[HN Gopher] Tallest wooden wind turbine starts turning
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Tallest wooden wind turbine starts turning
Author : andsoitis
Score : 35 points
Date : 2023-12-29 10:25 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
| Baldbvrhunter wrote:
| Some turbine facts for reference
|
| For a typical onshore wind turbine, the tower can contain
| approximately 295 tons of steel
|
| The concrete footings are usually 9 feet thick and 60 feet in
| diameter, requiring about 300 cubic yards of concrete, which is
| equivalent to 30 to 40 truckloads.
|
| The blades have a 20 year lifespan and cannot be recycled, being
| made from fiberglass reinforced with plastic, also known as glass
| fiber reinforced polymer (GFRP). With newer ones also
| incorporating carbon fiber.
|
| All that said, for a turbine to produce enough clean electricity
| to offset the carbon emissions produced during its manufacturing,
| installation, and maintenance, is typically around 7 to 8 months.
| cjbenedikt wrote:
| "....to offset the carbon emissions produced during its
| manufacturing, installation, and maintenance, is typically
| around 7 to 8 months." Finally a clear statement. Never found
| one like that for DAC. Massive steel and concrete buildings and
| no answer to exactly that question: how long does it take to
| recover the CO2 footprint of building these structures.
| Baldbvrhunter wrote:
| for wind turbines
|
| https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2021/06/whats-the-
| carbon-...
|
| https://www.siemensgamesa.com/en-
| int/explore/journal/uniting...
| Xiol32 wrote:
| Unfortunely it seems these 'wooden turbines' also use
| fibreglass blades, which is a shame.
| mschild wrote:
| Not all of them.
|
| https://electrek.co/2022/11/16/wind-turbines-made-
| entirely-o...
| adwi wrote:
| Very interesting. On average how long until financial break-
| even, in terms of total investment vs value of electricity
| produced/sold?
| CapitalistCartr wrote:
| Sixty feet in dia. x 9 feet thick is about 950 yards.
| jetrink wrote:
| They are more cone-shaped than cylindrical.
|
| 1. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Illustration-of-the-
| rein...
| Faaak wrote:
| IMHO we should also look at EROI (energy return on investment),
| which Wikipedia cites [0] to be around ~20, that is a wind
| turbine will produce 20 times what it cost to make it.
|
| [0]:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_return_on_investment#Wi...
| jauntywundrkind wrote:
| The point here that the wooden wind turbine is carbon
| negative is also a good one (where-as steel and concrete are
| a big carbon positive) is also worth tracking.
|
| I do wish I had a little better idea what the costs of wood
| were. There have to be nutrients and other resources
| consumed, that wood takes to produce. I'd love to better
| appreciate the material flow of wood.
| Brybry wrote:
| Also since it's laminated veneer lumber (LVL) and glued
| laminated timber (GLT) [1] it's going to have
| resins/adhesives involved that have an impact as well.
|
| Probably still better than the cement in concrete but I
| don't have a source for that.
|
| [1]
| https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/1660496/windtech-
| wh...
| dylan604 wrote:
| I don't know if your listing these as "fun" facts, or as a
| means to try to denigrate wind turbines. If it pays for itself
| in 7-8 months while operating for 20 years that's 3% of its
| lifespan. That's 232 months of clean energy being generated.
| That's impressive to me. So I don't know what your intent is
| here, but I'm on board for all of it as a good thing
| russdill wrote:
| That and it's just the lifetime rating for the blades, not
| the foundation, tower, and hub
| Baldbvrhunter wrote:
| honestly - I was compiling the facts thinking it was going to
| be much more time for ROI and was happy to have my
| assumptions invalidated.
|
| I'm pro-wind turbine though.
| dukeyukey wrote:
| > and cannot be recycled
|
| This myth just won't disappear.
|
| Fiberglass isn't easy to recycle, but we absolutely can and do:
|
| https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/articles/carbon-rivers-make...
|
| https://www.siemensgamesa.com/en-int/newsroom/2021/09/launch...
|
| https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/energy-explained/can-wi...
| skyfaller wrote:
| Paging Low-Tech Magazine! I wonder how they feel about these
| partly wooden turbines:
|
| https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/06/reinventing-the-sm...
|
| https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2019/06/how-to-make-wind-p...
|
| I expect they would be disappointed that it's not all wood, and
| also skeptical of these being mass-produced with engineered wood
| rather than made by local artisans out of regular wood. Can the
| wood parts be recycled or composted? What happens at the end of
| life?
|
| To quote Low-Tech Mag on composite blades, "The environmental
| damage of the carbon-epoxy spars can be viewed as acceptable, if
| compared to the larger damage done by conventional wind turbine
| blades. However, the waste problem would not be solved, and
| further growth in wind power would still result in ever larger
| waste streams."
| kpmcc wrote:
| Possibly a dumb question, but what if this gets struck by
| lightning?
| throwaway24124 wrote:
| Not a dumb question, I'm assuming it's been treated with flame-
| retardant chemicals, but I'm surprised that it's fireproof-ness
| wasn't addressed in the article.
| jagger27 wrote:
| I'm sure they're still electrically grounded. I'd be shocked if
| they didn't have lightning rods, not to mention all of the
| metallic innards like ladders and wiring that would have much
| lower resistance than the wood itself.
| mulmen wrote:
| > As long as the wood doesn't end up rotting or being burned, the
| carbon is not released.
|
| So this is only carbon negative if the trees are net-new and we
| recycle or sequester the wood at the end of the service life.
|
| I'm skeptical of trees as an effective carbon sink for the
| purpose of slowing global warming until we have a way to
| sequester the carbon on geological time scales.
|
| This is a great technology and if wood has a smaller footprint
| than existing material it is a win. I see how wood could be
| carbon neutral. I'm less certain about it being net-negative.
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(page generated 2023-12-29 23:00 UTC)