[HN Gopher] NetSurf Web Browser
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       NetSurf Web Browser
        
       Author : jszymborski
       Score  : 129 points
       Date   : 2024-01-04 06:52 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.netsurf-browser.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.netsurf-browser.org)
        
       | tuananh wrote:
       | I tried it just now and it renders very poorly some common sites
       | like facebook (bad rendering) or twitter (not supported at all)
       | 
       | docs links are mostly broken 404
       | 
       | https://www.netsurf-browser.org/documentation/progress#Gener...
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | It doesn't support JS, head to https://m.facebook.com maybe. On
         | Twitter, they used to have a JSless page, but now it's defunct.
        
           | ainar-g wrote:
           | It does have optional support for JS thru Duktape[1] Engine,
           | if I recall correctly, but that engine doesn't support a lot
           | of modern JS stuff, mostly being limited to ECMAScript 5.
           | 
           | [1]: https://duktape.org/
        
           | asystole wrote:
           | It's a cool historic artifact, but I'd argue a browser
           | without JS support these days is like a text editor without
           | syntax highlighting.
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | If the web needs JS to work even to display non-dynamic
             | content, then the web it's utterly broken.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | A good number of sites are utterly broken.
               | 
               | I remember being able to browse normal sites with
               | JavaScript disabled as late as 2010, but since then I've
               | had to downgrade to Firefox+noscript.
        
             | bufio wrote:
             | I can't see the downsides to a lack of JS or syntax
             | highlighting.
        
             | omaranto wrote:
             | Most of the websites I interact with are either very
             | interactive web apps which have no hope of working without
             | JavaScript or are basically made up of text documents I
             | want to read. It is shocking how much the document-style
             | websites improve if you browse them _without_ JavaScript.
             | People have really put a lot of crap on top of what is
             | basically just a text file.
        
             | bovermyer wrote:
             | Refreshingly lightweight?
        
             | tenebrisalietum wrote:
             | or, it's like a document reader with a far lower amount and
             | chance of security issues.
        
           | password4321 wrote:
           | https://mbasic.facebook.com
        
       | iamevn wrote:
       | It's really interesting to run a web browser in a framebuffer
       | without any sort of display manager running [1].
       | 
       | [1]: https://ci.netsurf-browser.org/jenkins/job/docs-
       | netsurf/doxy...
        
         | arghwhat wrote:
         | Note that fbdev use deprecated because it's a really bad and
         | broken kernel API.
         | 
         | One can use KMS directly, but at that point you're just
         | implementing all the logic of a display server and might as
         | well just use a small kiosk-style Wayland display server
         | instead.
        
           | ranger_danger wrote:
           | how is it broken?
        
             | direwolf20 wrote:
             | The Xorg fbdev driver is deprecated. If you're not Xorg but
             | you want to easily put some pixels on the screen, fbdev is
             | still for you.
             | 
             | The Linux fbdev subsystem is deprecated, but the fb devices
             | will be emulated with DRM because they are useful.
        
               | ranger_danger wrote:
               | is there an easy way to get a framebuffer with DRM
               | without using fbdev?
        
           | dmitrygr wrote:
           | That comment assumes that nothing but Linux exists. I've
           | ported netsurf to very very non-Linux environments that just
           | had a framebuffer. So no "just use Wayland" is not the
           | answer. (Ever)
        
         | kristopolous wrote:
         | arachne did this as well back in the day
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachne_(web_browser)
         | 
         | It could run in CGA, really
        
       | nolist_policy wrote:
       | I want to like NetSurf but the UI and keybindings are so
       | different from every other browser.
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | One of the few non-webkit/blink/gecko open source browsers.
       | 
       | Dillo, Links, Ladybird, AWeb are the other ones I am aware of.
        
         | doener wrote:
         | I think NetSurf is the most popular browser in the small
         | community that still uses Amiga computers.
         | 
         | https://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/amiga/
        
           | snvzz wrote:
           | aweb and ibrowse are definitely more popular still.
           | 
           | aweb works on every Amiga and is open-source, but bad support
           | for current www, and quite unmaintained.
           | 
           | ibrowse requires 68020, is reasonably fast but sadly
           | proprietary. Better support for current www, but not great.
           | 
           | netsurf has probably the best support, but is the slowest,
           | needs a lot of RAM and crashes a lot in my experience. It is
           | probably much better with RTG, which I do not have.
           | 
           | Most of the time I'll just use AmiGemini. It is very fast and
           | supports Gopher/Spartan/Finger besides the Gemini I find
           | horribly designed and personally do not care about.
           | 
           | (mainly use my A1200, 68030 @ 50)
        
         | cmiller1 wrote:
         | While there has been some backporting of features TO Gecko from
         | it, Servo is technically an open-source non-webkit/blink/gecko
         | browser engine.
        
         | password4321 wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38847613 _Show HN:
         | Resurrecting the Dillo browser_ (3 days ago)
        
       | keepamovin wrote:
       | I'm viewing YC HN now from NetSurf. It's cool. I really like it!
       | :)
        
       | factormeta wrote:
       | thanks for mention it. For people who don't like using js heavy
       | site, this is a very good way to just browse lite document base
       | (not SPA) web site. No Brave or Ad blocker needed. And it is one
       | of few browser will display google in html old format.
        
       | not_your_vase wrote:
       | I don't see adblock being mentioned on the website. I know that
       | it's a convenience feature, and at home my PiHole takes care of
       | it, but everywhere else nowadays adblocking is more important
       | than HTML standard-compliance. (Compliance is pointless, is ads
       | make the content inaccessible)
        
         | pwdisswordfishc wrote:
         | There's no point in blocking ads in no ad scripts can run in
         | the first place.
        
       | wmlive wrote:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38234705 about netsurf's
       | GNUstep variant named websurf.
        
       | Yhippa wrote:
       | Are there any good non-boated web browsers that are open sourced
       | for macOS? With binaries available?
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | Probably nothing you haven't heard of unless you'd be happy
         | compiling and using an incomplete "project" browser, like
         | Ladybird. The list with pre-built binaries includes: Mozilla
         | Firefox (or Waterfox), Google Chromium (or Brave), and Apple
         | WebKit via Safari (so, open source engine, closed-source
         | chrome) or other browsers that use WebKit (e.g. DuckDuckGo's
         | Orion).
        
           | pedrogpimenta wrote:
           | Did you mean Kagi's Orion?
        
             | CharlesW wrote:
             | Thank you! Yes, I was confused -- DDG's browser is
             | "DuckDuckGo for Mac", and also uses WebKit.
        
         | thisislife2 wrote:
         | PaleMoon (http://www.palemoon.org/) is a pretty decent and
         | actively maintained browser with binaries available for
         | multiple platform including macOS. It looks pretty nice with a
         | MacOS theme (https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/xmoon/) too.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | Safari's rendering engine is open source, but the UI isn't.
         | 
         | https://www.webkit.org
        
       | bee_rider wrote:
       | Not having JavaScript blocks off a huge attack vector, which is
       | great, but how's the track record of smaller browsers like this
       | on stuff like image rendering attacks? ie,
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37478403
       | 
       | I'd love to switch away from the over-complicated internet, but
       | this sort of worry keeps me on Firefox+javascript blocker.
        
         | flashback2199 wrote:
         | It seems to have a JS engine. It also mentions "improvements to
         | JavaScript handling" for 3.9. I guess it's disabled by default
         | though.
        
           | G3rn0ti wrote:
           | That would be great news. Last time I checked it did not come
           | with JS support.
        
           | nateb2022 wrote:
           | Indeed, it uses the Duktape engine: https://duktape.org/
        
         | nequo wrote:
         | One thing you can do is sandbox your browser with AppArmor
         | and/or Firejail to limit the fallout.
        
       | Rapzid wrote:
       | > Why Choose NetSurf
       | 
       | It's not malware, we promise.
        
         | nurettin wrote:
         | That's not FUD, I swear.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-06 23:01 UTC)