[HN Gopher] A Philosophical Introduction to Language Models
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A Philosophical Introduction to Language Models
        
       Author : sebg
       Score  : 39 points
       Date   : 2024-01-11 19:11 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arxiv.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arxiv.org)
        
       | gumballindie wrote:
       | The main philosophical question in my mind is when did we allow
       | people redefine reality and when did the post truth society
       | become the norm. There should be no debate over sentient
       | software, yet here we are. This is the result of taking people
       | seriously when we shouldn't.
        
         | boredemployee wrote:
         | Sorry if I'm straying from the topic, and I understand that we
         | are technological beings and want to develop more and more.
         | 
         | But I keep thinking about how much we've lost control in all
         | this. The fact that we need to spend rivers of money on energy
         | and GPUs for LLMs, to automate our super boring daily tasks
         | (which didn't even need to exist in the first place) says a lot
         | about our dysfunctionality. I would trade all this
         | paraphernalia we created for the freedom to have my small farm,
         | grow my own food, and be happy with my family and friends, too
         | bad that this is a very, very distant dream.
        
           | johngossman wrote:
           | First, you can do this (if you have the appropriate skills).
           | I know people who grew up off the grid, cabins built by the
           | family, well water, outhouses, no electricity. There are
           | whole Amish communities and communes if you want to still be
           | around people. However, a lot of this nostalgia for a pre-
           | technological time ignores the realities of a world without
           | antibiotics, painkillers, modern dentistry, indoor plumbing,
           | hot showers. It ignores infant mortality and women regularly
           | dying in childbirth. In the modern world you can still choose
           | to live off the grid while taking advantage of most of these
           | things, but not if everyone does.
        
           | gumballindie wrote:
           | > for the freedom to have my small farm, grow my own food,
           | and be happy with my family and friends, too bad that this is
           | a very, very distant dream
           | 
           | Every now and then I bump into people on HN that have seen
           | the light.
           | 
           | Well let me tell you it's all doable. The tiny bubble of
           | people that live in a non existant alternative reality is
           | just that, a tiny bubble.
           | 
           | I managed to escape all this nonesense, first mentally, then
           | financially, and buy a little house where I can grow my own
           | food - for hobby, I have plant pots in my house growing
           | tomatoes and spring onions, doesn't work but I am learning -
           | and be happy with family and friends.
           | 
           | Naturally I have a very nice tech room with all the cool
           | stuff. I am not rich, but I am free. Fun thing is you don't
           | need to completely erase the paraphernalia. The two things
           | are not mutually exclusive. All you need to do is have a
           | clear mental separation of the two (tech bubble and reality)
           | and compartmentalize the sane from the insane - an easy thing
           | to achieve when you surround yourself with down to earth
           | people that don't run around scared of an LLM and don't
           | regurgitate what a marketing campaign programmed them to do.
           | Those people are the matrix drones that don't want to be
           | saved, and in their mind it's all or nothing - hermit or tech
           | slave. Most normal people are watching in awe how the tech
           | industry turns itself into the subject of ridicule.
           | 
           | To be fair if you live in the US it's probably easier to
           | achieve what you want. For the money I paid for a little box
           | in the UK i'd have been able to buy a mansion there.
        
         | jonmc12 wrote:
         | The Enlightenment produced free speech and reasoning. Nietzsche
         | said, "god is dead," but a lot of people said it before and
         | after - because reasoning could not fill in the gap of a shared
         | reality. Harari's Sapiens gives a good history; Hoffman's claim
         | that "natural selection does not favor veridical perception"
         | says you're pretty confused about what is actually going on wrt
         | "truth"; Seth's "Being You" might help to understand what
         | conscious beings are actually trying to do in relation "truth"
         | and survival.
        
           | gumballindie wrote:
           | "So long as man remains free he strives for nothing so
           | incessantly and so painfully as to find someone to worship."
           | said Dostoevsky. In this case, it would appear that some
           | people desperatly want to worship software, and are
           | assaulting society with their new religion. Let's stop at
           | Nietzsche. Everything else is a waste of electrons.
        
         | doctoboggan wrote:
         | > There should be no debate over sentient software
         | 
         | I honestly don't know if you are implying its obvious software
         | _can't_ be sentient, or its obvious software _can_ be sentient.
         | The fact that I can't tell which you mean proves that there is
         | and should continue to be a debate over sentient machines.
        
       | visarga wrote:
       | This is the "Anti Stochastic Parrot" paper. I am happy to finally
       | read a philosophical paper on LLMs.
       | 
       | I just have a small quip.
       | 
       | > While LLMs show promise in various forms of task
       | generalization, their participation in the ratcheting process of
       | cultural learning thus appears contingent on further advancements
       | in these areas, which might lie beyond the reach of current
       | architectures.
       | 
       | I don't think cultural transmission with LLMs is that incipient.
       | 
       | Evolution through Large Models - https://arxiv.org/abs/2206.08896
       | 
       | We have seen papers where LLMs are used as "search heads" or
       | "mutation operators" in evolutionary methods. They can rely on
       | their language proficiency to explore the most promising leads,
       | spanning a vast combinatorial space.
       | 
       | And another example of "cultural transmission": GPT-4 has its
       | paws all over Mistral and LLaMA finetunes. Plenty of cultural
       | transmission between big and small LLMs. Not to mention Phi, a
       | model trained purely on synthetic GPT-4 data. Synthetic data has
       | been estimated to be 5x more efficient than human data, you can
       | make a model 1/5 size with similar performance.
        
         | ShamelessC wrote:
         | > Synthetic data has been estimated to be 5x more efficient
         | than human data, you can make a model 1/5 size with similar
         | performance.
         | 
         | Interesting. Can you cite anything to back up that claim?
        
           | visarga wrote:
           | Yes.
           | 
           | > We follow the "Textbooks Are All You Need" approach,
           | focusing this time on common sense reasoning in natural
           | language, and create a new 1.3 billion parameter model named
           | phi-1.5, with performance on natural language tasks
           | comparable to models 5x larger, and surpassing most non-
           | frontier LLMs on more complex reasoning tasks such as grade-
           | school mathematics and basic coding.
           | 
           | https://arxiv.org/pdf/2309.05463.pdf
        
             | ShamelessC wrote:
             | Thanks!
        
           | ignoramous wrote:
           | See also Self-Play Fine-Tuning (SPIN)
           | https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.01335 that (per authors) tunes as
           | well as Direct Preference Optimization (DPO).
        
       | lsy wrote:
       | I was interested to see a paper from a philosophical perspective
       | but it seems this one fails to grapple with some of the more
       | foundational critiques, primarily around reference where it
       | claims that externalism militates for a view where reference is
       | purely situated. I read the cited paper (Mandelkern & Linzen) and
       | the arguments seem very weak to me that an intelligent agent
       | "refers" in the absence of any grounding whatsoever beyond
       | relative semantics between text. What it seems to argue is that
       | because we sometimes are able to refer without absolute grounding
       | (due to lack of direct experience of the referent), then
       | reference overall does not require the referrer to have any
       | world-grounding whatsoever. To me that's a leap. I would like to
       | see more working against phenomenology here, especially Brian
       | Cantwell Smith's so-far-unanswered critique of machine learning
       | as intelligence.
       | 
       | One of their other arguments, which is under the umbrella of the
       | "re-description fallacy" hinges on the observation that
       | describing (e.g.) a piano as "hammers hitting strings" doesn't
       | preclude it from more complex behavior like harmony, and so a
       | simple description of LLMs as autocomplete etc doesn't preclude
       | more advanced understanding. While it's true that any complex
       | process can be inappropriately dismissed by simplifying its
       | description, I think this too-neatly sidesteps more complex
       | critiques which advance from simple descriptions of LLM behavior
       | _as contrasted_ with complex behavior from sentient intelligence
       | that cannot be implemented by those simple mechanisms.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-01-11 23:00 UTC)