[HN Gopher] Apple Rejects the Hey Calendar from Their App Store
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       Apple Rejects the Hey Calendar from Their App Store
        
       Author : andrewbarba
       Score  : 82 points
       Date   : 2024-01-05 20:34 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (world.hey.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (world.hey.com)
        
       | rgovostes wrote:
       | "If you run to the press and trash us, it never helps." -- App
       | Store Review Guidelines, 2010
       | (https://www.cultofmac.com/58590/heres-the-full-text-of-apple...)
       | 
       | (It often helps.)
        
         | cma wrote:
         | That statement seems like it would legally be extortion. I
         | guess by only saying never helps and not that it hurts, it
         | isn't?
        
           | meibo wrote:
           | > That statement seems like it would legally be extortion.
           | 
           | Like their entire App Store business?
        
       | e28eta wrote:
       | I think this is a fair summary for those of us that haven't been
       | paying attention to Hey, although if someone has a better roundup
       | I'd love to read it
       | 
       | https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/22/21298552/apple-hey-email-...
        
         | ipqk wrote:
         | This is from 3+ years ago.
        
       | cp9 wrote:
       | re: the 19 days issue
       | 
       | you're planning around the time where most of the people who
       | review these things are going to be taking PTO. as far as I could
       | tell reading the guidelines the only guarantee apple gives you is
       | that they'll get to it as soon as possible
       | 
       | it's also a little funny that DHH is saying that apple exempted
       | them from the rules last time and then a couple paragraphs later
       | is complaining that apple exempts other companies from the rules
       | as well
        
         | hightrix wrote:
         | Anyone who has ever deployed an app to the iOS App Store knows,
         | very well, that Apple slows reviews during the US Holiday
         | season. Additionally, anyone who has done this also knows that
         | Apple review times are extremely variable from 1 day to 1
         | month.
         | 
         | I agree, the duration of the review is irrelevant to this
         | complaint. I would suggest hiring SWEs/consultants who actually
         | understand the iOS App Review process the next time you want to
         | release an app, since Hey obviously does not understand it.
        
           | rgovostes wrote:
           | Apple preemptively warns developers about longer processing
           | times during the holidays every year. (Until recently, they
           | did no reviews at all during the week of Christmas.) E.g.,
           | https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=xpkhwg3l
        
           | keleftheriou wrote:
           | The US holiday season slowdown is only for a handful of days
           | and not sufficient to explain a 19-day review time.
           | 
           | From Apple's announcement[1]:
           | 
           | > On average, 90% of submissions are reviewed in less than 24
           | hours. However, reviews may take a bit longer to complete
           | from December 22 to 27.
           | 
           | [1]: https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=uijoypq9
        
             | hightrix wrote:
             | Correct, but anyone with experience attempting to release
             | during this timeframe knows that review times between
             | Thanksgiving and the new year are always slower than
             | normal.
             | 
             | Additionally, brand new apps, not new versions of existing
             | apps, always take longer.
             | 
             | I constantly recommend to both my project team and other
             | teams asking for advice to have a submission in to the App
             | Store 4 weeks before you want to release. Otherwise you
             | risk exactly what happened here.
        
         | keleftheriou wrote:
         | The US holiday season slowdown is only for a handful of days
         | and not sufficient to explain a 19-day review time.
         | 
         | From Apple's announcement[1]:
         | 
         | > On average, 90% of submissions are reviewed in less than 24
         | hours. However, reviews may take a bit longer to complete from
         | December 22 to 27.
         | 
         | [1]: https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=uijoypq9
        
       | mertbio wrote:
       | DHH really needs to control his temper. Instead of focusing on
       | the discrimination of his app (while there are other apps similar
       | to HEY Calendar, why theirs rejected), he keeps mentioning about
       | Apple's 30% commission but this commission only applies to small
       | number of developers. If you don't earn more than $1 million in a
       | year, you only pay 15%. If you earn more than that but have
       | subscriptions (like HEY) then you pay 15% after the first year of
       | the subscription.
       | 
       | I think he should just focus on the discrimination part instead
       | of mentioning about the tax or Apple being a monopoly. I don't
       | how mentioning those things is going to help him to solve the
       | issue. (Since it is already decided by a judge that Apple doesn't
       | have a monopoly on the App Store)
        
         | cma wrote:
         | No it also hurts small developers that need funding. Publishers
         | and investors work on a hit model, giving advances to lots of
         | small projects in the hopes that they have a hit. If all hits
         | at taxed at 30%, then the available funding for everyone goes
         | down.
         | 
         | If the government added an additional 50% tax on books that
         | sold over a million copies, it would affect funding for many
         | more authors than the ones with books over the threshold.
        
         | wbkang wrote:
         | It's still a valid point. Is it ok to take 15% more if you make
         | more money? Does the marginal cost of supporting an app
         | _increase_ as opposed to stay the same or decrease?
        
           | Terretta wrote:
           | Depends on the app, but for some apps, the more users, the
           | more your cost per user increases, because of the type of
           | user in each cohort.
           | 
           | Early adopters tend to explore and self-support more. Late
           | majority need more TLC.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | And, shops with no monopoly and less customer loyalty are
         | charging by and large the same percentage.
         | 
         | For that matter, even supermarkets charge for shelf
         | positioning.
        
       | hightrix wrote:
       | > After spending 19 days to review our submission, causing us to
       | miss a long-planned January 2nd launch date
       | 
       | If this review time period caused Hey to miss their launch date,
       | this is a major signal that their developers do not have _ANY_
       | experience with the iOS App Store.
       | 
       | > That is because users are required to login with an existing
       | account to use the functionality.
       | 
       | Again, this is clearly spelled out in the Apple App Store
       | requirements. You _MUST_ provide credential for reviews, and
       | those credentials must work. Additionaly, if you are pushing
       | users to login through an external provider, providing a  "Demo
       | Mode" is an easy way around App Store restrictions.
       | 
       | This entire article reaks of inexperience, which is pretty
       | incredible since Hey has gone through similar in the past[0].
       | 
       | My suggestion, hire software engineers with experience releasing
       | to the app store.
       | 
       | [0]-https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1272968382329942017
        
         | 1123581321 wrote:
         | I think you're misreading. They are being rejected because the
         | account requires a login to a service that isn't sold via IAP,
         | not because they failed to provide a demo login to reviewers.
         | There's no way they haven't been providing demo logins for
         | Basecamp all these years.
         | 
         | As for review turnaround times, it's been quite awhile since
         | multiple weeks without a response has been normal. In a normal
         | app store submission process, with an app this size, an
         | experienced team can plan to make requested changes with that
         | much lead time before a launch date.
         | 
         | I'm surprised though that they didn't ship this calendar app
         | with a simple calendar you can use without paying. That's how
         | they handled the email app deadlock; there's a temporary random
         | email generator feature that anyone can use, which gives the
         | app the requested out-of-the-box functionality. Seems like the
         | same workaround could have been successful here.
        
           | hightrix wrote:
           | > They are being rejected because the account requires a
           | login to a service that isn't sold via IAP
           | 
           | I'm extremely skeptical of this claim. I have apps in the app
           | store that behave exactly as you've described and Apple has
           | not rejected any of our submissions. One app uses a third
           | party login, one uses a first party login. One allows for
           | registration within the app, the other requires registration
           | outside of the app.
           | 
           | >it's been quite awhile since multiple weeks without a
           | response has been normal
           | 
           | You are correct that typically reviews are very fast. That
           | said, we recently had a new version of an app take 2 weeks
           | (14 days) to get reviewed and rejected due to a similar, but
           | different, issue. My guiddance is always submit very early
           | (4+ weeks), especially when you have a launch date with
           | marketing or other real-world tie-ins.
           | 
           | There are easy ways to work around Hey Calendar's rejection,
           | but only if you submit early and are prepared to do the work.
           | Similar to your suggestion, providing a "Demo Mode" where a
           | user can see what the app does without login easily solves
           | the rejection issue. I can say this with confidence as I've
           | done it in the past with an app that is still on the app
           | store.
        
       | theolivenbaum wrote:
       | "Hopefully our example, and the countless others we've seen over
       | the years, will finally force competition authorities around the
       | world to act." You would think Apple, in the middle of being
       | investigated from all sides for monopoly, would think twice
       | before rejecting Hey for a second time for a stupid reason
        
       | lawgimenez wrote:
       | As someone who has deployed dozens of apps to the App Store for
       | clients, avoid submitting first time apps during the holidays and
       | add free account solely for Apple reviewers.
        
         | paulddraper wrote:
         | It appears they submitted the app before the holidays?
         | 
         | > After spending 19 days to review our submission, causing us
         | to miss a long-planned January 2nd launch date
        
       | TheLoafOfBread wrote:
       | Can't wait when App Store model is finally dead and installing
       | from multiple sources like I can on Windows or MacOS is normal on
       | phones as well.
        
         | Workaccount2 wrote:
         | I remember when Epic tried to do this and the internet piled on
         | them for being greedy.
        
       | thw91 wrote:
       | DHH knows best.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-05 23:02 UTC)