[HN Gopher] Ant Completes Process of Removing Jack Ma's Control
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       Ant Completes Process of Removing Jack Ma's Control
        
       Author : ksec
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2024-01-01 17:23 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
        
       | mynameisnoone wrote:
       | Anyone who rivals Xi in any capacity is a threat to be
       | humiliated, humbled, and/or disappeared. Such a backwards,
       | totalitarian attitude will footgun China's ascent and push
       | Chinese entrepreneurs and braintrust to relocate to one of many
       | other stable societies.
        
         | Morte42 wrote:
         | I would wager that most Chinese people fear racism and
         | prejudism towards them more than Ma considering how common and
         | politically popular Sinophobia has become again. Ma is still a
         | billionaire, his position is not attainable for most no matter
         | how they look at it. But Sinophobia is a household thing now.
        
           | hnthrowaway6543 wrote:
           | > I would wager that most Chinese people fear racism and
           | prejudism towards them more than Ma considering how common
           | and politically popular Sinophobia has become again.
           | 
           | I would wager that you are completely wrong for thinking
           | this. Chinese people fear racism and prejudism towards them
           | _from whom_? The US? Even taking the statement  "Sinophobia
           | is common [in the US]" at face value (even though it's
           | wrong), Chinese people living in China care about that as
           | much as Americans care about the vast majority of Africa and
           | the Middle East hating them, which is to say not a whole lot.
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | It's actually quite convenient for the US that China is moving
       | back towards an inefficient state controlled economy.
       | 
       | This will slow down China's growth and make them much less of a
       | threat.
       | 
       | Sometimes I wonder if this is an own-goal or whether the US uses
       | other means to trick China into behaving stupidly.
        
         | AtlasBarfed wrote:
         | No, just good old tyrant despite psychology.
         | 
         | Economic regression and forthcoming demographic collapse won't
         | be pretty. Peter Zeihan doomism may live up to the hyperbole.
         | 
         | The bad part for China is once power is consolidated, the next
         | despot will be just as bad.
        
           | croes wrote:
           | >Economic regression and forthcoming demographic collapse
           | 
           | Isn't the same happening in the west?
        
             | jdewerd wrote:
             | Not nearly as quickly. Where we had millenials -- the echo
             | of the baby boom -- they had the One Child Policy. That
             | difference is now entering prime earning/spending years.
        
             | AtlasBarfed wrote:
             | Not with immigration. For all the right wing handwringing,
             | immigration is a boon in the long run.
        
         | webdoodle wrote:
         | Ma's downfall came shortly after Putin suggested that he run
         | for president of China. Coupled with his association with Peter
         | Thiel, Xi decided to reign him in before he could do any real
         | damage.
        
         | riffraff wrote:
         | Milton Friedman thought that a free market was incompatible
         | with a totalitarian state, so once the economy gets freed some
         | sort of liberal government would follow.
         | 
         | Perhaps Xi is the CCP immune reaction to the risk that a freer
         | economy would lead to a freer state.
        
           | pipes wrote:
           | Hrm... In a YouTube video I'm pretty sure he says that free
           | states can't exist without capitalism but that doesn't mean
           | unfree states can't be capitalist too. In fact this was in
           | response to an audience member claiming he said what you are
           | roughly saying.
        
         | ridiculous_leke wrote:
         | CCP doing CCP things. At the end of the day, it's a reminder
         | who's the boss in China and their constitution attests to it.
        
         | jdewerd wrote:
         | > moving back towards an inefficient state controlled economy
         | 
         | Didn't the Soviets go from agrarian to superpower and give the
         | US a merry chase before collapsing? This might be a long arc.
         | 
         | > slow down China's growth and make them much less of a threat.
         | 
         | If I was a dictator and the population was starting to get
         | upset over stalled growth, starting a war would seem to be a
         | great way to generate excuses for economic hardship and
         | crackdowns. Oh, and it would give the factories something to do
         | other than get undercut by Vietnam. War sounds like the answer
         | to all of my problems. I think this situation makes me _more_
         | of a threat, don 't you?
         | 
         | > trick China into behaving stupidly
         | 
         | Remember, they just acquired the world's industrial base. With
         | our encouragement, because we thought it would turn them into a
         | liberal democracy. It, uhhh, didn't. So did we really trick
         | them? Or did we sell them the rope with which they will hang us
         | (to paraphrase the Lenin quote)?
        
           | edgyquant wrote:
           | No, the "war as a distraction thing" is an over repeated
           | trope with little nuance or bearing on reality. War doesn't
           | distract but puts all eyes on you and losing one (which is
           | always a risk) is a sure fire way to lose any power you were
           | looking to keep via distraction anyway.
           | 
           | Societies go to war when they think they can win and achieve
           | political aims. Any distraction is an excuse to do something
           | they were likely to do anyway.
        
             | jdewerd wrote:
             | > over repeated trope with little nuance
             | 
             | Says the guy whose entire argument is "war is risky." Well,
             | yeah -- and a ruler weighs that risk against the risk of
             | losing legitimacy and power due to a stalling economy. This
             | story has repeated many times in history. That's why it's a
             | "trope."
             | 
             | > political aims. Any distraction is an excuse to do
             | something they were likely to do anyway.
             | 
             | You don't have to read between the lines on Taiwan, you can
             | simply read the lines.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | The first sign of China destroying its own economy came for me
       | when Jack Ma was disappeared.
       | 
       | Chinas economy is now ruined.
       | 
       | The vast majority of foreign companies have left or are leaving.
       | Same with foreign capital.
       | 
       | Massive unemployment and getting worse. People homeless and in
       | poverty.
       | 
       | The real estate ponzi has collapsed. Banks are in trouble.
       | 
       | The construction boom has turned out to be extremely low quality
       | and tofu dreg constructions everywhere are resulting in things
       | like apartment blocks that are falling over and must be abandoned
       | and destroyed.
       | 
       | The tech companies have been hacked down to size, entire industry
       | sectors simply stopped.
       | 
       | In only a few years the China success story has collapsed
       | entirely.
       | 
       | Perfect conditions for a leader who needs distraction to seek it
       | in war.
        
         | noxs wrote:
         | > People homeless and in poverty
         | 
         | If you think people in China will become homeless then it means
         | you have massive illusion about Chinese culture, the land
         | policy, and the real estate situation.
        
         | andrewstuart wrote:
         | And for those calling for evidence:
         | 
         | "A Ponzi scheme by any other name: the bursting of China's
         | property bubble"
         | https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/25/china-prope...
         | 
         | "China's Global Mega-Projects Are Falling Apart"
         | https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-global-mega-projects-infr...
         | 
         | "In-depth: 16 Tofu-Dreg High-Rise Apartments Tilt, Over 3000
         | People Urgently Evacuate"
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJMCk-vrNtk
         | 
         | "China tries to spark baby boom by destroying its $140 billion
         | tutoring sector" https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-20/china-
         | crackdown-priva...
         | 
         | "A timeline of China's 32-month Big Tech crackdown that killed
         | the world's largest IPO and wiped out trillions in value"
         | https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3227753/timeline-...
         | 
         | "China's Colossal Hidden-Debt Problem Is Coming to a Head"
         | https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chinas-colossal-hidden-debt-...
         | 
         | "2023: The year China's economic miracle ended"
         | https://www.axios.com/2023/12/28/2023-the-year-chinas-econom...
         | 
         | "China stops releasing youth unemployment rates amid economic
         | gloom" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/china-
         | unemploy...
         | 
         | "China Youths Swap City Dreams for Country Living as Jobs
         | Crisis Mounts"
         | https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-03/china-you...
         | 
         | "China's Tofu Dregs Projects: Never-ending Collapses/Heavy rain
         | reveal them for what they are"
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USzMuewAfJA
         | 
         | "Yuan loses core support as firms leave China"
         | https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/yuan-loses-core-s...
         | 
         | "US companies pull out of China as relations sour"
         | https://www.afr.com/world/asia/us-companies-pull-out-of-chin...
         | 
         | "Big tech companies are moving production out of China over
         | geostrategic concerns"
         | https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/big-te...
        
       | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/ckfcD
        
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