[HN Gopher] Apple Rejects the Hey Calendar from Their App Store
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Apple Rejects the Hey Calendar from Their App Store
Author : andrewbarba
Score : 82 points
Date : 2024-01-05 20:34 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (world.hey.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (world.hey.com)
| rgovostes wrote:
| "If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps." -- App
| Store Review Guidelines, 2010
| (https://www.cultofmac.com/58590/heres-the-full-text-of-apple...)
|
| (It often helps.)
| cma wrote:
| That statement seems like it would legally be extortion. I
| guess by only saying never helps and not that it hurts, it
| isn't?
| meibo wrote:
| > That statement seems like it would legally be extortion.
|
| Like their entire App Store business?
| e28eta wrote:
| I think this is a fair summary for those of us that haven't been
| paying attention to Hey, although if someone has a better roundup
| I'd love to read it
|
| https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21298552/apple-hey-email-...
| ipqk wrote:
| This is from 3+ years ago.
| cp9 wrote:
| re: the 19 days issue
|
| you're planning around the time where most of the people who
| review these things are going to be taking PTO. as far as I could
| tell reading the guidelines the only guarantee apple gives you is
| that they'll get to it as soon as possible
|
| it's also a little funny that DHH is saying that apple exempted
| them from the rules last time and then a couple paragraphs later
| is complaining that apple exempts other companies from the rules
| as well
| hightrix wrote:
| Anyone who has ever deployed an app to the iOS App Store knows,
| very well, that Apple slows reviews during the US Holiday
| season. Additionally, anyone who has done this also knows that
| Apple review times are extremely variable from 1 day to 1
| month.
|
| I agree, the duration of the review is irrelevant to this
| complaint. I would suggest hiring SWEs/consultants who actually
| understand the iOS App Review process the next time you want to
| release an app, since Hey obviously does not understand it.
| rgovostes wrote:
| Apple preemptively warns developers about longer processing
| times during the holidays every year. (Until recently, they
| did no reviews at all during the week of Christmas.) E.g.,
| https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=xpkhwg3l
| keleftheriou wrote:
| The US holiday season slowdown is only for a handful of days
| and not sufficient to explain a 19-day review time.
|
| From Apple's announcement[1]:
|
| > On average, 90% of submissions are reviewed in less than 24
| hours. However, reviews may take a bit longer to complete
| from December 22 to 27.
|
| [1]: https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=uijoypq9
| hightrix wrote:
| Correct, but anyone with experience attempting to release
| during this timeframe knows that review times between
| Thanksgiving and the new year are always slower than
| normal.
|
| Additionally, brand new apps, not new versions of existing
| apps, always take longer.
|
| I constantly recommend to both my project team and other
| teams asking for advice to have a submission in to the App
| Store 4 weeks before you want to release. Otherwise you
| risk exactly what happened here.
| keleftheriou wrote:
| The US holiday season slowdown is only for a handful of days
| and not sufficient to explain a 19-day review time.
|
| From Apple's announcement[1]:
|
| > On average, 90% of submissions are reviewed in less than 24
| hours. However, reviews may take a bit longer to complete from
| December 22 to 27.
|
| [1]: https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=uijoypq9
| mertbio wrote:
| DHH really needs to control his temper. Instead of focusing on
| the discrimination of his app (while there are other apps similar
| to HEY Calendar, why theirs rejected), he keeps mentioning about
| Apple's 30% commission but this commission only applies to small
| number of developers. If you don't earn more than $1 million in a
| year, you only pay 15%. If you earn more than that but have
| subscriptions (like HEY) then you pay 15% after the first year of
| the subscription.
|
| I think he should just focus on the discrimination part instead
| of mentioning about the tax or Apple being a monopoly. I don't
| how mentioning those things is going to help him to solve the
| issue. (Since it is already decided by a judge that Apple doesn't
| have a monopoly on the App Store)
| cma wrote:
| No it also hurts small developers that need funding. Publishers
| and investors work on a hit model, giving advances to lots of
| small projects in the hopes that they have a hit. If all hits
| at taxed at 30%, then the available funding for everyone goes
| down.
|
| If the government added an additional 50% tax on books that
| sold over a million copies, it would affect funding for many
| more authors than the ones with books over the threshold.
| wbkang wrote:
| It's still a valid point. Is it ok to take 15% more if you make
| more money? Does the marginal cost of supporting an app
| _increase_ as opposed to stay the same or decrease?
| Terretta wrote:
| Depends on the app, but for some apps, the more users, the
| more your cost per user increases, because of the type of
| user in each cohort.
|
| Early adopters tend to explore and self-support more. Late
| majority need more TLC.
| Terretta wrote:
| And, shops with no monopoly and less customer loyalty are
| charging by and large the same percentage.
|
| For that matter, even supermarkets charge for shelf
| positioning.
| hightrix wrote:
| > After spending 19 days to review our submission, causing us to
| miss a long-planned January 2nd launch date
|
| If this review time period caused Hey to miss their launch date,
| this is a major signal that their developers do not have _ANY_
| experience with the iOS App Store.
|
| > That is because users are required to login with an existing
| account to use the functionality.
|
| Again, this is clearly spelled out in the Apple App Store
| requirements. You _MUST_ provide credential for reviews, and
| those credentials must work. Additionaly, if you are pushing
| users to login through an external provider, providing a "Demo
| Mode" is an easy way around App Store restrictions.
|
| This entire article reaks of inexperience, which is pretty
| incredible since Hey has gone through similar in the past[0].
|
| My suggestion, hire software engineers with experience releasing
| to the app store.
|
| [0]-https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1272968382329942017
| 1123581321 wrote:
| I think you're misreading. They are being rejected because the
| account requires a login to a service that isn't sold via IAP,
| not because they failed to provide a demo login to reviewers.
| There's no way they haven't been providing demo logins for
| Basecamp all these years.
|
| As for review turnaround times, it's been quite awhile since
| multiple weeks without a response has been normal. In a normal
| app store submission process, with an app this size, an
| experienced team can plan to make requested changes with that
| much lead time before a launch date.
|
| I'm surprised though that they didn't ship this calendar app
| with a simple calendar you can use without paying. That's how
| they handled the email app deadlock; there's a temporary random
| email generator feature that anyone can use, which gives the
| app the requested out-of-the-box functionality. Seems like the
| same workaround could have been successful here.
| hightrix wrote:
| > They are being rejected because the account requires a
| login to a service that isn't sold via IAP
|
| I'm extremely skeptical of this claim. I have apps in the app
| store that behave exactly as you've described and Apple has
| not rejected any of our submissions. One app uses a third
| party login, one uses a first party login. One allows for
| registration within the app, the other requires registration
| outside of the app.
|
| >it's been quite awhile since multiple weeks without a
| response has been normal
|
| You are correct that typically reviews are very fast. That
| said, we recently had a new version of an app take 2 weeks
| (14 days) to get reviewed and rejected due to a similar, but
| different, issue. My guiddance is always submit very early
| (4+ weeks), especially when you have a launch date with
| marketing or other real-world tie-ins.
|
| There are easy ways to work around Hey Calendar's rejection,
| but only if you submit early and are prepared to do the work.
| Similar to your suggestion, providing a "Demo Mode" where a
| user can see what the app does without login easily solves
| the rejection issue. I can say this with confidence as I've
| done it in the past with an app that is still on the app
| store.
| theolivenbaum wrote:
| "Hopefully our example, and the countless others we've seen over
| the years, will finally force competition authorities around the
| world to act." You would think Apple, in the middle of being
| investigated from all sides for monopoly, would think twice
| before rejecting Hey for a second time for a stupid reason
| lawgimenez wrote:
| As someone who has deployed dozens of apps to the App Store for
| clients, avoid submitting first time apps during the holidays and
| add free account solely for Apple reviewers.
| paulddraper wrote:
| It appears they submitted the app before the holidays?
|
| > After spending 19 days to review our submission, causing us
| to miss a long-planned January 2nd launch date
| TheLoafOfBread wrote:
| Can't wait when App Store model is finally dead and installing
| from multiple sources like I can on Windows or MacOS is normal on
| phones as well.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| I remember when Epic tried to do this and the internet piled on
| them for being greedy.
| thw91 wrote:
| DHH knows best.
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