[HN Gopher] Temperature-Sensing Stirbar with RFID
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       Temperature-Sensing Stirbar with RFID
        
       Author : cl3misch
       Score  : 74 points
       Date   : 2024-01-13 10:52 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | cl3misch wrote:
       | See also the more detailed Youtube video "Temperature-sensing
       | RFID tag in magnetic stir bar"
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nh1SIfipQs4
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | I'm surprised there isn't a single-chip solution to this...
       | 
       | Almost every nontrivial chip has a temperature sensor inside
       | (used for temperature compensation of factory calibrated stuff).
       | I expect RFID chips are no different.
       | 
       | Can't you just get an off the shelf NFC memory chip or something,
       | then figure out what combination of register reads are necessary
       | to read it's internal temperature sensor?
        
         | bboygravity wrote:
         | Ever looked up the accuracy of those built-in sensors?
         | 
         | Rough estimate based on experience +/- 2 C at best.
         | 
         | I'm not a chemist or microbiologist but I imagine they'd need
         | better than that?
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | When calibrated they're usually far better than that. Just
           | they normally aren't factory calibrated because temperature
           | sensing isn't the primary purpose of the chip and calibrating
           | temperature sensors is very expensive at scale (have fun
           | heating up every wafer to a very precise 100C and cooling it
           | down to -40C just to record temperature sensor output).
           | 
           | Having said that, single point calibration is cheap to do
           | (just calibrate at room temp) and pretty effective.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | wouldn't it be easy at scale if you have RFID?
        
           | 0xEF wrote:
           | Heck, you need more accuracy than that for a proper cup of
           | tea or coffee.
           | 
           | That level of accuracy would also be useful in candy making,
           | a secret hobby of mine. The cheap thermometers tend to have
           | that margin of error and are pretty terrible at showing just
           | how uneven the heat in a pan can be but I am not sure ic that
           | has more to do with the sensors sensitivity or the refreshing
           | on the cheap LCD display they tend to put on them.
        
             | Cheer2171 wrote:
             | > Heck, you need more accuracy than that for a proper cup
             | of tea or coffee.
             | 
             | No, 2 degrees C is about the right accuracy you need for a
             | "proper" cup of tea or coffee. You'll lose that much heat
             | in the transfer from kettle to cup. Inaccuracy of 5 degrees
             | C in brewing will be indistinguishable for most people.
             | 
             | Precision also has a placebo effect. Coffee or tea will
             | taste better to you if you put a lot of work into it.
        
               | regularfry wrote:
               | > Coffee or tea will taste better to you if you put a lot
               | of work into it.
               | 
               | This is commonly known as the IKEA effect.
        
               | ithinkso wrote:
               | > Coffee or tea will taste better to you if you put a lot
               | of work into it.
               | 
               | This is very true but, tangentially, this is the opposite
               | when you make drink/food for others. I found that you get
               | the best effect when you spend a lot of effort to cook
               | and perfect the dish but when asked, you have to pretend
               | you basically winged it and it wasn't a hassle
        
           | ta988 wrote:
           | In chemistry it is usually fine, in microbiology it can have
           | a serious impact on yoeld. But those sensors can often be
           | calibrated just with a simple coefficient.
        
         | HankB99 wrote:
         | I wonder if the internal heating of the chip would affect the
         | reading.
         | 
         | My related experience was positioning a temperature sensor
         | above a Raspberry Pi Zero and the couple watts produced by the
         | Pi was enough to affect the measurement.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | NFC chips don't have any need for temperature data, so a
         | temperature sensor and the necessary blocks to convert it to
         | digital wouldn't be a priority for a cost reduced NFC design.
         | 
         | NFC gear is low bandwidth and low power. They don't need to
         | monitor temperature like you would in a high performance CPU or
         | memory chip.
        
         | azubinski wrote:
         | There are single chip NFC interfaced temperature meters of
         | course.
         | 
         | For example, https://ams.com/wireless-sensor-tags-interfaces
        
       | endiangroup wrote:
       | AD: Yes, what a wonderful application of tech. I very much enjoy
       | seeing these hardware <> software open source projects.
       | Congratulations on developing a finished project.
        
       | HPsquared wrote:
       | Such an elegant solution. This method could also be used to embed
       | similar things.
       | 
       | How about humidity sensors embedded inside buildings? Like, the
       | builder could throw a couple of them into a wall when they build
       | it, and trivial to scan and measure the temperature or internal
       | humidity level inside the wall (or other equipment, maybe
       | industrial equipment) during routine inspections.
        
         | waldothedog wrote:
         | This is being done in the "high performance" home building
         | space. I don't think it's standard practice, but it gets talked
         | about on the Fine Home Building podcast a decent amount
        
       | stavros wrote:
       | This seems like a great solution, I wonder why they didn't move
       | on to selling this. Maybe because that's not as much fun as
       | making it.
        
         | themoonisachees wrote:
         | Because the people using the old solution aren't the ones
         | buying it. A chem lab is going to be stocked with the equipment
         | everyone used in chem school, and the people who went to chem
         | school are going to require that equipment. Yes, it'd trivial
         | to change processes to use this new solution, but every chem
         | lab in existence already has a thermometer and a hot plate with
         | stirring, so the expense makes very little sens on its own.
        
       | apprenticemason wrote:
       | I created a similar product almost 10 years ago, I had a
       | provisional patent filed and showed it off to some very nice and
       | smart people at Thermo Fisher. I wanted to license the patent to
       | people that actually know how to build laboratory equipment (I
       | don't hold a higher degree in anything). I should've continued
       | trying to license but they convinced me that was the wrong move.
       | I formed a company and got $50k in grant money from the state of
       | Wisconsin along with incubator space and advisors. I did all the
       | initial software and hardware development, the first one I built
       | took components from a battery powered toothbrush to inductively
       | charge so I didn't need a charging port exposed to solutions. I
       | loved working on this project, I had the idea after having
       | frustrating experiences working with 30 year old lab equipment
       | that took up more bench space in the lab than my backpack did. At
       | the end of the day that's all it was. I had no idea wtf I was
       | doing and the company eventually folded as real life became too
       | much to juggle with my project. I figured I could use the same
       | form factor to build tons of different sensors based on the many
       | different ion selective electrodes already on the market.
       | Eventually I needed to try and manufacture these sensors myself
       | in a form factor that would fit inside flasks in the lab.
       | 
       | Letting this project fall by the wayside is probably the single
       | greatest regret of my life. I often think back about how
       | different things could've turned out if only I had made the
       | correct decisions and executed properly and actually found
       | someone to license my patent... so it goes.
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RrBhliK1ryY&pp=ygUbUGhpbmRpbmc...
        
         | kohbo wrote:
         | That's rough. Thanks for sharing your experience. On the other
         | side, I hope your life came together in other ways.
        
         | zafka wrote:
         | Hi, my email is in my profile if you care to connect. I started
         | an apprenticeship as an electrician at the age of 27. I
         | received my Journeyman's card at 31 - Funny thing is that here
         | in FL, there is next to no benefit in having a journeyman card
         | unless you are using it as a stepping stone to a Master's
         | license. There was a severe building slump when I got my card,
         | so i figured it was a good time to go back to school full time.
         | ( I had been going part time while working as an electrician.)
         | Now quite a few years later .... Hell, not gonna bore everyone.
         | Anyhow, give me a yell if you feel like it.
        
       | bkraz wrote:
       | I'm always happy to see one of my own projects on Hacker News.
       | Let me know if you have any questions.
        
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