[HN Gopher] Ant Completes Process of Removing Jack Ma's Control
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Ant Completes Process of Removing Jack Ma's Control
Author : ksec
Score : 32 points
Date : 2024-01-01 17:23 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
| mynameisnoone wrote:
| Anyone who rivals Xi in any capacity is a threat to be
| humiliated, humbled, and/or disappeared. Such a backwards,
| totalitarian attitude will footgun China's ascent and push
| Chinese entrepreneurs and braintrust to relocate to one of many
| other stable societies.
| Morte42 wrote:
| I would wager that most Chinese people fear racism and
| prejudism towards them more than Ma considering how common and
| politically popular Sinophobia has become again. Ma is still a
| billionaire, his position is not attainable for most no matter
| how they look at it. But Sinophobia is a household thing now.
| hnthrowaway6543 wrote:
| > I would wager that most Chinese people fear racism and
| prejudism towards them more than Ma considering how common
| and politically popular Sinophobia has become again.
|
| I would wager that you are completely wrong for thinking
| this. Chinese people fear racism and prejudism towards them
| _from whom_? The US? Even taking the statement "Sinophobia
| is common [in the US]" at face value (even though it's
| wrong), Chinese people living in China care about that as
| much as Americans care about the vast majority of Africa and
| the Middle East hating them, which is to say not a whole lot.
| mensetmanusman wrote:
| It's actually quite convenient for the US that China is moving
| back towards an inefficient state controlled economy.
|
| This will slow down China's growth and make them much less of a
| threat.
|
| Sometimes I wonder if this is an own-goal or whether the US uses
| other means to trick China into behaving stupidly.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| No, just good old tyrant despite psychology.
|
| Economic regression and forthcoming demographic collapse won't
| be pretty. Peter Zeihan doomism may live up to the hyperbole.
|
| The bad part for China is once power is consolidated, the next
| despot will be just as bad.
| croes wrote:
| >Economic regression and forthcoming demographic collapse
|
| Isn't the same happening in the west?
| jdewerd wrote:
| Not nearly as quickly. Where we had millenials -- the echo
| of the baby boom -- they had the One Child Policy. That
| difference is now entering prime earning/spending years.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| Not with immigration. For all the right wing handwringing,
| immigration is a boon in the long run.
| webdoodle wrote:
| Ma's downfall came shortly after Putin suggested that he run
| for president of China. Coupled with his association with Peter
| Thiel, Xi decided to reign him in before he could do any real
| damage.
| riffraff wrote:
| Milton Friedman thought that a free market was incompatible
| with a totalitarian state, so once the economy gets freed some
| sort of liberal government would follow.
|
| Perhaps Xi is the CCP immune reaction to the risk that a freer
| economy would lead to a freer state.
| pipes wrote:
| Hrm... In a YouTube video I'm pretty sure he says that free
| states can't exist without capitalism but that doesn't mean
| unfree states can't be capitalist too. In fact this was in
| response to an audience member claiming he said what you are
| roughly saying.
| ridiculous_leke wrote:
| CCP doing CCP things. At the end of the day, it's a reminder
| who's the boss in China and their constitution attests to it.
| jdewerd wrote:
| > moving back towards an inefficient state controlled economy
|
| Didn't the Soviets go from agrarian to superpower and give the
| US a merry chase before collapsing? This might be a long arc.
|
| > slow down China's growth and make them much less of a threat.
|
| If I was a dictator and the population was starting to get
| upset over stalled growth, starting a war would seem to be a
| great way to generate excuses for economic hardship and
| crackdowns. Oh, and it would give the factories something to do
| other than get undercut by Vietnam. War sounds like the answer
| to all of my problems. I think this situation makes me _more_
| of a threat, don 't you?
|
| > trick China into behaving stupidly
|
| Remember, they just acquired the world's industrial base. With
| our encouragement, because we thought it would turn them into a
| liberal democracy. It, uhhh, didn't. So did we really trick
| them? Or did we sell them the rope with which they will hang us
| (to paraphrase the Lenin quote)?
| edgyquant wrote:
| No, the "war as a distraction thing" is an over repeated
| trope with little nuance or bearing on reality. War doesn't
| distract but puts all eyes on you and losing one (which is
| always a risk) is a sure fire way to lose any power you were
| looking to keep via distraction anyway.
|
| Societies go to war when they think they can win and achieve
| political aims. Any distraction is an excuse to do something
| they were likely to do anyway.
| jdewerd wrote:
| > over repeated trope with little nuance
|
| Says the guy whose entire argument is "war is risky." Well,
| yeah -- and a ruler weighs that risk against the risk of
| losing legitimacy and power due to a stalling economy. This
| story has repeated many times in history. That's why it's a
| "trope."
|
| > political aims. Any distraction is an excuse to do
| something they were likely to do anyway.
|
| You don't have to read between the lines on Taiwan, you can
| simply read the lines.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| The first sign of China destroying its own economy came for me
| when Jack Ma was disappeared.
|
| Chinas economy is now ruined.
|
| The vast majority of foreign companies have left or are leaving.
| Same with foreign capital.
|
| Massive unemployment and getting worse. People homeless and in
| poverty.
|
| The real estate ponzi has collapsed. Banks are in trouble.
|
| The construction boom has turned out to be extremely low quality
| and tofu dreg constructions everywhere are resulting in things
| like apartment blocks that are falling over and must be abandoned
| and destroyed.
|
| The tech companies have been hacked down to size, entire industry
| sectors simply stopped.
|
| In only a few years the China success story has collapsed
| entirely.
|
| Perfect conditions for a leader who needs distraction to seek it
| in war.
| noxs wrote:
| > People homeless and in poverty
|
| If you think people in China will become homeless then it means
| you have massive illusion about Chinese culture, the land
| policy, and the real estate situation.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| And for those calling for evidence:
|
| "A Ponzi scheme by any other name: the bursting of China's
| property bubble"
| https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/25/china-prope...
|
| "China's Global Mega-Projects Are Falling Apart"
| https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-global-mega-projects-infr...
|
| "In-depth: 16 Tofu-Dreg High-Rise Apartments Tilt, Over 3000
| People Urgently Evacuate"
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJMCk-vrNtk
|
| "China tries to spark baby boom by destroying its $140 billion
| tutoring sector" https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-20/china-
| crackdown-priva...
|
| "A timeline of China's 32-month Big Tech crackdown that killed
| the world's largest IPO and wiped out trillions in value"
| https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3227753/timeline-...
|
| "China's Colossal Hidden-Debt Problem Is Coming to a Head"
| https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chinas-colossal-hidden-debt-...
|
| "2023: The year China's economic miracle ended"
| https://www.axios.com/2023/12/28/2023-the-year-chinas-econom...
|
| "China stops releasing youth unemployment rates amid economic
| gloom" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/15/china-
| unemploy...
|
| "China Youths Swap City Dreams for Country Living as Jobs
| Crisis Mounts"
| https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-03/china-you...
|
| "China's Tofu Dregs Projects: Never-ending Collapses/Heavy rain
| reveal them for what they are"
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USzMuewAfJA
|
| "Yuan loses core support as firms leave China"
| https://www.reuters.com/markets/currencies/yuan-loses-core-s...
|
| "US companies pull out of China as relations sour"
| https://www.afr.com/world/asia/us-companies-pull-out-of-chin...
|
| "Big tech companies are moving production out of China over
| geostrategic concerns"
| https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/big-te...
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| https://archive.ph/ckfcD
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