[HN Gopher] Porsche Design System v3
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       Porsche Design System v3
        
       Author : MarlonPro
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2024-01-03 18:35 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (designsystem.porsche.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (designsystem.porsche.com)
        
       | JamesCoyne wrote:
       | kinda discussed here previously
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38244149
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Thanks! Macroexpanded:
         | 
         |  _Porsche Open Source Platform_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38244149 - Nov 2023 (144
         | comments)
        
       | turtlebits wrote:
       | Slightly confusing if it's coming from "Porsche" or "Porsche
       | Design" (https://www.porsche-design.com/).
        
         | ComputerGuru wrote:
         | Which is why HN always makes the domain visible ;)
        
       | letwhile wrote:
       | The linked documentation page has an objectively bad design. Not
       | bad bad, but really confusing.
        
       | gumballindie wrote:
       | > Everything is built and tested following the Porsche quality
       | standards and corporate design principles.
       | 
       | Hope it's more reliable than their cars.
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | I would expect it to be completely independent, because it's
         | not likely IMO that the web app team(s) have anything to do
         | with actual cars.
        
         | supportengineer wrote:
         | The last time I checked Consumer Reports, Porsche was actually
         | on the list of reliable used cars.
        
           | gumballindie wrote:
           | Until panels start falling off and various axles break under
           | pressure. In Europe they wouldnt even make a recall until
           | years after they've been sued in the US.
           | 
           | In the UK ranks as the least reliable brand:
           | https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/porsche-named-least-
           | reliable-...
           | 
           | A common trend with german carmakers in recent years. Not
           | good for Europe as a whole.
        
             | dubcanada wrote:
             | Do you have any details on what Warrentywise uses for their
             | data? The data seems to suggest all of the "cheap" cars are
             | more reliable then all of the "expensive" cars. Which is
             | just wrong, if anything it's a spread of cheap/expensive on
             | top and cheap/expensive on bottom.
             | 
             | That data seems to imply there is perhaps another reason
             | for the rankings then what is to be assumed.
        
               | gumballindie wrote:
               | They do include the cost to repair among other things,
               | which means that only do they break often, they also cost
               | a lot to fix. Cheap brands on the other hand when they do
               | break down are either fixed by the manufacturer for free
               | or dont break as often. German cars are infamous for the
               | high number of defects that their manufacturers wont
               | issue recalls for. Therefore the ranking is accurate.
        
               | lacksconfidence wrote:
               | It still feels a bit off. I expect an expensive car to
               | have expensive repairs. When looking at the cost of a
               | repair I would perhaps consider the cost as a proportion
               | of the MSRP, or resale value, not the raw cost.
        
               | mikeryan wrote:
               | Warrantywise does aftermarket extended warranties in the
               | UK.
               | 
               | I can't say _how_ but it seems to me that may have an
               | influence on their data.
        
           | eagerpace wrote:
           | cant repair modern ones diy anymore with everything requiring
           | dealer programming. Not that it's unique, but I understand
           | they're on the bleeding edge of what all parts require
           | dealers to replace.
        
         | dubcanada wrote:
         | They have a better reliability rating then most other car
         | companies according to JD Power. Not perfect, but average
         | around 85% for the few models I checked. Perhaps the opinion is
         | anecdotal but I have not heard nor experienced any issues
         | myself.
        
         | vpribish wrote:
         | their cars have a very good reputation for reliability
        
           | gumballindie wrote:
           | Yeah, among people that never owned one.
        
             | xcv123 wrote:
             | Compared to what? A Toyota Corolla? Higher performance
             | requires higher maintenance for any brand. In motorsport
             | you will be frequently replacing parts as they are pushed
             | to the limit.
             | 
             | Compare a Porsche 911 versus Corolla on a track and see
             | which one is actually more reliable after 20 hard laps.
        
               | gumballindie wrote:
               | Most people dont drive these cars on tracks. They drive
               | them in cities and motorways, which in Europe force you
               | to drive the same way you'd drive a Corolla. It's not
               | just mechanics that lack. Plastics come off and have
               | nothing to do with track driving. The spyder or the 981
               | equally suffer from roofs and door panels simply
               | ungluing. Mechanics are as bad as the Cayenne's engine
               | blows up just by looking at it. All in all the myth is
               | gone, these cars are not what used to be. Well the
               | porschea boxster and cayman were infamous for ims issues,
               | oil leaks, and various other non essential mechanics
               | failing. Marketing is one thing, real life is another.
        
               | dash2 wrote:
               | > They drive them in cities and motorways, which in
               | Europe force you to drive the same way you'd drive a
               | Corolla.
               | 
               | Expand, I'm interested. I mean, my thought would be,
               | Germany is the land of the no-speed-limit autobahn, the
               | US was 55 everywhere until recently.
        
               | pi-e-sigma wrote:
               | But realistically it doesn't mean that an average Porsche
               | owner does nothing but speeding on Autobahns. Similarly
               | lots of people in the US drive pickups but only a tiny
               | portion of them actually use them the way they were meant
               | to be used
        
               | UniverseHacker wrote:
               | A performance car doesn't magically get reliable just
               | because you drive it slow- usually the opposite actually,
               | you get carbon buildup issues, timing chain wear issues,
               | etc. if a motor engineered for high RPM reliability is
               | driven gently, or worse, lugged frequently at low RPMs.
               | 
               | I mentioned IMS issues elsewhere in this thread, but I
               | think you're also being disingenuous with the Cayenne.
               | 
               | The Cayenne is a pretty darn impressive vehicle- a full
               | sized SUV that handles well enough to be fun on a race
               | track, and yet also does incredible offroad. It has a lot
               | of engine options, and while some of the earlier high
               | performance V8 engine options had issues, most of them
               | are very reliable. It does pay for all of that
               | performance and capability by being pretty complex, but
               | it's also very well built. As the older Cayennes have
               | become cheap, there's a big following now of people doing
               | serious offroading in them, and the suspension, body, and
               | interiors really hold up well to hard offroad use.
               | 
               | I would say Porsche engines tend to have new design flaws
               | when they do a ground up engine redesign cycle, because
               | they are really pushing the limits with new ideas and
               | tech, and they get reliable again after a few years. Most
               | other car companies pretty much avoid doing that, or
               | doing it as often, because they aren't trying to extract
               | as much performance.
        
               | UniverseHacker wrote:
               | Exactly... you can't compare the reliability of a street
               | legal track ready race car with a cheap economy car.
               | Compared to other exotic cars with similar performance,
               | the longevity and reliability of Porsche is unequaled...
               | and with proper maintenance they handle decades of hard
               | driving.
        
               | rozap wrote:
               | Counterpoint: Porsches are notoriously horrible in 24
               | hours of lemons. These are mostly 924, 944 and boxsters.
               | 
               | For 18+ hours of w2w racing I'd take the Corolla.
               | 
               | In any case, apples and oranges. Porsche seems to build
               | reliable stuff compared to their actual competitors which
               | are Ferrari, Lotus, etc etc. Toyota comparisons are
               | meaningless.
        
               | xcv123 wrote:
               | > Porsche seems to build reliable stuff compared to their
               | actual competitors which are Ferrari, Lotus, etc etc.
               | Toyota comparisons are meaningless.
               | 
               | That was my point
        
               | rozap wrote:
               | > Compare a Porsche 911 versus Corolla on a track and see
               | which one is actually more reliable after 20 hard laps.
               | 
               | This is what I read. I'd still put money on the Toyota if
               | the test is not blowing up.
        
         | UniverseHacker wrote:
         | They are pretty darn reliable cars when you consider how much
         | performance they squeeze out of them, and how uncompromising
         | the driving experience is. Moreover, that they can handle being
         | driven HARD day in and day out for decades and stay reliable-
         | something really no other car make can do.
         | 
         | I bought an old Porsche Boxster for cheap on Craigslist and
         | commute daily with no breakdowns for the last 3 years... it's
         | not a Toyota- it's reliable because I spend A LOT of my free
         | time doing preventative maintenance on it. While it requires a
         | lot of maintenance, a cheap economy car would be toast in a few
         | days if driven as hard as I drive this thing. Yet in stock form
         | I could take it to the track and keep up with crazy unreliable
         | exotic supercars that cost 30x what I paid for it.
        
           | joshu wrote:
           | IMS bearing??
        
             | UniverseHacker wrote:
             | IMS issues are way overblown, failures are actually fairly
             | rare, and permanently fixed by swapping out the bearing
             | when you do the clutch, which is easy to do and doesn't
             | cost much. Mine already had an LN Engineering retrofit kit
             | when I got it, as do most of the used cars I've seen for
             | sale.... but I've sometimes seen them with 200-300k miles
             | on the original IMS as well.
             | 
             | My main issue with the early watercooled flat 6 Porsche
             | engines is that they are just so complex and costly to
             | rebuild. They will easily last several hundred thousand
             | miles of hard use, but when they do need a rebuild, doing
             | it properly can easily cost $10k just for materials to
             | rebuild it yourself properly.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | That issue, while valid, has one of the highest ratios of
             | "talked about on the forums divided by frequency of
             | occurrence". If I had a 1997-2005 affected engine, I don't
             | think I'd do the preventative maintenance work proactively
             | until it came time to replace a clutch anyway.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | (2023)
        
       | KevinMS wrote:
       | auto manufacturer websites are always among the worst designed on
       | the internet. menus, tabs, side scrollers, etc. Its a website
       | with a limited number of products guys, just use pages and links.
        
         | mschild wrote:
         | I generally agree but on mobile, Porsche.com is surprisingly
         | nice to use.
        
       | supertron wrote:
       | Link to the GitHub repo:
       | 
       | https://github.com/porsche-design-system/porsche-design-syst...
       | 
       | (It's a bit hidden when viewing this page on mobile)
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-03 23:02 UTC)