[HN Gopher] Toyota-owned automaker tampered with safety tests fo...
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       Toyota-owned automaker tampered with safety tests for 30 years
        
       Author : tmalsburg2
       Score  : 57 points
       Date   : 2023-12-29 19:27 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.cnn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.cnn.com)
        
       | mertbio wrote:
       | I recently read that another Toyoto-owned brand Suzuki is selling
       | rusty cars in Turkey. It is sad to see a brand like Toyota is
       | associated with a lot of misdoings.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Toyota owns less than 5% of Suzuki.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | How does that go on for over 30 years without anyone notifying
       | corporate or regulators?
       | 
       | Or did people speak up, but the pattern wasn't stopped (until it
       | had been going on for 30 years)?
        
         | pas wrote:
         | Japan has a strong culture of "don't rock the boat, be sure,
         | very very sure if you accuse someone", and thus accusations are
         | already sentences practically. Couple this with any kind of
         | loyalty, and you immediately see that speaking up will get
         | folks excommunicated (ronins, woah!)
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk
         | 
         | So, probably they kept quiet on the first failed test, made it
         | go away to save face, and then there was no going back.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | From reading through some of the reports linked in the CNN
         | article, it sounds like in a lot of cases the test employee was
         | taking shortcuts such as reporting results from the left side
         | of the vehicle as results from the right side of the vehicle
         | under the belief that there was no substantive difference, or
         | not properly adjusting the tire pressure before the test and
         | reporting that it had been adjusted.
         | 
         | It still illustrates that this sort of stuff was either
         | tolerated or not detected, but in all honestly it sounds (to
         | me) like a lot of it was pretty minor stuff. It's not like the
         | car exploded in a raging fireball on the test stand and the
         | reported result was "A++ would buy" like Ford did with the
         | Pinto.
        
           | phonon wrote:
           | "tests on the airbags of Daihatsu Move/Subaru Stella,
           | Daihatsu Cast/Toyota Pixis Joy, Daihatsu Gran Max/Toyota Town
           | Ace/Mazda Bongo revealed the irregularity that the "airbags
           | deployment computer (ECU)" was not the same as that of mass-
           | produced products."
           | 
           | https://www.daihatsu.com/news/2023/20231220-4.html
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | Wikipedia:
       | 
       | > _[Daihatsu] has been a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Toyota
       | Motor Corporation since August 2016._
       | 
       | Did a good company accidentally acquire a company with a very
       | serious secret problem?
        
         | dharmab wrote:
         | Toyota has been a major shareholder of Daihatsu since the late
         | 60s, with veto power since the mid-90s and majority ownership
         | since the late 90s.
        
           | hef19898 wrote:
           | The question is how much control Toyota had over operational
           | decisions. I'd say not too much, even with Daihatsu being a
           | subsidiary of Toyota.
           | 
           | Either way, Daihatsu cheating and lying to pass safety tests
           | for 30 years is bad, and hints at a deep seated culture
           | issue.
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | Lite version: https://lite.cnn.com/2023/12/27/business/daihatsu-
       | japan-prod...
        
         | br0wnr1c3 wrote:
         | unrelated, but can every news site please build a lite version?
         | This opened so fast and was so easy to read. I forgot how nice
         | websites could be with HTML plus some mild CSS.
        
           | ahazred8ta wrote:
           | fwiw, https://text.npr.org/ -
           | https://old.reddit.com/r/news/new/
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _Toyota 's Daihatsu to halt all vehicle shipments as safety
       | scandal widens_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38756044 -
       | Dec 2023 (61 comments)
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | They also just had a real safety recall requiring manual
       | inspection of over a million vehicles.
       | 
       | This, along with their resistance to EVs is going to bite them.
        
         | bbarnett wrote:
         | Resistance to EVs?! They are pioneers!
        
           | antiframe wrote:
           | Pioneers yet I still can't buy a Toyota EV.
        
             | robin_reala wrote:
             | You can buy a bZ4X. I'm not sure why you'd want to, but you
             | can.
             | 
             | https://www.toyota.com/bz4x/
        
             | kwhitefoot wrote:
             | Why not? They are for sale in Norway:
             | https://www.toyota.no/nybil/bz4x
             | 
             | Are they not sold where you are?
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | ...and no one really cared? Maybe that's the real takeaway here.
       | 
       | After all, I'm not sure those who are looking for the safest car
       | would put Toyota near the top of their lists anyway. Volvo comes
       | to mind instead.
        
       | charles_f wrote:
       | > Toyota-owned automaker
       | 
       | This is a bit of a weasel-ish, click-bait title. Calling it
       | Daihatsu would not generate the same outrage, so they try to
       | virtually inflate the scale of the scandal to a major car
       | manufacturer.
       | 
       | Maybe Toyota has their hands dirty, I don't know, and I'd love to
       | know. As it is, that's bordering a little on the wrong side of
       | journalistic integrity.
        
         | giarc wrote:
         | So probably better would be "Daihatsu, maker of Toyota
         | vehicles, tampered with safety tests for 30 years"
        
         | csande17 wrote:
         | > The scandal is another blow to the automaker, which had
         | admitted in April to violating standards on crash tests on more
         | than 88,000 cars, mostly sold under the Toyota brand in
         | countries such as Malaysia and Thailand.
         | 
         | Seems fair to mention Toyota in the headline, since that was
         | the brand name people thought they were buying when they got
         | one of these cars.
        
         | woodruffw wrote:
         | > Calling it Daihatsu would not generate the same outrage, so
         | they try to virtually inflate the scale of the scandal to a
         | major car manufacturer.
         | 
         | I think this is probably because most news readers don't know
         | the name Daihatsu, not because they're trying to inflate the
         | scandal.
        
       | freetime2 wrote:
       | I recently ordered a new car from Daihatsu, and they called and
       | asked if I still want the car or would like to cancel the order
       | in light of this news.
       | 
       | I'm honestly not that concerned about the safety of the vehicle.
       | They've been cheating on safety tests for a long time apparently,
       | and in the real world I don't think Daihatsu cars have fared much
       | worse than other manufacturers in crashes. It's also got a lot
       | more safety tech than the car it is replacing, so I think it
       | would be a step up in safety regardless.
       | 
       | Instead I'm more just concerned with the future of the company,
       | whether the resale value of the car will drop, etc. I also do
       | find the scale of this fraud pretty shocking, and don't want to
       | reward this behavior by purchasing from them.
       | 
       | So probably I will cancel and buy a Honda or Suzuki instead.
        
       | csours wrote:
       | 1967: Toyota became a "major shareholder" of Daihatsu
       | 
       | 1995: Toyota ownership increased from 16.8% -> 33.4%
       | 
       | 1998: 51.2%
       | 
       | 2016: 100%
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daihatsu#:~:text=Daihatsu%20wa....
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-29 23:01 UTC)