[HN Gopher] Get your work recognized: write a brag document (2019)
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Get your work recognized: write a brag document (2019)
Author : momentmaker
Score : 29 points
Date : 2023-12-31 17:58 UTC (5 hours ago)
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| tonydev wrote:
| This is (unfortunately) great advice for large companies like
| Google, MSFT, Meta, where the internal mechanics of vying for and
| achieving promotion tend to drive behavior. Promo packets,
| calibration sessions, etc. OTOH, this is not good advice for any
| organization that maintains the capacity to (1) recognize and (2)
| value great work on merit. Better to spend your mental energy on
| doing something you and your colleagues deeply value, towards
| some shared goal.
| ttymck wrote:
| How do I find these organizations?
| dandigangi wrote:
| False. This is great for any job. Not saying it will always be
| successful but its a red flag if you do this and it has no
| impact on your compensation or promos.
|
| Giant red flag.
| Scubabear68 wrote:
| This really depends on the organization and the manager. I
| have been in orgs where my manager knows very well what I am
| doing and my impact. A list like this would be fairly useless
| in that case.
|
| I have worked for bigger corps where my manager has no idea
| what I do, especially consulting service companies. If I've
| worked with 7 clients over 3 different account groups, I am
| the only one who knows what those 7 clients are, and what I
| did for them. In those cases I do document my
| accomplishments. I have even gone as far as create a brief
| presentation for when I get a new manager.
|
| This also differs from a CV not only in being more detailed,
| but also flagging things like "successfully worked with XYZ
| account manager, who is widely known to be difficult to work
| with".
| wenc wrote:
| Managers, especially if they have a large span of control
| (but even if they don't), aren't all uniformly disciplined
| at recording every instance of impact. To help your manager
| and reduce variability (i.e. their perception of your
| performance should be based on data, not vibes), it's to
| your advantage to keep your own list.
|
| I've had good managers that I keep in the loop with weekly
| 1:1's but come promo time, even they need help figuring out
| what I did over the span of a year. (to be honest, if I
| hadn't written it down, I don't even remember myself)
| kasey_junk wrote:
| I couldn't disagree more. In healthy organizations your
| manager and your peers can observe your impact and and
| calibrate correctly.
|
| It's only on teams and organizations that are disfunctional
| that such artifacts are useful. If I have to keep a document
| for this I'm already looking for a new job.
| bradknowles wrote:
| Not just one document for "achievements". Have a separate
| section for the big "bar raiser" moments.
|
| If you don't keep this document constantly updated on a daily
| basis, you will quickly forget what you did and when, and then
| you won't have a document for any of your achievements.
|
| You need to show this document to your manager and discuss each
| item on the list during your weekly 1-on-1 meetings.
|
| Failure to do so is pretty much guaranteed to keep you from
| being promoted. Failure to be promoted is pretty much
| guaranteed to get you pushed out the door.
|
| The U.S. Military has a concept of "too much time in grade",
| a.k.a., "up or out". The big companies have a similar process
| -- if you're not moving up the ladder fast enough in comparison
| to all the other people at your level, then you need to leave.
|
| My biggest problem is recognizing when I've done anything
| worthy of writing down as an achievement.
| ttymck wrote:
| Has anyone had success with this approach at startups?
| StevePerkins wrote:
| If people don't already know what you're doing at a startup,
| then you have REALLY chosen the wrong startup!
|
| I have no doubt that the LinkedIn addicts and self-help book
| cultists will swoop down to insist that this advice applies to
| all companies. But really, it is most heavily tilted toward
| tech giants and large enterprises.
| mhss wrote:
| In my experience this is more important at large companies,
| because your work is more likely to get lost in the noise. At
| startups work is often much more visible and perhaps there's
| less of a need for this, but not a bad idea to do it either way
| and you can KISS, ask for a quarterly check-in with your
| manager to go over your work accomplishments, ask for feedback,
| etc;
| jdudkeidnn wrote:
| While I agree with and appreciate the pragmatism of this, I think
| there's a fundamental problem if an employee has to report their
| work to their manager (or employer, etc). Management that is not
| deeply aware of what their reports are doing is either
| unnecessary or incompetent.
|
| I think this trend is mostly a result of management looking to
| squeeze more labor out of their reports for the same price. As
| soon as you make working on braggable things your reports
| problem, you have a lot less work to do and your reports have
| (more) perverse incentives to both overwork and ignore
| "unbraggable" work. These incentives are more aligned with
| contract work, not full time employment - the former usually
| being much pricier.
| ttymck wrote:
| I strongly agree with this intuition, and I worry that we
| software engineers are gaslighting each other into believing
| otherwise.
| its-summertime wrote:
| I go to a mechanic, ask them to give my car a look at. They do
| so, and then give me a report of the work to be done.
| jdudkeidnn wrote:
| I'm not quite following...this would be equivalent to a
| manager asking a dev what work needs to be done (I think).
| Which is good and healthy - and requires the manager to
| understand the report (as well as have a record of it, so no
| need for a brag doc). If they're unable to understand it,
| they're not suited to evaluate that report.
|
| Nearly every time I've needed work done on a car different
| mechanics give me different lists. It's pretty expensive when
| I'm unable to evaluate those reports because I don't
| understand cars.
| xboxnolifes wrote:
| Managers aren't "going to a mechanic". They are managing the
| entire shop. If they are managing the shop and don't know
| what the mechanics are doing, then they aren't doing much
| managing.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| I've never seen a manager, let alone a director or even VP
| that manages the entire shop when it comes to software.
| mhss wrote:
| > Management that is not deeply aware of what their reports are
| doing is either unnecessary or incompetent.
|
| I am biased as a manager, but, for context, I was a senior IC
| for a long time before management though. I also transitioned
| first being a TL/manager "deeply aware" (reviewing most PRs,
| coding large parts myself, etc) and then eventually as a more
| traditional manager.
|
| Sometimes management can be unnecessary or incompetent, but
| also you're excluding the possibility of companies trying to
| find a reasonable organizational balance of management costs. A
| manager that is deeply aware or involved, is also a manager
| that cannot manage more than maybe 5-6 people. If you want a
| manager to manage more people and focus in coaching, cross-team
| dependencies, unclogging stuck projects, roadmap building, etc;
| you rarely can have a manager doing IC work still and that
| means they cannot be involved in every PR or conversation their
| team is involved. If you give autonomy to the team members to
| make decisions and progress, by definition you won't be
| involved nor "deeply aware" all the time. Your 1:1s are an
| opportunity to address this divergence and a brag document
| helps feed your 1:1 with your manager to bring them up to date.
| bastardoperator wrote:
| They're called reports for a reason, they report back to you.
| When you hire capable professionals, they tell you what time it
| is and what support they need. The entire purpose of management
| is to ensure success of the IC and team not to be a mind reader
| or micromanager.
| zallarak wrote:
| Ironically I think these types of exercises are part of the
| problem at major software companies; terrible efficiency and over
| hiring.
|
| Because you need to "brag" to get rewarded, everyone ambitious
| has a list. And each list is nearly impossible for middle
| managers to evaluate. Someone may solve a hardcore engineering
| problem that has no business impact. Another person might redo
| some docs. Someone may create a design system version. Lots of
| token achievements, but not real work.
|
| Real work should stand on its own and competent managers should
| be able to identify it. Mediocre managers rely on lists, so then
| people start showing up to work and making lists.
| bananapub wrote:
| > everyone ambitious has a list. And each list is nearly
| impossible for middle managers to evaluate.
|
| have you worked at one of the megacorps you're talking about?
|
| _everyone_ has a list, because their manager gets them to
| write one, and it 's very possible for managers to evaluate
| them because _that is their job_ and they are largely reviewing
| their direct reports while getting bollocked by their peer
| managers.
| mhss wrote:
| > Ironically I think these types of exercises are part of the
| problem at major software companies; terrible efficiency and
| over hiring.
|
| They're not the problem they're a consequence of the problems.
|
| > Because you need to "brag" to get rewarded, everyone
| ambitious has a list. And each list is nearly impossible for
| middle managers to evaluate.
|
| This will be read mostly by your manager not a middle manager.
| It's up to your manager then to represent your accomplishments
| to middle managers and above. Good thorough middle managers
| will still be able to assess them though.
|
| > Another person might redo some docs. Someone may create a
| design system version. Lots of token achievements, but not real
| work.
|
| Competent managers can distinguish between those, if you don't
| have competent managers that's the problem, not the "brag doc".
|
| > Real work should stand on its own and competent managers
| should be able to identify it. Mediocre managers rely on lists,
| so then people start showing up to work and making lists.
|
| No because even competent managers have often a wide span at
| large companies and cannot be involved in the day to day
| details for all the work their team does and things can fall
| through the cracks. This would only be solvable by having first
| line managers have less reports or less manager overhead so
| they can be immersed in their team's work. I have done both,
| but at large companies is often not possible to be immersed in
| the work of all of your reports, no matter how competent you
| are. As mentioned in the article, even _you_ often forget what
| you have done last week.
| jdudkeidnn wrote:
| > Competent managers can distinguish between those
|
| How do you do this without deep knowledge of what your
| reports are doing?
| mhss wrote:
| You can have deep knowledge of a given technology, but
| still not have an understanding of the details of what your
| reports are doing at some point in time in a given project.
| The brag document should include enough detail for the
| manager to understand (e.g PR, design links that the
| manager can review to assess what you did). It's in your
| best interest to keep your manager appraised regularly on
| 1:1s so it's easier for them to catch up and the disconnect
| doesn't go for a very long time.
| dustingetz wrote:
| how can we recognize a competent manager? serious question.
| (Will all the incompetent managers please raise their hand)
| mhss wrote:
| I've had to let go of incompetent managers (I used to
| manage managers). Maybe I am an incompetent manager myself
| that no one has discovered, so take my input with a grain
| of salt.
|
| Competent managers will listen and not jump to conclusions,
| collaborate with you, ask thoughtful questions about your
| work driven by curiosity and not because they want to
| control or micromanage. They will usually be able to catch
| up and understand what you say and the technical work you
| do when you explain it (make an effort and you'll be
| surprised). If there's some tech you work on they do not
| understand they will educate themselves and ask a bunch of
| questions trying to catch up so they can help you and
| assess you fairly.
| mhss wrote:
| A more comprehensive answer about how managers are
| assessed at Google (via Google's project Oxygen):
|
| - Is a good coach
|
| - Empowers the team and does not micromanage
|
| - Expresses interest in and concern for team members'
| success and personal well-being
|
| - Is productive and results-oriented
|
| - Is a good communicator--listens and shares information
|
| - Helps with career development
|
| - Has a clear vision and strategy for the team
|
| - Has key technical skills that help him or her advise
| the team
|
| Your manager should at least be striving to excel at
| those. Different managers will have different strengths,
| but the most important thing IMHO is that they care about
| their team and want to do better.
| RhysU wrote:
| By the sustained impact of their reports on the broader
| business in light of the fiscal resources consumed to
| obtain that impact.
|
| (also, half raises hand).
| tail_exchange wrote:
| If rewriting your docs and solving these hardcore engineering
| problems have zero impact, then you shouldn't do them in the
| first place. If these changes are important, then they do have
| impact, but the engineers likely don't know how to communicate
| it.
|
| Learning to communicate impact is difficult, but it's a really
| good skill to have. Do these doc changes/engineering problems
| help reduce KTLO? Does it reduce on-call toil? Is it going to
| bring security patches? Is it going to make the system more
| efficient and save money? Are these frequently asked features?
| Do you have other people (preferably seniors) who can vouch in
| favour of these changes? All these things are measurable and
| can be communicated as impact.
| icholy wrote:
| At my company we have a shared "wins" document where team members
| add entries for things they're proud of. It's annoying to
| maintain, but it's definitely been helpful when asking for a
| raise.
| User23 wrote:
| I don't keep a brag document, but I do keep a daily journal of
| what I've done. It certainly makes 1:1s considerably less
| stressful. And it does make it easier to pad out a promo packet
| too.
| ttymck wrote:
| Are your 1:1s primarily a way for you to share what you did
| last week?
| euroderf wrote:
| Marketers shall inherit the Earth. Including self-marketers.
| flir wrote:
| That's a CV.
| striking wrote:
| Love this article so much. The only thing I'd add is that Slack
| is a really nice way to collect braggable items. Just forward
| brags to a private channel. Invite your manager if you want.
| justinlloyd wrote:
| 9,999 people out of 10,000 telling you "don't do this, if your
| manager doesn't know what you did 10 months ago, the manager
| isn't doing their job" would have difficulty telling me what they
| had for breakfast last Tuesday.
|
| Keep a log of your work. In fact, keep a log of everything you
| do. It gives you a sense of accomplishment, it gives you an idea
| of where your year went, and it lets you refer back to key
| highlights during your negotiations for a raise or promotion.
|
| You think your memory is bad? There is not an organization out
| there that will ever recognize anything you ever did beyond the
| last sprint planning session or Jira ticket you closed. I've yet
| to work for a manager, ever, that hasn't required a hard push to
| hit a deadline for months on end, only to then forget that effort
| and opine that you took off early on Friday. They'll remember the
| extended lunch you took yesterday, they'll forget you worked 19
| days straight without a day off, whether it is a large tech
| organization or a small start-up of six people.
|
| I am sure many of you will no doubt attempt to regale me with
| tales of awesome managers who made sure to give you "atta boy"
| pats and remembered that thing you did when it came to year-end
| review, but those stellar managers are few and far between, and
| most of us will never get to encounter such a rare shiny
| creature.
|
| So don't be like all those times in college when you thought to
| yourself "I don't need to write this down, I'll remember it",
| because you won't.
| dang wrote:
| Related:
|
| _Get your work recognized: write a brag document (2019)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32236407 - July 2022 (1
| comment)
|
| _Get your work recognized: write a brag document (2019)_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28612015 - Sept 2021 (3
| comments)
|
| _Get your work recognized: write a brag document_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25727976 - Jan 2021 (1
| comment)
|
| _Get your work recognized: write a brag document_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20665225 - Aug 2019 (78
| comments)
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