[HN Gopher] Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classr...
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Inattentive Behavior in Boys with ADHD During Classroom Instruction
[pdf]
Author : doener
Score : 17 points
Date : 2024-01-06 10:25 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (psy.fsu.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (psy.fsu.edu)
| austin-cheney wrote:
| ADHD is a neurological impairment, less developed hardware. Less
| severe ADHD can be self managed and possibly even become a
| strength through learned self-discipline.
|
| People tend to think of ADHD as a focus issue. It's more of a
| memory issue with corresponding compensation behaviors. Extreme
| ADHD is like watching the movie Memento, except the focal span is
| condensed from 5 minutes down to about 12-25 seconds and only
| about a third of the memories are lost. Imagine pouring a glass
| of milk and half way through you have forgotten you are in the
| middle of task until there is a mess. The most obvious indicator
| is misplacing things several times a day. Other indicators
| include strange repeated behaviors to compensate for memory loss
| like hiding things in weird locations so you can find them later
| only to have forgotten that you have hidden things and then run
| out of those things and not know where they are.
| adynaton wrote:
| Hello. Do you have any resources about this? I have memory
| issues similar to the ones you described.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| I have just learned from observation, speaking with
| counselors, and watching videos online. I have a family
| member with severe ADHD.
|
| You might want to visit with a doctor to be evaluated for
| ADHD. There are medications that help, but they differ by
| person and medication with side effects.
| cncovyvysi wrote:
| Read driven to distraction
| ZunarJ5 wrote:
| An excellent, easy to digest lay writeup:
| https://mashable.com/article/what-is-adhd-myths-stigma/.
|
| Also, check out this channel, "How to ADHD." Here is her
| playlist on 'What is ADHD?' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x
| MWtGozn5jU&list=PLvq9Tp5JZ8...
|
| This is my biggest hindrance, illustrated: https://adhd-
| alien.tumblr.com/post/186747323969/my-totally-u...
| aatd86 wrote:
| Can also be malfunctioning hardware. Can even be externally
| induced. Transient bouts of attention deficit with perfectly
| normal MRI would indicate that something else is happening.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| An MRI cannot diagnose ADHD in an individual. MRI's can see
| trends and variations in brains of large populations. For
| example, an MRI of 1,000 people with ADHD might show a
| different sized <insert brain parts> compared to 1,000 people
| without ADHD.
|
| However, a single person could have the same size <insert
| brain parts> as the average of 1,000 ADHD people and still
| not have ADHD, and a person could not have a significantly
| different sized <insert brain parts> and have ADHD.
|
| To date, there is not a single biological marker nor
| empirical test that can be used to diagnose ADHD beyond a
| reasonable doubt.
| lazide wrote:
| In my experience, it is as often a specific set of genetic
| traits exposed to a specific set of narcissistic abuse and
| environmental stressors.
|
| It's why it tends to show up in early childhood, and 'get
| better' as they get older and learn how to defend themselves
| and avoid the destructive people and environments that are
| gaslighting them into doing things that are decompensating for
| them (actually, for everyone - which is why normal people are
| often not in those environments). Or not, if they aren't
| allowed to leave.
|
| It's also why the medication 'stops working' sometimes - the
| problem folks in the environment ramp up the abuse until the
| target is back in the confused/can't remember what is going on
| state where they can be controlled.
|
| When in an actually good environment, and directed in a way
| that they can/will do the things they need to do to take care
| of themselves appropriately, all of the memory issues,
| emotional regulation issues, etc. become quite manageable or
| even disappear. There is often a lot of PTSD though, which
| requires special help.
|
| The challenge is that when abuse and destruction is present
| (but 'not allowed to be seen') from an early age, people
| develop protective blind spots for it.
|
| It's normal and 'not abuse', near as they can tell. And
| narcissistic abuse is all about not being seen - at least by
| anyone who can or will do anything about it.
|
| And if it's a parent doing it, seeing it requires rejecting a
| caregiver and role model - not an easy or often safe thing to
| do.
|
| Depending on how long it was ongoing though, it could be years
| or decades to recover.
| NoZebra120vClip wrote:
| I concur completely with all lazide has written, and they'd
| get two upvotes if I had them.
|
| Abuse and neglect in the home is often the genesis of
| childhood "mental illness" but the industry can do jack-all
| about the home life of children.
|
| ADHD, bipolar, and PTSD are clusters of disparate symptoms,
| different with every child. They are chiefly the symptoms
| which annoy and inconvenience parents, caregivers, school
| teachers and administrators. Therefore, the drugging of
| children is oriented toward suppressing and/or eliminating
| these annoyances so that the people in authority can go about
| their business without having said authority challenged by
| uppity children who act out.
|
| My niece was not yet in 8th grade before the Catholic school
| proposed to drug her as well, and I know full well what sorts
| of domestic troubles she had undergone throughout her short
| life. I pity the children who endure such things but can't
| escape them. What are we going to do, break up 60% of
| families because their parents suck and they are permanently
| damaging all their offspring?
|
| It's tragic, and it's left me with the prospect of lifelong
| therapy to become normal, but there is healing and hope, and
| people do get better, despite the setbacks and damage caused
| by drugs, clinics, and hospitalization.
| lazide wrote:
| Thank you for adding your experience. I'd also give it two
| upvotes if I could.
|
| One thing I would like to add - the medication can be the
| least bad option, _if_ or _when_ the situation is not
| actually addressable in a useful way otherwise.
|
| When someone has bad pain, unless it meaningfully is
| helping them to have it, it's cruel to not give them pain
| medication. It just makes everything else harder.
|
| Same for ADHD meds.
|
| Untreated ADHD _is_ worse than treated ADHD in every
| significant metric, at least for any given moment, as
| fighting an already lost battle against circumstances
| outside of your control isn't going to be better than
| finding a way to somehow tolerate or cope with them.
|
| The challenge comes when the circumstances _can_ actually
| be addressed in some other way that can actually make
| things better - leaving, fighting back (successfully!),
| having an authority figure with the actual strength and
| resources to actually help instead of making it worse,
| counter manipulating /lying, finding a way to take
| ownership of the shit and somehow make it work, etc.
|
| Which, knowing the actual right course of action is nearly
| impossible for the person being victimized, and is rarely
| in the list of options being considered by said authority
| figure when it's a kid involved.
|
| Without that, the medication just leaves someone stuck in a
| broken situation, albeit better functioning. Which is
| better than being stuck and not! But less than ideal.
|
| ADHD treatment has so much better long term outcomes when
| it's medication + therapy, rather than either just on its
| own, and I think that is why.
|
| The medication can give someone the strength (chemical or
| not, it still helps) to actually do the other work and see
| it through. Even when it's really hard and scary.
| graemep wrote:
| > ADHD is a neurological impairment, less developed hardware.
|
| Has that been established? This says causes are uncertain:
| https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/attention-deficit-hyperactivit...
| austin-cheney wrote:
| The causes are multiple and not clearly established, but it
| is clearly neurological (hardware) and not a personality
| defect. This is established through research into the brain
| and interactions with certain medications. Some examples of
| hardware disruption include extremely low production of
| neurotransmitters and extremely few neurotransmitter
| receivers.
| acchow wrote:
| ADHD is not a memory issue. The memory issues are secondary.
|
| Ever seen someone with ADHD fixated on something? Memory is not
| a problem within that topic.
| gtvwill wrote:
| ^^^ mate I can tell you a million facts about a million
| things as I've probably hyperfixated on something related to
| whatever your interested in at some point over the last 20
| years.
|
| But I still can't remember where I put my wallet, phone and
| keys.
| k8svet wrote:
| I say this with love, not condemnation. You have to start
| caring. Like actually caring. Or develop habits and
| discipline.
|
| I was this person. I watched my dad be the person all his
| life, watching my mom both enable and resent him for it.
| Then I realize what a nuisance he was to those around him,
| and how embarrassing it was that he seemingly can't take
| care of himself.
|
| Now I have a cross body "man-purse", I've traveled half a
| dozen countries in a year and haven't lost a single thing.
| My wallet, my keys, my yubikey, my sunglasses, my backup
| meds, they have exactly one place they're allowed to be,
| and they're always there when I go to grab them.
| bsdz wrote:
| I think research shows the most important genes are involved in
| producing dopamine. Two of the genes that have been found to be
| implicated most commonly are DAT1 and DRD4, although others are
| being discovered all the time.
|
| This means that brain signals are not carried correctly, and
| the signals may be carried to the wrong part of the brain.
| This, in part, leads to the well known symptoms of ADHD afaik.
|
| So memory definitely a secondary issue.
| austin-cheney wrote:
| Dopamine is certainly a factor, but low serotonin is at
| greater distinction. The dopamine cycle exists to regulate
| task completion and is associated with reward stimulus.
| Serotonin is associated with mood regulation. In manically
| depressed persons and persons with advanced ADHD serotonin
| production is extremely low compared to normal. The primary
| compensating behavior then is seeking external mood
| stimulators. For the person in my family with ADHD their drug
| of choice is anything with large amounts of red dye 40.
|
| Although persons with ADHD have lesser DRD2 and possibly
| lesser DRD4 receptors using prescribed medication to raise
| serotonin production reduces the urge to hyper stimulate and
| thus drives behavior towards a more normal homeostasis, which
| then also solves for the forgetfulness.
| nickfromseattle wrote:
| This sounds like me. Poor working / short term memory made
| school (memorizing facts) a nightmare.
|
| Do you have more resources that educate about ADHD from this
| perspective?
| austin-cheney wrote:
| There is a world of difference between slow study and a
| severe brain impairment that blocks the ability to function
| normally in the world. For example perhaps there is a minor
| focus or motivation issue where you would rather be doing
| something else and so find the studying less of a priority. A
| person with severe ADHD may forget what they were doing while
| they are actively engaged doing it. Imagine driving a car and
| your mind drifts and you begin to focus on something at the
| side of the road now completely unaware of what is in front
| of you as you continue driving forward without reservation. A
| person who struggles to study, on the otherwise, does not
| suddenly become unaware they are holding an open book in
| front of their face.
|
| If you are concerned that you might have ADHD I recommend an
| evaluation by general physician.
| aimonster2 wrote:
| FSIQ was a bad way of identifying the cohort. They should break
| it up into GAI, WMI, and PSI instead since the key indications of
| cognitive capacity are in GAI and the WMI and PSI just show the
| area of deficit. I.E. a 104 FSIQ may be the same as a 110 FSIQ
| for neurotypical since the WMI and PSI are probably 1/2 to 1
| standard deviation below the mean for the ADHD cohort. I know
| several gifted students with an FSIQ of around 110, so that also
| introduces the issue of gifted behaviors which can also present
| as inattentiveness. FSIQ 110, GAI >> 130, WMI and PSI below 85.
| This assumes they used something like WISC IV. Also, ignoring PSI
| and focussing on WMI kind of misses half the issue. It all comes
| down to executive function loading.
| hirvi74 wrote:
| What you are describing is similar to how I was diagnosed.
|
| I took the WAIS-IV and was told that I do not "technically"
| have an IQ since I have ADHD and the tests are not designed nor
| calibrated to measure intelligence in populations other than
| neurotypicals. Doesn't mean I cannot be given a score, just
| that it's not technically "accurate."
|
| I am quite dubious of IQ testing to begin with. But for the
| sake of adding to your comment, I had 2.5 standard deviations
| between some of my scores. I was significantly stronger in my
| VCI and PRI than my WMI and PSI.
| LargeTomato wrote:
| I have ADHD but growing up we didn't know that. I threw a lot of
| tantrums and was yelled at until I cried almost every day. I was
| grounded for months on end, which is now considered child abuse.
| In my house yelling was the norm.
|
| My mom decided I must have bipolar disorder just like my
| grandmother. At age 10 I was put on psychiatric drugs and that
| persisted for over 20 years. Any time I exhibited any intense
| emotion I would get yelled at and then it would probably trigger
| a fight.
|
| As an adult I began to describe my experiences in my own words
| and doctors quickly undiagnosed me. 2 decades of doctors
| appointments, drugs, emotional abuse, dismissal, confusion.
|
| There is no moral to this story.
| k8svet wrote:
| I'm sorry. I'd have a hard time not being angry if I were you.
| Similar thing happened with my ex. Years of anti-psychotics for
| absolutely no fking reason. His new doc quickly took him off,
| and he simply got healthier, never an issue. Such a shame.
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