[HN Gopher] Diesel-Electric Conversion Kits for Old Pickups
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Diesel-Electric Conversion Kits for Old Pickups
Author : cf100clunk
Score : 27 points
Date : 2024-01-06 18:01 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
| cf100clunk wrote:
| Previously submitted video link here:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37985741
| marcus0x62 wrote:
| > The kit will "ideally" retail for one-third to half the price
| of a new diesel truck while providing estimated savings of 30% on
| fuel.
|
| I don't think there are any new 3/4 or 1 ton diesel trucks that
| can be had for less than $60k. So, $20 - $30k for this kit, under
| "ideal" circumstances. A nice 12V[0] Cummins rebuild can be had
| for $10k, plus figure another $2,500 to install.
|
| So, your engine blows up and you decide you want to either
| replace it with one of these kits for $30k or a get a nice
| rebuild for say $13k. Over the life of a light duty diesel engine
| (which to continue with our 12V Cummins example might be 750k -
| 1m miles,) @ 15 MPG, 30% fuel savings amounts to around 20,000
| gallons of diesel fuel, which at $5/gallon is a $100,000 savings.
|
| If you believe these kits will be as reliable and long-lasting as
| a diesel engine, they might make good enough economic sense to
| increase the...not large... number of diesel pickup owners
| looking to go electric.
|
| 0 - A "12V Cummins" is a 5.9L 12 _valve_ diesel engine made by
| Cummins. They were used in Ram 2500 /3500 pickup trucks between
| 1989 and 1998, and along with the Ford 7.3L Power Stroke would be
| a potentially popular target for the kit discussed in the
| article.
| matrix_overload wrote:
| The biggest trouble is that a lithium battery that will last 8
| years, and the one that will puff up in a year and lose 80% of
| capacity, all look the same when you buy them. It's all about
| the purity of materials, quality control, and other things you
| don't see without a microscope.
|
| Big players like Ford play it very safe with their own cell
| manufacturers, but a random smaller-scale startup might be
| forced to buy the cells from the lowest bidder on Aliexpress,
| and that won't fare well.
| marcus0x62 wrote:
| No doubt. The last sentence in my post is doing a lot of
| heavy lifting.
| abe_m wrote:
| The guys making this kit are working to launch a full
| diesel/electric hybrid transport truck for heavy haul
| applications. They plan to use cells from the same supplier
| as they are going to use for the heavy trucks, and hope to
| increase volume on their purchases.
| triyambakam wrote:
| Can you share more about the 12V Cummins rebuild? How does that
| work?
| marcus0x62 wrote:
| Sorry, I should have clarified. A "12V Cummins" is a 5.9L
| Cummins Diesel engine with _12 valves_ (one intake and one
| exhaust valve for each of the 6 cylinders.) It is a popular
| (and reliable) diesel engine used in older Dodge Ram pickup
| trucks.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| It's depends on the specific engine, but you essentially tear
| it down then replace or machine parts back to high quality.
|
| For example, cylinders and walls may develop too much gap
| over the years. You can machine the walls out a bit then
| slide a sleeve in to get it back to original sizes. Lots of
| manual work, but cheaper than a new engine.
|
| You might also replace a bunch of other components along the
| way. The key thing is the engine block is generally still
| sound, even if other parts have warm out a bit.
| LgWoodenBadger wrote:
| I thought this would be similar to the diesel-electric term with
| respect to trains. Which is also something I'm shocked isn't
| (hasn't?) been tried with semis. Get rid of the 18 speed
| transmissions, have a "max efficiency" mode for regular use, and
| a "max power" mode for hill climbing.
| starbase wrote:
| agreed. diesel-electric powertrain has a specific meaning, and
| this ain't it. this is a diesel hybrid
| theossuary wrote:
| Yeah I did some research on this a while ago because I had the
| same thought, diesel/electric drive-train seems like a no-
| brainer for trucks, and maybe even other vehicles. Basically a
| generator in an electric drive-train, with the possibility of
| introducing batteries too.
|
| Sadly the main drawback seems to be cost; as is evident in the
| pricing of the startup's product. More than that, until
| gasoline vehicle externalities are properly priced in, the cost
| of any alternative will be exorbitant in comparison.
|
| There have been some concept vehicles, and larger commercial
| vehicles; but they never caught on. It seems like electric will
| win before diesel/electric has a real chance. I always thought
| it'd make the most sense on motor homes and the like, where
| people tend to bring a small generator for electric appliances
| anyway.
|
| https://wikicars.org/en/Diesel-Electric_Hybrid
| pixl97 wrote:
| Electric cannot win in semi applications for the foreseeable
| future. We'd need many more terawatts of power in the to
| supply their needs.
| vvanders wrote:
| Yeah, I think there have been a few tractors that have used
| them. I wish it was an option over hydrostatic transmissions.
| pokeymcsnatch wrote:
| Truck manufacturers measure fuel efficiencies to the tenths and
| compete on that. At highway speeds, ICE engines win over a pure
| electric system, so throwing in another conversion step hurts.
| For city routes, pure electric is better than diesel-electric.
|
| So in general, the disadvantages of a diesel-electric system
| outweigh any advantages when you take a look at how trucks
| operate.
|
| New trucks have "automatic" transmissions (not torque
| converters- they're more like automatically shifting standard
| transmissions), so no manual shifting required.
|
| Somewhat related, but refrigerated trailers ("refers") often
| use a diesel-electric system because it's easy to plug in to
| shore power and cut the diesel engine.
| pixl97 wrote:
| A fair portion of large work trucks aren't moving all the
| time but require running. This is what Edison is shooting for
| currently. Jobs that have a lot of sitting, such as piles of
| things (ironically) in the oil industry and things in Welding
| applications. Municipal trucks can benefit by running full
| electric in sensitive areas.
|
| Pure electric just won't work for any sizable portion of
| trucks getting converted, grid requirements just can't be
| met.
| abe_m wrote:
| These same guys are building a commercial heavy-haul,
| vocational targeted diesel-electric hybrid truck. Their plan is
| to run a diesel at about half the normal displacement, and have
| batteries for a few hundred km of range. The axles are e-axles
| with no mechanical connection from engine to axles. The guys
| that started the company are heavy-haul truckers, and they
| think they've found some niches were the diesel-electric would
| shine.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| I think we are at the point where batteries are cheaper than
| generators hence it makes no economical sense...
| SigmundA wrote:
| Mechanical transmission are in the high 90's percent efficient
| at highway speed, almost no losses.
|
| Diesel Electric transmissions in trains are in the 80's percent
| efficient range, double conversion from mechanical to
| electrical back to mechanical has higher losses. Trains make up
| for this with lower rolling and aero resistance, they need the
| precise traction control of the electric transmission to
| prevent wheel slip along with the impracticality of
| mechanically routing power to the wheels. Semis do not have
| this issue.
| starbase wrote:
| having driven my share of old pickups, the frames aren't going to
| be up to the task of carrying any significant load with this kit
| installed. Might be fine for tooling around town with your
| girlfriend, but that's about it.
|
| IMO it would make more sense to sell the kits as a complete
| rolling chassis, with a brand new F250 frame, and let
| coachbuilders slap on whatever body they want.
| more_corn wrote:
| Don't you love it when you're reading an article and you're
| engaged and interested. And then they pop up something "not the
| article" in your face, breaking your flow?
|
| I fucking love that. It makes me want to hug them in the face
| with my balled up fists or maybe something sharp. Why have we
| decided that the way to delight our audience is to annoy the fuck
| out of them?
|
| Let's all take a moment to reflect on where we went so wrong
| since I can't recommend that you click the link and try to read
| the article.
| elintknower wrote:
| These kits are awesome, but these vehicles are quite literally
| death traps.
|
| Once the gasoline engine in my VW starts to kick, I'm very
| tempted to do a hybrid compressed natural gas upgrade.
| Potentially down the line a full electric upgrade since I'll
| still have a manual transmission.
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