[HN Gopher] Almost half of British teens feel addicted to social...
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       Almost half of British teens feel addicted to social media - study
        
       Author : marban
       Score  : 94 points
       Date   : 2024-01-03 14:17 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | brohoolio wrote:
       | I'm sure they are. What's the screentime per day for the cohort?
       | 2 hours? 4 hours? 8 hours?
        
       | itslennysfault wrote:
       | ...and the other half lied or are in denial.
        
       | andy_ppp wrote:
       | Can we switch social media off for 8 hours per day, 9-5pm maybe.
       | I think it would make everyone happier and I bet nobody would
       | miss it.
        
         | tempest_ wrote:
         | I remember when stores used to be closed on Sundays.
         | 
         | We can close social media on Sundays and reopen monday morning
         | aha
        
           | ben_w wrote:
           | Sunday shopping ban was part of my culture shock moving to
           | Berlin.
           | 
           | The calmness of the city outweighs the mild and easily
           | planned-around inconvenience.
        
             | saiya-jin wrote:
             | Not everybody needs to live in big cities, the calm you
             | like so much can be obtained outside instantly, any day,
             | every day.
             | 
             | Plus sometimes when actually having a life maybe other days
             | are fully taken doing something important, so its nice to
             | have it as an option. The societies that have Sunday
             | shopping that I ever visited didn't experience any kind of
             | shopping frenzy during it, everything is scaled down, some
             | shops are opened shortly, some are not at all (or some
             | close on Monday instead).
             | 
             | That is all said as an European who knows very well what
             | you mean, from various angles
        
               | tempest_ wrote:
               | The flip side is retail workers get worked to death.
               | 
               | Around here the only day retail is closed is Dec 25,
               | every other day is open.
               | 
               | I have not worked in retail for so long, maybe they
               | prefer the opportunity to make more money I don't know.
               | 
               | It would not really change anything for me.
        
         | lawlessone wrote:
         | >9-5pm maybe
         | 
         | i feel like that would just be convenient for work and nobody
         | else.
        
           | andy_ppp wrote:
           | I'm not saying the proposal is finalised or even marginally
           | thought through. But neither is everyone being horrifyingly
           | distracted by social media.
        
         | twiclo wrote:
         | That's a great idea. Utah thinks so too. Well, at least between
         | 10:30 PM to 6:30 AM
         | 
         | https://le.utah.gov/xcode/Title13/Chapter63/13-63-S105.html?...
        
           | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
           | It's only for minors. I think that's an important note.
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | I would miss it. I would also make it a matter of principle to
         | refuse if someone tried to force a shutdown on us - I've got my
         | Mastodon and Lemmy instances, and if we were to have to go
         | underground, we'd go underground.
        
           | andy_ppp wrote:
           | I am actually not convinced the people chatting on Mastodon
           | or Discord are addicted in the same way as YouTube and
           | Twitter.
           | 
           | How about this instead, no algorithmic feeds for any 8 hours
           | of the day you choose, so if you want a more peaceful evening
           | you select 7pm-3am and your feed is just people you follow
           | ordered by when they first posted.
        
             | vidarh wrote:
             | No thanks. No way. I'm working on adding algorithmic feeds
             | to my Mastodon instance because it's _the biggest_ issue I
             | have with Mastodon. It 's also making me _spend more time_
             | because I have to scroll through a bunch of stuff I have no
             | interest in to see the stuff I want to see.
             | 
             | Put another way: To me, your statement boils down to
             | telling me I should be less social. These kinds of places
             | are the social contact I grew up with - starting with BBS's
             | in the early 90's onwards - and where I've met and keep in
             | touch with most of the people I know.
             | 
             | I have no problem accepting some people have problems
             | controlling their social media use, but at the same time to
             | me talking about limiting or shutting it down is about as
             | authoritarian and restrictive as enforcing curfew. In fact,
             | _more so_ - it 'd affect me more negatively than being
             | forcibly locked in my own house 8 hours a day.
        
         | adhesive_wombat wrote:
         | LeechBlock on Firefox has timed blocks. It works on Android and
         | desktop.
         | 
         | Delete the apps, use the websites.
        
         | SirMaster wrote:
         | Plenty of people use it responsibly. Why should they be
         | punished just because some people can't seem to control their
         | behavior?
        
           | andy_ppp wrote:
           | That's good because a quick poll where I am everyone says
           | they would like to reduce social media usage!
        
             | saiya-jin wrote:
             | A good character building experience then, for free - try
             | all of ya putting down phone for an hour a day. Next time
             | even 2. Everybody knows the trivial steps leading to it,
             | but will bullshit around it for 2 hours just to avoid it.
             | Brave ones block the app. But real hardcore mode is simply
             | uninstalling given app.
             | 
             | The day I removed all FB apps (FB, messenger) was the
             | happiest phone-owning day for me since getting it for the
             | first time.
        
             | SirMaster wrote:
             | I think we should encourage healthier social media
             | practices. Forcing people feels more like a band-aid rather
             | than a proper fix.
             | 
             | I don't think the problem is social media, I think the
             | problem is people honestly.
        
         | cjs_ac wrote:
         | Would this be the same 8 hours for everyone worldwide, would it
         | be by the user's timezone, or would we get to choose our own 8
         | hours?
         | 
         | This question was brought to you by memories of not being able
         | to set the timezone of my tamagotchi and it subsequently dying
         | because it was awake when I was asleep.
        
         | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
         | Nah bro. What about, for example, people who happen to be busy
         | during all but the hours you select for the shutdown. Since
         | it's forced, they effectively just don't get to use it at all.
         | In my opinion though, social media can be used in a productive
         | way in moderation, like how a lot of people use it to keep up
         | with the news or stay in touch with family.
        
       | reedf1 wrote:
       | When did we lose the moral authority to make things illegal for
       | minors? I believe in 50-100 years it will be a worldwide scandal
       | that these skinner boxes were ever given to children let alone
       | adults. AI optimised attention slideshow that likely drains you
       | neurochemically and disrupts your reward circuitry the same way
       | heroin or ecstasy does? On paper this shit should clearly be
       | regulated.
        
         | ethanbond wrote:
         | One contributing factor is the surprisingly recent meme that
         | corporations exist solely for the benefit of their
         | shareholders. It's a totally ahistoric and obviously antisocial
         | meme that gets repeated like it's gospel, even by otherwise
         | intelligent people. This perspective should be literally
         | laughed at and made fun of as a moral system suitable only for
         | the greediest and most myopic among us.
        
           | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
           | Isn't it an inevitable part of Capitalism though? If the
           | directors of a corporation start acting to not maximise the
           | shareholders profits, they'll soon be replaced or the
           | corporation bought out by more ruthless/sociopathic people.
        
             | ethanbond wrote:
             | The emergence of this idea definitely is guaranteed, but
             | the dominance of it isn't. There are many countervailing
             | forces that can and should be used, including regulation.
             | One of the forces that I'm advocating for, as I believe it
             | is undervalued and underutilized, is pushback at the
             | cultural level. It is absolutely possible to build truly
             | thriving businesses that include more stakeholders than
             | just shareholders. Costco is a canonical large cap example,
             | but of course there are millions of small businesses who
             | serve their communities much more holistically.
        
               | jl6 wrote:
               | What is special about Costco?
        
             | nonameiguess wrote:
             | There are plenty of examples of companies that have stayed
             | in business for a very long time while being focused on
             | something other than maximizing profits, whether that be
             | prestige, quality, treating employees and customers
             | reasonably well, promoting particular values. In N' Out,
             | Hobby Lobby, Costco, Ferrari, A24. Not saying they're
             | paragons of virtue, but they have missions other than "get
             | as rich as possible" and this hasn't driven them to
             | extinction. Presumably, over some long enough span of time,
             | you need to at least not lose money to stay in business,
             | but money doesn't need to be your only objective.
        
             | reducesuffering wrote:
             | You only have to maximize shareholders' profits better than
             | the next best CEO, they have no other option. No one is
             | firing Tim Cook because he made a choice that reduced
             | profits 1%.
        
           | cj wrote:
           | Interesting article on this topic:
           | 
           | https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2019/02/11/towards-
           | accountab...
        
             | ethanbond wrote:
             | Very interesting indeed! Thank you for sharing.
        
         | tenebrisalietum wrote:
         | Overdramatic. Social media may be bad but it is not like heroin
         | or ecstasy.
         | 
         | Engaging in moral panics, on the other hand, seems to provide a
         | high to some individuals just like heroin or ecstasy. Let's
         | regulate them instead.
        
           | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
           | There's already evidence of the harm caused to teenagers'
           | self esteem due to endless comparisons with peers over social
           | media. This leads to many types of mental illness such as
           | depression, anxiety, eating disorders etc. Considering that
           | we're exposing almost the entire teenage population to these
           | harmful effects, it's hardly overdramatic.
        
             | tenebrisalietum wrote:
             | Heroin physically alters brain chemistry. It's worse.
        
               | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
               | Mental illnesses also physically alter brain chemistry
               | and anorexia is arguably far more damaging than heroin.
               | Someone can remain addicted to heroin/opiates for decades
               | whilst still being part of society (it tends to be either
               | impurities or inconsistent quality of heroin that causes
               | deaths). It's unlikely that someone will continue
               | suffering from anorexia for a decade.
        
               | tenebrisalietum wrote:
               | A conclusion that could be drawn from your statements is
               | this: it's more okay for teenagers to use heroin instead
               | of social media because it's safer.
               | 
               | I think people and especially teenagers, even
               | "chronically-online" depressed ones on social media,
               | would laugh at this. They're wrong to do so, of course.
        
               | red-iron-pine wrote:
               | heroin isn't readily available to 10 year olds the way
               | tiktok is.
               | 
               | brains rewired from youth by apps that have been
               | unquestionably designed to demand engagement.
        
           | reedf1 wrote:
           | Are there no valid moral panics? Are you a moral anti-
           | realist?
        
             | tenebrisalietum wrote:
             | Panic is uncontrolled activity done in response to a
             | threat. If any productive action happens in a panic, it is
             | by chance. Chance, therefore, moral panic is a poor way to
             | actually solve a problem or improve ones life.
             | Opportunistic entites may utilize moral panic toward
             | political goals in the same way as boogeymen or scapegoats.
             | One might think this validates moral panic, but I don't see
             | it as translating to obeying the will of the people (or
             | equivalent constituency) because things done out of panic
             | are not a sign of consent.
        
               | reedf1 wrote:
               | You are being selectively pedantic; a hallmark of bad
               | faith engagement.
        
               | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
               | You're being dense. He directly answered your question.
        
           | ben_w wrote:
           | As a teenager in the late 90s in the UK, I remember the moral
           | panic about ecstasy, where Leah Betts was the unwitting
           | literal poster child for the war against drugs, in the form
           | of her comatose intubated face in a hospital bed.
           | 
           | They told us that we couldn't rely on it being pure, because
           | hers was pure and it killed her. They told us we couldn't be
           | sure it would be safe for us if we'd already tried it before,
           | because this was her second time and it killed her.
           | 
           | They never told us she'd _actually_ died from drinking
           | approximately 7 litres of water in 90 minutes. But they did
           | fire someone for truthfully saying the drug itself was no
           | more dangerous than riding a horse.
        
           | owisd wrote:
           | With moral panics, the kids would never agree that video
           | games or D&D or whatever was causing them any problems, yet
           | with social media use most kids will agree it's a problem, so
           | can't be characterised as a moral panic.
        
         | hindsightbias wrote:
         | I'd be a completely different person if I'd grown up under a 21
         | drinking age. It was often my only social outlet.
         | 
         | Even the kids used to go out until the RAVE Act.
        
         | lupusreal wrote:
         | (When doing "X let alone Y" the more outrageous thing goes in
         | Y.)
         | 
         | I strongly agree with your point, it should be possible to ban
         | this stuff for minors at least. Under 13s are already
         | _effectively banned_ but banning all minors altogether would be
         | much more effective.
        
       | ImAnAmateur wrote:
       | > "Social media research has largely assumed that [so-called]
       | social media addiction is going to follow the same framework as
       | drug addiction," said Turner. Orben's team and others argue that
       | this is likely to be oversimplistic and are investigating whether
       | the teenagers cluster into groups whose behaviour can be
       | predicted by other personality traits.
       | 
       | > It could be that, for some, their relationship is akin to a
       | behavioural addiction, but for others their use could be driven
       | by compulsive checking, others may be relying on it to cope with
       | negative life experiences, and others may simply be responding to
       | negative social perceptions about "wasting time" on social media.
       | 
       | Finally! I feel less smart for not having thought of this myself!
       | 
       | I was unable to meaningfully change my own phone habits (despite
       | serious effort and roadblocks) until it clicked that I was coping
       | for something. What that was and what I was doing to cope
       | highlighted parts of my life like nothing else. Instead of simply
       | abstaining from using my phone, I put time into activities that
       | benefited the withered branches of my life. Old habits still die
       | hard, but knowing _that_ I 'm coping _as_ I 'm coping helped me
       | separate the good social media use from the bad.
        
         | nonethewiser wrote:
         | This is the solution for a lot of behavioral problems. The
         | instinct is to do the bad behavior less, but the solution may
         | instead be to do something else more.
        
           | deemster wrote:
           | A nail is driven out by another nail, habit is overcome by
           | habit - Erasmus
        
             | jay_kyburz wrote:
             | I made a browser based strategy game that takes place over
             | weeks. Instead of checking Facebook 3 times a day, I log
             | into Neptune's Pride 3 times a day to chat with the other
             | players and try and conquer the galaxy.
        
         | apwell23 wrote:
         | Yes this is why I've been trying to ski as much as possible
         | this winter.
         | 
         | 1. Helps my eyes by letting them see things at a distance.
         | staring far into mountains on the lift ect.
         | 
         | 2. Keeps me away from internet. I have dumb phone and a whistle
         | with me in my pocket.
         | 
         | 3. Helps me reconnect with my body and rediscover what it can
         | do.
         | 
         | 4. Mountain air seems to clear up my sinuses
         | 
         | 5. And ofcourse benefits of physical excerscise.
         | 
         | 6. I just feel very fulfilled at the end of day a stark
         | contrast to depression of day filled with daze of the internet.
         | 
         | 7. This is bit of bro science but seems to improve my
         | digestion. Being in internet daze all day seems to put a pause
         | on my digestion.
        
           | forrestwilkins wrote:
           | Exercise generally helps with digestion.
        
         | Swizec wrote:
         | > Instead of simply abstaining from using my phone, I put time
         | into activities
         | 
         | My relationship with social media, even HackerNews, really
         | clicked when a meme (oh irony) said: _"You're like a tiger in a
         | cage. You know how they pace in circles when their enclosures
         | lack enrichment? That's you bouncing around apps on your
         | phone"_
         | 
         | Haven't quite figured out how to reliably stop that, but it's
         | true that when there's enough enrichment, I can go days
         | forgetting that my phone and the internet even exist.
        
         | nonrandomstring wrote:
         | "The Myth of Normal" by Mate Gabor is a great place for people
         | to start this work.
         | 
         | Later it dawns on you that sure, like everybody else you have
         | weaknesses and traumas that you've learned to cope with, but
         | that doesn't excuse some people deliberately designing and
         | pushing a product to specifically exploit that. That should
         | give you dose of healthy positive anger of the kind that is
         | transformative when acted upon.
        
         | johndhi wrote:
         | any tips on how to identify what you're coping for?
        
           | ggpsv wrote:
           | Not the parent but I can suggest what has worked for me.
           | 
           | Talking to a therapist can be helpful in getting to the root
           | of it. Meditation also helps, but it may be a longer road. In
           | other words, whatever helps you live a more examined life.
           | 
           | Regarding habits and the habit loop (what's being mentioned
           | here), "The Power of Habit" [0] is a great read.
           | 
           | [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Habit
        
           | edrxty wrote:
           | No shit, go see a decent therapist. This is literally the
           | core of what they do as a profession. If they aren't helpful,
           | just want to babble about the weather for 45 minutes,
           | whatever, find a different one. PhD > Masters but I've met
           | bad PhDs and good masters clinicians.
           | 
           | Also, if you're struggling with getting things done because
           | you're always dopamine seeking, get checked for ADHD. There
           | are some extremely effective treatments that can make your
           | life way easier if that turns out to be the problem.
        
           | godelski wrote:
           | In addition to therapist, as others state, I'd also suggest
           | just being more open with your friends (I also get that it
           | can be intimidating to see a therapist and it's easy to
           | justify not going, especially if you're in a good mood).
           | Maybe grab some beers or something to create a
           | scapegoat/plausible deniability if needed. I've long suffered
           | from depression and this has been one of the most impactful
           | moves for me, especially around identifying latent issues
           | that appear more ethereal. It can be hard, especially in our
           | general gender norms (I'm male) where some people will think
           | it is a weakness (men and women), but to me strength is doing
           | the hard things. YMMV, but I think it is important to have
           | friends and/or partner(s) that you can be open with and just
           | have the ability to vent. Fuck, sometimes I don't even know
           | what I'm upset about until I let off a little steam first,
           | and often just an outside opinion helps.
           | 
           | I can also suggest small internet communities as these can be
           | places to form friendships while having some PII type of
           | anonymity and at least for me helped me be more open before I
           | was ready to open up to friends. Places like HN and reddit
           | are probably too large, but hey, I'll put this out in general
           | to anyone, feel free to reach out over email[0]. You can also
           | get something similar by just talking to random people at a
           | bar.
           | 
           | Whatever works best for you, but it all is a noisy process.
           | But at the end of the day I think what's most critical is
           | that you find some means of just opening up. You don't have
           | to stick to one group either, and if you need to start at one
           | place to build up to another, there's no problem with that.
           | Take it as a journey, not a destination. But I will say
           | having at least a one or two core friends (and ideally a
           | partner) is going to be one of the most helpful things you
           | can do for your mental health. A therapist will never be
           | enough but you should think of them as a very useful and
           | different tool (because you do want advice not coming from
           | those who want to protect you. Outside opinions are
           | invaluable and a good therapist will do their best, but
           | consider they can only work with the context you give and
           | what they can get from you).
           | 
           | [0] In my profile. And if anyone has a suggestion for a
           | better anonymous email, let me know. I'm kinda annoyed at
           | proton's ads.
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | I think this is an unfortunately not enough discussed topic. As
         | sciences are young (as psychology relatively is) you work on
         | broader problems and much more aggregated results. You make
         | naive assumptions like everything exists in normal
         | distributions or data is i.i.d. So you get results that are big
         | generalizations and sometimes not even reliable. But then as a
         | field advances, it naturally shifts into requiring more and
         | more nuance and specificity. Where you have to start
         | considering multivariate solutions (even if that's a mixture of
         | gaussians, which, awesome tool btw) because you approach a
         | natural wall at the explainability of your data with naive
         | methods. And let's be clear, if we wanted to really rigorously
         | study psychology -- at the same level as, say, physics -- then
         | there would need to be a lot of crazy math invented and we'd
         | probably still end up needing to do unethical things because
         | holy fuck how do you control all those variables. (definitely
         | warrants being open about error and unknowns)
         | 
         | There's nothing wrong with that. But I do think it's wrong that
         | we're not open about it, in so much that it isn't even always
         | explicitly stated during a science education. We might say
         | something like "all models are wrong" but I don't think that
         | solidifies this thinking enough for novices and can create
         | experts who still don't get it. Wherein it becomes a classic
         | clique, where everyone knows the phrase but doesn't understand
         | or practice the lesson.
         | 
         | There's some noticeable downsides too. If you're constantly not
         | reiterating what your base assumptions are and acknowledging
         | the limitation of those assumptions, you forget they exist. It
         | also becomes hard to communicate the significance of your work
         | to the public and I think in some cases is often why the public
         | ends up calling (sometimes rightfully, sometimes not) bullshit.
         | I think there's also a major advantage to science, in being
         | open about these helps newcomers (such as those entering
         | graduate school) more readily understand the limitations of the
         | field and what work needs to be done. But I think some
         | incentive structures we have in place don't encourage great
         | scientific behavior in this way. Speaking of which, other
         | metrics can even end up making bridging this multivariate gap
         | more difficult. Such as the all too well known p-value
         | weirdness, you may end up rejecting works making progress
         | towards this bridging by having these arbitrary requirements
         | rather than evaluating works with more nuance, which can even
         | then discourage attempting to build such bridges. I guess
         | coming full circle to: it's complicated? Like everything else
         | lol
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | You've really nailed from my perspective.
         | 
         | I used my phone as a way to withdraw and escape. Even the most
         | mundane situations warranted some degree of escape. Very
         | stressful times would boost my screen time dramatically.
         | 
         | It seemed painfully simple in retrospect. Like any behavioural
         | addiction, though, I had an endless supply of reasons to be on
         | a screen at any given time. Scary stuff. I don't think I'm the
         | kind of person people would think behaves that way, nor did I
         | necessarily. But we're all human, and this is a very human
         | thing. It sneaks into your life in such an insidious way, and
         | does so much damage before you can consciously see it or feel
         | it.
        
       | i_am_jl wrote:
       | >'We're not saying the people who say they feel addicted are
       | addicted,' said Georgia Turner, a graduate student leading the
       | analysis
       | 
       | Is it common to question the validity of self-identified
       | addictions to other substances or behaviors? Is it common for
       | people who aren't gambling addicts to say things like "I feel
       | like I'm addicted to gambling"?
       | 
       | I suppose that the lead on the study doesn't want to overstate
       | their findings, and there's obviously a social stigma that exists
       | around admitting to gambling addiction that doesn't seem to exist
       | for social media addiction, but still; it strikes me as unusual
       | to be so openly questioning people about whether or not their
       | perceived addictions are real.
        
         | megaman821 wrote:
         | Well, yes if the suggestion is some sort of intervention. There
         | are large groups of people that will say they are addicted to
         | coffee, TV, video games, etc. Not a lot of them will meet the
         | medical definition of addiction.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Probably the most obvious example of this is everyone who
           | says "I have OCD!". No, you don't really have OCD.
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | It is both fairly common to say you're addicted to something as
         | a way of saying you're really into something _as well as_ to
         | indicate actual addiction, _and_ you can 't expect people asked
         | a question like that without detailed additional guidance to be
         | able to give a clinical assessment of whether they are in fact
         | suffering from an addiction.
         | 
         | Unless you probe what the respondents _mean_ by addiction, _or_
         | provide them a clear definition before asking, there 's very
         | little reason to assume they will be using a definition of
         | addiction that justifies assuming anything approaching a
         | clinical definition, or even anything negative.
         | 
         | My opinion goes in other direction: I think even with that
         | caveat, what she went on to say suggests she's making
         | assumptions about what people meant - especially given the age
         | of the respondents - that I don't there's basis for unless the
         | survey provided a lot more context than just the question given
         | in the article.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | Seems reasonable to separate self-identification from a
         | diagnosis. Flip the logic: if someone says they _aren 't_
         | addicted to something, does that make it true?
        
         | amenhotep wrote:
         | Social media addiction is a meme (in the technical, mind virus
         | sense), gambling addiction isn't.
         | 
         | I don't know if this is what the study authors were thinking,
         | but I see it as a bit like not taking people's word for it that
         | they're gluten intolerant. It _is_ a real thing and people _do_
         | know that they have it, but also it 's a trendy thing and there
         | are a lot of people trying to convince you that you have it
         | when actually you're perfectly normal.
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | I don't think there'd be a problem taking their word for it
           | _if the questions asked were the right ones_.
           | 
           | Asking people if they feel like they're addicted to social
           | media without framing exactly what you mean by addicted (and
           | for that matter what you include in social media) might both
           | overcount and undercount.
           | 
           | Have everyone who answered answered on the basis that they
           | see this "addiction" as a problem, or a negative, and
           | something they genuinely find hard to stop (as opposed to not
           | really wanting to do anything about)? On the opposite end,
           | are the ones who disagree counting forums like Reddit, or HN?
           | Discord servers? Are they talking mostly about one one-on-one
           | contact with friends on, say, Snapchat, that they're
           | "addicted to" because it's social contact they enjoy, or
           | depression-boosting, compulsive voyeueristic doom scrolling
           | that they're addicted to in a downright harmful way?
           | 
           | It's a start, and little more, to ask that first question
           | that pretty much only tells us that there is something of
           | sufficient magnitude to probe further. To start with, the
           | respondents appear to not have said whether or not their
           | "addiction" is something that causes negative effects on
           | their life or not.
        
       | vidarh wrote:
       | [EDIT: I'd love to hear what those who've downvoted actually
       | disagree with. The question as stated in the article _objectively
       | does not_ ask whether they see this as a problem or not, nor does
       | it justify why they believe they can assume how respondents have
       | interpreted the question; I very intentionally caveated this to
       | point out that I don 't have a problem with the notion that many
       | of them probably _did_ mean it was problematic to them, but if
       | that was not appropriately contextualised to the respondents _it
       | is not clear_ how many did or did not interpret it the same way
       | the researchers do - maybe they did include additional context;
       | if so it 's The Guardian leaving out important context. Either
       | way, from this article we can't tell]
       | 
       | Overegging the results.
       | 
       | This is the statement they were asked to agree or disagree with
       | according to the article.
       | 
       | > "I think I am addicted to social media"
       | 
       | Note that it does not ask them to answer whether they think they
       | have a _problematic_ relationship with social media. Using the
       | term  "addicted" to refer to something you spend a lot of time
       | with is common _whether you 're happy or unhappy about it_.
       | Unless there is significant context around the question that the
       | article left out but that were presented to respondents, making
       | the assumptions they seem to be making in the article seems
       | problematic at best.
       | 
       | E.g. if asked if I was dedicated to chocolate, or pistachio ice
       | cream, I'd say yes. If I was asked if I had a problem with it,
       | I'd say no - I _enjoy_ those  "addictions". I also enjoy my HN
       | "addiction".
       | 
       | I'm sure a portion of those who strongly agreed that they feel
       | addicted _also_ do consider it a negative and maybe a serious
       | problem in some cases, but _the question reported on did not ask
       | about that_ , so all we really know is the upper bound on the
       | subset that may or may not consider their social media use a
       | problem.
       | 
       | Maybe it is a genuinely big problem, or maybe it isn't. This data
       | won't tell us.
       | 
       | What is worrying, though, is that even though the grad student
       | leading the analysis downplays the "addiction part" ("We're not
       | saying the people who say they feel addicted are addicted,") she
       | goes on to overinterpret the data ("But it's not a nice feeling
       | to feel you don't have agency over your own behaviour. It's quite
       | striking that so many people feel like that and it can't it be
       | that good") - nothing about the question asked about whether
       | people feel they have agency, or that it "can't be that good".
       | Maybe they all meant that, but assuming they all meant that when
       | it was not what they were asked is unprofessional.
        
       | justrealist wrote:
       | 50% _feel_ addicted, and the other 50% are addicted but don 't
       | even recognize the feeling (because they've had a smartphone
       | since preschool).
        
       | maven29 wrote:
       | It would be more productive to stop prodding at the symptoms and
       | instead consider looking into potential root causes like car
       | dependency and commercialization or erosion of third places.
       | 
       | Kids aren't just staring at a glowing rectangle due to some
       | unexplainable pharmacological effect it may possess, they just
       | crave human connection and sense of belonging just like everyone
       | else. Using medical terms to dehumanize them is not productive at
       | all.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | The root cause is that social media apps are designed to be
         | addictive whereas other software is not. This was encouraged by
         | all the SV cheerleaders (remember Nir Eyal's "Hooked" being a
         | must-read for all product bros?), before it was clear that
         | Facebook and others conduct significant levels of
         | experimentation to extend screen use time.
        
         | Der_Einzige wrote:
         | Places with far weaker car culture and world class mass transit
         | and which have stronger "third places" culture are still phone
         | and social media addicted. See Singapore, Japan, or South Korea
         | as an example of this.
        
       | throwawaaarrgh wrote:
       | Quit social media, you'll feel better.
        
         | LesZedCB wrote:
         | hacker news is social media
        
           | 342534ateraegst wrote:
           | then we should quit that too. Bye bye!
        
       | hinkley wrote:
       | Anyone heard any compelling conjectures on what the backlash for
       | all of these studies will look like? My own are fairly
       | milquetoast.
       | 
       | I just hope they do better than we did with cigarettes, and the
       | boomers did with nature.
        
         | red-iron-pine wrote:
         | a poor take.
         | 
         | cigarette consumption is way, wayyyyyyy down, and is
         | effectively gone in the first world outside of small pockets.
         | compare to the 1950s where everyone smoked, all the time.
         | 
         | or think about asbestos, or lead. we figured out those are bad
         | and made drastic changes to start removing those -- and did.
         | 
         | nature is a little harder, esp. given that the largest corps in
         | the world + plenty of soverign wealth funds, are trying their
         | hardest to keep people from thinking about it as it collapses.
        
       | jgliajwelirt4j wrote:
       | Once again, social media is 21st century cigarettes. Legions of
       | brilliant scientists and engineers have spent cumulative
       | millennia optimizing these products to be as addictive as
       | possible, while simultaneously compiling and burying evidence of
       | the deleterious effects their products have on their customers.
        
       | palemoonale wrote:
       | Colour me surprised. And quite some of you friggen' softies and
       | app devs are resposible for this, this output of yours which is
       | way worse than the perceived impact of carbon dioxide, travel,
       | cars, etc. Fuck you social media devs.
        
         | CatWChainsaw wrote:
         | They hide behind the "someone else would have done it and the
         | paycheck was nice" defense.
        
       | righthand wrote:
       | Repost because of HN's over-aggressive censorship (m-bation is
       | abbreviated no-no word):
       | 
       | Social media is just psychological m-bation via marketing
       | tactics. Maybe if we called it m-bation people would stop
       | aggressively ignoring the negative effects from habitual use. On
       | the other hand no one openly discusses physical m-bation, just as
       | no one discusses their online identity they've cultivated. Get a
       | hobby, gain a skill.
        
       | MuffinFlavored wrote:
       | How many of us reading this title are addicted to this website
       | (which you can argue is a form of social media, is it not?)
       | 
       | How many of us read + communicate on this as well as Reddit as
       | well as...
       | Telegram/WhatsApp/Facebook/Instagram/Twitter/TikTok/etc.
        
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       (page generated 2024-01-03 23:01 UTC)