[HN Gopher] Injection of "smart insulin" regulates blood glucose...
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       Injection of "smart insulin" regulates blood glucose levels for one
       week
        
       Author : ksec
       Score  : 40 points
       Date   : 2023-12-27 16:05 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | ch4s3 wrote:
       | This is really compelling, and the principle seem like it should
       | work in humans. Can anyone with more knowledge of biochemistry
       | think of any reasons why this gluconic acid polymer approach
       | might not work in humans?
        
         | ray__ wrote:
         | Like most cool biotechnology tools like this, the hangups will
         | probably come from ironing out safety, dosing, and delivery
         | issues in the clinic, rather than some mismatch in the
         | biochemistry. They mention one of them in the paper:
         | In the long term, a balance is assumed to be established
         | between the amount of injected PLL-FPBA and cleared PLL-FPBA.
         | Thus, the long-term toxicity of the complex formulation needs
         | to be thoroughly evaluated for clinical translation.
         | 
         | Proving that PLL-FPBA only responds to glucose fluctuation (and
         | no other physiological changes, with a large enough sample size
         | to cover the range of possible physiological changes that could
         | be experienced by patients), proving that it is biocompatible
         | with all patients, proving that the dose-response is uniform
         | and can be correctly tailored in all patients, and then proving
         | that all of these results hold over very long periods of time
         | with material that can be cost-effectively manufactured at
         | scale will probably be the tricky part. There probably aren't
         | any fundamental reasons that the chemistry of the gluconic acid
         | polymer wouldn't work in humans.
         | 
         | Citations 13-40 provide a pretty good overview of the history
         | of glucose-responsive insulins. These ideas are awesome and I
         | hope they can be successful some day, but I also get the
         | impression that engineering improvements (and cost reductions)
         | in insulin pump technology will provide more immediate quality-
         | of-life improvements for the broader Type-1 Diabetic
         | population.
        
           | ch4s3 wrote:
           | Incredibly interesting. This is exactly the sort of comment I
           | was hoping to find on this post!
        
       | 29athrowaway wrote:
       | So if regular insulin is already overpriced, how overpriced will
       | this medication be?
        
         | medstrom wrote:
         | May have a reasonable price in countries where insulin also
         | does.
        
         | EA-3167 wrote:
         | From the article, this is a small animal study involving less
         | than 10 animals, no one knows if this even works in humans or
         | if the benefits seen here will translate into a larger study.
         | 
         | This is so far from being a commercial product that asking
         | about costs means nothing.
        
         | nothercastle wrote:
         | Guess people can visit Canada or Mexico weekly
        
           | RecycledEle wrote:
           | It is against US law to bring insulin back from Mexico.
           | 
           | People still smuggle in a little, but there are penalties if
           | they get caught with a lot of insulin.
           | 
           | I live in Texas, about 12 hours from the Mexican border, so
           | it's not worth the trip.
        
             | copperx wrote:
             | That's misleading. It might be a technical violation, but
             | it is decriminalized. Bringing back a 90-day supply of
             | personal-use non-controlled medications is completely fine.
             | To be safe, carry a prescription and declare the
             | medications at the border.
        
             | nothercastle wrote:
             | Probably does not count for weekly shots administered on
             | the other side of the border
        
         | cccybernetic wrote:
         | Insulin is available at Walmart for about $25. The newer analog
         | versions cost around $80. It's just private label Novo Nordisk,
         | so all high quality.
        
           | ChadNauseam wrote:
           | if this is true, do you know the source of the meme that
           | insulin is extremely expensive for uninsured people in the
           | US?
        
             | annthurium wrote:
             | There are different types of insulin (short acting, long
             | acting) and the cheapest version isn't always best for a
             | specific person depending on their individual situation. If
             | you want more information on the structural factors of the
             | unaffordability of insulin this article could help:
             | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8597930/
        
             | cma wrote:
             | They lowered the price at some point in the few years, at
             | least on some versions.
        
             | RecycledEle wrote:
             | A box of Fiasp or Levemir insulin costs $477-$560.
             | 
             | The better insulins cost more.
             | 
             | If I give myself the $24.88 WalMart insulin, I can not eat
             | lunch at my regular time and then have to eat in the middle
             | if class. (Assuming I had a high blood sugar reading going
             | into lunch and gave myself R an hour before lunch.)
             | 
             | If I can afford the Fiasp, I can go ahead and eat at my
             | regular time. It's just expensive.
        
               | pliny wrote:
               | This is a weird objection because if the expensive
               | insulin did not exist (effective price = $inf) it would
               | not apply.
        
               | steveklabnik wrote:
               | The reality is that before we had these medications, more
               | people just died. Yeah sure in some sense it does not
               | apply, but that's missing the point.
        
             | anonuser123456 wrote:
             | The issue is largely the byzantine structure of the market,
             | making it challenging for less sophisticated consumers to
             | buy cheap insulin.
        
             | steveklabnik wrote:
             | > if this is true
             | 
             | To be clear, your parent is telling the truth in a very
             | literal sense. However, as always, the devil is in the
             | details.
             | 
             | First of all, this is a pretty recent development. The
             | insulins available for cheap at WalMart used to be
             | significantly worse.
             | 
             | The second bit is that wait, how can it be worse? Well,
             | "insulin" isn't always one thing: there are a variety of
             | brands and ways of synthesizing it. They also have
             | different properties. So there are certain things about
             | this specific insulin that may not be great for a variety
             | of reasons. Type 1 folks (I have less experience with type
             | 2, so I just don't speak on it) that have more money or
             | better insurance tend to use two insulins: a long term one,
             | and a short term one. You take the longer term once per
             | day, and then the shorter acting one on a more "as needed"
             | basis. Of course, everyone's health works differently, and
             | so the exact specifics here are between you and your
             | doctor. Anyway, the point is, that this insulin is short-
             | acting, and so to use it correctly, you have less leeway
             | with time and dosage, and that can be rough. And mistakes
             | can be deadly. Josh Wilkerson is a famous example of this
             | in 2019: the insulin his doctor desired for him was gonna
             | be $1200. He opted for taking this WalMart insulin instead,
             | and made a mistake while taking it, due to the differences
             | between it and his previous insulin. For that, he paid for
             | his life.
             | 
             | The third is, this is _still_ inacessible for various
             | reasons, including money. WalMart is not located
             | everywhere. It still costs money to get to WalMart and
             | back. Also, it 's $25 per vial, but that says nothing about
             | other costs too. How many vials do you need for a time
             | period? Depends on the person. And a lot of factors. But
             | let's just spitball one: this bottle has 100 units in it. A
             | starting daily dosage, in my understanding, is like, 0.4-1
             | units per kilogram of body weight. I weigh about 200 lbs.
             | If we take the low end of that range, that would mean I
             | would need roughly 32 units per day. This means I'm using
             | two and a half vials of this per week, at $80/vial that's
             | $200/week or $10,400/year. It really adds up.
             | 
             | This also doesn't take into account other costs: you're
             | gonna be needing to buy test strips as well, so that you
             | can have some idea of how much you need to take. You're
             | also gonna need to buy needles. These are single use. Oh
             | and don't forget that, while you can buy these needles over
             | the counter with no prescription, pharmacists are able to
             | refuse to sell it to you for any reason, say maybe if they
             | think you're going to be using those needles for other
             | kinds of drugs, so you'd better not be in a bad way when
             | you go into the pharmacy, or risk literally having the
             | medicine that allows you to live with no way to put it into
             | your body.
             | 
             | So yeah, like, don't get me wrong, it's a good thing that
             | they sell it. But people like to act all "mission
             | accomplished" about it, when it's just not that simple.
        
             | willio58 wrote:
             | Just adding to what people are saying below, cheaper
             | insulin is really new in the U.S.
             | 
             | It's one of the only price-limited medications, and a major
             | win for the Biden presidency (while it would be nice for
             | this to happen for all drugs)
        
       | Jolliness7501 wrote:
       | I have "type 1" diabetes for 27 years. I hear similar stories
       | like this (revolutionary cure working on animal models) every
       | year or two. Until now non of them worked. I hope this one will
       | be beeter but my expectations are quite low.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-27 23:01 UTC)