[HN Gopher] Rabbit R1, Designed by Teenage Engineering
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Rabbit R1, Designed by Teenage Engineering
Author : cheerioty
Score : 98 points
Date : 2024-01-09 21:39 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.rabbit.tech)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.rabbit.tech)
| infotainment wrote:
| As usual with Teenage Engineering, I love the hardware design,
| but this aspect of the software is a letdown:
|
| _> rabbit OS operates apps on our secured cloud, so you don't
| have to. Log into the apps you'd like rabbit to use on your
| system through the rabbit hole to relay control. You only need to
| do this once per app._
|
| So things don't run on the device, but on the cloud. Unfortunate.
| wmf wrote:
| The device is $200 and appears to be smaller than a phone so
| yeah, it does not run AI locally. I assume Siri doesn't run
| locally on Apple Watch or AirPods either.
| tuckerman wrote:
| Not that it refutes your general point, but the latest Apple
| watch runs (at least some) Siri requests locally on the
| device.
| slashink wrote:
| Yeah it sets timers, that's about it. Not saying this
| product is good but the intention of what they are trying
| to enable here is a world apart from what Apple is running
| on the watch.
| armadsen wrote:
| My understanding is that in recent versions of iOS (and
| iPadOS) Siri runs a decent percentage of requests locally
| as well.
| mqus wrote:
| "operates apps so you don't have to" -> "to use, use a
| different PC, open the browser app and log into spotify"
|
| so... you also still have to have another PC and operate apps
| on it.
| whstl wrote:
| Seems to be only for login/setting up OAuth.
|
| Honestly that's the best solution for a V1, in terms of
| security, privacy, speed of development, etc.
|
| The target audience is early adopters, that definitely isn't
| people who _want_ to use Spotify /Uber/etc but _don 't_ have
| another device.
| thallavajhula wrote:
| Teenage Engineering's hardware design is so cool. I'm a fan of
| their aesthetics. Their color choices are great too.
| i80and wrote:
| They're almost an interactive art project that somehow got
| enough of an audience to sell their artwork en masse.
|
| I'm very glad they exist, but I'm always a bit flummoxed by
| what they make and manage to sell.
| munificent wrote:
| I don't know about their other gear, but they sold a _lot_ of
| OP-1s.
| yungporko wrote:
| if TE are selling it for $200, it must only be worth $20.
| ancientworldnow wrote:
| TE did the hardware design, it's not a TE product.
|
| It's like those old hard drives "designed by Porsche" etc.
| scblock wrote:
| How can you so badly fail at even saying what the hell this is on
| your shitty glossy web site? What is this? The page is just a
| list of hardware 'features' with large but unclear pictures.
|
| "push to talk button" ok, so?
|
| "far-field mike" ok, so?
|
| "360 degree rotational eye" so what?
|
| "analog scroll wheel" that does what?
|
| "usb-c plus sim card slot" which gives me what?
|
| There's a video but I shouldn't have to watch a video.
| xcv123 wrote:
| Seems like AI generated garbage
| astroalex wrote:
| I totally agree. The video does actually show the product, and
| it looks interesting, but the other parts of the website are a
| big turn off.
| nusl wrote:
| This is a bit harsh. I feel that you can figure out what the
| device is before even scrolling. It's a companion device that
| you can interact with to get assistance with various things,
| and the features you mention are how it gets instructions and
| information.
| annexrichmond wrote:
| I wasn't able to figure out what this device is or what it's
| for from their home page. I did get a better idea by reading
| the HN comments though.
| clarebear123 wrote:
| Yea I didn't want to watch the video and had no idea what it
| was, my best guess was it was a quirky non-smart phone, never
| occurred to me it might be a "companion device" whatever that
| is exactly.
| scblock wrote:
| What is "assistance with various things?" That's incredibly
| vague and unhelpful. What is "a companion device?" Again,
| vague and unhelpful. You haven't explained anything, and the
| web site fails to explain anything, and I'm being too harsh?
|
| There is zero information on the web site except an overly
| long video badly aping Apple's product announcement style.
| Including as-seen-on-TV "doing things is so hard" crap.
|
| Hell, the FAQ is entirely about purchasing, not about the
| "product." It's therefore also meaningless. Rather than harsh
| I'm being generous. This web site is useless.
| dingnuts wrote:
| well, it tells me enough: the only input method is the mic, so
| you cannot silently enter any input into this device. I don't
| need everyone around me to hear my Kagi searches or text
| messages dictated to my device. So, it's not for me.
|
| Since it's all cloud-based and has a far-field mic, I would
| also ask people around me not to use this device, if they had
| one, and turn it off if they are around me.
|
| As far as I can tell, this product is just a bugging device.
| drcongo wrote:
| I thought this was going to be a Teenage Engineering sex toy and
| I'm slightly disappointed that it isn't.
| crubier wrote:
| I have no idea whatsoever about what this device is doing but I'm
| pretty sure it should have been just a mobile app
| riscy wrote:
| Yeah the "OS" appears to be their backend that boils down to
| your login credentials + something like Selenium WebDriver +
| ChatGPT. The R1 device is just a thin client.
| patja wrote:
| Kind of a hilarious take if you watch the keynote where
| significant time and a moving backdrop are devoted to
| highlighting the miasma of navigating across 100 apps on a
| smartphone. Decrying "just install another app" is a big part
| of the raison d'etre for the whole product!
| yungporko wrote:
| no it really should have been an app, this thing is stupid.
|
| "phones have too many apps so buy this toy device and also
| keep your phone because you're still going to need it to do
| most things"
| thih9 wrote:
| The device offers some nice privacy friendly hardware UI, like
| a push to talk button or a swivel camera.
|
| Also, being an alternative to the smartphone seems sort of a
| point of this device.
| sergiomattei wrote:
| This landing page is an utter failure. I can't believe this got
| past anyone.
|
| I've read the whole thing and I still have no idea what it does
| or what problem it solves. I'm not watching a Keynote to find out
| either.
|
| Who made this?
| progbits wrote:
| Teenage Engineering is always like this. The hardware looks
| really cool (aesthetically I mean; no value judgment on quality
| or such) but they seem to have looked at Apple presentations
| and though those are not pretentious enough.
| hiatus wrote:
| > but they seem to have looked at Apple presentations and
| though those are not pretentious enough.
|
| The design is by Teenage Engineering but is not sold by them.
| LegitShady wrote:
| Its made for TE fanboys who will buy anything TE releases. A TE
| product for only $200? They'll order 5.
|
| Problem to solve? Why would that matter? It's a fashion
| lifestyle product.
| qingcharles wrote:
| The keynote takes forever to tell you what the thing does. It
| is a cool toy, and the price is low, but I don't know if it
| will go anywhere.
| tapoxi wrote:
| It's a neat idea but I'm not sure what the audience is. "It's
| simpler", but you still need to manage a bunch of integrations
| from a computer? It can't seem to make phone calls?
|
| I just want something that I can give my 93 year old grandfather
| so he can order a ride and get reminders about his prescriptions.
| Rabbit seems like a device that misses an audience that actually
| needs a simpler smartphone.
| Krasnol wrote:
| My elderly parents were my idea too, and the fact that I can
| manage the integration from my computer is actually a plus
| here. It's not like you have to do it all the time.
|
| It has to be able to make phone calls and text on
| WhatsApp/Signal too, though.
| tomtheelder wrote:
| I think the intended audience is really anyone and everyone.
| It's a very grand vision.
|
| I definitely see the appeal. I do not like owning and using a
| smartphone. A more functional device with a pared back
| interface is exactly what I would want, and I think they're
| _is_ a decent slice of people out there who agree. You see that
| in the dumb phone and minimalist phone market that's popped up.
|
| That said my experiences with LLMs are that they are woefully
| underbaked for this kind of thing, and it's a really tough sell
| to me on a privacy basis as well.
|
| But for older folks I'm not sure I agree that the market is
| missed. I suspect the idea would be that you would manage the
| web portion for your grandfather and then he can just chat to
| the device. Unclear if it can make calls though, that does seem
| like a miss!
| ggandhi wrote:
| I found this site few years back which was a real simple device
| for this task.
|
| http://ownfone.com/
|
| seems rabbit surely is giving a miss to this audience who needs
| simpler device
| tptacek wrote:
| This seems like one of the least expensive things Teenage
| Engineering has done.
| schaefer wrote:
| Same street price as the play.date, similar form factor? Both
| by Teenage Engineering.
|
| [1]: https://play.date
| much-to-learn wrote:
| Instantly thought it looked like a red play date with a
| different gimmick. (No crank but scroll wheel and 360 cam)
| nycticorax wrote:
| Can someone who has watched the keynote tell me what this device
| is for?
| asadalt wrote:
| talk to llm bot
| rhinoceraptor wrote:
| It's a client device to an LLM that can use software on your
| behalf, presumably running on Android and Chrome/Linux VMs that
| they host. You log in to their web portal, authenticate various
| apps as you would on your own phone, and then the LLM can do
| everything you can do. You can also train it to do specific
| tasks.
|
| When you press the button on the side, you speak as you would
| type to ChatGPT, but now the LLM can do arbitrary things as
| you.
| josephwegner wrote:
| How in the world are they going to make money on this? Perhaps
| the hardware is cheap to manufacture, but with no subscription I
| feel like they are going to get taken to the cleaner on LLM API
| fees. Even if they're running the LLM themselves, it's not cheap.
| Could they really be getting enough margin on the device to pay
| their staff _and_ all of that infra?
|
| Or maybe this is another VC-backed sale price :)
| nwoli wrote:
| I figured it's local llms on the device
| radicalbyte wrote:
| Loss leader and data collection play?
|
| EDIT: it's 100% the razor model, they want the device out there
| so they own your interaction with "service providers"; i.e.
| they take a cut of everything to do. Middle men.
| SushiHippie wrote:
| [dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38930126
| pmuse wrote:
| Cool product but I agree with others that their site does not
| really demonstrate the value proposition of the device in a clear
| way. You shouldn't have to watch the keynote to understand what
| it is.
|
| I also have a hard time believing it will work as well as they
| say it does gen-1 at a $200 price point. I'm very skeptical.
|
| The teenage engineering design is nice though, looks like
| something out of the movie Her.
| modeless wrote:
| $199 with no subscription? You must have to bring your own data
| sim card. Or can it get its connection from your phone? And is
| the AI stuff running locally on the device? Impressive if so.
| Suspicious if not; there's no way the service remains free
| forever.
|
| Pretty compelling price, and I'm certain the vision of AI agents
| that can use any existing app or website to take actions on your
| behalf is the future of computing. But there's no room in my
| pocket for a second device. I don't see how a device is going to
| succeed when an equivalent app for existing phones seems around
| the corner.
| threatofrain wrote:
| The AI runs on their cloud. It's unfortunate but the industry
| is only starting to catch onto on-device models language
| models.
| swyx wrote:
| > the industry is only starting to catch onto on-device
| models language models.
|
| i mean there are technical limitations and tradeoffs to
| running LLM-size models locally. doesnt help to ascribe it to
| lack of foresight when it is a known Hard Problem.
| whstl wrote:
| The presentation does mention a "4G-LTE sim card slot". AI
| seems to be cloud based, indeed.
| huhtenberg wrote:
| Weird, no media gets loaded on the site if the uBlock is on.
| mightyham wrote:
| The value preposition here seems pretty weak. AI voice assistants
| are, in my experience, one of the worst ways to interact with a
| computer. What does this device offer that I can't already do on
| my cell phone?
| PostOnce wrote:
| A weird cellphone that runs everything from the cloud?
|
| There's no way this isn't a nonfunctional brick in 18-36 months
| when they go bust.
| fragmede wrote:
| Teenage engineering has been around long enough they won't go
| bust in 2 years.
| simonw wrote:
| The hardware was designed by Teenage Engineering but the
| company producing the device (and presumably operating the
| cloud services it depends on) is separate.
| pixelpoet wrote:
| The "keynote" (is that what we're calling advertising videos
| now?) was pretty awful, and I'm unconvinced that making people
| unable to even use smartphones (which has already supplanted
| computer literacy for most) is progress.
|
| Extra negative taste points for wanting a "cool SUV" for a trip
| to London.
| buescher wrote:
| How else are you going to drive there from Santa Monica?
| tamimio wrote:
| Yeah when I read it felt the wannabe tech bro vibes, trying
| hard to look like Apple from the get go is not a good sign.
| dhumph wrote:
| I don't know about others, but I don't want something else to
| carry in my pocket.. especially something that duplicates what i
| can already do, just in a different way.
|
| seems like it's connecting to external services but i'm not sure
| why siri couldn't do that.
| endofreach wrote:
| How do companies like this get funding? Do they get it before
| even having a prototype?
| Hamuko wrote:
| I assume by selling products to customers.
| qingcharles wrote:
| Walk into VC meeting, say "LLM", collect cash... profit?
| theogravity wrote:
| Not sure why they felt they needed their own hardware for this.
| They could have built it for multiple platforms to get more
| traction / usage.
| rchaud wrote:
| TE is known for hardware design. To be honest, nobody cares
| about another app promising to improve some aspect of your
| life.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| Everyone wants so badly to be first to market with the "next big
| thing" after smart phones. And all of them fail the "so it's a
| phone, but just less capable?" test.
|
| A neat toy for hobbyists, but most people can't justify carrying
| two devices. And as soon as you add phone functionality to it...
| you've just made a new (more awkward) smartphone.
| max_ wrote:
| Who ever comes up with these Teenage Engineering designs is an
| actual, real genius!
| thih9 wrote:
| Note that this is not a Teenage Engineering product.
|
| This is a product sold by Rabbit - and they hired TE to help as a
| design agency.
| caseyohara wrote:
| Thank you, this is an important detail. Teenage Engineering
| isn't mentioned anywhere on the linked page, so I was confused
| about the HN title. I figured Rabbit was a new venture by TE.
| starkparker wrote:
| Yeah, if it was a Teenage Engineering product it'd cost $799.
| barrenko wrote:
| Can it make calls?
| aetherspawn wrote:
| I wish they put it next to something, I have difficulty
| understanding the size of it. People in this thread are talking
| about it like it's tiny, but I got the impression from the
| pictures that it was gameboy size.
| realo wrote:
| Nowadays we don't really buy hardware or software... We buy into
| ecosystems.
|
| The Android crowd, the Apple gang, etc... Once you are member of
| one ecosystem, friction is high enough usually to keep you in.
|
| Moreover, many of the eco-customers wear more than one device..
| phone, watch ...
|
| So... why would I buy into yet another ecosystem with a third
| device to carry?
|
| And no... most eco-clients will not abandon their current
| ecosystem that easily.
|
| The 360 degree camera is quite nice, though...
| Sirikon wrote:
| Giving your credentials to an AI to buy stuff online by scraping
| a web interface is a perfectly sane and safe idea that won't have
| any unexpected consequences whatsoever.
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| In the keynote they claim to not store credentials and seem to
| imply they're using OAuth.
| LegitShady wrote:
| I can just get an amazon echo if I want that.
| herval wrote:
| "Alexa, buy an iphone 15"
| underyx wrote:
| Two things in the keynote that seem faked:
|
| 1. at 13:13 there's a demo ordering a ride 'to home', then the
| user requests a car change to fit six people, and what's shown as
| a seamless switch from UberX to UberXL also updates the
| destination from the home address to LAX airport.
|
| 2. at 14:05 the device confirms and recites a pizza order, but
| the screen displays "chesse" with a typo while the voice reads
| out "cheese", so either the audio or the visuals is faked. My
| guess is that all of the on-device graphics were hand-written and
| hand-animated which would explain both mistakes.
|
| I stopped watching at that point. Am sort of sad to see Teenage
| Engineering associated with a product that seems so sloppy and/or
| shady.
| mjhagen wrote:
| The pitch video makes me think of General Magic.
| everythingctl wrote:
| Has any startup succeeded by starting out offering shiny hardware
| running innovative new software, all of which they have to
| develop?
|
| It seems like a fatal dilution of focus to have to worry about
| the design and logistics of a fancy dumb terminal widget when you
| also have to get the software/AI/app integration stuff right.
|
| Just make an app with text and voice interaction. Accept that the
| thing in our pockets with a screen and an internet connection is
| going to be a smartphone. You will not build an own-hardware moat
| with these weird little bits of e-waste.
| xvector wrote:
| This may just be the shittiest product website I've ever seen. It
| conveys absolutely nothing of value about the product. What
| problem does it solve?
|
| It's just "ooh, pretty pictures, buttons and camera." Seriously?
| I'm supposed to trust a product from a company that can't even
| tell me what it's about without making me sit through a 25-minute
| keynote? Are they out of their minds?
| zombiwoof wrote:
| imagine everyone in the airport lounge all with these.
| animex wrote:
| I know the $1000 device in my pocket is capable of all the things
| they implemented ... do I just wait for a Rabbit clone app? Or
| will Apple/Google just enhance their native offerings to include
| this sort of thing. I absolutely agree with the premise. Our
| phones are just mini-desktop computers accumulating unused
| programs that don't integrate with each other storing random bits
| of data all over itself. The whole device seems to be a more
| polished semantic web that we were promised years ago albeit
| being brute forced by AI because interop never evolved.
| plasticbugs wrote:
| It's a striking condemnation of the current state of things that
| my $1K+ mobile phone does not do anything close to what's in this
| demo. I would pay $200 just to have a voice assistant that isn't
| totally incapable of playing songs requested like "Play
| SONG_TITLE from ALBUM_TITLE".
|
| As an example, yesterday my daughter asked for a song from
| Cinderella. In the car I say, ~"Hey Siri, play Heigh Ho from the
| Cinderella Soundtrack". Siri: "Sure, here's Cinderella by Mac
| Miller featuring Ty Dolla Sign". Me: :smacks-forehead:~
|
| EDIT: I actually asked for Heigh Ho from Snow White... Siri:
| "Sure, here's Snow (Hey Oh) by Red Hot Chili Peppers" (try it
| yourself!)
|
| Why are Alexa and Siri still so useless, inaccurate and
| inconsistent? Why can't I yet ask Siri to "book me a ride via
| Uber from location X to location Y" or "reorder the same thing I
| got last Tuesday from Uber Eats"? I assume it's down to compute
| costs, but I would absolutely pay an additional subscription fee
| for more intelligence behind these voice assistants.
| herval wrote:
| To be fair, all of that seems quite easily done with an app -
| your phone should be more than capable of running those models.
|
| I'd imagine something like siri or alexa isn't evolving as fast
| since the server side cost at their scale would be
| astronomical..
| dabluecaboose wrote:
| >I say, "Hey Siri, play Heigh Ho from the Cinderella
| Soundtrack".
|
| It probably doesn't help that "Heigh Ho" is from Snow White
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSj2h34ZrmY
| plasticbugs wrote:
| Sorry, I did actually ask for Snow White in the car! And it
| played a song called "Snow". Haha, reproducing it here at my
| desk I mistakenly said "Cinderella"
| plasticbugs wrote:
| Siri: "Here's Snow (Hey Oh) by Red Hot Chili Peppers"
| :smacks-forehead:
| jetpackjoe wrote:
| ChatGPT seems to handle this fine
|
| > Prompt: Give me the lyrics for Heigh Ho from the Cinderella
| Soundtrack
|
| > ChatGPT: "Heigh-Ho" is actually a song from the soundtrack
| of Disney's "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs," not
| "Cinderella." The song is famously sung by the seven dwarfs
| as they head to and from their work at a mine. Here are the
| lyrics:
|
| *lyrics omitted, but they seem correct
| leephillips wrote:
| I watched the first 2:51 or so of the keynote. The guy made a
| series of assertions that he seemed to think were self-evident. I
| disagreed with every one, without exception. I gave up when he
| described the LLM as "artificial intelligence". I don't think
| I'll be a customer.
| tamimio wrote:
| > rabbit OS operates apps on our secured cloud, so you don't have
| to
|
| Absolutely Not!
| alkonaut wrote:
| I'm not talking to computers still. It's a border I just can't
| cross. Like I'd literally rather stop and type on my car display
| than try to voice in a destination. And I'd if I'm cooking and my
| hands are greasy wash my hands and pick up my phone and tap in a
| timer for 5 minutes rather than try some "set timer for 5
| minutes" voice command. Not sure I ever will start talking to
| computers, but not this year at least. Anyone else feel the same
| way? It's part because in public it feels extremely dumb. But
| mostly I think it's the frustration. At least fumbling on
| touchscreen characters is a known frustration. Trying to voice-in
| a Scandinavian street name is worse.
| triyambakam wrote:
| I agree that it's really dumb, especially in public.
| thecosas wrote:
| I mostly agree and was happy to hear that you could shake the
| device to bring up an on-screen keyboard to use on the touch
| screen.
| spacemadness wrote:
| I set timers while cooking with speech all the time and I don't
| see why that seems weird to you. I just think of it like some
| natural language parser helping me do something instead of
| talking to myself. Is it talking to yourself you find strange?
| sbarre wrote:
| Funny you say this, using Siri to set timers when cooking was
| my "gateway drug" to using voice features on my phone more
| broadly.
|
| For the longest time it was literally the only thing I used
| Siri for (cooking timers), but now I use Siri for setting
| reminders and other similar transactional stuff on my phone,
| and I use voice dictation for texts all the time in the car,
| and even sometimes when I'm walking in the cold and just
| don't want to take my gloves off..
|
| And it works great. And it doesn't feel weird at all.
| starkparker wrote:
| https://www.rabbit.tech/rabbit-os:
|
| > Record your actions, explain them with your voice, and play
| them to rabbit OS. LAM will learn the nuances and create a rabbit
| that can be applied to various scenarios.
|
| > What if you create a rabbit that could be useful to others? You
| can monetize and distribute it on our upcoming rabbit store.
|
| This is neat right up until "monetize", where everything flips
| from being a potentially cool community group of reproducible
| actions, to a pile of spam and bot-generated bullshit
| tamimio wrote:
| Next on tiktok: How I became a millionaire from this device
| selling my bot!! Link in bio!!
| karmakaze wrote:
| Why does this have to be a competing device? It can do it all on
| a web page. For that matter put it _all_ in a watch and lose the
| smartphone.
| etoxin wrote:
| Appears that only people from the northern hemisphere can order
| this, Shame.
| ark4n wrote:
| Most people won't want to carry multiple devices, and I doubt
| people will sacrifice their existing phone.
|
| When Apple implement something remotely similar to this into iOS
| (WWDC this year, anyone?), it will likely render products like
| this obsolete.
|
| Honourable mention, Teenage Engineering crushing it with the
| hardware, as usual.
| yzydserd wrote:
| I store the playdate in one sock. I can store this in the paired
| sock for a few hours of light per year.
| mathewsanders wrote:
| It's a really interesting product that I'm not going to buy!
|
| Declarative interfaces that allow you to describe what you want
| and use agents to go out to different services and chain them
| together is a cool idea:
|
| I don't want to spend time using dozens of different apps with
| different (often poorly designed) interfaces.
|
| Having a push to talk hardware button instead seems less clunky
| than a "hey siri" key phrase (I use Siri dozens of times a day
| but unfortunately 'raise to talk' feature on Apple Watch has
| never worked well for me).
|
| I'm curious how their LAM works with interfaces being updated- if
| they need to retrain with UI updates or if it's flexible enough
| to be stable with UI changes and new features etc.
|
| I currently use ChatGTP sessions to dive into various topics I'm
| interested in, and explore ideas- I do like the idea of dedicated
| hardware that would allow this, but it's something I imagine I'd
| keep on the coffee table at home, I don't want to get a dedicated
| SIM and data connection or carry around another device.
|
| They've raised $30M and I wish them well, I hope they survive and
| have me as a customer in the future.
| ojbyrne wrote:
| [delayed]
| Calamityjanitor wrote:
| This is exactly what Siri wanted to be. Compare with the original
| Siri keynote https://vimeo.com/5424527
|
| I can't find the exact ~2010 article from before being bought by
| Apple. I remember in an interview they were talking about making
| a web agent that could operate and perform tasks on any website,
| to avoid being locked out by APIs.
| lbotos wrote:
| This is HN... so what OS do we think this is running? Android
| under the hood? Anyone know more about hardware or screen res?
|
| I wonder how hard it would be to root this device and use it for
| the hardware.
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