[HN Gopher] BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 3...
___________________________________________________________________
BYD's YangWang U8 launched, can float on water for 30 minutes and
sail 3km/h
Author : belter
Score : 117 points
Date : 2024-01-06 17:58 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (carnewschina.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (carnewschina.com)
| diggan wrote:
| Seems like BYD has surpassed Tesla as the biggest EV maker as of
| the end of 2023:
| https://www.ft.com/content/716c9b0b-d8cd-491a-a91b-d70c1e540...
| (https://archive.is/LOiYh)
|
| I'm guessing that Musk's unwillingness to work with the rules and
| norms in the markets Tesla is trying to enter, will be Tesla's
| downfall. Hopefully Tesla could somehow get rid of Musk as it
| seems like he is constantly holding Tesla back quite a bit.
| (edit: some context:
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...)
| madaxe_again wrote:
| I'll bite the bait, and will point out that Tesla sales this Q
| have been suppressed by people awaiting model refreshes.
| kamikaz1k wrote:
| Moreover, you wanna focus on production + days spent in
| inventory.
|
| Deliveries have more factors involved, and really only useful
| if full production capacity isn't being fully sold out (which
| I believe still is).
| pengaru wrote:
| BYD isn't even available in all markets Tesla is. For it to
| surpass Tesla globally _without_ selling to US buyers is
| nothing to shake a stick at.
| adventured wrote:
| You can't sell dangerous $10,000 EVs in affluent markets in
| Europe, North America, Japan, etc. Fairly strict build &
| safety regulations prevent that.
| reisse wrote:
| I'd say dieselgate, Tesla self-driving safety
| investigation and the recent Toyota/Daihatsu scandal
| shows regulations are not working as well as people wish
| them to.
| pengaru wrote:
| China's EVs are already in the UK under the MG marque
| (SAIC[0]) and there's no reason to think BYD won't follow
| suit AFAICT.
|
| It's just a matter of when, not if, from where I'm
| sitting.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAIC_Motor#MG
| diggan wrote:
| > I'll bite the bait
|
| I guess I'll do the same? Why have curious conversation when
| you can assume the worst?
|
| > Tesla sales this Q have been suppressed by people awaiting
| model refreshes
|
| You're just saying "Tesla had less sales because of bad $X"
| with fancier words. The importance is not why Tesla fucked up
| (that's up to them to figure out), but that they're now being
| surpassed even though they had a huge headstart.
| belltaco wrote:
| Included in the stat are $10K cars sold in China, maybe
| Tesla doesn't want to compete in the extreme low end just
| like Apple doesn't make $150 phones. Being a profitable
| barely #2 in a large and growing market is somehow fucking
| up?
|
| If you are world #2 in your field of work do you consider
| yourself a failure and that you fucked up? That's a sad
| existence.
| diggan wrote:
| > If you are world #2 in your field of work do you
| consider yourself a failure and that you fucked up?
| That's a sad existence.
|
| Personally, I wouldn't, I don't care what "position" I'm
| at, as long as I have enough. But I'm fairly sure that
| Musk would take that as a failure, especially if you've
| been #1 for a bunch of quarters and suddenly you aren't.
|
| (Musk has repeated many times that he wants Tesla to be
| the biggest automaker [by volume]
| https://dallasexpress.com/business-markets/teslas-goal-
| large...)
| belltaco wrote:
| Musk and Tesla opened up EV patents to help other car
| companies make and sell EVs, more EVs are getting into
| the hands of people so that's a good thing.
|
| https://sustainablebrands.com/read/behavior-change/tesla-
| ope...
| __m wrote:
| Under the condition that Tesla can use their patents in
| return.
| Veserv wrote:
| That is just a lie their marketing department tells to
| make themselves look better thinking people will not look
| further.
|
| Their actual pledge:
| https://www.tesla.com/legal/additional-resources#patent-
| pled...
|
| States you can use Tesla patents if you agree to let
| Tesla use your patents, rip-off your products, make
| counterfeits, and steal your trade secrets.
|
| That is worse than standard patent reciprocity agreements
| and I think most companies would prefer paying for
| regular patent licensing over such ludicrous IP
| overreach. Tesla and Elon Musk somehow proposed something
| even less open than regular patents and had the gall to
| lie about being openness advocates.
| belltaco wrote:
| > rip-off your products, make counterfeits, and steal
| your trade secrets.
|
| Not seeing that in your link, can you quote the relevant
| parts or cite better sources?
| Etheryte wrote:
| This is a stat that people keep bringing up while completely
| ignoring the fact that many of BYD's vehicles are not
| marketable outside of China because they're just rip-offs of
| other manufacturers' vehicles. See BYD S8 [0] and Mercedes-Benz
| CLK-Class [1] for one example, but there are numerous. This
| should tell you everything you need to know about this company.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_S8
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_CLK-Class
| diggan wrote:
| > that many of BYD's vehicles are not marketable outside of
| China
|
| Yet, it seems like they're beating a lot of other EV makers
| across the world, and are producing top-selling vehicles in a
| bunch of countries. So seems it's somewhat working outside of
| China? Or I misunderstand what you mean.
| acover wrote:
| The price outside china is very different. In Colombia for
| example their 10k car is 150,000,000 cop or about 35k.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| This might have to do with Columbian import tariffs, it
| might also not be exactly the same car.
| endisneigh wrote:
| Why does it matter if it's a rip off or not? If a design is
| good why not reuse?
| sidlls wrote:
| Because it demonstrates a theft of tech and design, which
| puts their credibility and integrity in question. Is the
| derivative safe (actually safe, not government-of-China
| wanting a feather in its cap rubber-stamp safe)? Is the
| derivative actually comparable (i.e. is the marketing a
| lie)? Aside from that, do we want to reward companies that
| steal other companies' ideas?
| endisneigh wrote:
| Please do tell me a company that has released something
| that is independently invented in its entirety with
| respect to "tech and design"
|
| Such a ridiculous take on a technology forum.
|
| It's a waste of human energy to reinvent the wheel. Not
| to mention the example given earlier is irrelevant since
| it's no longer in production anyway.
| sidlls wrote:
| Please stop moving the goalposts. Iterating on the past
| is different from thieving entire designs, and you know
| it.
| endisneigh wrote:
| There is more to design than its surface appearance, and
| the car described earlier uses an entirely different
| drivetrain than the Mercedes...
|
| I swear the stupidest takes on this forum called "hacker
| news". Hackers who usually reuse the same exploit "tech
| and design", lol...
| stavros wrote:
| > See BYD S8 [0] and Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class [1] for one
| example
|
| I was thinking "come on, how similar can they be, the CLK has
| a really distinctive design", but nope, identical. Wow.
| buran77 wrote:
| The design can change as long as the tech inside is legal to
| sell elsewhere and does the job. I'd say the design is anyway
| the first to change because tastes may differ between
| continents (even between US and Europe).
|
| The example you gave is for a 15 year old car where only 100
| were produced and Mercedes couldn't have been too upset since
| they signed a partnership with BYD that year. Around the same
| time Tesla was selling Lotus Roadsters. In the meantime
| obviously neither still needs to do that. BYD will sell
| outside of China whatever they are legally allowed to sell on
| top of the growing sales they have inside China.
|
| > This should tell you everything you need to know about this
| company.
|
| If you're too focused on how they did business 15 years ago
| you might miss that they're passing by you today. Does Musk
| tell you everything you need to know about Tesla? Millions
| are still buying. If you don't buy BYD it won't be because
| they were copying the megastars of the time decades ago.
|
| I'm not a fan of Chinese business practices but a lot of big
| companies everywhere started by copying more established
| competing products.
| kccqzy wrote:
| You are choosing an example from more than a decade ago, at a
| time when not even Chinese people chose BYD vehicles. To wit
| the S8 sold 103 units. Things have changed. You are ignoring
| the fact that plenty of BYD's vehicles are already marketed
| and sold in Europe, other Asian countries, and Australia.
| senkora wrote:
| Extremely anecdotally, I saw their vehicles on display at a
| mall in Costa Rica.
| lgleason wrote:
| I have seen a few on the road in Costa Rica as well.
| There are not a lot of electric cars on the roads down
| there despite the tax incentives because they are too
| expensive for the average Tico. You also seen a decent
| number of Cherry, Geely, Great Wall and JAC on the road
| down there as well...among other Chinese makes.
| robocat wrote:
| I see a few BYD in New Zealand - was outselling model Y
| last year: https://thedriven.io/2023/06/09/byd-tops-nz-
| electric-sales-i... although numbers might be misleading:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38894690
|
| NZ mostly buys second hand vehicles from Japan, so new
| vehicle sales numbers are low.
| kalleboo wrote:
| They have a dealership where I live in a southern
| Japanese city now. Seems like a very bold move, Japan
| must be a very difficult market for a Chinese brand...
|
| I'm visiting Australia now and you see lots of Great Wall
| trucks
| manmal wrote:
| In Austria, they have begun winning contracts with public
| agencies. Their offering is just good, not least due to
| their top notch battery tech.
| inasio wrote:
| I just rode a BYD taxi (Uber) in Mexico city, I believe it
| was the BYD D1. Super comfortable, tons of leg space,
| minivan-style door. The driver claimed that after 100K kms
| the range was still within 1% of baseline.
| blackoil wrote:
| That is a 2006 car and BYD is gaining market in Europe,
| Middle East and SEA also.
| roughly wrote:
| Hyundai's early designs could charitably be called
| "derivative," too. Even the early Japanese cars aped existing
| design languages.
| woobar wrote:
| I am not sure it is such a big deal to have a car that looks
| like a competitor.
|
| Ford used to advertise Ford Granada that looks like a new
| Cadillac and costs less. [1]
|
| [1]
| https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/AdwAAOSw~Chg93LK/s-l1600.jpg
| cowboyscott wrote:
| > In 2009 the car sold in 96 units, and only seven cars were
| sold in the full 2010 fiscal year. Production has now ceased.
| In all, the car sold in only 103 units
|
| This is like saying we should ignore Tesla because the only
| car they sold in 2009 was a rip-off Lotus.
|
| Speaking as an American, I'd love to see what the presence of
| low-end (say, $10k range) autos would do to traffic laws and
| city planning.
| adventured wrote:
| > This is like saying we should ignore Tesla because the
| only car they sold in 2009 was a rip-off Lotus.
|
| No it's not like saying that. Lotus had a deal with Tesla.
|
| https://www.tesla.com/blog/lotus-position
| cowboyscott wrote:
| That's right, I didn't mean to imply theft of any kind.
| I'm mostly pointing out that both companies sort of
| outsourced the body design (BYD in a more questionable
| way) as they figured out how to grow. Both companies were
| quite small production-wise in 2009 and are very
| different today.
| sudosysgen wrote:
| BYD also had a deal with Mercedes, for a brand called
| Denza, in the following year.
| vitorgrs wrote:
| BYD is very marketable here in Brazil, and the sales are
| rising like crazy...
| osigurdson wrote:
| I think if they make a good product it should always be
| possible to hire a designer to make their cars look good
| without industrial design infringements.
| samr71 wrote:
| If he was willing to work with the rules and norms of the
| markets they want to enter, they'd sell even fewer cars. If
| they had to deal with the same regulations and IP laws as
| China, they'd sell more.
| diggan wrote:
| > If he was willing to work with the rules and norms of the
| markets they want to enter, they'd sell even fewer cars
|
| Well, as it stands right now, BYD looks to be the more
| popular option in countries like Sweden just because Musk
| refuses to do what every other single company does in the
| country. Even Amazon found a way to work in a way that the
| common person is protected, why can't Tesla?
| belltaco wrote:
| > Well, as it stands right now, BYD looks to be the more
| popular option in countries like Sweden just because Musk
| refuses to do what every other single company does in the
| country
|
| No it's not, where are you getting your data from? Not to
| mention jumping to conclusions.
| belltaco wrote:
| > I'm guessing that Musk's unwillingness to work with the rules
| and norms in the markets Tesla is trying to enter, will be
| Tesla's downfall. Hopefully Tesla could somehow get rid of Musk
| as it seems like he is constantly holding Tesla back quite a
| bit.
|
| Like what? Source(s)?
| diggan wrote:
| > Like what? Source(s)?
|
| Added a link that gives you some additional context.
| belltaco wrote:
| > Added a link that gives you some additional context.
|
| Tesla sold 55% more cars in Nov 2023 compared to Nov 2022,
| and 9% more in December, so how is that Tesla's downfall?
|
| https://carup.se/trots-strejken-tesla-far-ut-fler-bilar-i-
| sv...
|
| https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-
| transportation/tesla-...
|
| Edit: Ran into the posting limit but the below is certainly
| false about Sweden, BYD is not selling the most cars there.
|
| > BYD are selling the most cars, and is the fastest growing
| in terms of sales in the country
| diggan wrote:
| BYD are selling the most cars, and is the fastest growing
| in terms of sales in the country. If you're aiming to be
| the company that produces the most vehicles in the world,
| it certainly sounds like it's not going in the right
| direction for them.
|
| - "BYD overtakes Tesla - sells the most electric cars" -
| https://www.mestmotor.se/automotorsport/artiklar/nyheter/
| 202...
|
| - "BYD beat Tesla - grew fastest in Sweden in 2023" -
| https://carup.se/byd-slog-tesla-okade-snabbast-i-
| sverige-202...
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| Isn't this more like a Huawei vs Apple thing? BYD sells
| more cars, Tesla makes more money (revenue and profit).
| It will be more interesting to see what happens as BYD
| moves more into model 3 territory.
| ripjaygn wrote:
| > BYD are selling the most cars, and is the fastest
| growing in terms of sales in the country
|
| Source? BYD aren't selling the most cars in Sweden.
|
| > BYD beat Tesla - grew fastest in Sweden in 2023
|
| Tesla sold 20K cars and BYD sold 3K in Sweden in 2023.
| How is that beating Tesla? They went from 1.1K cars to
| 3K, so had better percentage growth than Tesla
| diggan wrote:
| From one of the links in the comment you're replying to:
|
| > Det ar i det sista kvartalet 2023 som BYD kan stoltsera
| med battre siffror an Tesla. BYD rapporterar att de salt
| 526 409 elbilar fran och med oktober och fram till arets
| slut.
|
| > Teslas forsaljning a sin sida slog rekord och blev den
| hogsta for ett givet kvartal i tillverkarens historia.
| Resultatet blev 484 507 bilar. 41 902 farre an BYD.
|
| ---
|
| > It is in the last quarter of 2023 that BYD can boast
| better figures than Tesla. BYD reports that it sold
| 526,409 electric cars from October through the end of the
| year.
|
| > Tesla's sales, on the other hand, broke records and
| became the highest for a given quarter in the
| manufacturer's history. The result was 484,507 cars.
| 41,902 fewer than BYD.
| belltaco wrote:
| Just because it's in Swedish doesn't mean those are
| Sweden numbers :)
|
| Tesla outsold BYD in Sweden 6 times over.
| rad_gruchalski wrote:
| Well, the last example is unions in Sweden. I'm sure you can
| google that yourself?
| belltaco wrote:
| They edited that in after I asked for sources instead of
| putting it in a reply, and didn't mark it as a later edit.
| Can't google something that's not there. Not to mention
| google shows that Tesla sales increased in Sweden in Nov
| and December 2023 compared to the same months in 2022.
| diggan wrote:
| FWIW, the comment you're replying to was created before I
| made my edit. But no harm, no foul :)
| rad_gruchalski wrote:
| You asked for an example, I gave you the last example I
| am aware of: https://apnews.com/article/tesla-strike-
| union-sweden-labor-d....
| belltaco wrote:
| > About 130 mechanics at 10 Tesla garages across Sweden
| walked off the job on Oct. 27 over the company's refusal
| to sign a collective bargaining agreement
|
| This is false reporting, only 10 to 30 of the 130
| mechanics "walked off the job". The rest like their stock
| options and performance based pay hikes instead of the
| union table rates for all.
|
| > About 130 mechanics at 10 Tesla garages across Sweden
| walked off the job on Oct. 27 over the company's refusal
| to sign a collective bargaining agreement
|
| This is false reporting, only 10 to 30 of the 130
| mechanics "walked off the job". The rest like their stock
| options and performance based pay hikes instead of the
| union table rates for all. A lot of other news outlets
| picked up this false narrative.
|
| The number of striking Tesla mechanics is so low that IF
| Metall refuses to reveal how many are striking, and
| recently expelled some Tesla employees for not obeying
| their power play of striking.
|
| https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/tesla-teknikern-jobbar-
| trot...
|
| https://www.na.se/2023-11-16/tesla-ar-den-basta-
| arbetsgivare...
|
| A lot of other news outlets picked up this false
| narrative from AP and reporting that 130 employees are
| striking.
|
| The number of striking Tesla mechanics is so low that IF
| Metall refuses to reveal how many are striking, and
| recently expelled some Tesla employees for not obeying
| their power play of striking.
|
| Recently the NYT finally said only a few dozen are
| striking. Sad to see previously trustworthy news outlets
| like AP resorting to abject fake news to smear Tesla and
| spread a narrative. And it's spread and repeated on
| places like HN with no critical thinking or research.
| paradite wrote:
| Huh? Literally I've seen people on HN making the exact opposite
| arguments about companies bending over rules for certain
| markets only to lose the market eventually, hence considered a
| bad example.
| diggan wrote:
| We're all different people on here (mostly at least), so
| makes sense you see conflicting opinions :)
| orenlindsey wrote:
| You'll have to wait for more than 1 quarter before you make
| that call.
| diggan wrote:
| Not according to the graph from the article: https://archive.
| is/LOiYh/d4f25c5617954c2cd5c5e2de424334eacab...
| gzer0 wrote:
| And many people forget that BYD's number's are bolstered by the
| fact that they sell one of their models for less than 10,000
| euros. Of course they will have higher numbers at that price
| point.
| resolutebat wrote:
| And this is a problem because...?
|
| Tesla's building their cheap car too, but it will not launch
| until 2025 earliest.
| dylan604 wrote:
| What is "cheap" in terms of Tesla? From my understanding of
| issues with modern Teslas at full price, I'd hate to see
| issues when they start cutting corners to make "cheap".
| freitzkriesler2 wrote:
| Lies, damned lies, statistics, and anything posted out of
| China.
|
| Any stat out of China I take with a heavy grain of salt.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| > I'm guessing that Musk's unwillingness to work with the rules
| and norms in the markets Tesla is trying to enter, will be
| Tesla's downfall.
|
| Musk is perfectly willing to play by the rules and norms of the
| Chinese market. They opened up a factory there and everything,
| they are even selling lots of cars in the PRC while exporting
| some outside.
|
| I'm not sure how BYD would fair in Norway/Sweden; where unions
| are granted blanket monopolies on economic control. Is it even
| much of a player there yet?
| dmoy wrote:
| > I'm not sure how BYD would fair in Norway/Sweden
|
| Pretty sure BWD is the top selling EV manufacturer in Sweden,
| I recall reading that before the Tesla union shenanigans
| happened.
|
| No idea about Norway
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| Does BYD use a dealership model in sweden like they do in
| China? If so, they would just outsource all of those issues
| to local parties.
| eptcyka wrote:
| They have their own showrooms in the cities.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| So they are following Tesla's direct model?
| bryanlarsen wrote:
| Those news headlines are very misleading. Most Tesla's, all
| BYD's and certain Volvo models are imported from China on
| large ships so will sell thousands in one month and
| essentially zero in others. So while the BYD Atto 3 was the
| best-selling car in a couple of the months of 2023, for
| annual sales it is well behind the Tesla Y and Volvo XC40.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-
| transportation/tesla-...
| moogly wrote:
| Luckily, all this information is publicly available and
| searchable, and you will find that it is Tesla.
|
| https://www.car.info/en-
| se/stats?from=2023-02&to=2024-01&vd=...
| chaosprint wrote:
| It's not even close to Tesla here in Norway. Mostly because
| the price is not as competitive as they are in China and
| the system difference is another issue. Plus, the
| psychology.
| Briq7 wrote:
| Top 20 new cars sales in Norway for 2023
|
| Tesla Model Y: 23.088 cars (18,2 percent) Volkswagen ID.4:
| 6614 cars (5,2 percent) Skoda Enyaq: 5740 cars (4,5
| percent) Toyota bZ4X: 5395 cars (4,2 percent) Volvo XC40:
| 5025 cars (4,0 percent) Ford Mustang Mach-E: 3792 cars (3,0
| percent) Toyota Yaris: 3582 cars (2,8 percent) Toyota RAV4:
| 3457 cars (2,7 percent) Volkswagen ID.3: 3141 cars (2,5
| percent) Hyundai Kona: 2991 cars (2,4 percent) Audi Q4
| e-tron: 2688 cars (2,1 percent) Nissan Ariya: 2606 cars
| (2,1 percent) Nissan Leaf: 2471 cars (1,9 percent) BMW iX1:
| 2415 cars (1,9 percent) Tesla Model 3: 2083 cars (1,6
| percent) Toyota Corolla: 1911 cars (1,5 percent) Polestar
| 2: 1832 cars (1,4 percent) BMW i4: 1782 cars (1,4 percent)
| MG4: 1622 cars (1,3 percent) Audi Q8 e-tron: 1602 cars (1,3
| percent)
| piva00 wrote:
| > I'm not sure how BYD would fair in Norway/Sweden; where
| unions are granted blanket monopolies on economic control. Is
| it even much of a player there yet?
|
| Unions don't have blanket monopolies on economic control,
| that's absolute bullshit...
|
| I see quite a few BYDs here in Sweden. My girlfriend even got
| one as a rental some 3-6 months ago.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| They were able to stop Tesla from sending vehicle
| registrations in the mail. That is very powerful control of
| economy, if not speech.
| piva00 wrote:
| They have power, it's different than "control".
|
| The post workers union only decided on taking such action
| due to Tesla bringing scabs to break the strike of their
| own workers, that's such a huge no-no in the free market
| of labour in Sweden that workers from other sections of
| the economy decided to join on sympathy strikes.
|
| I suggest you to educate yourself on how the labour
| market works here in Sweden, how government interference
| in it is extremely low, and with that decisions around
| labour come mostly through agreements between employees
| and employers; it's a core tenet of all labour
| relationship over here and Tesla actively worked to break
| it. If Tesla was actively acting to break a part of the
| social contract of your nation, would you bend over and
| say it's free speech?
|
| Don't look at other countries with your local eyes, it's
| absurdly ignorant, your rules are not my rules, learn
| about our rules to be able to have an informed opinion.
| JDDunn9 wrote:
| Electric vehicles are more heavily subsidized in China than
| America. 22% of new car sales in China are electric vs 1% in
| America. China also has a lot of tariffs and regulations
| preventing foreign competition.
| adventured wrote:
| > 22% of new car sales in China are electric vs 1% in America
|
| Where are you getting 1% from? That's off by a drastic
| amount.
|
| "EV sales climb and are on track to be 9% of US new car
| purchases in 2023"
|
| "U.S. sales of hybrid, plug-in hybrid and battery-electric
| vehicles reached 17.7% of new light-duty vehicle sales in the
| third quarter"
|
| https://www.utilitydive.com/news/electric-vehicles-EVs-
| new-c...
|
| https://apnews.com/article/automakers-electric-vehicles-
| us-c...
| onetom wrote:
| I would be cautious believing these stats... How much of those
| sales are real ones?
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SEfwoqKRU8
|
| Their hybrid cars has serious problems, including catching fire
| on their own. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXrsmYQvK8E
|
| It's not like Tesla didn't have issues, but not so serious and
| numerous ones.
| starbase wrote:
| Important detail: BYD's "EV" sales numbers include gasoline-
| electric hybrids.
| moogly wrote:
| Not anymore. That was the thing the last time this was
| (erroneously) reported.
| starbase wrote:
| incorrect. BYD sold 1,574,822 battery electric vehicles in
| 2023. Tesla sold 1,808,581
|
| https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2024/0101
| /...
|
| https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/01/tesla-
| sold-1-8-million-...
| moogly wrote:
| Over the year yes, but BYD outsold Tesla in Q4 (pure
| BEV). That's what's been doing the news rounds this week.
| rossjudson wrote:
| Vehicles sold by price and region is useful. Total # of
| vehicles sold is not. How many sold inside/outside of China? To
| put it gently, EV sales in China have had an additional boost
| from the government (which, btw, I think is good for the
| planet).
|
| The newer BYD vehicles are more comparable to Tesla (and other
| manufacturers), but there's a long, long way to go before they
| prove themselves more than a manufacturer of cheap cars.
|
| Tesla has never been a manufacturer of cheap cars. More
| recently, it has become a manufacturer of good ones.
|
| The fundamentally simpler nature of EVs means they're rolling
| software platforms, and the software matters a great deal.
| Tesla has gotten good at the software side of the equation, and
| are arguably ahead of pretty much everything else.
| christkv wrote:
| I would not trust any sales numbers from the Chinese internal
| market as they have a long history of faking them for various
| reasons. This includes doing things like registering the car
| (counting as sale) and then just parking them on a lot.
|
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevetengler/2023/07/19/the-
| thr...
| osigurdson wrote:
| What would new leadership really do? Make a T-150?
| jbm wrote:
| Musk Derangement Syndrome on the first comment about a
| different car company making a very interesting product. I also
| saw this in comments in articles about Boeing and Toyota this
| week.
|
| Is there a browser mod to hide comments like this? Bonus points
| if it hides the snide demoralization-style comments that have
| started infesting HN too ("Oh you are a software engineer? Let
| me tell you why you are ignorant without knowing anything about
| you")
| madaxe_again wrote:
| Dare I ask why an EV would need a snorkel? Air cooling?
| joshuanapoli wrote:
| It also has a gasoline engine.
| alamortsubite wrote:
| Which the article says shuts down immediately when the
| vehicle starts floating. So maybe it mostly serves as the
| same reverse status symbol as snorkels on other SUV.
| sangnoir wrote:
| The vehicle also wades in water up to 1000mm (1400mm when
| lifted), so that snorkel may be useful under those
| conditions and not when floating.
| osti wrote:
| It can also do 360 degree self centered turn, which should be
| useful. No more 3 point turns!
|
| Given the flexibility of installing the motors, I've always
| wondered why electric cars still can't move in a parallel way.
| That should be very handy when parallel parking.
| reliablereason wrote:
| > handy when parallel parking.
|
| If you love switching tires.
| pclmulqdq wrote:
| This is a feature that should only be used for off-roading.
| Off roads, it is extremely useful to be able to make small-
| radius turns.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| A 4 ton thing doing this on the trails I go on would
| destroy them.
|
| I hope people don't actually do it.
| pclmulqdq wrote:
| In my past times off-roading, trails and dirt roads have
| usually been very generous with places to turn. Not so
| much when you are off a trail or a road.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| Exactly, and unless you are on private property or BLM
| land you are also generally not supposed to be driving
| off the trails or roads. So there isn't much use for this
| other than on private property or on BLM land.
| bink wrote:
| Rivian advertised this feature as well but disabled it, for
| obvious reasons.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| Obvious reason is immediate tire wear?
| osti wrote:
| I think I wasn't being clear, the wheels basically have to
| rotate perpendicularly to the cars body, so there wouldn't
| be any extra tire wear.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| What? If left wheels are in reverse and right wheels in
| forward then the treads are wearing sideways against the
| rotation!
| gambiting wrote:
| What's the reason? It's not obvious to me at all, sorry.
| jandrese wrote:
| It shreds your tires.
| gambiting wrote:
| ...why? Doesn't it do it by using 4 wheel steer?
| starbase wrote:
| nope. Rivian spins the left wheels forward and the right
| wheels backwards, or vice versa
| gambiting wrote:
| Oh. Yeah that's not great.
| raisedbyninjas wrote:
| Hyundai is experimenting with this.
| moffkalast wrote:
| Presumably because the typical EV is already priced
| uncompetitively enough without two extra rear wheel steering
| servos that would allow for it.
| resolutebat wrote:
| It can only do the 360 deg turn _while floating_ , which rather
| limits its utility.
| alamortsubite wrote:
| At the end of the article there's an embedded video showing
| the vehicle doing a tank turn on pavers. The tire
| manufacturers will love it.
| tetris11 wrote:
| Climate change will cause tons of flooding. I wont be surprised
| at the people who jump at a car like this.
| belter wrote:
| Meaning...You will avoid the hoards of hungry zombies, but
| still make it on time for golf?
| bink wrote:
| Does it come with a propeller and rudder? What's the point of
| floating if you have no control over where you end up?
| yial wrote:
| It sounds like it uses the wheels and tires to provide slight
| control and speed.
| raisedbyninjas wrote:
| So if there is any wind at all, your luxury SUV is just
| going to get blown around wherever the wind blows. I've
| personally never been to a lake with no wind. Maybe it's
| useful foolishly ford a washed washed out road and get
| swept down-river.
| lambdasquirrel wrote:
| I wouldn't say it's that bad. 3km/hr is roughly the speed
| of a rec kayak, and people paddle those. But of course,
| it might create a false sense of security because weather
| that'd cause flooding...
| AnarchismIsCool wrote:
| It has four wheel motors so theoretically it can steer to
| some degree in still water. Turing the wheels creates some
| force from water resistance.
| roughly wrote:
| It's often better than sinking.
|
| They do say it can propel itself at 3km/hr and also turn in
| the water by spinning the wheels.
| lambdasquirrel wrote:
| 3km / hr does not get you very far if you're paddling
| against a current. I hope that no one abuses the feature or
| use it to do the dumb things people often do when they see
| a flooded road.
| hgomersall wrote:
| Cue idiots that think they can drive across a river in spate
| because they can float.
| lambdasquirrel wrote:
| I'd also worry about how well the car's bottom deals with
| underwater obstructions. And of course that people who own
| this car would engage in the same sort of shenanigans that we
| see with Tesla Autopilot.
|
| The car's interior is a welcome bit of originality compared
| to the styling in the usual high-end offerings.
| api wrote:
| I see China coming for the US auto industry, and fast.
|
| It's 100% the fault of our industry for sitting around doing
| nothing but repackaging old technology in overpriced chonker
| trucks and trying to obstruct the EV transition with
| disinformation. All they want to do is sell the same mediocre gas
| guzzler forever.
|
| Innovators' dilemma strikes again.
|
| Of course I guess Japan decimated US auto last time. It was kinda
| the same deal. US companies just wanted to sell super heavy low
| tech V8 gas guzzlers like the Ford LTD. Japan came with reliable
| efficient cars and ate out the market.
|
| I'm sure they'll get more bailouts.
| bushbaba wrote:
| Japanese car makers have huge U.S. presence with U.S.
| engineering employees. SuspectD will be asked to do the same.
| slim wrote:
| I see China coming for the US auto industry, and fast.
|
| that would be the case if US was a free market. Any Chinese
| product will be banned if it becomes too successful
| rgmerk wrote:
| The USA has effectively excluded Chinese cars from its home
| market.
|
| In Europe and Asia the Chinese makers are rapidly increasing
| market share, to the considerable chagrin of other
| manufacturers.
| speedgoose wrote:
| 4 tons as an hybrid with only 50kWh of battery. You would need a
| truck driving license in Europe, and a speed limit of 80km/h.
| VBprogrammer wrote:
| Yeah, I doubt we'll ever see on in the UK because of licensing
| issues.
|
| That said, it's also range extended so 50kWh is ample. I would
| hazard a guess it would do about 100 miles on battery alone.
| gambiting wrote:
| It literally says in the article - the EV only range is
| 180km(about 110 miles), the fuel tank is 75 litres, giving it
| a combined range of 1000km(600 miles).
|
| Tbh that's an awful combined range and it shows how heavy and
| inefficient the car is. My Volvo XC60 PHEV only has about
| 50km EV-only range, but combined with its 75 litre tank it
| can easily do 1000km, no problem.
| manmal wrote:
| Both can do 1k km on 75l, so apart from the Volvo's smaller
| battery, where's the difference for the end user? I think
| it's a waste of materials to build such cars, but given the
| weight the consumption seems impressive.
| gambiting wrote:
| Both cars are plug in hybrids - you need to charge them
| externally to get the most out of them. BYD needs
| literally 5x the electricity of the Volvo(50kWh Vs 10kWh)
| for the same range, so the owner is definitely going to
| notice it on their energy bill.
| buran77 wrote:
| > BYD needs literally 5x the electricity of the
| Volvo(50kWh Vs 10kWh) for the same range
|
| Which "same range"? Did you just calculate electric
| efficiency using the total range including gasoline?
| Because then your PHEV needs an infinite times the
| electricity of a car driving on gasoline alone.
|
| If anything on paper the U8 is 10% more efficient (Volvo
| says 50km from the 15kWh battery, not 10kWh). With
| gasoline factored in you have two vehicles with equal
| 1000km range despite the U8 being significantly heavier.
|
| You can argue that the CLTC is not nearly as accurate as
| the WLTP and you'd be right but you still need to check
| your math and/or logic above.
| Faaak wrote:
| Yeah, as an EU, this truc is ridiculously heavy and big. Well
| most cars produced nowadays are too.. :(
| m3kw9 wrote:
| This is a level above companies marking suvs as off-road
| vehicles, now can float on water 30min before sinking.
| moffkalast wrote:
| I'm really puzzled by the 30 min part, things either seal or
| they don't. I wonder if it's a genuine limitation or just
| another one of those standards where devices are tested for 1
| hour at 1 meter depth and that's what they advertise.
| huytersd wrote:
| They have those on watches too. Water proof for 1 hour at
| 200m or whatever.
| johnhenry wrote:
| Does it just stink after 30 minutes?
| belter wrote:
| Not if it's Perrier water.
| belter wrote:
| Or maybe you were thinking about something else?
|
| https://youtu.be/7C-vYY3SBDE
| unglaublich wrote:
| I'm afraid of the hellscape of even more of these tanks on the
| road, and even on water now.
| iancmceachern wrote:
| Yes, this is not environmentally friendly
| boudin wrote:
| And not human friendly neither, don't want to be involved in
| an accident with such a car
| _fw wrote:
| This looks a great deal like the Defender that Land Rover
| introduced in 2018.
| avar wrote:
| A car that floats ... but only with a mandatory fully open
| sunroof ... in a part of the world that gets typhoons.
|
| Is the 30 minute time limitation an estimate on how long it'll
| take to fill it up in the rain with an open sunroof?
| resolutebat wrote:
| The floating is meant to be an emergency only feature that
| requires a dealer inspection afterwards every time it's
| activated.
| sourcecodeplz wrote:
| Daaamn.
| stephenr wrote:
| I'm sure it's because of the weight, but only 1000km range from
| the batteries *and* a 75L fuel tank is kind of shit.
| Zetobal wrote:
| The first time I have seen AI generated images being used by a
| big brand like BYD. The cars are still CGI but the backgrounds
| are AI generated.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I just assumed it was a really _really_ big car when compared
| to a horse. It must provide ample head room for a human if that
| 's the ratio. I guess it could be a Shetland pony or something
| if I were to be generous, but of course it's just bad AI.
|
| https://carnewschina.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/04-Yangw...
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| This kind of car pretty important for China. They are still way
| behind on drainage in major cities, it isn't uncommon to see
| under road passes flooded during heavy spring rains. Japan would
| have the same problem, but they've sunk billions into drainage,
| the Tokyo drainage system is a world wonder at this point.
| charles_f wrote:
| I'm wondering how many of these $150k+ effectively ever hit even
| a dirt road. Notwithstanding how heavy it is.
| rgmerk wrote:
| The same proportion of G-class Benzes, Range Rovers and Lexus
| LXes that go off-road.
| charles_f wrote:
| Well these are included, I was referring to the general
| $150k+ off-road looking tank category.
| practice9 wrote:
| That car's exterior is uglier than Cybertruck
| Animats wrote:
| Well, why not? There's a market for big, overpriced barge trucks.
| femto wrote:
| Fun fact: The original VW beetle could do this for half an hour
| or so [1]. There was a (1960s?) article in "Modern Motor",
| whereby someone tested it and found that there was at least some
| control, as the tyres provided enough paddle action to move
| forward and the front wheels acted as rudders.
|
| Their floating inspired some to modify beetles to really make
| them amphibious [2,3].
|
| Even if it officially floats, I wouldn't like to go up against a
| flooded river in a 4WD [4]. In this example, the wheels snagged
| and flipped the car.
|
| [1] https://www.arnoldclark.com/newsroom/527-why-do-
| volkswagen-b...
|
| [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQiS4paC_sk
|
| [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rRwzPz6rzs
|
| [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZNkgixXl7U
| drivingmenuts wrote:
| Cool car idea, but I wish someone would sit down with them to
| come up with a new model name. "YangWang" doesn't sound like
| something I'd want to tall people I own.
|
| If I could afford one, that is.
| ornornor wrote:
| > the comprehensive range with a full battery and 75-liter fuel
| tank is 1000 km.
|
| > 3,950 kg
|
| > 5 seats
|
| That's just ridiculous. And did anyone really need a floating car
| in emergencies? How often are people actually in that situation?
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(page generated 2024-01-06 23:02 UTC)