[HN Gopher] Malware abuses Google OAuth endpoint to 'revive' coo...
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       Malware abuses Google OAuth endpoint to 'revive' cookies, hijack
       accounts
        
       Author : schalkneethling
       Score  : 73 points
       Date   : 2023-12-29 16:22 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
        
       | rolph wrote:
       | zombie session cookies
       | 
       | https://www.infostealers.com/article/lumma-malware-can-alleg...
        
         | ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
         | Straight to the source:
         | 
         | https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/malware-dev-s...
        
       | tyoma wrote:
       | Seems bad that the cookies are still valid after password
       | rotation.
       | 
       | Relatedly, is this another instance of HN serving as de-facto
       | Google tech support/customer service?
        
         | throwaway892238 wrote:
         | It's not just bad, it's a fundamental failure of security. The
         | effect is the same as a password that can't be changed. It
         | might still be possible for users to manually delete active
         | sessions in some Google account management page, but nobody in
         | the world would expect they'd need to do that after changing
         | their password.
        
           | kevin_nisbet wrote:
           | Yea, I equate it to part of security theater.
           | 
           | I worked on a product that rotated the TLS certificate
           | frequently. And it actually showed up a number of times in
           | questions from customers or vendor security questionnaires
           | about whether we rotated the certificates and how that
           | happened.
           | 
           | But what we were never asked was whether old certificates
           | were cancelled... which in that system they were not. So it
           | didn't matter how many times we rotated our secrets, any old
           | or leaked secret in a backup or elsewhere was still
           | completely valid. But we had met the security theater that
           | those rotations happened.
           | 
           | So I expect what you do, is that changing a password would
           | cancel all sessions using that credential. But that's kind of
           | hard to do, so we'll just leave that side buggy and untested,
           | because we did the important part of the theater that said we
           | can change passwords.
        
             | groestl wrote:
             | > So it didn't matter how many times we rotated our secrets
             | 
             | I'm confused, did you rotate your certs or your secrets?
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | The private key of a cert is a secret that is not reused
               | between certs.
        
               | groestl wrote:
               | Says who?
        
               | comprambler wrote:
               | The private key is definitely reused between certs unless
               | you go through a process of rekeying which requires a new
               | CSR.
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | Can you do one without the other? The public key is
               | derived from the secret/private key, so changing one
               | means also changing the other...
        
               | groestl wrote:
               | But a (public key) certificate is not a public key. A
               | cert is a public key A (to private key a), signed by
               | another key b, of which public key B is known. To rotate
               | a cert means resigning the public key A (which is still
               | derived from the same private key a).
               | 
               | Edit: relevant, especially flow2k's answer, which
               | explains why this is _not_ just security theater
               | https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/85963/what-
               | is-t...
        
               | franga2000 wrote:
               | Ah, so basically just renewing before it's due, that
               | makes sense. For some reason it didn't occur to me that
               | rotate could mean that too.
               | 
               | This does still leave the problem of the old certs being
               | valid though. This only makes sense as a security
               | practice if the certs are short-lived, which theirs
               | apparently weren't. If the certs live much longer than
               | the rotation window, this really is just security
               | theatre.
               | 
               | I do think thaumasiotes has a point and GP's company
               | probably misinterpreted the rotation requirements and
               | short lifespans were implied in the requirement.
        
               | groestl wrote:
               | > If the certs live much longer than the rotation window,
               | this really is just security theatre.
               | 
               | That's very true.
               | 
               | > and GP's company probably misinterpreted the rotation
               | requirements and short lifespans were implied in the
               | requirement.
               | 
               | Or GP didn't know that the company was indeed using short
               | expiration times, and somehow confused it with
               | certificate revocation (called "cancelled" in the post).
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | > But what we were never asked was whether old certificates
             | were cancelled... which in that system they were not. So it
             | didn't matter how many times we rotated our secrets, any
             | old or leaked secret in a backup or elsewhere was still
             | completely valid. But we had met the security theater that
             | those rotations happened.
             | 
             | Huh? You haven't "rotated" your credentials until the old
             | ones are invalidated. Adding new credentials isn't a
             | rotation.
        
           | hanniabu wrote:
           | After you change your password I think there's a setting you
           | can use to kick off existing connections
        
         | wannacboatmovie wrote:
         | You act as if it's a bug, not an intentional feature - so
         | Google can continue to track you in perpetuity.
        
           | kevin_nisbet wrote:
           | I doubt google needs to use this as a feature for tracking.
           | 
           | Even if we argued that this was for tracking purposes, google
           | could keep the cookie for tracking and just deny access to
           | the services until a login flow was completed.
        
             | ksjskskskkk wrote:
             | loging in serves as giving them authorization to track you
             | under jurisdiction where they cannot just track you by any
             | means available
        
         | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
         | Why?
         | 
         | Im all for terminating sessions if the user wants it, but there
         | are valid reasons to change passwords without knowledge of a
         | breach.
         | 
         | Fwiw, terminating old sessions can be pretty hard in SSO
         | systems and similar, though.
        
           | skybrian wrote:
           | It's bad because when someone suspects unauthorized access to
           | their account, the first thing anyone recommends is to change
           | your password. If the old cookies keep working, changing your
           | password doesn't help.
        
       | elric wrote:
       | Given how many times I've heard of people being locked out of
       | their Google accounts, and are only able to regain access because
       | they're still logged in on some rarely used device, I imagine
       | that Google would lose a bunch of users if they suddenly started
       | to expire those cookies.
        
         | kevin_b_er wrote:
         | They are already expired. That's the problem.
        
         | fbdab103 wrote:
         | I deliberately keep around an old Android phone in the event
         | disaster strikes there is a teeny chance that logged in device
         | might save me.
         | 
         | If the Google machine decides to cull me, probably nothing I
         | can do, but it costs me nothing to keep it sitting in a drawer.
        
           | Erratic6576 wrote:
           | Back in the 2000's, we were dreaming of what would come next
           | from Google. Then, in the 2010's, we started to wonder what
           | would be discontinued. Now, in 2020's, we dread being locked
           | out of Google accounts. I closed mine during the lockdown. My
           | school cancelled my huge Cryptomator backup on Google. Now,
           | work provides me with one but I can no longer rely on Google
           | for anything crucial.
        
           | skybrian wrote:
           | Printing out backup codes [1] and keeping them with your
           | important papers is probably a good idea too.
           | 
           | [1] https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/1187538
        
         | franga2000 wrote:
         | Could they just...stop locking us out of our accounts? For some
         | reason, even knowing the password, being on a device+network
         | combination I've used a dozen times before and entering a login
         | code generated on an already-logged-in device still isn't
         | enough to prove my right to use the account these days...
        
           | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
           | I think there's a functional bug with very early (2006)
           | accounts due to MFA or something.
           | 
           | Good thing google has a high quality help desk to report bugs
           | /s
        
       | rezonant wrote:
       | X for Doubt. There's almost no details that are useful in this
       | article, and in this case, the authors indicating Google isn't
       | doing anything about it is likely because this isn't actually
       | true.
       | 
       | Of course maybe I'm wrong but short of some more compelling
       | technical details (reply a link if there's a better source), I'm
       | inclined to doubt the characterization of this article.
       | 
       | EDIT: Sibling linked
       | https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/malware-abuse...
       | which is more technical.
        
         | 8organicbits wrote:
         | I generally believe it. Google's security team has been lax on
         | cookie security. I reported an issue earlier this year about
         | non-expiring session cookies; they said it was previously
         | reported in 2019. The bug remains [1]. Sadly other Google
         | projects use this code...
         | 
         | Historically they've been quick to patch things I've reported,
         | so it feels like a decline.
         | 
         | [1] https://github.com/googleapis/nodejs-firestore-
         | session/issue...
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-30 23:00 UTC)