024, 8:07 AM CST / Updated Jan. 12, 2024, 8:54 PM
           | CST
           | 
           | > The Federal Aviation Administration will increase its
           | oversight of Boeing production and manufacturing, the agency
           | said Friday, one day after announcing it had opened an
           | investigation.
           | 
           | > The FAA says it will audit Boeing's 737 Max 9 production
           | line and its suppliers "to evaluate Boeing's compliance with
           | its approved quality procedures."
           | 
           | > The results of the initial audit will determine whether
           | additional audits are needed, the agency said.
           | 
           | > "It is time to re-examine the delegation of authority and
           | assess any associated safety risks," FAA Administrator Mike
           | Whitaker said in a statement.
           | 
           | > ...
           | 
           | The linked statement: https://www.faa.gov/newsroom/faa-
           | increasing-oversight-boeing...
        
           | rainsford wrote:
           | Maybe, but if the perception is that they're going to get the
           | stick no matter what they do, I'm not sure that creates much
           | pressure or incentive to do the actually do the right thing.
           | 
           | Either way, I don't think it's a net positive for us to
           | choose to be less correctly informed about an issue or
           | encourage the same in others, even if it's in pursuit of an
           | otherwise worthwhile goal.
        
         | Solvency wrote:
         | It's a weird point to make. Does Boeing need your defense? In
         | real life this is what happens. Bad students. Repeat offenders.
         | Criminals. Neverdowellers. Their actions get spot lit and
         | they're put under a microscope
         | 
         | I don't see how making a stink over Boeing's constant little
         | problems isn't a tiny cosmic balancing act against their
         | decades of negligence.
        
           | tekla wrote:
           | Hysteria is hysteria.
        
           | eterm wrote:
           | I'm not defending Boeing. I've said elsewhere I wouldn't fly
           | on a max.
           | 
           | I'm attacking the way in which the media (and audience, the
           | media is mostly just chasing ratings) gets obsessed about a
           | topic to the exclusion of other stories, only to dramatically
           | flip-flop around and completely dump a topic once it's bored
           | of it.
        
             | whynotmaybe wrote:
             | Are you new here? (Jokingly...)
             | 
             | I don't know what percentage of HN is about AI & LLM in the
             | past few months but it's like nothing else important is
             | happening in the ICT world.
        
               | EGG_CREAM wrote:
               | It's not just HN, you all seem to be upset with basic
               | human nature here. Something happens, and then you notice
               | related events more often because they feel more salient.
               | You might as well be upset that people recognize
               | patterns, it's just part of how people are wired.
        
               | tiahura wrote:
               | Some of us choose HN to receive our preciously minuscule
               | free time on because we expect it to be of a higher
               | signal to noise ratio than average.
        
         | jsiepkes wrote:
         | > This hyper selective attention is very bad.
         | 
         | > because suddenly when under the microscope we notice all
         | kinds of things that would have previously gone unnoticed.
         | 
         | They knew that was a risk when they started cutting corners.
         | Now they are paying the price. Can't say I feel for them. It's
         | a nice deterrent.
        
           | oneplane wrote:
           | In the context of just Boeing, that makes sense.
           | 
           | In the broader 'news' context, it's bad, because there are a
           | crapton of things that really aren't as significant as they
           | are made out to be to the layman. It's not a firehose we
           | should be drinking from, instead, the most significant things
           | are supposed to be selected by specialists so we have enough
           | space in our heads to focus on things we choose to instead of
           | just whatever happens to be getting firehosed at us.
           | 
           | (you can probably elaborate the 'selected by specialists'
           | with complete departments or even organisations that
           | specialise in various things - the world is much too big and
           | made of too many pieces for just some person or small team to
           | do all the 'is this thing important' work for everything, and
           | definitely not in a single outlet)
        
             | kjkjadksj wrote:
             | We don't in fact drink from the firehose. There are
             | actually specialists who select what stories we are exposed
             | to. The simple fact is that their incentives of politics
             | and profits don't align with yours of general knowledge and
             | a peaceful learned population, and what we see today is the
             | end result of these incentives.
        
               | sdenton4 wrote:
               | Specialists who carefully wield their HN up votes to make
               | sure you see stories like this one...
        
             | tiahura wrote:
             | Yep.
             | 
             | Another example is the stranger kidnapping scare of the
             | '80s.
             | 
             | There's an unhealthy paradox at work: The rarer a highly
             | emotional event occurs, the more media attention attention
             | it gets. The more media attention something gets, the more
             | people think it's actually common.
             | 
             | Another example is police killing unarmed black men.
             | 
             | Trying explaining to someone that something is in the news
             | because it's rare is futile.
        
         | cbhl wrote:
         | AS1218 is probably not the cause of extra attention to
         | airplanes _in Japan_.
         | 
         | They had arguably much worse events on Jan 2 (landing JAL516
         | A350 crashed into a earthquake relief Coast Guard DC-8 on
         | landing; killed 5, and both aircraft caught fire).
        
           | adastra22 wrote:
           | Sure but that had nothing to do with the intrinsic safety
           | engineering of either plane.
        
           | eterm wrote:
           | It's the cause of extra attention of "Hacker news" to this
           | story, which otherwise wouldn't be paid much attention
           | outside of regional news.
           | 
           | Instead right now it's the #1 story on HN.
        
         | mmaunder wrote:
         | Agreed this is a nothingburger but the side effect of having a
         | spotlight on Boeing is helpful. There are fundamental changes
         | needed at Boeing to move the finance guys off the helm and move
         | engineering back into leadership roles.
        
         | sph wrote:
         | This is how journalism and social media have been working in
         | the Internet Age: keep bombarding people with the topic du jour
         | because it sells (or it is easy HN karma), and then move onto
         | the new thing.
         | 
         | For many, like OP, Hacker News is the place to post random news
         | that have nothing to do with computers or hacking. (I blame
         | HN's vague and simplistic guidelines that allow "anything that
         | our users might find interesting")
        
           | JKCalhoun wrote:
           | > Hacker News is the place to post random news that have
           | nothing to do with computers or hacking.
           | 
           | Thankfully. If HN was just posts about Docker or Web stacks I
           | would have left a long time ago.
        
         | nswest23 wrote:
         | Covid?
        
         | EGG_CREAM wrote:
         | You're fighting human nature if you think people aren't going
         | to be hyper attentive to things like this after the (latest)
         | Max 9 incident. Also, it is not in any way "very bad." In fact,
         | it's very good. Plane makers should believe one faulty decision
         | could completely ruin them, that's how they should be attacking
         | any engineering problems related to putting people in the air.
         | Clearly Boeing's leadership is ok with putting profits before
         | safety, they need to be shown there is no profit without
         | extremely tight safety margins.
        
           | ReptileMan wrote:
           | >Plane makers should believe one faulty decision could
           | completely ruin them
           | 
           | In that case nothing will ever be done, improved or
           | innovated. The optimal is close, but greater than zero on
           | faulty decisions.
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | Inaction/no decision is a decision too, although that idea
             | is often a surprisingly hard sell in the media.
        
         | PedroBatista wrote:
         | Funny, because the broad non-attention is what lead us to the
         | situation we are in now.
        
         | Cacti wrote:
         | Every single Boeing story here is filled with comments from
         | Seattle tech people thinking they know something special about
         | Seattle aerospace, but they don't, and they're completely
         | unaware of this.
         | 
         | Mostly it's people repeating their parents stories and they've
         | never bothered to fact check them, or it's people who have
         | never like Boeing doing military aircraft and simply shit on
         | them for that.
         | 
         | It has zero impact though outside of extending the ignorance of
         | HN readers and promoting fear, uncertainty, and doubt. No one
         | doing aerospace cares what HN thinks or even knows about HN for
         | that matter.
        
         | mihaaly wrote:
         | They wanted to trade on the hyper selective attention and
         | binding new and old very tightly together, but this thing has
         | double edge, everyone knows it, they must eat what they cooked!
         | They wanted the good ignoring the bad in their deliberate half
         | blindness.
        
         | dontupvoteme wrote:
         | Even if it normally wouldn't be news, given the shitshow that
         | the MAX is and how they're now trying to get MAX-10 certified,
         | this might be a case of the media being a functionally broken
         | clock.
         | 
         | The FAA should have hell to pay if they certify it and this
         | will put pressure on them, as at the end of the day they answer
         | to the American public, even if boeing only answers to
         | shareholders.
        
         | bdcravens wrote:
         | True, but we see the same cycle frequently. Apple keyboards,
         | Teslas and FSD, Apple antennas, Samsung phones catching fire,
         | etc, all created an environment where tangential stories
         | received elevated attention.
        
         | hindsightbias wrote:
         | I measure societies by what they're hysterical about. It's the
         | best measurement of character there is imo.
        
         | callalex wrote:
         | Kinda like how every train derailment was evidence of a failed
         | society a few months ago and now nobody cares again.
        
       | feverzsj wrote:
       | Recent 737 accidents remind me of the famous Aloha Airlines
       | Flight 243.
        
         | Mainan_Tagonist wrote:
         | As long as it doesn't remind us all of the ill fated JL123
         | flight...
        
           | ginko wrote:
           | Reading the wikipedia page on that one is horrific.
        
             | booleandilemma wrote:
             | For the curious:
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Air_Lines_Flight_123
        
             | Mainan_Tagonist wrote:
             | Indeed, i used to work for ANA, and my colleagues used to
             | bring this up fromt time to time, with assorted creepy
             | anecdotes. This disaster somehow struck a nerve in the
             | Japanese psyche.
             | 
             | There were even novels written on this topic with a
             | boarding pass for flight 123 included as a bookmark.
        
       | supernova87a wrote:
       | "... _Flight 1182 was en route to Toyama airport but headed back
       | to the Sapporo-New Chitose airport after the crack was found on
       | the outermost of four layers of windows surrounding the cockpit,
       | the spokesperson said_... "
       | 
       | Hopefully people can tell routine maintenance issues from
       | newsworthy improper design and implementation / manufacturing
       | problems.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | > Hopefully people can tell routine maintenance issues from
         | newsworthy improper design and implementation / manufacturing
         | problems.
         | 
         | 100 upvotes and counting. There's your answer.
        
         | tekla wrote:
         | On HN? Never. This entire thread is proof of it.
        
           | alpaca128 wrote:
           | No reason to pretend like HN is some special noteworthy kind
           | of echo chamber. You won't find any large online community
           | where the majority reads more than the headline.
        
       | drumhead wrote:
       | Right now any bad news related to a 737 is fatal to the brand,
       | regardless of how common or uncommon the incident may be.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | Or the opposite. Now people will become desensitized and assume
         | it's just more clickbait.
        
           | dontupvoteme wrote:
           | I think you underestimate how many people hold a dim view of
           | (nu)boeing
        
             | irrelative wrote:
             | Or perhaps you overestimate how many people hold any view
             | of Boeing at all.
        
               | dontupvoteme wrote:
               | They're fairly well known in europe after the MAX
               | debacle, I don't know how it is stateside though.
        
       | lolinder wrote:
       | The plane in question was JA56AN [0], which according to
       | PlaneSpotters.net was delivered in June 2009 [1]. Forbes [2]
       | indicates that the service life of a fight deck window is ten
       | years (it's not clear if that applies to the windshield as well
       | as passenger windows)--if that's accurate, it's likely that this
       | is completely unrelated to Boeing's significant manufacturing
       | problems lately. Unfortunately for Boeing it doesn't matter,
       | anything involving a 737 will get news coverage right now.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/nh1182
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.planespotters.net/airframe/boeing-737-800-ja56an...
       | 
       | [2]
       | https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarcia/2018/05/19/airplan...
        
         | ta1243 wrote:
         | Boeing made a business decision to brand a new model as a
         | "737". They wanted to trade of the reputation of the 737.
         | Instead they tarnished it.
        
           | djha-skin wrote:
           | Further, they allowed the old planes to tarnish the
           | reputation of the new ones. If they had made of completely
           | different brand name, then a 10-year-old 737 wouldn't get
           | mixed up with a new plane.
        
             | seanmcdirmid wrote:
             | But its more like the opposite: the new MAX planes are
             | tarnishing the reputation of the older ones. This one
             | incident being a more standard problem that hasn't gotten
             | much attention in the past.
        
           | hef19898 wrote:
           | Branding didn't really matter. The MAX had to be a 737 for
           | certification and crew training.
           | 
           | Boeing cut corners during development, MCAS. And it seems
           | that they are cutting corners as well in manufacturing,
           | supplier management and quality insurance.
           | 
           | There is nothing to funny about any of that.
        
             | the_mitsuhiko wrote:
             | > The MAX had to be a 737 for certification and crew
             | training.
             | 
             | I don't believe that this is correct. They could have
             | called it anything, it's the type rating that matters.
        
               | onetimeuse92304 wrote:
               | That's absolutely not true. 737 MAX IS 737, lengthened.
               | It is not a completely new plane, it is not a plane that
               | just accidentally or by design looks like 737. It IS 737,
               | with slightly different behaviour because of the fact it
               | is lengthened and it has engines moved.
               | 
               | And the story of the MCAS is that Boeing needed this
               | system to make 737 MAX to behave in entire envelope. But
               | introducing new major system would require re-certifying
               | pilots so the hid the fact, downplayed importance of it.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | The point is they could have called it "Blueberry"
               | instead of "737 MAX" and have it still share the same
               | type rating as the 737.
               | 
               | Which is perfectly reasonable as changing the branding
               | alone isn't particularly meaningful from a safety,
               | airworthiness, or training perspective.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | > 737 MAX IS 737, lengthened.
               | 
               | That wasn't under dispute. The question you responded to
               | is whether they _had_ to use the 737 _brand_.
               | 
               | And personally, I think that once you lengthen it and
               | move the engine, it would not be weird at all to give it
               | a different number. Even just 738 would give it better
               | distinction than "MAX".
        
               | zirgs wrote:
               | > But introducing new major system would require re-
               | certifying pilots so the hid the fact, downplayed
               | importance of it.
               | 
               | Is it typical to hide critical systems from pilots in the
               | aviation industry? Or is only Boeing doing that?
        
               | nearlyepic wrote:
               | You're right on. For example, the 757 and 767 share a
               | common type rating.
        
               | seanmcdirmid wrote:
               | Boeing was trying to piggy back on existing 737
               | certification. If they certified it as a new plane, the
               | certification would be more extensive and the pilot
               | training would be different (which could have been a
               | better route given the size of the engines they installed
               | on it).
        
             | beowulfey wrote:
             | they kept the 737 branding to indicate backwards
             | compatibility with existing jetways so airlines wouldn't
             | need to upgrade other equipment.
        
           | mihaaly wrote:
           | True. I augmented the 737-800 with MAX in my head incorrectly
           | reading the title first, corrected later on reading the
           | article, will need to work on erasing this story from the MAX
           | list in my head.
           | 
           | They wanted to trade on the wake of the 737 so badly they
           | ruined it big for the generic audience (those paying for it
           | by buying tickets).
           | 
           | I almost said they wish they did not use 737 and make a new
           | aircraft instead but of course they give no f, not at all,
           | top managers care about the coming year or two only, the top
           | salary and bonuses, thats it, the rest could sink or die for
           | them. They will go on elsewhere ruining something completely
           | else for the rest of us. Prosper and thrive regardless of the
           | wreck caused and others will let it without comparable
           | consequences.
        
           | steve1977 wrote:
           | I think the problem was rather that they did _not_ actually
           | develop a new model, but instead pimped their existing one to
           | compete with Airbus neo variants.
        
         | FartyMcFarter wrote:
         | I don't understand why the service life is relevant here,
         | unless ANA wasn't maintaining their planes properly which I
         | doubt is the case given the reputation of this airline.
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | I included it because in theory it shows that the windshield
           | was either overdue for replacement or it wasn't an original
           | windshield, so it's not evidence of failure on Boeing's part
           | in the initial manufacture of the plane.
           | 
           | Admittedly, I don't know much about how maintenance works for
           | these planes, so there could be something I'm missing.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | I'd wait with any judgment until the inevitable
             | investigation has run its course because there are just as
             | many ways in which it could be a Boeing issue as there are
             | ways in which it can't. Anything specific about this
             | failure is right now mostly speculation. Also, and maybe
             | surprisingly to some, cracked cockpit windows are not a big
             | deal as long as they stay in place until the landing
             | because they are multi-layered and ridiculously strong to
             | begin with.
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _or it wasn 't an original windshield_
             | 
             | Put another way, it's a recently-fabricated windshield.
             | Which could be read as it being less resilient than the
             | original.
             | 
             | That's not how I'm reading it, absent further information.
             | L
        
         | Morte42 wrote:
         | I would imagine the windshield is a recently manufactured
         | replacement rather than the original article. There was a more
         | recent 787 that suffered from a cracked windshield last
         | December in London too.
         | 
         | The thing that really surprises me is that the regulatory
         | bodies arent catching this stuff either, safety standards are
         | not mutable.
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | It also happened in April 2022 on a Bombardier CRJ-700 [0]
           | and in October 2020 on an Airbus A319 [1]. After the 2022
           | incident the local newspaper reported that it had happened
           | more than three dozen times in the previous five years. If
           | Boeing is disproportionately represented in those stats
           | that's one thing, but so far I don't see any reason to
           | believe they are.
           | 
           | [0]
           | https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article260551697.html
           | 
           | [1] https://thepointsguy.com/news/smashed-windshield-how-
           | pilots-...
        
         | diggan wrote:
         | > if that's accurate, it's likely that this is completely
         | unrelated to Boeing's significant manufacturing problems
         | lately.
         | 
         | I'm not sure how "recent" lately is referring to here, but it
         | seems Boeing have had engineering/manufacturing issues for
         | quite some time.
         | 
         | About the 787 Dreamliner:
         | 
         | > Early 787 operations encountered several problems caused
         | mainly by its lithium-ion batteries, which culminated in fires
         | onboard some aircraft. In January 2013, the U.S. FAA grounded
         | all 787s until it approved the revised battery design in April
         | 2013. Significant quality control issues from 2019 onwards
         | caused a production slowdown and, from January 2021 until
         | August 2022, an almost total cessation of deliveries.
         | 
         | Maybe it's just finally catching up with them?
        
           | hx8 wrote:
           | > Boeing moved its corporate headquarters [there] in 2001
           | when they opted to leave Seattle for Chicago.
           | 
           | It's been going downhill since management physical separated
           | itself from engineering/production.
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | Cockpit windows are also manufactured by a third party
         | specialist glass company (i.e. PPG Aerospace, not Boeing), cost
         | about the same as a new car precisely because they get subject
         | to the sort of stress that is inclined to break a layer, and
         | subject to regular inspection. Plus in this case it appears the
         | other layers of the window did their job and avoided anything
         | more than an annoyingly expensive but routine return to base.
        
           | eastbound wrote:
           | So in summary, Boeings break down like MacDonnells[1], but
           | it's not Boeing's fault, it's the fault of the entire
           | ecosystem, but not Boeing, just everyone involved with
           | Boeing, we get it. Entire denial of ownership of problems
           | should be patented as a business model. So that no other
           | manufacturer can copy it for 20 years.
           | 
           | [1] McDonnell planes were known for falling apart, doors
           | flying in the air, lengthened planes which didn't adapt the
           | airframe for the new length, or just pieces falling off.
           | Remember the Concorde getting pierced in the fuel tanks by a
           | metal frame dropped on the airstrip by the previous plane and
           | crashing into a hotel? Yup, it was a piece that fell off a
           | McDonnell.
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | Their point is that cracked windshields are neither
             | uncommon nor (typically) dangerous. They happen regularly
             | across all manufacturers and have redundancy in place to
             | make sure they don't hurt anyone.
             | 
             | Boeing has a lot of problems, more so than other
             | manufacturers, but this isn't a good example.
        
             | notahacker wrote:
             | no, in summary, airframers all contract out their
             | windshields to the same few specialists, whose replacements
             | are routinely retrofitted without OEM involvement, and
             | cracks developing in a windshield designed to be resilient
             | to a crack developing in one of the layers is not an
             | unexpected phenomenon.
             | 
             | (And fwiw the bit that fell off the DC-10 that the
             | unlawfully overloaded Concorde ran over was an engine part
             | on a GE engine incorrectly retrofitted [twice] by Bedek and
             | Continental respectively shortly before it detached, so
             | it'd be difficult to imagine anything that had less to do
             | with the half of the airframe OEM that didn't design the
             | the non-engine parts that didn't fall off over quarter of a
             | century earlier. Might as well get angry at Bill Gates for
             | air traffic control failures)
        
         | smdyc1 wrote:
         | Window cracking isn't uncommon. Cockpit windows are typically
         | made of layers of acrylic glass sandwiched together, with
         | heating elements in the middle. They are exposed to incredible
         | forces, the forward airflow on the outside, positive pressure
         | from the inside, cold on the outside and warmer on the inside,
         | then there's the internal temp when the anti icing elements are
         | on. And despite all of this, they're so strong that a crack can
         | be discovered on one side and the aircraft can still be safely
         | landed.
        
         | 35mm wrote:
         | It sometimes feels dishonest whenever an event is published in
         | the news without having the typical frequency of occurrence.
        
       | pcurve wrote:
       | This happened a few times to 737.
       | 
       | With picture
       | https://twitter.com/HawaiiNewsNow/status/1658175996925734912
       | 
       | Another one. https://www.nhregister.com/news/article/Avelo-
       | flight-from-Tw...
       | 
       | It's not specific to 737. 787 also had a bunch of cracked pilot
       | window issues not related to external impact.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eemw9RNkU_k
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | It's also not specific to Boeing. All airplanes get cracked
         | windows sometimes.
        
       | cqqxo4zV46cp wrote:
       | Here we go. The inevitable mainstream media freak-outs over the
       | usual background noise of airplane issues. This is how I know my
       | YouTube recommendations are going to be extra awful for a while.
        
         | bmitc wrote:
         | Big deal. It's Boeing's fault. Maybe they and the airlines
         | shouldn't have defrauded the public and regulators. If they
         | hadn't, this would indeed be in the background noise.
        
       | rootusrootus wrote:
       | We've now reached the stage where every non-story is interesting
       | because it has "Boeing" in the headline. While you think this
       | hurts Boeing's reputation, I'm not at all sure that's how it
       | plays out. It desensitizes people and reminds them that the news
       | is just about clicks and outrage. Then they'll not be paying much
       | attention if there is _real_ newsworthy revelations.
       | 
       | The fact that it's getting so many upvotes on HN is kind of sad,
       | but not unexpected.
        
         | 1letterunixname wrote:
         | Are you a Boeing stock owner? The buzz is deserved because 20
         | documented, serious deficiencies in the 737 MAX have escaped
         | widespread press. Furthermore, few people are aware of the 737
         | NG Ducommun scandal. The rot at Boeing stretches back to the
         | 90's.
        
       | 1letterunixname wrote:
       | FYI: 737 NGs were also manufactured shoddily says whistleblowers
       | from 20 years ago. Bear straps and other falsely approved,
       | deficient structural components were beaten into place with
       | hammers on the assembly line ("preloaded"). There have been 3 737
       | NG accidents where people died because the fuselage broke up when
       | 737 Classic fuselages would've survived similar scenarios.
        
       | inejge wrote:
       | This made the news only because of Boeing's current troubles with
       | the MAX9. They richly deserve the scrutiny for _that_ blunder,
       | but cracked windshields on aircraft are not all that uncommon. A
       | step above anecdotal, but if you go to the Aviation Herald and
       | search for  "cracked windshield"[1], the first page of results
       | covers about a year and has sixty-something entries. About half
       | are Boeing aircraft, but again, this is not rigorous, because
       | Avherald doesn't cover everything (but please, support them if
       | you can; they are a great resource.)
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://avherald.com/h?search_term=cracked+windshield&opt=0&...
        
       | roamerz wrote:
       | When I see that the plane has been in service for 30 years and
       | has a cracked windshield I think less about the age of the glass
       | and more about the rigidity of the airframe. Seems that as a
       | plane ages out it would tend to stress those types of parts more.
        
       | JumpinJack_Cash wrote:
       | How many buildings collapse in the world daily? How many catch
       | fire and burn to the ground?
       | 
       | How many trucks and cars self combust or lose a wheel?
       | 
       | How many trains derail out of the tracks?
       | 
       | Aviation people and regulators are so paranoid, they hold a
       | chokehold on global economic growth, maybe only nuclear
       | regulators causes more GDP and quality of life losses.
       | 
       | Instead of grounding them or demolishing them send these plane to
       | Africa, they will take them
        
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