[HN Gopher] Android developers no longer need Windows USB drivers
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Android developers no longer need Windows USB drivers
Author : titaniumtown
Score : 145 points
Date : 2023-12-30 09:29 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (fabiensanglard.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (fabiensanglard.net)
| Semaphor wrote:
| That explains it, I was wondering why things suddenly worked. Not
| just relevant for devs, but also people who want a better and/or
| more private android experience than what vendors offer.
| 8organicbits wrote:
| Do you have a good method for cleaning things up? I usually
| factory reset any new phone and then uninstall via adb the
| obvious pre-installed spyware/adware/junk (facebook, chrome,
| candycrush, etc). But it's hard to know what else I can
| uninstall. I usually go overkill, uninstall most things, see
| what broke, factory reset again, and then uninstall a little
| less on the next round. But surely there's a better way.
| Semaphor wrote:
| I unlock the bootloader and install a custom rom (pretty much
| exclusively LineageOS nowadays, I'd try GrapheneOS, but I'd
| have to spend far more on the phone than I'm willing to get
| that). That is everything cleaned ;) I only buy phones with
| LineageOS support.
| pxeboot wrote:
| GrapheneOS is no harder to install or use than LineageOS.
| If anything, it is easier, since the documentation is far
| better and almost always applicable to all supported
| devices.
| Semaphor wrote:
| It's not about hard/easy, it's the supported devices. I
| spend very little on phones (current one is a OnePlus
| Nord, which I bought for 250EUR) as I don't like to use
| them.
| 8organicbits wrote:
| Graphene is Google Pixel only still. The current cheapest
| available looks like the Pixel 7A at PS379 (new). So I
| agree, the added cost doesn't seem worth it.
|
| https://store.google.com/config/pixel_7a
| Xeamek wrote:
| Does it come with it's own version of the 'core apps'
| (calendar, phone, calculator etc.) or do You install and
| use some third party apps from app store?
| Tade0 wrote:
| You can install a custom Google Apps package, e.g.:
|
| https://nikgapps.com/
| Xeamek wrote:
| At that point why would I go for the trouble of
| installing custom rom though?
| scns wrote:
| Because you can choose how many of them you want. None,
| only the Play Store or the whole shebang.
| Semaphor wrote:
| Besides what sibling said, and lack of bloatware, I find
| LineageOS to simply be better than original ROMs. Just
| using vol up/down to move the cursor is already a godsend
| for me.
|
| I've also been using CyanogenMod/LineageOS since my first
| android (HTC Desire Z/T-Mobile G2, damn do I miss that
| full keyboard) and it's great to be able to always use
| the same OS.
| opan wrote:
| You'll get AOSP versions of the basics, though some
| things like the camera app might actually be
| made/modified by Lineage. I run LineageOS with no gapps
| and find it to be quite usable. I get most apps from
| F-Droid, but there's also Aurora Store (installable from
| F-Droid) if you need anything from the Play Store.
| tjoff wrote:
| Or if you want to use scrcpy, which I find indispensable.
|
| https://github.com/Genymobile/scrcpy
| yonatan8070 wrote:
| Scrcpy is an awesome tool, but I never found a use for it in
| my workflow (built a couple of small, unpublished Android
| apps)
|
| What do you use it for that makes it better than just picking
| up your device?
| sir_brickalot wrote:
| I just had a strong use case: a broken screen.
|
| A combination of Google Assistant, Talkback, USB-C-to-USB-
| A-Adapter and Keyboard, a Bluetooth keyboard, scrcpy,
| Anydesk and a new Pixel phone for practicing helped get
| some data off the device and even do a migration to the new
| phone. Needed all of the above and a lot of trial and error
| and time!!
| tjoff wrote:
| I do most of my meetings on my phone, and enlarging the
| screen if someone is sharing their screen works pretty well
| (it's not perfect, but more than enough for presentations).
| But I can of course transfer the call to my PC if need be.
|
| But I just have scrcpy up in a window on one of my
| screens/workspace constantly. The keyboard shortcuts work
| quite well and I don't have to break my flow just to do
| something on my phone. Clipboard is synced as well.
|
| If I get a notification I can check what it is about
| without taking my hands of my keyboard etc.
|
| I'm sure it sounds a bit convoluted, and each usecase
| (meetings, notifications etc.) have other better/more-
| native solutions but the experience all in all is a game-
| changer.
|
| To the point where "just picking up your device" is too
| much of a bother. Why not do it through scrcpy instead?
| Quicker, proper keyboard etc. and the mouse works really
| well. To the point where I kind of miss right-click is
| "back" when I'm outside the scrcpy window.
| nodja wrote:
| TL;DR: Android only needs winusb to work, before Windows 8 (2012)
| windows only used Vendor ID and Product ID to decide what driver
| to load, so you had to install a new .inf driver file for every
| new device. Newer versions ask the device for a Microsoft OS
| Descriptors (MOD) payload that tell windows what drivers to load,
| usually winusb and MTP. The devices need to support this, the
| author says the pixels started supporting this since the Pixel 2
| (2017).
| cylemons wrote:
| > windows only used Vendor ID and Product ID to decide what
| driver to load
|
| Even if you plug in standard device classes like HID?
| grishka wrote:
| I remember being annoyed at this. However, this was a solved
| problem a long time ago -- sometime after I switched to macOS and
| stopped paying attention to the Windows side of things, there
| started appearing universal ADB drivers.
| diggan wrote:
| I remember being annoyed at this too, then I stopped doing
| Android development so I also consider it a solved problem.
| GlacierFox wrote:
| I remember being annoyed at the development process in
| general so I stopped developing and now live in stasis inside
| a glass egg.
| faitswulff wrote:
| Do you happen to have a Nix flake for that egg setup?
| nefarious_ends wrote:
| I remember being annoyed in general, but then I ascended
| beyond human emotions and now exist as a being of pure
| logic. I make PWAs instead.
| serf wrote:
| lucky you, personally I just stopped at "I remember being
| annoyed.", and have been stuck here for years.
| dmarinus wrote:
| Android should have used HID to have better compatibility with
| Windows. But I guess the Android developers were on Linux so it
| wasn't such a big problem for them. Glad it's fixed on Windows
| now.
| iforgotpassword wrote:
| (ab)using hid for anything it's not been designed for usually
| is a pita, especially if you want decent throughput.
| pjmlp wrote:
| This has been a solved problem for several years now.
| FpUser wrote:
| I used raw HID protocol in my USB connected device. This worked
| on all versions of Windows. Granted it is not suitable for every
| need but worked just fine for my case.
| marcodiego wrote:
| The USB driver scene on windows is confusing and sometimes even
| dangerous. I've seen some students unable to use Arduino clones
| on windows when they worked perfectly on Linux. I then found
| this: https://learnarduinonow.com/2014/10/24/does-windows-ftdi-
| upd... (TLDR: windows auto-installs a driver that will brick your
| device if they think it is "counterfeit") and decided plugging
| something other than a storage device (if you trust the system to
| be free from viruses) on a windows machine is something that
| should be done as a last resort only.
| karmakaze wrote:
| Link for reference:
|
| > Bingxing Wang's awesome driver[0].
|
| _Windows Precision Touchpad Implementation for Apple MacBook
| family /Magic Trackpad 2_
|
| [0] https://github.com/imbushuo/mac-precision-touchpad
| refulgentis wrote:
| Karmakaze is very apt ;) -- taking the quote, which is a link,
| and extracting it to a comment with the link "for reference",
| but really it's to harvest karma from people who didn't read
| the article
| fragmede wrote:
| And then, you pointing it out so you can get in on the karma
| train as well! And then this comment, made just for the
| points, which are worth so much that I'm trading in my cheap
| car for a flashy new one next week!
| karmakaze wrote:
| Akshully.. it's my way of bookmarking/remembering this for
| later when I'll want it again And thought it might be useful
| to highlight (or discuss).
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| I was using that for years.
|
| Apple _hates their own customers_ for not having written that
| themselves, and forcing us to use some half-assed driver
| included in Bootcamp that made the whole thing seem state-of-
| the-art circa Windows 98.
|
| That said, my MBPr eventually phased out of Windows support
| (Intel GPU drivers aged out; more and more apps were
| losing/removing acceleration features due to
| (unfixed/unfixable) driver and hw bugs, didn't meet Win11 CPU
| requirements but ran Win11 fine), it now runs Linux with
| Waylandized KDE; Linux supports the entire feature set of these
| trackpads without any work).
|
| But yeah, imbushuo is doing some serious work and deserves
| recognition.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| I always thought apple provided crap drivers to make macOS
| look better. They also drop driver support way too quickly
| and go out of their way to block boot Camp installations with
| Windows versions that are newer than they 'support' (whatever
| little their support is actually worth)
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| Bootcamp is a joke. Every Intel Mac runs a complete EFI
| impl based on the stock Intel one, and can just boot
| Windows without Bootcamp.
|
| Also the only way to install using GPT, as Bootcamp's
| bootloader hides the GPT header (and OSX uses 2 out of the
| 4 MBR partition slots) and forces Window to use "legacy
| single partition mode", which means no Bitlockering C:\ as
| the EFI boot partition (required since Vista, no matter if
| it is a EFI/GPT or Legacy Bios/MBR machine) is where ntldr
| lives now (same way in the MBR days you had /boot on a
| different unecrypted partition, so you can boot linux, load
| the initrd, and then unlock the root partition); Windows
| uses 3 partitions, EFI boot, C:\, and the recovery
| partition.
|
| Once I realized that, I blanked the entire disk, and purged
| OSX forever. I made that decision 10 years ago (the MBPr is
| still alive!), and I never looked back.
| ineptech wrote:
| No longer, as of when? I was working on this exact problem two
| days ago, using an old Lenovo M7 for a magic mirror project for a
| gift. I went through every relevant SO article and gave up
| without getting it to show up for adb, so it's odd to see this
| declared a solved problem.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| Requires the device to support the extended USB information
| query. Pixel devices do, at least, presumably your random
| Lenovo doesn't though for some reason so you'd need a "driver"
| (even though all the INF does is say "use the standard winusb
| driver")
| wkat4242 wrote:
| I really love adb. It's so damn useful. You can even reroute
| ports through a VPN running on the phone. It's like a swiss army
| knife. And I'm not even an android developer lol
|
| It's one of the biggest reasons I prefer android. That and the
| work profile that allows me to compartmentalise all work stuff
| and other privacy invading shit without needing a second phone.
| dotancohen wrote:
| Tell us more about this work profile. Is this on all Android
| phones?
| vetinari wrote:
| It should be nowadays; but to provision it, you need MDM.
|
| https://www.android.com/enterprise/work-profile/
| lern_too_spel wrote:
| Not necessarily.
|
| https://github.com/googlesamples/android-testdpc
|
| https://gitea.angry.im/PeterCxy/Shelter
|
| https://secure-system.gitlab.io/Insular/
| wkat4242 wrote:
| No you don't! You can just use the island (or insular) app
| to leverage it for your own purposes
| mmh0000 wrote:
| https://source.android.com/docs/devices/admin/multi-user
|
| https://sensepost.com/blog/2020/multiple-android-user-
| profil...
| wkat4242 wrote:
| It is yes. It's a separate profile which is open at the same
| time as the regular profile (unlike the multi user function
| of Android where only one is open at the same time)
|
| It separates your app list and files into two sections, work
| and personal. The work apps get a briefcase overlay icon.
|
| I use it to separate my work apps and to shield privacy
| invading apps from my main profile. You can use the insular
| or island apps to invoke it on pretty much any phone. Even
| AOSP has it. MDM can also invoke it, which is what it's
| intended for.
|
| It also allows you to turn off the whole work profile with
| one button. Great if you do use it for work and you want to
| have a quiet weekend. The benefit for your employer is that
| it stops you from copying work data to private apps.
|
| If you do use it for work it stops your employer from seeing
| your personal side like what apps you have installed. This
| can be pretty privacy invasive. For example if you have
| tinder or Grindr installed. I work in MDM management and on
| apple I can see this. On Android when work profile is used I
| can't.
| inemesitaffia wrote:
| I've been using wireless adb since 4.4
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