[HN Gopher] Xreal's new AR glasses are aimed at the Apple Vision...
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Xreal's new AR glasses are aimed at the Apple Vision Pro
Author : dragonbonheur
Score : 35 points
Date : 2024-01-07 17:18 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| SushiHippie wrote:
| I doubt that these glasses, with a form factor of sunglasses, are
| meant to compete with the vision pro, which is basically a
| computer in the formfactor of a diving mask.
|
| But it does look like a cool, maybe even useful, gadget
| nonetheless.
| brookst wrote:
| Agree, seems like a classic "put Apple in the headline for
| clicks" bit of deception.
|
| These look really cool and I'm tempted, but a 56 degree FOV and
| no built in PC-class computer mean this is not a Vision Pro
| compete.
| freedomben wrote:
| There probably is _some_ of that, but Xreal did use the same
| language that Apple did when describing their Vision Pro (
| "spatial computing") which I think justifies the article:
|
| > _Xreal pitches the Air 2 Ultra as a full-fledged "spatial
| computing" device similar to its earlier Light mixed reality
| device, which also featured 6DOF tracking._
| brookst wrote:
| Fair point, I'd missed that.
| tracerbulletx wrote:
| Given the product category and the range of trade offs different
| VR/AR products make, it's a huge stretch to say they're competing
| with Apple Vision Pro. They're competing with some of the other
| light weight lower cost PCVR products maybe. I can't imagine
| saying it's "aimed" at the Vision Pro.
| threeseed wrote:
| Apple's screens each have 5x more pixels per inch.
|
| That is significant for a headset designed to be used for work.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Apple's not really pitching it as a work device though. Their
| marketing is very consumer focused.
| jitl wrote:
| There was a fair bit of work stuff in the announcement; I
| personally am primarily interested in Vision Pro as a monitor
| replacement. Furthermore I've talked to someone who's used it
| a few times and they see it's two use cases as content
| consumption (like 3D video / experience, not so much gaming)
| and content authoring (3D/VR video, architecture, and desktop
| monitor use case)
| _neil wrote:
| Is it? I remember a lot of the launch video being depicted in
| an office or studio environment, aside from the dad taking 3d
| photos of his kids.
| ShamelessC wrote:
| The opposite is true, actually.
| mhh__ wrote:
| I'd imagine the bulk of the sales at that price point will be
| people or companies justifying it as a work expense.
| jb1991 wrote:
| It would seem you have not actually seen the marketing before
| commenting on it.
| jwells89 wrote:
| It's my belief that very high pixel density (and the GPU power
| to drive it) becoming cheap is going to be one of the factors
| that proves crucial to taking AR goggles/glasses/etc
| mainstream. The densities that've been economical thus far
| don't cut it.
| drewg123 wrote:
| I bought a pair of the xreal air glasses about 6 months ago,
| with the intention of using them to code. However, the pixel
| density is so low that text looks seriously janky, and I don't
| use them for code.
|
| My backup use was to hook them to my iPhone & use them to watch
| netflix / appletv, etc, on a plane. However, that doesn't work
| as they don't support hdcp. So the only thing I can watch is
| non-DRMed video that I record myself. Sigh.
| walterbell wrote:
| Would a legal HMDI converter help, https://www.avforums.com/t
| hreads/hdcp-2-2-to-1-4-converters....
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Hmm Apple didn't go for bird bath optics for a reason. It's just
| not there yet in terms of active display area and it can't
| display black.
|
| But I'm looking forward to the reviews.
| sigmar wrote:
| Are there any physical stores where one can demo Xreal products?
| wadim wrote:
| In Germany there's a company renting those (and other VR
| headsets, consoles, etc.) out. It's not super expensive. Maybe
| there's something similar where you are? A month for you to
| test it in the comforts of your own home might be better than 5
| minutes in some shop.
| homarp wrote:
| is that https://unboundxr.eu/vr-headset-verhuur ?
| mentos wrote:
| Bigger question I have is if they pioneer a new device category
| aren't they just doing free research for Apple who can fast
| follow with their trillion dollar product manufacturing and
| marketing machine?
| hhh wrote:
| > aimed at the Apple Vision Pro
|
| > $699
|
| No they're not.
| TrueGeek wrote:
| This isn't a bad price point for a set of glasses that allows for
| shared spatial anchors. It is disappointing that they don't
| provide SDK access to the front cameras. If they are truly
| targeting the business market they need to go after the customer
| service industry, one of HoloLen's biggest niches.
|
| Years ago, with their original dev kit, they had a set of glasses
| that offered an SDK with video access, spatial anchors, all kinds
| of stuff. I don't know why they just didn't continue selling
| that.
| walterbell wrote:
| Are any headsets offering OSS firmware and software?
| ajdude wrote:
| I bought the xreal air one last year. Just looks like a pair of
| sunglasses, plugs into my MacBook Air via USB-C, and Projects
| three 1080 P monitors in my field of vision. I set my laptop up
| at a cafe, black out my macbook's screen, and it works pretty
| well. Been doing this almost every day for months.
|
| They also have a device that let you cast to the glasses
| wirelessly so I can go for a walk and have a little YouTube video
| in the bottom right corner of my field of view (think of those
| old picture in picture TVs)
| treyfitty wrote:
| I don't think we're ready for a world where sunglassed people
| in a cafe sit there staring blankly. Imagine what it's like for
| the various patrons as you adjust your field of view towards
| their direction. Just awkward.
| ajdude wrote:
| While this probably makes it sound worse, since it projects
| two 1080 P monitors on either side of the one in the center,
| I'm often looking back-and-forth between the three monitors.
|
| Essentially it's like having a large 1080 P monitor in front
| of you, and then two on either side at an angle.
| PhilippGille wrote:
| It was similar when wireless earbuds became popular and
| people were walking towards you on a sidewalk or standing
| next to you in a tram and started talking, without a phone in
| their hand. You get used to it.
| kleiba wrote:
| I don't think I ever will.
| bethekind wrote:
| Are there any downsides for doing work with these? I really
| can't wait for the first time I can work with a laptop from
| anywhere (just need multiple monitors and a Internet
| connection)
| shiftpgdn wrote:
| If you are easily motion sick they will not work for you.
| They're a great product though, and I love the idea.
| Unfortunately I move my head around too much when sitting
| still I get motion sick trying to read text.
| ajdude wrote:
| The Nebula software they have anchors the screens in a
| stationary spot which helps alleviate the motion sickness.
| rokkitmensch wrote:
| I get plenty of hacking done in bed with 'em. I don't even
| bother with the multi-display stuff AR.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| It's like working on a projector. Having 3 projectors in
| front of you is amazing compared to a small laptop, but it's
| still not bettter than a proper desk setup.
|
| I do find it annoying how isolating the glasses are. It's
| hard to look around and daydream
| binkHN wrote:
| Very cool. The article mentions a newer version that has two
| 1080p screens, one for each eye. Does this mean the older
| version you're using is more capable in this regard?
| ajdude wrote:
| Both versions have a 1080p screen for each eye, but when you
| plug them into the computer they anchor 3 virtual 1080p
| screen in front of you in AR. It's similar to if you had 3
| monitors in front of you.
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| Perhaps I lack imagination, but for so many of these AR/VR
| glasses I just don't understand who the target market is besides
| (a) gamers and (b) niche commercial applications. To be clear, I
| think those 2 markets are big enough to support building some
| great products (I've played some games on the Quest and loved
| them), but all of these companies (especially Meta) seem to have
| the belief that most of us will be wearing these for a large
| portion of the day, and I just don't buy it. If anything, I want
| _less_ distraction and notifications from my devices.
| IggleSniggle wrote:
| I agree on the last part. I've been considering declutterring
| my desk by replacing my multi monitor setup with a headset,
| though. I like that it would be more portable, more dynamic,
| and take up less space than my current setup.
| guhidalg wrote:
| I believe Apple's goal is to exploit network effects of having
| multiple users with headsets in a semi-persistent environment.
| As in, a simultaneously physical and virtual conference room
| where your whole team can meet and interact with one or more
| applications at the same time. Instead of sitting in a room
| having a PowerPoint read to you, you can be at home in your
| pajamas and attend the meeting with all of the non-verbal cues
| you would get as if you were in the meeting room. Your
| Teams/Slack chat would get projected onto the wall so the
| presenter doesn't miss a question.
|
| Idk probably it'll just be games though...
| prng2021 wrote:
| You shouldn't need to have an empty space to support a 65 inch
| or larger tv to feel immersed when you're watching my a
| show/movie. Similarly, you shouldn't need to buy a big desk to
| support 3 big monitors just so you can multitask better.
|
| If you're looking to replace furniture in your house and you
| can overlay a new sofa over your current one using AR glasses
| to compare the size and how the color fits with the rest of
| your things, wouldn't that be great?
|
| Imagine you're assembling a toy or furniture and AR glasses can
| guide you through which piece to connect where.
|
| There are so so many new possibilities as AR/VR matures.
| sho_hn wrote:
| I think it's worse. I can't shake the feeling that these AR/VR
| devices would be actively harmful if they actually became
| popular. So many of us already live in a strange artificial
| bubble of routine city life, digital concerns and work in MS
| Teams, disconnected from the wider physical world and the lives
| of but a few handpicked other people. Strapping screens to our
| faces and increasingly ignoring what's actually out there can
| only make this malady worse.
|
| To me the "haha, it will never catch on and remain a niche form
| factor" thinking is the optimistic take. If they stay a rarely-
| used, sophisticated toy I think that's just fine. If they
| actually become the Next Big Thing, we'd all lose.
|
| The sad part is that I think they do have a lot to offer to
| e.g. the immobile, and I understand looking forward to the
| technology becoming better if you are in that demo.
| maxdo wrote:
| This is a classical West vs Asian.
|
| This glasses case is a very good example. Apple is building a
| super duper expensive ego-driven project no one will ever buy at
| this price.
|
| The Western world is trying hard to deliver something colossal
| and giant and sometimes even remarkable. It is driven by ego-
| centric: "I'm so smart, my product needs to be the best of the
| best, and I'll be talking to my grandkids about this product".
| With something like iPhone, it works.
|
| The China-style approach is the classical bottom-up approach.
| I'll build something I can sell today. I'm not afraid to go with
| sub par product if people will buy it. I will mobilize my group
| because otherwise, we will not survive. I will sell it a lot. I
| will iterate a lot. As a result, I will make lots of money and
| become famous. The outcome is the same, but look at that. China
| has so many companies now in any area where it competes. And that
| combines with the government pushing from the top very long term
| 10 years+ initiatives. Solar, EVs, nuclear, Air industry, and
| Education in general.
|
| This pattern is so deep in the culture. You can even see it with
| the military. And it's evident that the root cause of the problem
| is the lack of a healthy environment for manufacturing.
|
| Just look at trade wars between China and the West. Microchips
| aside, what is the subject of war? The US ban pork exports in
| response to Huawei. Europe is trading French alcohol export
| quotas for EV imports.
|
| This is extremely sad. The impact of the Western world's de-
| industrialization is huge. The current war in Ukraine emphasizes
| the Western incapability to produce almost anything in volume. Or
| with any quality. The few items still good due to 20-30
| investments are just a delusion of previous capabilities.
| vlovich123 wrote:
| You realize you're talking about a company that only
| historically releases a new product that they think will make
| billions of dollars and ship lots of units right? Vision Pro is
| shaping up to be the exception. The counterpoint to that
| strategy is Meta which is pricing the Quest as cheaply as
| possible and selling as absolutely many as they can. I'm really
| not seeing this pattern you're describing.
|
| China historically just copies successful products and largely
| ignores IP, not coming up with anything novel. They are
| changing that pattern following the path America did to seize
| control from the UK (& arguably faster too). If anything, this
| suggests it would be more beneficial for us to have IP
| durations match typical market cycles for products rather than
| be blanket 15 years.
|
| > The current war in Ukraine emphasizes the Western
| incapability to produce almost anything in volume
|
| That's a different problem than manufacturing of consumer
| products. Apple ships nearly 1B phones each year. Yes, it's
| assembled in China but most of the components are manufactured
| elsewhere & they're standing up assembly plants elsewhere (e.g.
| India).
| engcoach wrote:
| > The US ban pork exports in response to Huawei. Europe is
| trading French alcohol export quotas for EV imports.
|
| Might have to do with hitting China where it hurts - food
| imports might have a more pronounced impact
| KaiserPro wrote:
| It will be interesting to see what the displays are like.
|
| AR is _very_ hard for a number of reasons:
|
| 1) the screens are really difficult to get right: too bright and
| you have no battery/burn your face, too dim and you've got really
| effective sunglasses
|
| 2) if you don't have local dimming (ie being able to take away
| light rather than emit it) then everything looks shit
|
| 3) input is super hard. No keboard, no mice, no touch screen.
| Sure you have hand tracking, but without third party sensors, you
| have to have your hands in view to track them. This means gorrila
| arms or just plain fucking frustration.
|
| 4) without a second CPU/GPU battery box, you have no compute
| power. Glasses only have about enough space for 2 watt hours of
| battery.
|
| 5) good 6dof tracking is compute expensive without custom
| silicon.
| infocollector wrote:
| 6) I think the threshold for visual display in AR will be 4k in
| each eye, and 120Hz + USB-C (with mac air m4?) - is where the
| game will begin.
|
| I think we are getting there...
| jimmySixDOF wrote:
| Meta's CTO says they will start to demo internally "the most
| advanced pice of consumer hardware ever developed" so we may
| be getting there sooner than most people think.
| KaiserPro wrote:
| Boz's track record on that is not great.
|
| The thing he's talking about is already three years too
| late, doesn't have the display it needs, and are _fucking_
| expensive[1] moreover the software is horrendously
| unstable.
|
| [1] https://mixed-news.com/en/meta-ar-glasses-orion-made-
| in-usa-...
| jayd16 wrote:
| Threshold in what sense?
| asylteltine wrote:
| I want something I can wear on a flight and forget about my
| environment. I want to block out light entirely. Seems like
| Vision Pro is the best option for this. I'm hoping Apple will
| surprise us and steam vr gaming will be possible...
| edmundsauto wrote:
| The quest 3 is probably better at blocking things out than the
| more open design of the AVP.
| rokkitmensch wrote:
| The XReals are also fantastic for your application.
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