[HN Gopher] Wi-Fi 7 took off while everyone was looking at AI
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Wi-Fi 7 took off while everyone was looking at AI
Author : mfiguiere
Score : 65 points
Date : 2024-01-11 19:04 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| Giorgi wrote:
| Ugh. I hope there will be Wi-Fi modules available for current
| laptop upgrade..
| bigbillheck wrote:
| Has that ever happened?
| londons_explore wrote:
| most non-apple laptops have a slot you can put a wifi card...
| megous wrote:
| Some lock you to pre-selected card models via arbitrary
| BIOS whitelists. (Will not even boot until you remove the
| card again.) Beware.
| dewey wrote:
| Apple laptops used to have an extension slot like that too:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirPort#AirPort_802.11b_card
| booi wrote:
| used to be you could swap out mini pci-e wifi modules. Intel
| makes good ones as well as a number of other manufacturers.
| They sometimes have connectable antenna that snake around the
| case.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Sure, Wi-Fi modules are about as commonly upgradeable as
| storage in laptops.
| saidinesh5 wrote:
| My (current) 5-6 year old Lenovo ideapad came with some
| garbage wifi card that used to get disconnected every 2-3
| hours. I swapped it out with an Intel card for around $30
| iirc and still happy with it.
| vel0city wrote:
| The last several laptops I've used have had swappable WiFi
| modules.
| robotnikman wrote:
| Yeah, lots of laptops have small wifi cards in them using a
| standard connector that are easily swappable (uses same
| connector as M.2 SSD's).
| zamadatix wrote:
| You can grab an Intel BE200 module (EDIT: which may be platform
| dependent, see below) or similar for about 30 bucks. For latest
| generation client side Wi-Fi cards Intel has traditionally had
| the better quality options on the driver side, not to give an
| illusion the cards and driver are perfect though. The
| limitation is you can't have a fully integrated system, like a
| MacBook. If the storage is upgradeable there is a high chance
| the Wi-Fi is.
| megous wrote:
| Is it a real wifi? Or is it the same old ax200 story with AP
| only in 2.4GHz mode?
|
| https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000.
| ..
|
| I prefer real WiFi.
| zamadatix wrote:
| I believe it's another client only card. For the AP side
| I'd recommend a Qualcomm 4x4 but it's unlikely to fit in
| laptops.
| megous wrote:
| Realtek RTL8922A and RTL8952A based cards will support AP
| mode, I'm sure. The driver (rtw89) got upstreamed a while
| ago and support for the new chip got added this Linux
| kernel release cycle. Hopefully the new generation
| modules will be available soon, too...
|
| I use the previous generation RTL8852A in my homegrown
| wifi router, and it works nicely as AP with the same
| driver and hostapd. The modules are small, and fit to
| laptops. (the ones I buy are actually some stock for
| laptops, that gets re-sold as spare parts I think)
|
| Cheaper than the Qualcomm wifi chips, too.
| bethekind wrote:
| Is it WiFi 7 certified? Or at least can I trust that it will
| be? I don't have experience with Intel wifi cards
| zamadatix wrote:
| The Wi-Fi 7 certified program only started a few days ago
| so nothing is through certification yet. That said Intels
| adapters up til this point have always been and . They
| already have driver support in Linux as well.
| vardump wrote:
| Weirdly and notably BE200 is not compatible at all with AMD
| platforms. The system might not even POST, so the issue is
| not about driver support.
| ksjskskskkk wrote:
| it's always driver support.
|
| just because everyone convinced you too use uefi as your
| true base OS doesn't mean it's not a driver issue. no
| matter how much you try to cover your own eyes.
|
| same with cpu and microcode.
| cesarb wrote:
| > > is not compatible at all with AMD platforms
|
| > it's always driver support.
|
| Not necessarily, if it's an Intel module it might be a
| CNVi module instead of normal PCIe module, meaning it can
| only work on Intel platforms (because half of the WiFi
| hardware is actually within the CPU/chipset; see
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNVi for more information).
| ksjskskskkk wrote:
| nah. it's available in m2 pcie and usb.
|
| plain old crappy software (driver) which you are not
| supposed to have access (despite all the filling being
| likely based on gpl)
| zamadatix wrote:
| That is quite the note, thanks for the heads up!
| dijit wrote:
| it's pretty rare I see wifi cards in thin-and-light laptops
| these days unfortunately.
|
| Laptops, largely, have become SoC's; at least for the most
| popular lines of business laptops (and I include Macbooks in
| that).
|
| Things like the Thinkpad X1 Carbon and Surface's (incl. surface
| book) etc;
| MrFoof wrote:
| I'd give it a few months.
|
| Both laptops _(sans Apple)_ and desktop PCs _(even USFFs)_ tend
| to use the NGFF M2.2230 form factor cards, typically with two
| antenna connectors.
|
| Yes, even your super fancy high-end desktop PC motherboard
| ultimately has an NGFF M2.2230 WiFi and BlueTooth combo card
| plugged in somewhere. It might be ultimately buried under a
| large VRM or other heatsink, but it's there nonetheless.
| Granted, replacing these sometimes necessitates entirely
| removing the motherboard from the case.
|
| Note for desktop PCs that you'll likely hook up an actual
| antennas to the RP-SMA connectors on the rear IO panel.
| Especially so if you're looking to take advantage of 6GHz
| spectrum. These antennas are a far less popular include with
| motherboards _(even high end ones)_ than years ago, but they
| 're generally only about $15-20 to purchase if you need better
| signal and range.
| kmfrk wrote:
| Are there any wi-fi dongles - or even PCI extensions - for PCs
| that are worth getting? Everywhere I look, it's usually down to
| hoping the one that comes with your motherboard is any good, and
| those aren't easy to upgrade every now and then.
| Latty wrote:
| This is very much the opposite of my experience, M.2 Wifi
| modules are very standard, cheap and solid. All my motherboards
| have one installed for the wifi and it's trivial to swap it
| out. I have just replaced it when it stopped working or I
| wanted some Wifi/Bluetooth spec it didn't support.
|
| The Intel AX210 is the most recent one I've used, but I assume
| they'll release a WiFi 7 version.
|
| M.2 is just PCI-E at the end of the day, so should be entirely
| viable to adapt one if something didn't have an M.2 A-key slot.
| megous wrote:
| M.2 is a lot of things. You can get USB and SDIO wifi cards
| in this format, too. Something to be careful about when
| buying...
| r1ch wrote:
| Intel PCI-e cards are some of the best and quite reasonably
| priced (~$35 for 6E), unfortunately their Wi-Fi 7 card is only
| compatible with Intel motherboards so far.
| vel0city wrote:
| I upgraded my previous laptop from an older intel ac wifi chip
| to a ax210 chip (6E). It really helped reduce latency and
| reliability especially on the 5G band. A good upgrade, it cost
| like $20 at the time.
|
| You can often find these mini m2 board to full size pci-e
| adapter cards or find these adapters pre-mounted on a board for
| sale.
| zamadatix wrote:
| A lot of the motherboard ones do turn out to be upgradeable,
| basically just laptop m.2 cards in a custom built portion of
| the board. That said, if you want a low-touch option a PCIe
| form factor adaptor is generally the best bet. You can get them
| for ~10 dollars on Amazon. If the back of your case is a bad
| position you can get combo RP-SMA cable extenders/antenna
| mounts for about $20 (that'd be like the little antenna pair on
| a wire most motherboard options come with). For the actual Wi-
| Fi card you can use a standard m.2 2232 laptop card at that
| point.
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| Qualcomm is as usual absolutely no where to be found. There's
| some $300-$400 AP-class m.2 cards from Compex & clones, but
| stock is dodgy even for these.
| https://www.524wifi.com/index.php/network-modules-adapters/w...
|
| MediaTek has been doing wifi 7 PCIe chips for a bit, but it
| seems like they're only really available on AMD motherboards so
| far. :(
|
| Reports from Intel side are that maybe they've started doing
| something fishy or some-such with their m.2 cards? Folks on
| non-Intel can't seem to use them.
|
| The lag here is alas, in my view _all too typical_. I 'd really
| love for USB & m.2 cards to be out much faster, to speed
| adoption, but it feels like the industry always slow walks this
| shit out.
| willio58 wrote:
| It's insane to me that someone got paid to write this article.
|
| - No mention of the benefits of Wi-Fi 7
|
| - No explanation of why AI headlines overshadowed Wi-Fi 7.. one
| is taking steps for changing what "work" looks like for Humanity
| while the other is..?
|
| - Bunch of links in the small article pointing to articles which
| are either promoted or have affiliate links
|
| I guess that last bullet explains it.
| Laaas wrote:
| It does talk about "Multi-Link Operation".
| pavel_lishin wrote:
| Unless it's changed in the last 5 minutes, the second paragraph
| seems to have an explanation:
|
| > _One of the biggest benefits of Wi-Fi 7 is that it allows for
| one device to connect to your router on multiple bands -- a
| feature called Multi-Link Operation -- which gives your laptop
| options when it comes to where to funnel its packets. That
| means that when your 5GHz band is at capacity, it'll just send
| the data down the 6GHz pipe, and vice versa. The result should
| be lower latency when you're on a busy network, which is
| critical when you're not able to wire up with ethernet._
| dewey wrote:
| Read the comment before reading the article...but it wasn't
| that bad. It's not a technical deep dive but more a short
| commentary post as a heads-up that it's available now even if
| not everyone is talking about.
|
| It also lists the biggest benefit for gamers (It's posted in
| the "gaming" section of Verge) in the second paragraph.
|
| You are exaggerating a bit.
| MR4D wrote:
| I disagree. This reads like a hastily-written article.
|
| Take these quotes from just one paragraph:
|
| "now is a fine time to start looking at Wi-Fi 7 routers."
|
| "There weren't a lot announced at the show.... "
|
| "You will probably want to be cautious about pulling the
| trigger, though."
|
| "The choices are still a little slim and mostly still
| expensive."
|
| This basically contradicts the title as well as the first
| line of the paragraph. How is that supposed to be useful for
| me?
|
| If instead, the article were something along the lines of
| "Wi-Fi 7 just came out, but don't buy yet", then that might
| be different. The author is trying to put a happy tone on a
| negative article. Whether that's the editors or the write, I
| don't know, but the output is a waste of time for people who
| read the headline thinking wi-fi 7 has taken off.
| gumballindie wrote:
| > - No explanation of why AI headlines overshadowed Wi-Fi 7..
| one is taking steps for changing what "work" looks like for
| Humanity while the other is..?
|
| Author wanted to fit in the term AI in there. Drives traffic.
| Has electrolytes - it's got what the NPC crave.
| RockRobotRock wrote:
| To be fair it's CES coverage.
| Ecstatify wrote:
| The Verge is a "corporate messaging" website.
|
| Interview with X CEO (Comments disabled)
|
| Their transportation editor Andrew J. Hawkins:
|
| ```
|
| _Waymo_ 's driverless cars are finally ready for the highway
|
| _VW_ 's software division and Bosch are testing robot parking
| and EV charging
|
| _Hyundai_ says hydrogen will play a 'prominent role' in going
| carbon neutral
|
| _Kia_ 's 'Platform Beyond Vehicles' is a family of modular
| electric minivans for businesses
|
| _Lamborghini_ will measure your heart rate as you burn rubber
| around the track
|
| Meet the new _Tesla_ Autopilot, same as the old Tesla
| Autopilot.
|
| _Tesla_ is recalling another 1.6 million vehicles in China.
|
| _Tesla_ 's Autopilot fix 'doesn't go far enough.
|
| ```
|
| I wonder which companies buy advertising on The Verge? It's
| crazy their anti-tesla bias.
| itslennysfault wrote:
| Wifi7 is cool, but effectively no devices support it yet. So,
| having it launched is a good first step, but there is no reason
| to go drop a ton of cash on a new router until you actually have
| things that can connect to it.
|
| For me it'll be at least a year before wifi 7 matters (probably
| longer because I'm lazy, cheap, and perfectly happy with wifi 6
| currently).
| dijit wrote:
| I usually wait until their's Ubiquity prosumer equipment
| available before even _thinking_ about a wifi upgrade.
|
| As such, I upgraded to wifi6 less than 18months ago, I don't
| think there's a meaningful reason to assume it will be soon for
| me to upgrade again.
| MrFoof wrote:
| Ubiquiti's U7-Pro has not only already launched, but mine was
| delivered a few hours ago. There's already reviews up
| _(including YouTube)_ as well.
|
| If you want MU-MIMO _(so 4x4 or more)_ , I'd expect the
| U7-Enterprise later this year.
| kcb wrote:
| Ubiquiti just released the U7-Pro. There's some
| disappointment though as it only supports 2x2 on the 5 ghz
| band.
| Arrath wrote:
| My typical phone upgrade schedule doesn't have me buying a new
| one until... eh, probably 2027 or so. By then I imagine I'll
| have a wifi7 router at home.
| brcmthrowaway wrote:
| WiFi is basically solved for 90% of people.
| jakderrida wrote:
| Yeah, seriously... How excited they expect us to get? Freaking
| AI made its debut and has accelerated nonstop since and y'all
| want us talking about new WiFi versions? I didn't know there
| was versions!
| adrr wrote:
| I have 2GB fiber and can only get 250MB on WIFI. Faster speeds
| helps out with app updates, syncing/backing up photos etc.
| Especially noticeable on my PS5 when there are game/system
| updates.
| fragmede wrote:
| You should getting better than that. What's your AP and
| clients?
| eddieroger wrote:
| We don't need cars. Everyone has a horse already.
|
| Electric light? No thank you - I have all these candles
| already.
|
| Progress doesn't stop because we think a problem is solved.
| cesarb wrote:
| > We don't need cars. Everyone has a horse already.
|
| This is not "cars versus horses", this is "fast cars versus
| slightly less fast cars".
| dgrin91 wrote:
| I'd dial it back a notch to reality. This is a small
| iterative step, not a revolution. Or to put it in your terms
| -
|
| Most people don't need sports cars if they already have
| regular cars
|
| Most people don't need smart lights if they have regular
| lights.
|
| Its progress, that doesn't mean we all need to buy it right
| now.
| hnburnsy wrote:
| Go check out the eye watering prices, example, $1599 USD...
|
| https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-Deco-BE95-AI-Roaming-3-Pack/d...
| Casteil wrote:
| Ubiquiti U7 Pro is only around $200 USD.
| zamadatix wrote:
| That's a pack of 3 high end mesh APs though, about $550 per.
| Each AP has 2 10G and 2 2.5G ports as well as 2 separate 4x4 6
| GHz radios so you can backhaul and transmit at the same time.
| Little of that price has to do with Wi-Fi 7.
|
| If you look at the price of 1x normal type AP instead of 3x
| BMWs the price really isn't that high. The story is the same on
| the client side where most any m.2 adapter should be less than
| $40 to upgrade to.
| zamadatix wrote:
| Anyone who lives in a dense area and held out on Wi-Fi 6E should
| definitely look into Wi-Fi 7 this year. The 6 GHz spectrum is a
| fantastic addition to Wi-Fi performance (not just throughput) and
| Wi-Fi 7 adds a few other tricks too.
| Tommstein wrote:
| My Wi-Fi has already been working just fine for a long, long
| time, new developments there are irrelevant to approximately
| everybody. Recent developments in AI, not so much.
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