[HN Gopher] Farewell, Java stingaree: Scientist declare the firs...
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       Farewell, Java stingaree: Scientist declare the first marine fish
       extinction
        
       Author : rwmj
       Score  : 42 points
       Date   : 2023-12-31 14:12 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.mongabay.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.mongabay.com)
        
       | squiffsquiff wrote:
       | So there was a single specimen ever seen - in 1862. Can we really
       | be confident that this was a separate species and not some
       | mutation of some other species?
        
         | cogwheel wrote:
         | Right? How long was it until they figured out that one
         | triceratops was a juvenile rather than a separate species?
         | 
         | Though if they still have dna from that specimen it should be
         | pretty easy to tell
        
         | themerone wrote:
         | This was my first thought as an armchair expert. I'm sure the
         | real experts have considered this possibility.
        
           | nycticorax wrote:
           | I'm sure they've considered it, but have they considered it
           | _enough_? I dunno, the back-and-forth over the extinction
           | status of the ivory-billed woodpecker gave me pause about
           | this sort of thing. It was considered extinct for many years,
           | then was declared not-extinct based on a single video of a
           | single bird flying away from the observer at a fair distance
           | through the trees. (Or at least that was the only  'hard'
           | evidence. There were also testimonials from expert
           | ornithologists that they had seen it, and/or heard its call.)
           | All of this made me think that the standard of evidence for
           | these things is not all that high.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | I was very much hoping to read in the article that they'd
         | managed to extract some DNA and sequence it. I guess if that
         | was still possible then we'd also be able to know how closely
         | related it is to the other stingarees and rays.
        
         | pvaldes wrote:
         | Not. Could be an hybrid but also a totally original species. We
         | can't be really sure
         | 
         | DNA tests would be unreliable. This ray has being swimming in
         | formaldehyde for more than a thousand years; The DNA is damaged
         | beyond recognizable and many morphological aspects could had
         | been seriously damaged also (Specially if improperly fixed).
         | 
         | stingrays are specially sensitive to overfishing, but we need
         | to remember that 90% of the ocean is still basically unknown,
         | and the number of marine biologists expert in this family
         | are... like four or so for the whole area?.
        
         | andrewflnr wrote:
         | It sounds like the species was well known to the locals at the
         | time, for it to be a "delicacy". In that case it would have
         | been a distinct species with noticeable numbers at some point
         | before 1862.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | No, a single specimen was catalogued by a scientist.
         | 
         | > Coming upon a strange little stingray, a popular delicacy in
         | Indonesia, Martens purchased the dead fish.
         | 
         | It was apparently fairly widely eaten and prized as food.
        
       | i8comments wrote:
       | .
        
         | mannykannot wrote:
         | !
        
       | kleiba wrote:
       | I wonder how many other species of marine fish have gone extinct
       | due to other factors/evolution.
        
         | irrational wrote:
         | Are you thinking about the times when something like 90% of all
         | species on the planet went extinct?
        
           | FrustratedMonky wrote:
           | Was that the time algae took off, covered the oceans, and
           | oxygenated the atmosphere? Which then allowed mammals and
           | eventually humans, because then there was oxygen. The
           | byproduct being a huge mass extinction of everything that
           | could not survive in oxygen.
           | 
           | I often think humans are like the algae, the human species is
           | just naturally overtaking the planet and producing CO2 like
           | the algae created oxygen. We're terraforming Earth for the
           | next species that will evolve out of it when we are gone.
        
           | kleiba wrote:
           | Yeah, exactly.
        
       | palemoonale wrote:
       | "We don't know the species' range around Indonesia. We don't know
       | anything about its reproduction, though its closest relatives are
       | slow breeders and therefore vulnerable to overfishing and other
       | threats."
       | 
       | "The Java stingaree was _likely_ pushed to extinction by
       | "unregulated fishing," according to Constance, who said fishing
       | pressure was so high that catches of many species were already
       | dropping in the Javan Sea by the 1870s. "
       | 
       | Color me impressed about science then.
        
       | yetanother12345 wrote:
       | > the first marine fish extinction
       | 
       | I have one problem with this wording:
       | 
       | I feel confident that as an absolute minimum several thousands of
       | fish species (even "marine fish" species) have faced extinction
       | throughout history and prehistory.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-31 23:02 UTC)