[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-r...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Ask HN: Any felons successfully found IT work post-release?
        
       Hello HN,  Does anyone have experience getting back into
       tech/startups post-felony?  I have been looking for work since I
       was released for an assault charge in November 2022.  Previously I
       worked in Information Security as a SecOps Eng, most recently at
       Tinder. Between lack of recent job experience, and my record, I
       have been through a series of offer reneges, recruiters ghosting
       me, or going into HR resume black holes.  I am eager to get back
       into tech and feel like my old self adding value to a great
       team/org.  Anyone have leads on companies that are open to taking
       chances on good candidates with less than sparkling backgrounds?
       NOTE: My offense was not computer/finance/fraud/selling
       drugs/physical violence/based at all.  Here is my linkedin:
       https://www.linkedin.com/in/saunderscaleb/
        
       Author : publicprivacy
       Score  : 154 points
       Date   : 2024-01-03 18:53 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
       | VirusNewbie wrote:
       | Assault charges but not physical violence? What in the world? I'm
       | so sorry you got that on your record.
       | 
       | I would look at smaller startups that might make it easy to just
       | escalate to the CEO if you have a good explanation, rather than
       | having an HR department stop you right away.
       | 
       | EDIT: I thought assault meant physical violence, but not harm
       | while battery meant harm. I was wrong I guess?
        
         | jasonpeacock wrote:
         | Given that urinating in public can result in sex offender
         | charges in some locales, I'm not surprised that you can have
         | non-violent assault charges.
        
           | badrequest wrote:
           | This basically doesn't happen, mostly an urban legend.
        
             | jasonpeacock wrote:
             | Some quick googling says that while highly unlikely, it is
             | technically possible...so we're both right?
             | 
             | Apparently public urination can overlap with indecent
             | exposure, depending on the situation, and the latter can
             | result in a sex offender registry.
        
             | edgyquant wrote:
             | I know someone it happened to, so it does definitely happen
        
               | local_crmdgeon wrote:
               | Would recommend verifying their charges yourself, people
               | tell you this so you don't go peeking around. It's often
               | a cover for a significantly more serious act.
               | 
               | Look on the registry yourself - you won't see anyone on
               | there for peeing in public: https://www.nsopw.gov/
        
           | local_crmdgeon wrote:
           | This doesn't actually happen, it's only possible when there's
           | a sexual component.
           | 
           | You hear the concept a lot, because it's a cover - "I'm on
           | the sex offenders list, but I was just peeing. Didn't realize
           | it was a playground, whoops!" is different from the true "I
           | raped a girl, and despite the incredibly high burden of proof
           | in that charge I was convicted, and now I have to tell you
           | about it because I moved next door."
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | > I raped a girl, and despite the incredibly high burden of
             | proof in that charge I was convicted
             | 
             | What burden of proof?
             | 
             | This is a crime where you can be accused of having
             | committed it several years in the past, with no supporting
             | evidence of any kind, and convicted for no other reason
             | than that you give someone a "rapist" vibe.
             | 
             | https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedet
             | a...
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | > Assault charges but not physical violence?
         | 
         | Physical violence is battery.
         | 
         | https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault_and_battery
         | 
         | "Assault refers to the wrong act of causing someone to
         | reasonably fear imminent harm. This means that the fear must be
         | something a reasonable person would foresee as threatening to
         | them. Battery refers to the actual wrong act of physically
         | harming someone."
        
           | mgarfias wrote:
           | Not always. For example: oregon doesn't have battery, it is
           | all assault. Just varies in degree (4th->1st).
        
           | nsxwolf wrote:
           | Regardless, it's pretty brutal to have such poor legal
           | representation that an act with no real physical attack
           | couldn't be pled down to a misdemeanor.
        
             | whiddershins wrote:
             | Misdemeanor is still a criminal record.
        
         | hiddencost wrote:
         | Keep in mind that battery is the charge that encompasses
         | physical violence; assault specifically does not.
        
         | fr0sty wrote:
         | > Assault charges but not physical violence? What in the world?
         | 
         | "The legal definition of assault is an intentional act that
         | gives another person reasonable fear that they'll be physically
         | harmed or offensively touched. No physical contact or injury
         | has to actually occur, but the accused person must have
         | intentionally acted in a way to cause that fear."
         | 
         | https://vindicatelaw.com/assault-vs-battery-are-they-the-sam...
        
         | birdman3131 wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38858468 They mention here
         | some more info.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | There are a couple of folks here that run organizations
       | specifically geared towards helping felons in tech.
       | 
       | I can't think of them, right offhand, but I'll bet they pipe in.
       | 
       | I'd suggest making the title a wee bit "pithier," to make sure
       | they understand it.
       | 
       | For example: "I Have a Felony, and it is Making it Difficult to
       | Find Work."
       | 
       | I have known many folks with felony records that have found work,
       | but it tends to be challenging. Stubbornness and not reacting to
       | the dicks is an asset.
       | 
       | I sincerely wish you luck.
        
       | codegeek wrote:
       | Find startup/smaller companies, be totally honest about what
       | happened and make your case. Large companies will filter you out
       | during application/HR process itself.
        
       | milkshakes wrote:
       | checkr
        
         | milkshakes wrote:
         | for the haters downvoting: https://checkr.com/company/mission
        
       | publicprivacy wrote:
       | Thank you all for your perspective, and suggestions.
       | 
       | I was on a bad psychedelic trip, accompanied with some other
       | issues at the time and ending up making threatening statements to
       | a very high level official, but no battery occurred whatsoever.
       | Thank goodness, or I would _probably_ not be writing this message
        
         | runjake wrote:
         | You said in your post it was not drug-related, but here you say
         | it was a bad psychedelic trip. Which is true?
        
           | publicprivacy wrote:
           | I meant drug sales, thank you I updated
        
         | x0x0 wrote:
         | You could also consider working as a consultant or external pen
         | tester. When we hired our pen testers, we did not run
         | background checks on them, not least because they have no
         | access to customer data so it's much less of a concern.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | If the people you're paying to find weaknesses in the
           | security system are assuredly never going to find a way to
           | access internal data then how did you conclude you needed a
           | pen tester in the first place? I mean, it's probably the
           | right conclusion but only precisely because they'd find a way
           | to access things they shouldn't be able to.
        
             | mkii wrote:
             | It could have been for a service that was not in production
             | yet, and in an isolated environment.
        
             | x0x0 wrote:
             | We spin up a clone of prod and point them at that.
             | 
             | Certainly if a weakness is found in the clone it's also
             | present in prod, but that's what contracts are for. And we
             | also review logs to make sure.
             | 
             | edit: a clone of prod w/ only test data in it, not prod
             | data.
        
               | randomdata wrote:
               | How do you know what you are looking for in the logs?
               | 
               | If you have the foresight to be able to recognize a
               | malicious action from the logs, why not have the software
               | block those actions from the start?
        
               | x0x0 wrote:
               | We log all accesses and flows. So eg if our pentesters
               | found a vulnerability in an endpoint, we can retrieve
               | every post against that endpoint and (1) verify the
               | pentesters didn't exploit it against prod, and (2) verify
               | that it hasn't been exploited by anyone else.
        
               | randomdata wrote:
               | Of course, that only works if the vulnerability is
               | reported. There is no reason for the malicious actor to
               | report the vulnerability they have chosen to exploit.
               | 
               | What percentage of the vulnerabilities discovered are
               | independently discovered by multiple pen testers?
        
               | unethical_ban wrote:
               | It sounds like you're suggesting that pen testers by
               | default will not reveal discovered vulnerabilities with
               | clients.
               | 
               | Then you talk about "discovered and revealed
               | vulnerabilities". But, your first sentence talks about
               | "discovered vulnerabilities not revealed".
               | 
               | What you may be wanting is a honeypot, where a pentest
               | client intentionally puts some vulnerabilities of various
               | exploit difficulty into the clone environment to ensure
               | pentesters are doing their job.
        
             | debo_ wrote:
             | It's relatively common to have pen testers attack a cloned
             | environment w/ sanitized data. This is especially true in
             | cases where your policies (or those you've agreed to from
             | customers) require you to present evidence that you are
             | having a pen test done every X years.
        
         | gnfargbl wrote:
         | The challenge here is your choice of specialism. Security is
         | fundamentally a trust-based business and the industry is pretty
         | wary of anyone with a perceived black mark against them. The
         | reasons for this are mainly liability ("if this guy does
         | something wrong and he already has a record, how will we
         | look?") and reputation ("what will our government customers
         | think about us if we hire this person?").
         | 
         | Could/would you consider a sideways step to something less
         | directly security based? For instance there might be data
         | engineering roles that might suit.
        
           | jstarfish wrote:
           | My experience is different. I'm not a felon but I come across
           | them in the workplace fairly often as an internal
           | investigator. We have infosec personnel working for us with
           | nonviolent sex offender convictions who _also_ maintain
           | security clearances (defense contractor). Life does not end
           | with a conviction; don 't wear a sandwich board broadcasting
           | it but honesty goes a long way. It's the lies that _I 'll_
           | eventually hang you with.
           | 
           | Go west if you can. If you're on the east coast it's hell.
           | The "liability" concerns are (IME) a pervasive east-coast
           | racist myth from the 60s, but it's a real threat. The same
           | justification was used to expand routine drug screening from
           | forklift operators and truck drivers to keyboard jockeys.
           | Equifax did drug testing of white-collar employees and did
           | not hire criminals; so much for their liability and
           | reputation following the worst data breach in history. It's
           | all bullshit; both justifications are veiled cause to not
           | hire blacks.
           | 
           | Mind your co-workers inclined to cyberstalk everyone around
           | them and using your skeletons to raise PR hell to advance
           | their own career. We've unfortunately thrown employees under
           | the bus due to public outcry. Social "justice" in action!
           | (What was the prison sentence for, if not justice...?)
        
       | justsomeoldguy wrote:
       | it's been 14 years since my felony, and every IT job I've had
       | started out good but they looked me up. I got a unique name I
       | can't change right now. so they always find me, I've been hired
       | by billion dollar companies for technical member of staff
       | positions paying 165k, only to be fired the day before I was
       | supposed to start.
       | 
       | I can't do it anymore. I can't try anymore. I've tried for years
       | and years and I can't handle this rejection. I can't handle
       | knowing at the drop of a hat I'm gonna lose my job again the
       | moment they find out. I just can't do this anymore. I really
       | can't. I can't be this good, this friendly to people, this
       | competent, and still judged so badly from something that happened
       | while I was on drugs 14 years ago. I've been clean for as many
       | years. It doesn't matter. I've tried explaining, doesn't matter.
       | I've treid playing dumb and hoping the background check won't
       | find it. I've relied on the right-to-be-forgotten laws and the
       | fair credit reporting act-- billion dollar companies still refuse
       | to follow the procedure. they didn't get me any chance to dispute
       | what they found, even when they said they would. And no, suing
       | them doesn't work. No one will take the case and I aint got money
       | for it so no.
       | 
       | there are no solutions. I'm paid to find solutions to any
       | problem... and I have none. I can find none. :(
       | 
       | People judge harsh these days. Good luck, you need it. Even if
       | you get a job, it's a hell of a thing to have a coworker you've
       | worked with for 18 months walk up to you with a printout of your
       | case, saying, is this you? and then he pretends it didn't bother
       | him.
       | 
       | oh it bothered him.
       | 
       | they walked me out not long after that for something seemingly
       | unrelated. that job lasted exactly 2 years.
       | 
       | My next, I got walked out at just 4 months for "defacing company
       | property" yeah I wrote my name on my custom chair they ordered
       | for me. I was financially responsible for that chair, I know
       | because I built the inventory system to keep track of the serial
       | numbers. Do you think this mattered? Hell no. Do you think people
       | cared to reason? nope. they kept a straight face even, said that
       | I was lucky they weren't calling the cops.
       | 
       | well joke was sort of on them. my unemployment claim went before
       | a magistrate and he took one look and said to them, did you get
       | him a chance to wipe it off? and I'm like "I had multiple sovants
       | on hand that would have worked. they never even gave me a
       | chance." and they were like "...." and that was it. ruled in my
       | favor.
       | 
       | but how it left me. it just devestated me. I brought my a game to
       | that job. I grew that company from 29 employees to 165. I had
       | microsoft hybrid local/cloud running and the dell laptops would
       | auto provision all the user had to do was login with their
       | username and password. it all unfolded, installed everything they
       | needed. a perfect image. it was done in 20 minutes. it was
       | amazing, microsoft really has some powerful tools to help IT get
       | new employees working fast.
       | 
       | it just sucks. it sucks more than anything. it's unfair, sure.
       | the world is unfair. but it is beyond unfair. and it has cost me
       | everything ... this latest one just... sent me into a spiral. and
       | I just gave up. I lost all my possessions, a lifetime of them. I
       | just walked. how can I care anymore?
        
         | altdataseller wrote:
         | Can you change your name? (dumb Q perhaps)
        
           | justsomeoldguy wrote:
           | not presently. but soon. I'm between addresses right now,
           | basically. The last state I lived in wouldn't let me do it
           | 
           | I'll still have a social security number that won't change,
           | and I'll have an alias and anyone who really wants to find my
           | info will find it even with a name change.
           | 
           | What a name change does is get me off a simple google search.
           | which isn't legal, fair credit reporting act defines very
           | clearly what you are and are not allowed to do to investigate
           | potential employees.
           | 
           | and yet, do you really think I can start any business
           | relationship by telling someone they can't do things like
           | look me up? It's effectively what that is, and it's
           | unreasonable.
           | 
           | The industry is still stuck in a "no one knows what to do
           | about this problem"
           | 
           | can't stop people from googling you. but I can change my name
           | ... but it's not going to stop the ones who look futher. and
           | so far, all of them have.
        
             | giantg2 wrote:
             | 'The industry is still stuck in a "no one knows what to do
             | about this problem"'
             | 
             | It's not that nobody knows - nobody cares. The lawyers will
             | always advocate for not hiring anyone "risky". Be that
             | criminal convictions, dismissed charges, or people with
             | disabilities.
        
               | justsomeoldguy wrote:
               | Sure but there are laws designed to prevent how far back
               | they are able to look to find thaat information. And the
               | laws aren't even being followed-- the lawyers should be
               | telling them to follow them ... and yet.
        
               | giantg2 wrote:
               | Yeah, and there are laws about not discriminating against
               | people with disabilities and they aren't being followed.
        
             | losvedir wrote:
             | Sorry to hear all this. I feel bad suggesting this, and I
             | know it's disrespectful and could be hurtful to others, but
             | since it sounds like you're at the end of your rope: could
             | you pretend to be trans?
             | 
             | I have had a number of (wonderful!) trans colleagues, and
             | I'm fairly sure they've all chosen new names, and I haven't
             | a clue what their old names were. Being trans would give a
             | socially acceptable (in tech circles anyway) reason for
             | having a name change, and trying to "deadname" you is
             | sufficiently disrespectful that it may hold off some of
             | your more busybody colleagues from trying.
        
         | 13415 wrote:
         | Move abroad. Unless you apply for a security-related position
         | or in childcare/education, it is not common outside the US to
         | demand a background check. In any case, in most countries they
         | need to ask the candidate and do not have the power or right to
         | demand the data for themselves.
        
           | 20after4 wrote:
           | You can't move abroad with a felony record and no money.
        
             | withinboredom wrote:
             | Depends on the country.
        
             | justsomeoldguy wrote:
             | thank you. moving abroad takes major bank, and I have a
             | partner here where I'm living now. We've got dogs. I'm not
             | leaving everyone behind and we're not moving to another
             | country it's just not in the cards.
        
         | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
         | I think being upfront is important. There's a lot of stuff that
         | doesn't need to be said (I've been clean 43 years, and no one
         | ever knew, in my jobs -I just wasn't much fun at the office
         | party), but felonies will always come up; even obscure ones.
         | 
         | HR depts hire these companies that break out the digital
         | proctoscope, and they do things like find your social media
         | accounts. Also, if you piss someone off, they can rat you, and
         | you can be fired with cause.
        
           | sjfjsjdjwvwvc wrote:
           | Being upfront won't do you any favours.
        
             | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
             | That depends. Different companies have different policies.
             | I've seen folks marched out the door, a couple of weeks
             | after being hired, because they pretended otherwise.
             | 
             | As I've said, I've personally seen a lot of felons do fine.
             | 
             | "Being upfront" doesn't mean immediately stating it up
             | front, but it also means not lying or pretending it won't
             | come up. Also, there are time limits on this kind of thing.
             | 
             | I know a chap that graduated from Brown, in finance, and
             | got busted in college, with misdemeanor pot, and that
             | haunted him for decades.
             | 
             | I also know a chap that did four bids Upstate, retrained,
             | and got a job as an IT admin for BNL. He did great, but
             | burgers killed him.
        
             | justsomeoldguy wrote:
             | there is no universal technique. you should try to be up
             | front. you don't want things to be discovered later that
             | will walk you out. but if being up front makes them pass on
             | you, just what is the option?
        
         | pennaMan wrote:
         | Move to another country. Open a LLC and work as a contractor
         | via your firm. Bootstrap a B2B startup, you seem to have
         | valuable skills you can bring to market. There are many
         | solutions but they do require you to make a hard trade off.
        
           | justsomeoldguy wrote:
           | moving to another country isn't an option. the only ones I'd
           | be willing to go to won't let felons in. I can't even drive
           | to canada 10 miles from where I live, here at the border, to
           | see friends. no felons are allowed in canada for life. they
           | will arrest you immediately for trying, signs for it
           | everywhere.
           | 
           | I have an LLC. I'm a published author, but sales are nothing
           | I could live off of.
           | 
           | I'm not sure I have what it takes to bootstrap a b2b. It's
           | why I like working with others. I literally enjoy helping
           | other people solve problems. I was an SRE two positions ago
           | and I took on the IT role for an extra 5k/year. and I happily
           | answered calls to change peoples passwords, because it was a
           | small company. and everyone really respected each other.
           | everyone was grateful. I had cards all over my wall that
           | people sent me, thank you cards. covering half of it by the
           | end. this is what I need in life, all I need. I'm old enough
           | now to know the difference between wants and needs.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | > Move to another country.
           | 
           | Your plan sounded perfect except for the complete
           | infeasibility of it. Countries don't let felons from other
           | countries immigrate.
        
             | justsomeoldguy wrote:
             | thank you for that, it can be really frustrating to get
             | suggestions when people don't even know what they're
             | suggesting.
             | 
             | Lets say a felon immigrates to germany. their policy is
             | they won't ask. but if they find out you were a felon in
             | the US, at any point in your life, they will immediately
             | deport you. and your life in germany however much you
             | built, is forfeit. yay! at any point in time.
             | 
             | that is not an acceptable risk
        
             | deadbabe wrote:
             | People underestimate how easily they can travel and how
             | it's really just a privilege.
             | 
             | You end up on a no fly list or become a convicted felon and
             | that's it, your life of travel is snuffed out.
             | 
             | I really feel for the OP.
        
           | withinboredom wrote:
           | When I moved to the Netherlands to start a company, they only
           | looked back 10 years for a background check to get the visa.
           | I highly recommend leaving the country and starting
           | completely fresh if the algorithms got you fucked.
        
         | giantg2 wrote:
         | Sounds a lot like having a disability. They aren't allowed to
         | discriminate, but they find ways around it.
        
       | NoZebra120vClip wrote:
       | Have you worked with social service agencies which specialize in
       | such employment?
       | 
       | In my metropolitan area there is a significant network of
       | employment agencies. Many are faith-based and many work with the
       | homeless and disadvantaged, and it is not unusual for some to
       | cater to ex-cons and felons. They will not advertise this stuff
       | publicly, so you will need to get referrals and inside
       | information on how to find them, but once you hook up with such
       | an agency, your chances should improve drastically. Many of them
       | will counsel you on how to approach applications and interviews,
       | they will broker connections with employers who can overlook such
       | a record, and they really know the communities they work in.
       | 
       | Do not discount the power of your State agencies to help you as
       | well, such as through Vocational Rehab programs.
       | 
       | One drawback I've found to working with these folks is that
       | they're geared to low-income jobs, manual labor, call centers and
       | food service type stuff. They're not well-equipped to handle
       | professionals in industries like IT, but you can certainly help
       | them adapt, and recognize that we're worthy of assistance too.
       | The more professional ex-felons who approach them, the better
       | equipped they will be to serve people like us.
       | 
       | 26 years ago, they parked me in a homeless shelter with a
       | newspaper and a public phone to apply for jobs. Not even a
       | typewriter to create a resume. It was a joke. When I was finally
       | motivated and qualified, I found the right agencies and the right
       | assistance, and it made all the difference in the world.
        
         | justsomeoldguy wrote:
         | the last state agency I worked with was at utah. and they told
         | me I had a 6% chance of finding a job in the tech industry
         | without someone on the inside. they were very blunt about it,
         | and apologetic. The statistics don't lie and they were like,
         | you are not going to get a tech job before you win the lottery.
         | 
         | Only way I could collect unemployment was if I was working
         | every week to find a new job and putting out applications, and
         | they were helping me. but no one wants to touch me, through
         | those channels. not so far.
        
       | runjake wrote:
       | I don't have much helpful to add, but I had a colleague who had a
       | bad night, acquired some felony charges for a firearm-related
       | assault and they got fired/blacklisted for a few years.
       | 
       | Subsequently, they did IT contract work behind the scenes with
       | small contractors, kept in touch with his professional network,
       | was super helpful to the rest of us, and after serious concerns
       | and much debate, got back into his prior career with a new
       | employer.
       | 
       | I don't even know how, because normally a felony would be a no-
       | hire, but he pulled it off, likely because he was so helpful and
       | giving to his professional network throughout this mess.
        
         | helsinki wrote:
         | Felony charges are a lot different from felony convictions. Was
         | he convicted?
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | It's insane that charges that get dismissed are used against
           | people. Maybe for some position of power or sensitive work
           | like police or classified work dependingon the actual
           | details, but there's no reason innocent people should be
           | discriminated against.
        
             | justsomeoldguy wrote:
             | you sound reasonable. the problem is, not everyone is all
             | the time. people make emotional decisions that aren't even
             | supported by laws or ethics. Some people are just mean,
             | some people just want to see the world burn.
        
           | runjake wrote:
           | He was charged _and convicted_ on multiple felonies. Thanks
           | for asking, that 's an important distinction.
           | 
           | There's a good chance he's on HN and may pop into this
           | thread.
        
             | justsomeoldguy wrote:
             | I was charged and convicted with assault with a deadly
             | weapon. I shot someone. he accepted my apology, I was high
             | af and didn't even know what was going on. and I have no
             | history of violence, nor after. but. welp. it was
             | considered domestic violence cuz that someone was my
             | husband. and california wouldn't let him drop the charges.
             | they don't give you that, they just run with it.
             | 
             | its a messed up story. he was devastated. and so angry he
             | drove to the cop station after I was sentenced and flew
             | over the counter and attacked the very first PD officer he
             | saw. She, and a few other officers, beat the living dogshit
             | out of him. made him look like a racoon. broke her wrist in
             | the process-- and so that's felony assault on a police
             | officer WITH GBI. They stuck him one floor above mine. I
             | felt bad, now worse. Dude was a nerd, had no criminal
             | history. he did that for me? I didn't deserve it.
             | 
             | in any event, we divorced while I was in prison. he got
             | permission to see me there towards the end. took a lot of
             | paperwork, but he did it. so we could have closure in
             | person. got the warden to sign off. had to say a million
             | times over that no, he was not brainwashed. no, I didn't
             | shoot him because I love him. it was nothing like that.
             | 
             | only reason I got off parole was I had no restitution. and
             | the only reason there was no restitution was because my
             | husband remained adament that I wasn't all there. an
             | advanced medical directive was in effect, he was actually
             | my legal caretaker at that point. it was a lot of
             | paperwork, notarized even. annnd it counted for nothing.
             | there were no medical bills to pay-- his insurance covered
             | it, there was nothing but the court costs. He had a clean
             | entry and exit, thank god. else it would have been murder
             | huh. went through his chest, he spent a week in the
             | hospital. made a full recovery.
             | 
             | officials reached out to him one last time and asked, and
             | he said something like "you fucks took my husband. eat shit
             | and die." He said similar when it came to getting a
             | statement from him. Unfortunately someone was shot, and I
             | did shoot him, so ... there was no question on if I had
             | committed the crime or not, even without a statement. the
             | powder was on my hands.
             | 
             | I completed a 9 year sentence, all 85% of it.
             | 
             | today it would never happen. the judge had no ability not
             | to send me to prison, or even run the charges concurrent.
             | he straight up said he did not want to do it, but his hands
             | were tied. there were three, assault with a firearm, great
             | bodily injury, and domestic violence. because a gun had
             | been involved. minimum mandatory sentencing. no concurrent,
             | must be consecutive. They gave me the low, a 3/3/3, so 9
             | years.
             | 
             | it doesn't exist these days, but oh well.
             | 
             | I did my time, I didn't let my time do me. I wrote and
             | published a sci fi trilogy, which is really hard to do in
             | prison, but all you have is time.
             | 
             | I like who I am now, and what I've turned into. I worked
             | well at various companies, but ... I wish that was still
             | the case.
        
         | justsomeoldguy wrote:
         | I've had four great tech jobs since I paroled ... I'm old. You
         | want windows 3.11 for workgroups, or you want server 2019. you
         | want *nix, you want macos, I'm into it all. kubernetes,
         | virtualization, hell I used to run vmware GSX for companies
         | before ESX existed. My resume is very strong, and my skills are
         | good. and.... it isn't enough. not so far. it's going to take
         | someone who knows from the start, somehow.
         | 
         | I've made companies a lot of money in my lifetime. I worked at
         | places like exodus communications, netapp, netcom, @home. Some
         | old names people prolly recognize. I specialize in storage, you
         | want ceph? Ceph and I get along great. My last cluster was over
         | 2 PB and it started out just 150TB.
         | 
         | It's simple in the end, I work for companies, solve their
         | problems, make us all money. Should be simple right?
        
           | jfray2k22 wrote:
           | hello fellow excommie!
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | > I had a colleague who had a bad night, acquired some felony
         | charges for a firearm-related assault
         | 
         | That's one hell of a bad night.
        
       | rthkljlkrj wrote:
       | > Previously I worked in Information Security as a SecOps Eng,
       | most recently at Tinder. Between lack of recent job experience,
       | and my record, I have been through a series of offer reneges,
       | recruiters ghosting me, or going into HR resume black holes.
       | 
       | I "look good on paper" and recruiters ghost me too.
        
       | ecmascript wrote:
       | Maybe move to another state or country? If nothing else helps I
       | guess that could be your best option.
        
         | isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote:
         | What country would allow a documented felon to live there?
        
       | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
       | I became self-employed in early 90s after moving to a very
       | different job market (difficult to get work without connections).
       | 
       | I stayed self-employed after my wife's disabilities started
       | impacting my schedule. By the time my wife moved on, I had
       | reached the ageism stage of my career.
       | 
       | I'm still self-employed. Being uninsured sucks but the schedule
       | is pretty okay.
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | If you have got the time and energy, why not start creating an
       | application related to the area you want to work in? It will be a
       | positive at any interviews. Maybe it will bring you some new
       | contacts or consultancy work. And if it gains traction you could
       | start your own business.
       | 
       | (I've run my own 1-man software business since 2005. But I
       | realize it isn't for everyone.)
        
         | itsoktocry wrote:
         | > _If you have got the time and energy, why not start creating
         | an application related to the area you want to work in?_
         | 
         | I agree, start "working in public" and networking a bit on
         | places like Twitter. Those things aren't really my cup-of-tea,
         | but what I _love_ is that the idea of pseudonymity is becoming
         | more accepted. In the IT world, a lot of people don 't care
         | much about you except your ability to produce work.
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | >I agree, start "working in public"
           | 
           | That is one approach. I kept all my code proprietary. Depends
           | on your goals and personality.
        
       | lauralifts wrote:
       | Have you contacted https://www.nextchapterproject.org/?
       | 
       | They do training and placements aimed at getting formerly
       | incarcerated people into tech roles. I don't know if they work
       | with folks like you with experience already but I'd say it's
       | worth a try.
       | 
       | I used to work at Slack, which founded this program.
        
         | publicprivacy wrote:
         | Thank you, checking them out now!
        
       | tauntz wrote:
       | Move to a different country.
       | 
       | I'm in an EU country and it's really rare to see a company do any
       | background checks at all. Be honest, if/when you're asked about
       | it of course - but just from personal anecdotal experience, it's
       | rare that somebody even bothers to ask. (this might vary of
       | course from country to country)
        
         | elchief wrote:
         | the company might not do a criminal background check, but the
         | immigration officer sure will...
         | 
         | another country is very unlikely to let someone immigrate (or
         | even visit) with a criminal record
        
           | filoleg wrote:
           | Yeah, that's a big one. Hell, you will most likely get
           | grilled (and likely denied entry) by Canadian Border Patrol
           | driving in for a short tourist trip as a US citizen just for
           | having a misdemeanor. Not even talking about immigrating to
           | Canada or getting a permission to work there, or more serious
           | offenses.
           | 
           | I have a squeaky clean record, was driving an 8 year old
           | toyota camry at the time, and by all accounts appeared as the
           | most boring non-offensive person out there trying to cross
           | the Vancouver border with my mom and sister (who were both US
           | citizens by then too, so it isn't like I was transporting
           | non-citizens across the border) for a daytrip during a
           | weekend. And CBP went on a 10-15 mins long line of
           | questioning about what exactly I do for work (was in a
           | somewhat niche area of MSFT at the time, so it isn't like
           | they would be suspicious of the employer being shady or
           | anything like that, but also it was really difficult to
           | explain exactly what i do for work to someone who sounded
           | like they just discovered the existence of software
           | engineering and have zero idea what any of it is). Only after
           | that got cleared up and answering a few more strangely
           | personal questions (from me, as well from my mom and sister),
           | they let me in. For context, they were visiting me from GA,
           | and I was the driver. The entire process took close to 20
           | mins. And something similar happened at least every other
           | time I tried to cross the WA-Vancouver border.
           | 
           | In contrast, crossing the border back into the US was as
           | smooth and efficient as I could have possibly imagined every
           | single time. Despite my passengers occasionally creating non-
           | happy-path situations for crossing the border. On that same
           | trip I mentioned above, my mom decided to buy some really
           | nice looking grapes and bring them back home (which was not
           | known to me at the time). The US officer, as we were crossing
           | the border back into the US, asked if we were bringing
           | anything back. My mom honestly said "oh, nothing, except
           | these grapes." Unknown to us, those grapes were considered
           | invasive/harmful species that weren't allowed to be brought
           | into the US. All that did was adding less than an extra
           | minute to our trip, because the border officer just calmly
           | explained to us the situation, profusely apologized, and said
           | that our options were to either eat the grapes or watch as he
           | throws them away into a trash can in front of us. The whole
           | experience from start to finish took less than 2 minutes.
           | 
           | P.S. Major apologies for going on a massive side-tangent. All
           | I wanted to say was that, yeah, with any sort of a criminal
           | record (even as minor as a misdemeanor), a lot of
           | international options are almost instantly axed at the visa
           | stage. Way before even getting to the "will the employer be
           | ok with my criminal record" stage.
        
           | felon1234567890 wrote:
           | EU let's you in. Canada will not though. I know from
           | experience.
        
         | icepat wrote:
         | You need a clean background to move to another country if
         | you're not a European. I specifically had to submit a Canadian
         | RCMP fingerprint based background check when I moved to
         | Iceland. EU nationals have it much easier, since the relocation
         | process in the EU does not require that level of scrutiny.
        
           | infamouscow wrote:
           | If you're in the US, cross the border into Mexico and re-
           | enter as an asylum seeker.
           | 
           | Until the idiots in charge change this (by enforcing the
           | existing laws), you should take maximum advantage of its
           | opportunities.
        
             | justsomeoldguy wrote:
             | could you explain this further? what benefit would there
             | be?
        
       | felon_in_texas wrote:
       | This is a "throwaway" account for obvious reasons.
       | 
       | I did some terrible things when I was 19 that I won't go into
       | details, but after working as a developer for a few years, served
       | a six-year sentence from 2003-2009.
       | 
       | Upon release, I leveraged some old contacts to get a bit of
       | contracting work. In time I found more contracting work, mostly
       | working for smaller companies on a 1099 basis. (direct, not
       | through a firm) In time a local contract turned into a job, and
       | I've been with the company since. I'm the lead developer and own
       | the entire stack, from the cloud to the front-end. I've made
       | myself very valuable to them, and earn an income that's well over
       | market (early on they offered me a percentage of profits as
       | compensation)
       | 
       | I still continue to do contracting on a small basis (small
       | companies tend to not bind you with onerous terms keeping you
       | from doing so). Some of them I've even found on HN.
       | 
       | Anything involving a background check is a no-go. Most
       | traditional employment situations, especially with "big"
       | companies is a no-go. Sometimes you have to hustle a bit more,
       | but honestly, I feel like owning your career with an
       | entrepreneurial mindset is something everyone can benefit from.
       | 
       | Most of my clients have no idea about my past. A few have
       | learned, but it didn't disqualify me. I was transparent when
       | asked.
        
         | justsomeoldguy wrote:
         | My job two jobs ago did start out with their eyes open. I was
         | up front about it and it was a question on the application. I
         | wasn't going to lie. They told me it wouldn't be a problem ....
         | and it wasn't. Until someone else found out and wasn't so non-
         | judgemental. that's kind of how this goes-- whoever I first
         | start working with, whoever is doing the hiring, whatever. I
         | get the green light. I get hired even. It's ... what happens
         | next.
         | 
         | You got new coworkers? A lot of people start digging. I don't
         | survive that digging.
         | 
         | Part of the problem is I went to prison for eight years. And I
         | am just a computer nerd with no criminal background, I've never
         | even had a parking ticket. I act like every other nerd in a dev
         | environment. I love hardware, I'm very passionate about
         | operating systems, making them run juust right.
         | 
         | Where it's a problem is when people look me up and are like,
         | holy cow this is a hardened criminal! but I act... so...
         | normal. and you wouldn't guess. it actually flips people out.
         | it feels like I'm lying about a whole lot of things suddenly. I
         | must be. I have to be. and it goes downhill from there.
         | Whatever trust I earned gets taken away because people are
         | judgmental and often not reasonable about that judgement.
        
           | felon_in_texas wrote:
           | I know it's a possibility, so all I can do is mitigate the
           | risk. I've intentionally focused on very small companies (<5
           | employees typically) where I almost always report to the top.
           | I put myself in positions where I'm not just rank and file,
           | but am essentially a hard dependency. Also in contracting
           | roles you're usually not around that long. It's tedious
           | finding work, but so is looking over your shoulder.
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | > This is a "throwaway" account for obvious reasons.
         | 
         | You should know that if you also have a non-throwaway account,
         | HN will unify your accounts in their backend records.
        
           | dnissley wrote:
           | Is there proof of this?
        
             | tomduncalf wrote:
             | Proof definitely needed. Honestly this doesn't sound like
             | something HN would have any interest in doing, they don't
             | serve ads or anything like that so why would they care?
        
               | bigbillheck wrote:
               | Ban evasion?
        
           | woodruffw wrote:
           | No, they don't do this. It's not even clear how they would;
           | the closest thing would be merging based on IP or
           | fingerprinting, but both are extremely noisy.
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | You can easily demonstrate to yourself that they do.
             | 
             | And the situation here is that felon_in_texas visits HN in
             | his usual manner, views a topic he wants to comment on,
             | creates an account on the spot, and leaves his comment. How
             | noisy do you think the IP identification can be?
        
               | arp242 wrote:
               | > You can easily demonstrate to yourself that they do.
               | 
               | How?
        
               | dnissley wrote:
               | How then? No need to be cagey
        
           | jcrites wrote:
           | It's fine to have multiple accounts on HN as long as you use
           | them with good judgment. I do. I have spoken with DanG about
           | this before and he seemed fine with it.
           | 
           | Yes, you should assume that the moderators will know, and you
           | should be fine with them knowing, because you're not using
           | the multiple accounts to escape moderation, but rather for
           | greater anonymity in the comment thread.
           | 
           | The rules that I follow, which I think are implicit in "use
           | good judgment":
           | 
           | 1. Don't vote on the same thing from multiple accounts.
           | 
           | 2. Don't participate in the same comment thread with multiple
           | accounts (or if you do, only separate parts of the thread).
           | Don't create a fake impression of consensus or have your
           | accounts interact with each other.
           | 
           | Those are probably the two big ones I would imagine.
           | 
           | Whether the accounts are actually tied together on the
           | backend, I don't know. I would suspect that they are not
           | automatically linked, but could probably be linked if the
           | moderators are investigating you for bad behavior (like
           | voting on the same thing with multiple accounts).
        
       | nope00 wrote:
       | Nov'22 is very recent, and won't be your experience forever. It's
       | been a little over 20 years for me. Now, I get background checked
       | every year. It doesn't show.
       | 
       | Initially I worked in food service and on phpfreelancer. I spun
       | that into consistent consulting work until a client offered a
       | full time position (less than 15 people, no background checks).
       | 
       | As the years rolled by, I kept moving around. Eventually I tried
       | at a large company(around 8 years ago) and nothing showed on the
       | background check.
       | 
       | I do NOT recommend being upfront, unless there are no formal
       | procedures in place and being honest actually helps. We are
       | talking about your ability to feed and shelter yourself, so give
       | up on the "honesty" thing. I have -never- been able to provide
       | for myself after having been "honest". [edit: after reading
       | felonintexas let me update this. If someone point blank asks,
       | tell them. Don't volunteer this information. There is nothing to
       | be gained]
       | 
       | Also, you are now an edge case. That means most advice doesn't
       | apply. This is both exciting and horribly anxiety driving at the
       | same time. You will have to become comfortable blazing your own
       | path and doing things others say is not possible.
       | 
       | Seriously, good luck. It is possible. It is amazing what you can
       | do that everyone else thinks can't be done.
        
         | tonetegeatinst wrote:
         | Not a felon but grew up with everyone telling us that colleges
         | would search our social media etc.
         | 
         | A friend told me that the 2 important rules to surviving
         | corporate environments is the following in no specific order.
         | 
         | 1. Never lie to someone, and own what you did. Wordsmithing is
         | a gray area but never lie, the reputation of not being truthful
         | can follow you for decades.
         | 
         | 2. Never volunteer information that isn't specifically asked
         | for. This isn't a free pass to not provide critical info when
         | your working on stuff like a project, but keep in mind that HR
         | always can dig up info when they want to fire you or not offer
         | you a job. Be honest and to the point, but don't volunteer info
         | that can put you in a bad spot.
         | 
         | TLDR: if they don't ask, don't tell. But if they ask, be honest
        
           | bfuller wrote:
           | tell the truth, but don't always be telling it
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | > [edit: after reading felonintexas let me update this. If
         | someone point blank asks, tell them. Don't volunteer this
         | information. There is nothing to be gained]
         | 
         | My Fraternity's cook, when I was in college, was a former
         | fellon. He worked for us for a few years before he told me
         | about his background.
         | 
         | I don't remember the details, but we had a conversation where
         | he mentioned he had experience in IT. Eventually he very
         | briefly mentioned some high level details about his criminal
         | record when the conversation drifted around "so if you were
         | making big bucks, why are you now cooking for us?"
         | 
         | I personally appreciate that he warned me about the
         | consequences of the super-illegal (but "grey morality") thing
         | he did. But, I must agree, it's best to keep things like a
         | record quiet as long as possible.
         | 
         | I don't know if other fraternity brothers knew about his
         | background. It seems like the kind of thing that would be kept
         | quiet until someone started veering into the super-illegal (but
         | "grey morality") area that got our cook in trouble.
        
       | realmike33 wrote:
       | I do a lot of non profit work with the formerly incarcerated.
       | Here are some resources I hope helps you out:
       | 
       | https://jailstojobs.org/second-chance-employers-network/
       | 
       | https://www.centerforworkforceinclusion.org/our-work/formerl...
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | Not sure if you have linkedin or anything but I'd like to stay
       | connected
        
         | publicprivacy wrote:
         | https://www.linkedin.com/in/saunderscaleb/
        
       | publicprivacy wrote:
       | My linkedin if anyone has career opportunities or wants to talk:
       | 
       | https://www.linkedin.com/in/saunderscaleb/
        
       | SillyUsername wrote:
       | Tldr; I made a possible career ending move (see p.p.s below main
       | comment), here's what I did to fix it and end up in successful
       | employment again.
       | 
       | Not the same but I was sacked during a probation period because I
       | refused to give my proof of ID details a 5th time to the HR, the
       | same 3 pieces requested multiple times or lost. I told them to
       | reuse those I uploaded a day or two earlier.
       | 
       | HR dismissed me after a single warning to give them by my line
       | manager, and in dismissal point blank refused to say why (in
       | probation in the UK they have no legal requirement to tell you).
       | Obviously I cannot say HR at xyz company were incompetent and I
       | was the scape goat.
       | 
       | What I did say in my next interview was what I learnt during my
       | probation there, they needed somebody with more SQL/database
       | skills. I had them as a senior developer, but I deliberately
       | pushed back as it wasn't what I was hired for. In the interview I
       | simply said I was "let go because I _believe_ they wanted
       | somebody more database oriented and that was not what I wanted to
       | do " with the emphasis I was being hired at the new place as a
       | developer not as a database specialist. That was therefore not my
       | error and it's justifiable to want to do work you were hired for,
       | they didn't give me an actual dismissal reason, and based on what
       | I was told day to day could have been true.
       | 
       | It also helped that I completed a 2 month project (for the sacked
       | from place) without any flaws in 3 weeks (yes they were average
       | developers there at best).
       | 
       | The point being, distract and do not linger, use the disadvantage
       | and stuff that is positive to your advantage, make no excuses
       | because that validates their (any) misconception.
       | 
       | I would:
       | 
       | - Prep and learn as many responses for awkward questions that you
       | can think of.
       | 
       | - Find relatable ways to justify the offence, but make sure you
       | show it's been apologised for (it broke the law but anybody could
       | fall into that trap). This may not be 100% coverable because
       | perhaps it's unrelatable, but people wouldn't invite you to
       | interview unless they thought you had or can redeem yourself. So
       | for example, you mentioned drugs, I've not done them but I have
       | done stupid things when drunk, so I can at least understand your
       | position/state of mind.
       | 
       | - Find ways to (importantly, indirectly, don't dodge because
       | being evasive will work against you) bring the topic back to
       | accomplishments at the previous role (the one you were let go
       | from). E.g 'I apologised to the official and the staff I worked
       | with before I left, although shocked they thanked me for my hard
       | work on xyz (a project that I believe went live with great
       | success a month later)".
       | 
       | In the last point you leave that open because it's a distraction
       | point, it's not you saying "despite what happened, I did loads of
       | good work like xyz" (which is misconception validation, direct
       | topic changing -evasive- and now requires further detail on your
       | part which blocks them talking -they may feel they're not getting
       | answers).
       | 
       | I did this approach on my follow up interview and got the
       | position.
       | 
       | At the end of the day it's about owning the mistake, learning and
       | no longer apologising (because perhaps you have already done
       | that).
       | 
       | It ultimately also gives you real life street cred as a secops
       | guy, i.e. you've can relate to a criminal element, although I'm
       | uncertain if you could turn that into a positive - if you found
       | out new stuff behind bars well that's a win - that could at least
       | be an anecdote based on how relaxed/personable the interviewers
       | are (e.g. if one tries to put you at ease by saying they did
       | time).
       | 
       | Final point, don't rely on recruiters, use LinkedIn directly.
       | Recruiters have a pool of people you join who they often field
       | one at a time, you will be in a queue possibly at the back
       | because the recruiter wants the best chance at getting a win with
       | the least hassle when fighting against candidates from other
       | recruiters. Unless you have a stand out skill they may secretly
       | bias against you _and there 's no way of knowing_.
       | 
       | P.s. also refer to yourself as ex-felon, it's reinforcing that
       | you're over it.
       | 
       | P.p.s somebody down voted me, don't know why since if anybody has
       | ever been sacked for refusing to give ID you should know you're
       | basically shooting yourself in the head if the word gets between
       | HR departments that you won't identify yourself during reference
       | checking, potentially career killing.
        
         | bigbillheck wrote:
         | > Not the same but I was sacked during a probation period
         | because I refused to give my proof of ID details a 5th time to
         | the HR, the same 3 pieces requested multiple times or lost. I
         | told them to reuse those I uploaded a day or two earlier.
         | 
         | That's no way to survive a career (as you found out). That's
         | the kind of thing you use to build team camaraderie, after the
         | 3rd time or so start posting about it in the team chat, if
         | you're in an office put up a little sign saying "it has been ##
         | days since I was asked for my ID", play along with any jokes
         | about it, that sort of thing. And also politely ask your
         | manager what's going on, and if that's normal, and send a
         | polite email to the HR manager.
         | 
         | I get that it's a nuisance, but surely it couldn't have been
         | more than a few minutes out of your day every time (and getting
         | faster with repetition, right?).
         | 
         | > (yes they were average developers there at best)
         | 
         | Sour grapes?
        
       | dang wrote:
       | There used to be a YC startup dedicated to this, which
       | unfortunately no longer exists. I don't know the backstory on
       | that, but I do remember that there was quite a large Launch HN
       | thread:
       | 
       |  _Launch HN: 70MillionJobs (YC S17) - Job board for people with
       | criminal records_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14911467
       | - Aug 2017 (506 comments)
       | 
       | I link it here in case there might still be useful information or
       | tips in those comments. If there are other related threads, we
       | can list them here too.
        
       | RajT88 wrote:
       | Contract work is a good option for when you have any kind of
       | black mark that recruiters are going to skip over you for.
       | 
       | I see a lot of people who got laid off / fired who ended up with
       | the dreaded "Resume Gap", and it's very common to spin up your
       | own consulting/contracting firm. That way - you can claim you
       | were self-employed, and there's no obvious resume gap.
       | 
       | I'm sure it doesn't fool all the recruiters, but it's got to fool
       | a lot of them who are lazy and suck at recruiting.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | Just curious how felony assault is not a physical violence
       | offense. I understand there could be differences in state laws,
       | but most felony assault charges require use of force wither
       | resulting in an injury or involving a weapon.
        
         | wolverine876 wrote:
         | It may depend on jurisdiction, but often assault is a threat,
         | assault and battery is violence.
        
           | mkl wrote:
           | Yes. https://quinnanlaw.com/criminal-defense/assault-versus-
           | batte...
        
           | silisili wrote:
           | Definitely jurisdiction dependent. I know at least some
           | states combine them both under 'assault.'
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | I get that. However, to reach felony status it usually has to
           | involve a weapon, or protected class of person even if
           | battery is considered separate. That's why I was curious.
        
       | felon1234567890 wrote:
       | I have a felony dui from 2010. No deaths, injuries or crashes or
       | anything like that just found myself over the limit a few times
       | in the days before lyft/uber.
       | 
       | I had to focus on jobs with small companies that did no checks.
       | There were so many times I declined jobs when I saw the
       | background check just to avoid the shame. It's a waiting game
       | until it falls off the threshold of places caring.
       | 
       | Eventually I got a job as a federal contractor working with semi
       | sensitive metadata. I didn't need a clearance but had to get a
       | public trust. Was still grilled by DIA trying to determine if i
       | could be compromised. I am so glad I don't have to check the box
       | anymore and have stayed out of trouble. 2 months of jail, 3 years
       | of probation and another 10 years of shame. Good riddance. Today
       | I make 170k as one of the main senior engineers. Good luck!
       | 
       | Ps some states have laws against asking if you're a felon. Cali
       | and Colo might be 2. Look into remote jobs in those states after
       | researching that.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | Start an LLC if allowed in your state. Work under the LLC or work
       | as a 1099. Less chance of employers looking you up if not a W2
       | employee. Select small companies to work for, or even work for
       | yourself.
       | 
       | My wife had a misdemeanor that was eventually expunged and this
       | seems to work.
        
         | justsomeoldguy wrote:
         | I think you're missing just how nosy people are these days. If
         | you have a name and it traces back to your case (like mine)
         | then that kind of obfuscation is just not going to work. It
         | hasn't yet.
        
           | linuxftw wrote:
           | Start going by your middle name professionally.
        
             | justsomeoldguy wrote:
             | yeah. but my last name is very unique and there are only
             | five of us in the country. none my age.
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | Worked for my wife less than 10 years ago. Just saying.
        
       | mynameisnoone wrote:
       | (Throwaway)
       | 
       | Defending yourself against a group of 5 assailants who assault
       | you and appear intent on causing you great bodily harm, even if
       | battery to you is stopped, no one was injured, and you use no
       | force in excess of defense, in the current political environment,
       | it will result in a maliciously prosecuted assault charge if they
       | happen to be PoC and you happen to be a white man leading to:
       | 
       | - Stress and uncertainty for months to years
       | 
       | - Legal costs between $15k and $50k
       | 
       | - Loss of rental housing
       | 
       | - Moving costs, say $6k
       | 
       | - An inability to be hired by a major corporation because of
       | background checks until after the charge is expunged (another $5k
       | in legal costs and many more months of uncertainty)
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | I hold the Scandinavian view, that after 20 years, a person can
       | be very different, especially if they had a rough childhood. The
       | US is organized around punitive prosecution and maximizing
       | carceral suffering, has a net average problem with over-
       | prosecuting PoC, a very high incarceration rate, over-prosecuting
       | some crimes that aren't there, and not prosecuting thieves and
       | vandals enough. There also isn't enough community engagement, de-
       | escalation intervention, counseling, and diversion from the
       | school-to-prison pipeline to care about people on a troubled
       | path.
        
       | schizo89 wrote:
       | I've been released 2 years ago and no I've been unable to find a
       | gig. No one would reply lol. I m doing open source projects, ai
       | and indie games. I've got more stress Cred than before. I think
       | getting back to Normie workforce in police state such as us is
       | impossible. Peace man
        
         | justsomeoldguy wrote:
         | it really sucks. If I had known I'd lose my jobs the way I did
         | each time, I would never have applied to begin with. it was
         | really traumatic each time, and very sudden. it PTSD'd me, not
         | that I have any shortage of that. But just the way everyone
         | gets when you go from "everyone knows you and respects you and
         | likes you" and suddenly it's ... uhh ohh. everyone being quiet.
         | is this... again?
         | 
         | yes. yes it was. and I just can't do that anymore. that isn't
         | living, it's dying.
        
           | schizo89 wrote:
           | Lol what are you talking about?
           | 
           | If you have something to eat and a working pc and stable
           | internet connection you can make the way. That's a hard
           | lessons learnt in startup years. It's the same
        
       | schizo89 wrote:
       | Well I think best move would be staring a trade union in discord,
       | to aid eath other. We strong in unity.
        
       | eli wrote:
       | Sounds like you're in California. I'd start by making sure you
       | know your rights under their "Ban the Box" laws.
       | 
       | In general I don't think an employer can ask about or consider a
       | prior conviction until after they've made a conditional offer.
        
         | justsomeoldguy wrote:
         | they do not honor those, sorry. they ask anyways. and if you
         | wanna put up a fight with HR about why they're asking when they
         | can't, you are already fired before you've been hired.
        
           | eli wrote:
           | Fight with HR? No, they are breaking the law.
           | 
           | You should talk to an employment lawyer. You could
           | potentially get a cash settlement, force them to consider
           | your application, or an injunction that would force them to
           | treat future applicants better. Could also file a complaint
           | with the state and they will investigate on your behalf. Good
           | lawyer can advise you of options though.
        
       | system2 wrote:
       | In the United States if you start your own IT company and sell
       | your services to your clients there won't be any questioning who
       | you are or where you even studied. As long as you solve the
       | business problems they will pay you greatly.
       | 
       | If it is a matter of survival, I'd pick this route. You can
       | easily make 6 figures or even 7 figures within a few years. You
       | do not need to find a full-time job at a fancy company.
       | 
       | Long story short, nobody needs to know your past as long as you
       | know how to fix computers and handle network systems.
        
         | Ckirby wrote:
         | Yeah, this is a fairly sensible answer
         | 
         | start a private LLC and subcontract the work to yourself
        
       | throwawaymypot wrote:
       | (Throw away account for obvious reasons)
       | 
       | I experienced this. Due to various undiagnosed mental health
       | issues I ended up with a serious record in the UK - a total of 15
       | charges, all computer related.
       | 
       | Due to the clear lack of malicious intent I didn't serve any
       | time, but did get shackled with: 12 months suspended for 12
       | months; 10 years on the sex offenders register; 7 years sexual
       | harm prevention order; and 5 years of something else I can't
       | remember.
       | 
       | Every computer I touch - whilst in the UK - should have
       | "monitoring" software installed, which pretty much ruled out any
       | office job, let alone tech.
       | 
       | So after 2 failed suicide attempts and a stay in hospital I
       | decided to completely reinvent myself and start from scratch.
       | Time to hit the big reset button. Legally I have to reveal my
       | convictions ahead of signing a contract in the UK. I got frog-
       | marched out of several buildings by security after the interviews
       | were terminated immediately when I revealed my convictions. I was
       | basically unemployable in the UK and decided to leave and never
       | return. Even after the 10 years is up I am still required to
       | declare "spent convictions" for 5/6 years. This would take me
       | close to my 50th birthday until I no longer have to say anything
       | - 15 years from conviction date.
       | 
       | It took 1 year to "create" a new identity, including complete
       | change of name, severing any connection with friends, and faking
       | an employment history.
       | 
       | I moved abroad with my new identity and hoped for the best... and
       | so far have had an incredibly successful career (post-
       | conviction), and the one thing which has driven me is being good
       | enough that IF my employer learns of my past, they will weigh up
       | what I offer them vs. what I have done in my past.
       | 
       | I remain forever optimistic because _I have to_ . There is no
       | other option.
        
         | tinktank wrote:
         | Sorry to hear all of this. Did you end up in Europe or did you
         | have to go further?
        
         | bigbillheck wrote:
         | > Due to the clear lack of malicious intent I didn't serve any
         | time, but did get shackled with: 12 months suspended for 12
         | months; 10 years on the sex offenders register; 7 years sexual
         | harm prevention order; and 5 years of something else I can't
         | remember.
         | 
         | What did you actually do, and what did they get you for?
        
           | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
           | I'm okay not knowing the details. I'm not reacting to you or
           | the parent here. I'm just weary of society being compulsively
           | hostile toward redemption. Let the past be there.
        
       | fell_on_knee wrote:
       | Clicked on this expecting the guy who repeatedly flashed his dick
       | at teenage girls, got caught, prosecuted and jailed, twice,
       | several years apart, and now posts on HN begging for employment
       | help every few months, while trying to hide what he did.
       | 
       | I was relieved to see your charges are basically nothing compared
       | to his. You'll be fine but be up front with recruiters about your
       | felony. For the right candidate, they'll work around it.
        
       | SeattleAltruist wrote:
       | There's a great program for currently and recently released
       | incarcerated: https://www.prisonscholars.org/what-we-do/our-work-
       | impact/
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | FWIW I would not hesitate to hire a felon if they were talented.
       | Smaller companies and startups won't really have a problem here.
       | Larger companies doing background checks might - but then again
       | they might not. TBH I would use this opportunity to help find an
       | even better match. If a company is going to blindly say no to
       | you, they are probably not worth working at. Unless of course
       | they have some kind of legal issues where they are barred from
       | having a felon on their team.
        
       | kypro wrote:
       | I know this is a controversial view, but I think employers should
       | not be allowed to run background checks unless important for the
       | role (government work, access to children, etc) and where it is
       | important for the role it should only return the criminal
       | convictions that might be relevant to the role.
       | 
       | If you were arrested for robbery when you were younger perhaps
       | because you had a drug addiction then that person should have a
       | right to serve their time and change their ways later in life
       | without the state holding and distributing that to any potential
       | employer, practically ensuring that individual is unemployable
       | for a mistake they made in their youth.
       | 
       | The reason I think this is not a good assumption to assume that
       | someone will be a bad employee simply because they did something
       | criminal in their past. There are terrible employees out there
       | who don't break the law. If we're so concerned about employers
       | hiring bad employees then state should instead build a
       | centralised database of bad employees and their reason for
       | termination at previous places of work. I'd argue this would be
       | more effective if we're concerned an employer might hire a bad
       | employee.
       | 
       | Secondly, making it difficult for those who have committed crimes
       | to get back into the workforce increases their risk of
       | reoffending. Having a good job and a nice life to lose is a great
       | reason to not commit crimes while having nothing to live for is a
       | great excuse to do whatever feels right in the moment.
       | 
       | Best of luck op. If I was an employer I'd consider you if you had
       | the skills and seemed like you could do the job. I have no idea
       | why your past would be relevant to your ability to work outside
       | of select roles.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2024-01-03 23:00 UTC)