[HN Gopher] YouTube Bans True Crime Videos That Reanimate Dead C...
___________________________________________________________________
YouTube Bans True Crime Videos That Reanimate Dead Children with AI
Author : rntn
Score : 67 points
Date : 2024-01-09 19:58 UTC (3 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (gizmodo.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (gizmodo.com)
| anigbrowl wrote:
| Good thing too. Absolute gutter exploitation, like most of the
| 'true crime' genre.
| atticora wrote:
| I disagree. AI is becoming an increasingly important tool for
| telling stories, and making it harder to tell stories about
| true crimes and dead children is not a good thing. We need our
| full range of tools to think about and communicate about these
| horrors, as much as for anything else.
| nickthegreek wrote:
| So true. I've never really been able to understand the
| visceral nature of a childs death in my 40+ years on this
| earth. Until now, the horrors could never be adequately told,
| let alone shown by complete amateurs. Luckily we now have
| notAnExploiter420 to reanimate your dead child to show their
| well researched hot take and for monetary gain!
| HenryBemis wrote:
| > tool for telling stories
|
| Yes, i.e. I am thinking of a story that would make a nice
| children's book, with some keywords (forest, cave, fire,
| marshmallows, squirrel, etc.) It would be GREAT if I can get
| some AI machine (currently using Midjourney) to describe a
| scene, to find an image that would 'improve' the story.
|
| I understand that others above mention "the law", but until
| the makers of laws react (globally) to prevent from this sh*t
| happening, we have to use basic human decency.
|
| Also, we don't need to make movies for people who don't want
| movies to be made. And yes that is a thin line (i.e. we MUST
| make movies about the holocaust so we never forget - and not
| listen to people who want this avoided). But the tragedy of a
| family is a whole different game (and it requires a human
| with a soul to tell them apart - apparently).
| LiquidPolymer wrote:
| "True Crime" as a genre is littered with unscrupulous hosts.
| But not all of it is in the gutter. In fact, some of it
| produces a public good. I admit I am attracted to these stories
| and try to choose carefully. If I may - two recommendations:
|
| "My Only Story" - an adult man notices with horror that the man
| who secretly raped him as a school boy in South Africa is still
| working as a teacher. He quits his job and starts a podcast
| about how grooming works and how the school system is letting
| pupils down. All the while he is trying to expose this man for
| who he is without being sued - so he has to dance around the
| man's name. It is riveting. The story unfolds live as he finds
| more and more fellow students who were victimized willing to go
| on the record. This leads to naming names.
|
| "The Root Of Evil" which features (in part) a retired Los
| Angeles homicide detective who believes his surgeon father was
| behind the famous Black Dahlia murder. He brings receipts. An
| astonishing amount of historical material is unearthed
| including cassette tape audio from the 70's.
|
| Story telling is such an integral part of the social
| experience. Like everything it can be corrupted by greed and
| bad incentives. Not every True Crime podcast falls into this
| trap.
| Analemma_ wrote:
| > "True Crime" as a genre is littered with unscrupulous
| hosts. But not all of it is in the gutter. In fact, some of
| it produces a public good.
|
| True crime has a similar problem to, say, commerical fishing.
| Some of the _early_ stuff was quite good, because the first
| shows to do it had their pick of complex and narratively
| satisfying events to be based on. But once the low-hanging
| fruit was plucked, subsequent shows had no choice but to
| begin trawling, in the same way that fishermen do when
| populations run thin. The _demand_ for true crime has
| considerably outpaced the supply, and hence why newer shows
| essentially can 't not be bad and dangerous: they have to
| either invent predators out of thin air or otherwise make
| mountains out of molehills.
|
| There needs to be like a 30-year moratorium on true crime, to
| let the "fish stocks" replenish.
| teeray wrote:
| > The demand for true crime has considerably outpaced the
| supply
|
| Soon it will go meta: a serial killer hosts a true crime
| show to create interesting episodes, and then other true
| crime shows have an episode on that!
| PoignardAzur wrote:
| I always thought that aspect was the creepiest part of
| the _Scream_ movies.
|
| Imagine surviving a serial killer, and knowing there are
| good odds you're going to die at the hands of another
| copycat killer before you die of old age.
| wharvle wrote:
| To some extent, those sorts of motifs are a dramatization
| and personification of _death itself_. A very real threat
| that 's usually rather immaterial and conceptual, cast as
| something you can see and touch. And that can chase you
| down an alley.
|
| Nothing got you today. But something might have! And
| something _definitely will_ sooner or later. It 's always
| lurking, it doesn't rest, it's relentless in its mission,
| and it can strike at any time. If it hasn't taken someone
| you love, just wait, it will--in fact, it'll take
| everyone you love, eventually, if you stick around long
| enough.
|
| You see similar use of the unstoppable-killer with marked
| victims (achieved via copycats and other trickery in
| _Scream_ , but it's the same idea) for the purpose of
| representing other fears, traumas, or threats that have a
| degree of universality and don't tend to entirely go
| away, as in _It Follows_. You see this whole thing made
| perhaps a bit _too_ on-the-nose in works like _Final
| Destination_ --which is why, I think, you can have
| endless unstoppable-knife-guy movies and they may retain
| some appeal, but a little bit of a "cute" very-literal
| twist on the formula like _Final Destination_ goes a long
| way; the world only needs so much of that, much as a joke
| that subverts a particular standard joke-form only works
| once or twice before it stops being amusing.
|
| The fun thing about the Scream series, when the movies
| remember it, is that the killer's emulating this
| fictional trope of an unstoppable and possibly-
| supernatural-but-not-omnipotent killer _on purpose_ , in
| "real life", which is good fodder for creative narrative,
| twists, and well-earned winks at the camera. The movies
| are meta not because they've arbitrarily chosen to be
| (though they do choose to lean into it, of course) but
| because they aren't about these kinds of fictional
| unstoppable-personification-of-death killers _directly_ ,
| but about "real people" _doing_ the unstoppable-
| personification-of-death thing in "real life", in
| imitation of film (even in the first one, before the idea
| of copycats hunting the survivors entered the picture,
| there's a _particular thing_ done in order to imitate not
| just a human knife-wielding killer, but specifically this
| kind of wholly fictional, unkillable death-dealer).
|
| Actually, as with _Final Destination_ , this is another
| thing the world only needs _so much_ of, for similar
| reasons--I 'm not sure the market would support a much
| greater rate of release for this kind of film than we
| already see. It's not as immediately-played-out, though,
| less of a one trick pony.
| kikokikokiko wrote:
| Something like 5 years ago, a "TV show" in Brazil did
| just that. It was one of those shows that showed the
| daily police operations, think COPS but "brazilian
| style", things go hardcore real easy down here. Anyway,
| it turned out that when the TV producers weren't getting
| enough of their daily dose of ultra violence to show to
| the audience, they would go out to the local drug dealers
| and ask for an eventual brutal murder, or series of
| murders, to entice the interest of the audience. It seems
| to have been going on for years before an insider tipped
| the police about it. Evil has no limits.
| javari wrote:
| That idea is basically the plot of the show "Based on A
| True Story".
| ToucanLoucan wrote:
| As with so many things: the thing itself is not the issue.
| The problem is the thing started to make money/gain traffic
| and then everyone and their mother has to jump in and start
| making derivative versions of it until it's saturated
| beyond comprehension, none of it makes any money, and they
| run off to find the next damn thing to rip off.
| datavirtue wrote:
| There is a huge series covering abducted/missing women. I
| forget the name right now. They barely scratched the
| surface. There is no way you could cover them all as the
| number keeps growing so fast.
| whycome wrote:
| There's something to be said for advances in
| storytelling/graphics/quality. The AI reanimation may be
| too far, but there are other useful storytelling tools.
| tropdrop wrote:
| Don't forget Robert Durst of _The Jinx_ - an American real
| estate heir got away with murder for decades. _The Jinx_ was
| a true crime documentary for which Durst, for some reason,
| agreed to be interviewed. I don 't want to give away any
| spoilers, but at some point throughout the interviewing Durst
| gave himself away and the evidence accrued within the
| documentary ended up being used to finally put him behind
| bars for life.
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| While obviously it can veer off into the morbid and obscene,
| anyone remember "dramatic reenactment" labels on true crime TV in
| the 90s? (maybe before too)
|
| But I do think there's a space for communicating with impactful
| re-enactment and tasteful "redaction" (censor blurs, keeping
| things off scene, or jumping forward allowing implication to tell
| the story).
|
| As with all laws, and rules, the enforcement story will tell what
| the policy actually means.
| bitshiftfaced wrote:
| I think it's something about recreating a likeness of a victim.
| A paid actor may look similar to a victim, but not exactly.
| Their image will evoke a totally different emotion from the
| victim's friends and family.
| danbruc wrote:
| The generated girl was white, the actual victim black. Also -
| after skimming another article - it seems that the child was
| killed with a knife first and only then was the body put into
| the oven, maybe in the hope to get rid of the body. This is
| more like loosely based on a true story then an accurate
| retelling of events. Also age and name are slightly altered.
| bitshiftfaced wrote:
| Does that matter? What did you think YouTube has in mind
| when they say "realistically simulate"? Sometimes you can
| see a trend coming early on, and isn't YouTube responding
| to what people will probably do in the future?
| gspencley wrote:
| > I think it's something about recreating a likeness of a
| victim.
|
| I'm pretty sure that's what the person you are replying
| to was commenting on.
|
| If you're just continuing the discussion and talking
| about whether or not the policy is a good move on
| YouTube's part, fair enough. But it kind of reads like
| you're shifting the goal post.
|
| My opinion is that I'm honestly not sure if it "matters"
| or not. YouTube has every right to make their content
| policies according to whatever drives them, be it
| business forces or their own values. As an adult consumer
| of YouTube I would personally prefer if there were a "as
| long as it is legal" policy, but I get why YouTube may
| have reasons to adopt different policies and it's not up
| to me. I recognize their right to do what they think is
| best with their business and product.
| bitshiftfaced wrote:
| The discussion, as I understood it, was about contrasting
| dramatic reenactments using actors with using digital
| recreations (i.e. "what makes these two techniques
| different?"). danbruc was talking about how the digital
| recreation in the news recently was inaccurate. I was
| questioning if that mattered, since I wasn't so much
| contrasting paid actors with that specific case but
| instead with what new technology now allows and what
| YouTube is probably trying to prevent with their policy.
| danbruc wrote:
| I was specifically replying to the following part.
|
| _A paid actor may look similar to a victim, but not
| exactly. Their image will evoke a totally different
| emotion from the victim 's friends and family._
|
| In that specific case the digital recreation - if you can
| even call it that - was quite off and far from depicting
| what the real victim looked like. It would certainly have
| been possible to do an reenactment which more closely
| matched what the actual victim looked like. Therefore I
| think any argument along the lines that an exact digital
| recreation might evoke feelings that a reenactment could
| not does - at least in this specific case - not apply.
|
| Otherwise I have really no opinion on the entire matter.
| Putting children into an oven is certainly in the range
| of things that you could find in horror movies. Context
| of course matters and also the presentation and intention
| and target audience, but I just do not know anything
| besides skimming three articles about this phenomenon to
| properly judge this.
| kragen wrote:
| > _Putting children into an oven is certainly in the
| range of things that you could find in horror movies_
|
| or for that matter popular children's fairy tales
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| I have to say I think it's more stemming from the court of
| public opinion's reaction to inappropriate content for
| kids[1] and also laws that protect kids online.
|
| [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/28/pa
| rent...
| rnk wrote:
| What if they are careful to make a fake kid who looks nothing
| like the original (other than kind of looking like a kid of
| that age and kind of looking like the same race)? There are
| dramatic re-enactments. I don't want to see this, but should
| it be banned? Is it okay if it was done with live actors?
| What about if they were on "to catch a thief"? What if it was
| a real drama or a play. What if you wanted to block a
| shakespeare play that had kids killed in it that was a
| historical event? Is it only for ai actors?
|
| This is a hard thing to figure out. I'm against true crime
| repros that are disgusting and pandering, but that's
| completely personal and ambiguous.
| throwaway4aday wrote:
| That should be done without appropriating the voice and image
| of the deceased without permission.
| contravariant wrote:
| We really ought to start thinking about better privacy rights
| for the dead. Seems like it would make sense to tie it to the
| privacy of the next of kin, or something similar, but
| splitting privacy rights amongst multiple people can get
| weird.
|
| I mean it is a bit strange that copyright is protected
| decades after someone died, but privacy is pretty much gone
| the moment someone breathes their last.
| RecycledEle wrote:
| > That should be done without appropriating the voice and
| image of the deceased without permission.
|
| I disagree. If I were in charge, I would encourage factually
| correct reenactments and ban fake news.
|
| An example is the long time Hollyweird trend of replacing
| ugly historical figures with beautiful keading people. Bonnie
| Parker (likely a relative of mine) was not a hottie.
| Pretending she was distorts the story. Ugly girls who are
| prodigies live different lives than pretty girls. The current
| fashion of replacing people of one race with people of
| another race distorts history. If you want a black leading
| lady, there are many stories to chose from.
| canucker2016 wrote:
| Forensic Files, on the Headline News Network - though they seem
| to have given up on the 'News' part of their programming
| recently, shows crime reenactments with narration and comments
| from people related to the episode's incident in question.
| canucker2016 wrote:
| Looks like someone has uploaded some episodes of Forensic
| Files, as well as other crime-related shows, to YouTube.
| whycome wrote:
| I'm pretty sure the rightsholder, Filmrise, makes them all
| available for free. (At least in Canada)
| (https://www.youtube.com/@FilmRiseTrueCrime)
|
| It's also cool to see the rightsholder (Cineflix?) of
| Mayday/Air Crash Investigation put everything up on YouTube
| for free as well.
| (https://www.youtube.com/@MaydayAirDisaster)
| allturtles wrote:
| I'm pretty sure none of those network TV dramatic reenactments
| had a 2-year-old actor talking about how their grandmother
| stuffed them in an oven. I think that would have caused a bit
| of a stir.
| 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
| Black Mirror covered re-animation of loved ones via AI &
| robotics:
|
| Be Right Back
|
| Black Mirror: Season 2, Episode 1
| nomel wrote:
| There are already services for this [1].
|
| This is also how https://replika.ai started [2].
|
| 1. https://news.yahoo.com/ai-takes-on-grief-and-loss-with-
| new-c...
|
| 2. https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-nature-of-
| things/after-...
| teekert wrote:
| One of the best ones of the series if you ask me, and a true
| insight into the role of human grief.
|
| It's also is an eerily accurate prediction of things now (about
| 10 years after release) very much possible.
| sudosteph wrote:
| There's also a great Adult Swim Infomercial satirizing this
| idea, "Live Forever As you Are Now with Alan Resnick"[1].
| Apparently it came out the same year as that Black Mirror
| episode (2013) !
|
| [I]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xg29TuWo0Yo
| rplnt wrote:
| If you want to see a true crime, try that website on a phone
| without an ad blocker. Screen-sized ad after every sentence or
| two.
| qingcharles wrote:
| And I would hate to see the total payload of the page too for
| those running with 5GB/month limits on their data.
| thriftwy wrote:
| In Russia they have passed a law some time ago that you can never
| post dead children faces in any mass media (so they pixelate or
| draw over).
|
| I was thinking that it is most stupid law, but now I don't. Oh
| boy how right these lawmakers were in light of this new
| development.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2024-01-09 23:01 UTC)