[HN Gopher] A list of Hacker News's undocumented features and be...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A list of Hacker News's undocumented features and behaviors
        
       Author : ssgodderidge
       Score  : 286 points
       Date   : 2023-12-26 17:47 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | latchkey wrote:
       | I've noticed a shadowbanned behavior. If you submit a link that
       | is a banned domain, you will notice that the 'discuss' link is
       | missing and the post doesn't show up at all (but you see it).
        
         | ssgodderidge wrote:
         | Any examples? I didn't know about this one
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | Turn on show dead in your profile and visit the "new" link
           | (https://news.ycombinator.com/newest). You'll see a lot of
           | [dead] links, those are the sort GP is referencing.
           | [flagged][dead] are killed by user action (flags).
        
           | bookofjoe wrote:
           | https://www.sciencealert.com/
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | There's lot of articles from this site on HN, including
             | recently. But:
             | 
             | * It seems low-quality, at times almost like the Weekly
             | World News. On HN, we sometimes replace even high-quality
             | science writing with primary sources (when the paper is
             | recent and the writing is just a summary).
             | 
             | * It's high-volume, which is problematic in that it
             | incentivizes users to submit lots and lots of stuff from
             | this one site; front page slots are the scarcest resource
             | on HN and everything competes for it, so high-volume low-
             | mid-quality sites tend to get downweighted.
             | 
             | * It's slathered with ads and bait-y gimmicks.
             | 
             | If there's something on this site that you think would make
             | a good thread for HN, you can probably just find whatever
             | it's blogspamming and submit that instead.
        
       | ulrischa wrote:
       | Is the 501 karma level true? I heard 801?
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | It's 501.
        
       | XCabbage wrote:
       | The list at https://news.ycombinator.com/topcolors is definitely
       | not "the complete set of colors users have set" as claimed. I
       | know this because it doesn't include my top color (namely
       | #64BFBD).
        
         | XCabbage wrote:
         | Perplexingly, my color appeared there shortly after I posted
         | this. Does that link contain colors of recently active users,
         | perhaps?
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Yes; users who have recently posted.
        
             | XCabbage wrote:
             | Ah, nice - so "my color doesn't appear on the list" is a
             | problem that fixes itself automatically when you complain
             | on HN about it!
        
               | dang wrote:
               | A suitably recursive property for an internet forum,
               | which I doubt pg had in mind when he wrote that code.
        
             | sillysaurusx wrote:
             | (For the curious, this is because HN only loads profiles
             | into memory whenever users post. Then they stay in memory
             | until a server reboot, which seems to happen every day or
             | two.)
        
         | dr_kiszonka wrote:
         | Speaking of the top colors, the repo doesn't mention that the
         | color changes to red during Christmas.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | Weird, mine is near the top. I wonder what the sort order is.
        
           | sillysaurusx wrote:
           | It's random. I emailed to submit a patch ordering by
           | popularity and adding caching, but got no answer.
           | 
           | EDIT: You can see for yourself how it's ordered here: https:/
           | /github.com/shawwn/arc/blob/arc3.1/news.arc#L2611-L26...
           | 
           | This is the original code, which survived untouched till at
           | least 2019 or so. I've wondered if they changed it since
           | then.
           | 
           | The key is the (users) function:
           | 
           | https://github.com/shawwn/arc/blob/arc3.1/news.arc#L144-L145
           | 
           | This returns the keys of the profs* hash table (short for
           | "profiles"). At the time, profs was populated each time the
           | server restarts:
           | 
           | https://github.com/shawwn/arc/blob/arc3.1/news.arc#L88-L91
           | 
           | (dir profdir*) essentially returns an `ls` of the directory
           | in which user profiles are stored. (Yes, they are (or were)
           | stored to disk, not a database.) This was one reason it was
           | hard to add a feature to rename users, which Dan somehow
           | figured out.
           | 
           | So it takes the `ls` of that directory, giving a list in
           | mostly random order, and loads them one by one, putting them
           | into a hash table, whose iteration order is also random.
           | 
           | In modern times, profs* is populated in a lazy fashion
           | whenever users post after a server reboot.
           | 
           | Arc uses "maptable" to iterate over a hash table, which under
           | the hood used hash-table-for-each:
           | https://github.com/shawwn/arc/blob/arc3.1/ac.scm#L1082
           | 
           | Nowadays in Racket, it probably uses hash-for-each:
           | https://docs.racket-
           | lang.org/reference/hashtables.html#%28de...
           | 
           | It does have a "try-order?" option, which gives a
           | deterministic ordering if set. But whenever I set it, I
           | sometimes get strange errors, at least on MacOS. Since it's
           | disabled by default, I doubt they set it. Even if they did,
           | it would be ordered alphabetically, which means your topcolor
           | wouldn't be anywhere close to the top unless someone else
           | whose name starts with "a" also set it.
           | 
           | I only know all this because I've spent five years updating
           | Arc for the modern era over at
           | https://github.com/shawwn/sparc
           | 
           | Past discussion:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38586832
        
         | covercash wrote:
         | Mine isn't on the list either - #9db2cbd
        
           | Jtsummers wrote:
           | Drop the extra `d` and it's on there.
        
         | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
         | Didn't know about this list. It's time for a vibe shift, so
         | after a decade I'm switching to #2288ff. Thanks for sharing!
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | I'm grumpy because I am 100% sure that the "automatic
         | downweighing" is applied to me (my comments are often below
         | faded despite multiple upvotes), but it's never been explained.
         | 
         | I'm just guilty without knowing the crime.
        
           | pests wrote:
           | Email dang he can let you know what's going on.
        
           | hamburglar wrote:
           | This actually happened to me when I first signed up and after
           | emailing dang asking why, it went away. I don't think I ever
           | got any actual explanation but I think it must have been some
           | false positive which, once corrected, would never recur.
        
         | sillysaurusx wrote:
         | I once submitted this link to the front page, which promptly
         | took down HN because it had no caching.
         | 
         | I fired off an email to Scott, frantically telling him "I think
         | I took down HN. If you're scrambling to figure out what's
         | wrong, it's because so-and-so story is on the front page, and
         | you can fix it by booting it off." A minute or two later the
         | site came back to life, so I emailed saying "oh, never mind. I
         | guess it was something else." And to my surprise he emailed
         | back saying you were exactly right, thanks.
         | 
         | Presumably they either added caching, prevented it from going
         | to the front page, froze the list for posterity, or it's still
         | a ticking time bomb that can take down HN again if you happen
         | to submit it. Either way, maybe the explanation of your missing
         | topcolor is there somewhere.
        
         | raverbashing wrote:
         | Well, given the name I assume it's a ranking? Though some
         | colors are weird and it would be hard to believe a lot of
         | people use it (like #fafafd or #0082a0 )
         | 
         | And yes my choice is there (#ffaa33)
        
       | aragonite wrote:
       | I'm not sure if this is undocumented, but I've noticed that
       | submitted links sometimes have either the pathname or search
       | parameters portion of their URL truncated or stripped entirely.
       | Sometimes the truncation happens after a slight delay.
       | 
       | For example, if you try to submit a link to a particular Google
       | Books page, say the one I just tried:
       | 
       | https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Albert_Einstein_Col...
       | 
       | the link will remain intact for a short while before losing its
       | search parameters and turning into a link to the book itself
       | rather than to a page in it.
        
         | Jtsummers wrote:
         | Possibly canonical links. HN looks at the submissions and
         | updates the links to the canonical link if present. I'm on
         | mobile so not able to double check the Google books page at the
         | moment, but if you view source check to see if there's a
         | canonical link in there. This also bites some blogging sites
         | that end up with a canonical link to their base
         | http://blog.example.com on all their posts.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_link_element
        
           | aragonite wrote:
           | Just checked and you are exactly right (it's not in the raw
           | source but the element is found in the DOM tree). This
           | explains the delay also!
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Jtsummers's answer is correct, but we turn off canonicalization
         | for some classes of URLs and I think you've found a good
         | example of that. I've exempted Google Books links for the
         | future and put your submitted URL back in
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38774261.
        
           | aragonite wrote:
           | Thanks dang!
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | Minor nit: I've posted about this before, but I wish folks would
       | not refer to dang as a "moderator" or say stuff about "the HN
       | moderators". If anything, I think it's more appropriate to refer
       | to dang as the site admin.
       | 
       | The reason this is a pet peeve of mine is I often see people
       | complaining about "the HN moderators" (e.g. "the HN mods are on a
       | power trip and keep flagging my submissions!" or some such),
       | where they are clearly taking this conceptual model from Reddit,
       | and they seem to think there is a shadowy cabal of "mods" who
       | control what gets downvoted/flagged (and, in fairness, this does
       | and can happen in subreddits). In other words, when you see your
       | submissions being flagged or comments being downvoted or flagged,
       | 99.9% of the time it's not "the HN mods" who are downvoting you.
       | It's just other, normal HN users (who have earned 501+ karma as
       | TFA explains) who simply don't like what you have to say.
       | 
       | Not saying dang _never_ blocks users /comments, but it's
       | exceedingly rare and I've only seen it for the most obnoxiously
       | egregious behavior after (usually multiple) warnings.
        
         | hunter2_ wrote:
         | > and I've only seen it for
         | 
         | Speculation/intuition, but I figure it happens in ways
         | specifically designed to evade the type of detection you're
         | basing your claim on, akin to shadow banning, whereas on Reddit
         | there's often more visible evidence like corpses of deleted
         | comments.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | You can see all of those deleted/flagged comments if you turn
           | on "showdead" in your options.
        
           | gus_massa wrote:
           | You can see the [dead] comments if you go to your profile and
           | enable "showdead". Most of them are very bad, but from time
           | to time you can find a false positive and vouch it.
        
             | hunter2_ wrote:
             | Yes, I keep that enabled. I guess I provided poor examples
             | but what I'm saying is that it seems like on Reddit
             | moderation activities are quite obvious (i.e., a giant
             | chain of deleted comments tends to indicate moderation and
             | elicit resentment) and here they're less obvious (there's
             | an air of strong moderation but little to point at
             | directly, which is great IMHO as it evades resentment).
        
         | Seattle3503 wrote:
         | dang, or someone at HN, can and does silently modify the
         | "weight" of a submission. That is why some articles stay on the
         | front page longer, and some slip off the front page in a couple
         | of hours.
         | 
         | This is far more control than reddit mods have. Reddit mods
         | have one ability, an that is the ability to remove or not
         | remove a submission, which is a very public action. HN can put
         | its finger on the scales in a way that is much more subtle.
        
           | romafirst3 wrote:
           | Very much so and it all happens with zero transparency,
           | explanation or acknowledgement, very sus.
           | 
           | Your account can also be effectively shadowbanned with
           | everything you submit going straight to the "dead" pile.
           | Again no explanation and the only way you realize it is cause
           | your submissions slowly die with no comments (and when you
           | view the site in a non logged in fashion your submissions are
           | not there)
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | That happens to spammers and serial abusers and, as I
             | understand it, nobody else. People are overwhelmingly told
             | when they're banned.
        
               | realusername wrote:
               | I've seen at least one user recently which has all his
               | comments as [dead] automatically and they are pretty
               | normal comments. I did not write down the name but I've
               | seen that only once.
        
               | censthrowaway23 wrote:
               | If only we had some transparent way to know if it's
               | common or not or if it just happens to bad people we
               | don't like.
               | 
               | Unfortunately we don't and we just have to trust dang and
               | the benevolent hacker news gods to always have our best
               | interests at heart and only spam us with the content that
               | they want to spam us with and of course their friends and
               | insiders content which we should be grateful to be
               | spammed with.
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | We do know to a reasonable degree because otherwise the
               | 'improperly' banned would make a noticeable fuss. It's
               | not a common enough occurrence but maybe you have some in
               | mind.
        
               | Jtsummers wrote:
               | Assuming no violent (as in promoting) or particularly
               | racist/sexist comments in their history, this hits some
               | new accounts if they're using a VPN (some particular
               | VPNs, I guess?). Sometimes they get caught up in the same
               | filters used to block spammers/abusers from using HN. Or
               | if their first (or one of their first) comments was a
               | link without substantial text, that also gets people put
               | into some kind of "spammer" category. You, or they if you
               | tell them, can reach out through the email in the contact
               | link at the bottom to get the ban addressed.
        
               | realusername wrote:
               | I found back the username in my browser history, the name
               | is baybal2, it's a fairly old account so I'm not sure
               | what caused it.
               | 
               | I'm going to contact the moderation indeed, it's the
               | first time I was seeing non-spam comments being shadow
               | banned automatically.
        
               | justsomehnguy wrote:
               | > so I'm not sure what caused it
               | 
               | The behaviour of the account holder.
        
               | nkurz wrote:
               | You've found an odd edge-case. baybal2 is banned
               | intentionally, despite the fact that most of his posts
               | are good, and some are great. Unfortunately, the
               | remainder aren't. The compromise is that he's banned, but
               | users like me vouch for many of his good posts to make
               | them visible. Here's a post from Dan about him a couple
               | years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29692791.
               | And other from 4 years ago:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21195898.
        
               | dang wrote:
               | This could be because they got caught in a spam filter,
               | or because we banned them and the comments they've posted
               | since then are better. In such cases we're always happy
               | to take a look and unban the account if they're using HN
               | as intended.
               | 
               | There are some weird edge cases, like sometimes a banned
               | user, once they're unbanned, will revert to posting
               | abusively. Then we ban them again and they revert to
               | posting good comments again. Who can fathom the psyche of
               | homo internetus.
               | 
               | It's also common for an account to post both fine
               | comments and abusive comments. It's the latter that
               | determine whether we have to ban the account--that's how
               | rule enforcement works. But if a banned account posts
               | something good, there's no reason why the good post needs
               | to remain [dead]. This is what vouching is for:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#cvouch.
        
               | realusername wrote:
               | Thanks, I didn't know about vouching. I guess there's
               | indeed an history behind each ban of a real user. (Not
               | talking about spam of course, it's a different thing)
        
         | throwawaysugar wrote:
         | > Not saying dang never blocks users/comments, but it's
         | exceedingly rare and I've only seen it for the most obnoxiously
         | egregious behavior after (usually multiple) warnings.
         | 
         | Issuing warnings or reminding people of the guidelines (rules)
         | is also part of being a moderator, so the moniker is perfectly
         | cromulent to describe dang's role
        
           | cowpig wrote:
           | I had never heard the word "cromulent" and so that led me to
           | a Mirriam Webster article describing how The Simpsons made
           | the word up for a joke and then from there "seeped into our
           | lexical consciousness". Worth a read!
           | 
           | https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/what-does-
           | cromulent...
        
             | throwawaysugar wrote:
             | It's way too good a word to be left unused! ;-) That whole
             | episode is hilarious tbh
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | My issue isn't so much with the word, but it's that so often
           | I see tons of users who are clearly bringing preconceived
           | notions about how the moderator role works at Reddit and
           | thinking it works the same here. At the very least there
           | definitely aren't moderator _s_ , plural, on HN currently by
           | that definition.
           | 
           | The other reason I think "admin" is a much better word is
           | that it much more clearly indicates that this is a special,
           | privileged role. That _vast_ majority of  "moderation" on HN
           | is done by normal users with upvotes, downvotes and flagging
           | (and also, of course, by automated systems e.g. with spam
           | filters/bot detection).
           | 
           | But again, my primary point is that I see users blaming "the
           | mods" for why their post is downvoted or hidden, when usually
           | it's that people just don't want to acknowledge that the
           | community, at large, didn't think they were contributing
           | productively to the discourse of the site.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | There are, I believe, multiple HN moderators; Dan is just the
         | only vocal one. And among all the different sites on the
         | Internet, there are multiple different moderation styles, of
         | which Dan's is just one.
        
           | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
           | I don't believe that is correct anymore, and I think TFA is
           | right:
           | 
           | > Hacker News currently has one full time moderator: Dan
           | Gackle (dang), and formerly Scott Bell (sctb). Their comment
           | replies provide a pseudo-log of Hacker News moderation.
           | 
           | I've never seen an anyone else besides dang comment that they
           | are an HN admin in the past 5-ish years or so.
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | Dan is the only one who currently posts publicly as a mod,
             | but if you search his comments, you'll see he implies there
             | are others.
        
       | nyjah wrote:
       | The second chance pool blew my mind the first time I got an email
       | to resubmit. You figure if a post gets no traction, that's just
       | how it is. But I'll never forget getting that email.
        
         | susam wrote:
         | +1
         | 
         | My post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37956065 got no
         | traction when I posted it and quickly disappeared from "/new"
         | without many people noticing it. The next day, I received an
         | email that this post was entered into the second chance pool.
         | Then sometime later, it got picked for the front page and led
         | to a good amount of community participation! Thanks to the
         | second chance pool, I received several interesting demo
         | submissions to my hobby project!
        
       | lossolo wrote:
       | Your ability to download or upvote comments and stories can also
       | be shadowbanned, rendering these actions ineffective.
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | Missing "Classic"
       | 
       | It's missing the relatively recent new list called "Classic".
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/classic
       | 
       | Classic: _Frontpage as voted by ancient accounts_
        
         | TheCleric wrote:
         | I see it there: https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-
         | undocumented/blob/m...
        
         | n2d4 wrote:
         | Not relatively recent! The feature is from 2009:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=607271
        
       | isoprophlex wrote:
       | It's missing "highlights" at
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/highlights
       | 
       | ... which, anecdotally, I learned about JUST after getting a
       | comment on there. Imagine my surprise at learning about this (in
       | a manner totally unrelated to the post I wrote that made it to
       | the list), and seeing my own writing as the most recent item on
       | the list.
       | 
       | Truman show vibes for sure.
        
         | CharlesW wrote:
         | Interesting! Is there something similar for stories?
        
           | aragonite wrote:
           | There's "best" (Highest-voted recent links), "classic"
           | (Frontpage as voted by ancient accounts) and "active" (Most
           | active current discussions):
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/lists
        
       | cantSpellSober wrote:
       | H
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | I actually really hate this feature. The landscape has changed
         | and I've been seriously contemplating asking @dang to nuke my
         | account.
        
           | goles wrote:
           | I would greatly encourage you to not nuke (but do contact)
           | despite having had this thought myself.
           | 
           | But I appreciate the fact the consequences for everyone are
           | not the same, and potentially even fatal in current times.
           | 
           | I believe I understand why it's done in the way it's done,
           | but also this can drive self-censorship. Which is a growing
           | problem at large.
           | 
           | Without speaking out of turn, which may just create more
           | work, they can help.
           | 
           | Contact hn@ycombinator.com.
        
         | fabian2k wrote:
         | I do put a lot of value on privacy, but I actually don't really
         | find that problematic. I don't have the expectation to be able
         | to just erase everything I wrote online, I assume it is public
         | and persistent. So for things where I want to preserve private
         | aspects I have to take that into account from the start.
         | 
         | There are certainly individual cases where some post might turn
         | out to be problematic later, but that's more of an exception
         | and can be handled by manual intervention.
         | 
         | I do find it annoying in some places how users can just erase
         | their posts without a reason. Because they don't just erase
         | their own content, they take the responses to it with them or
         | at least make them less understandable. And those people
         | responding did put some effort into it.
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | Seems to be missing comment vote manipulation. Users can see the
       | number of votes their own comments get but can't see the number
       | of votes other comments get, or even if their vote changes the
       | vote count on a comment, which allows shadowbanning of unwanted
       | comments by vote count alteration by mods/admins.
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-undocumented/blob/m...
        
           | photochemsyn wrote:
           | That only covers downvoting comments, it doesn't mention why
           | comment vote counts aren't publicly visible. Keeping comment
           | vote counts invisible makes sense if upvotes on some comments
           | are not being recorded as a form of shadowbanning those
           | comments/users.
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | Other people's vote counts are invisible because they led
             | to constant bickering about the merits of any given
             | comment's "spot" vote count (this is also the reason
             | there's a guideline that asks you not to write these kinds
             | of comments, but changing the affordances so you can't see
             | them at all was a much more effective solution to the
             | problem).
             | 
             | (My confidence in this explanation comes in part from the
             | fact that I'm pretty sure I had a hand in this coming to
             | pass: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2403716).
             | 
             | The conspiracist rationale here doesn't make much sense,
             | because the site operators also control the displayed
             | comment count _and_ the registration of votes.
        
       | fmx wrote:
       | Discussion from 5 years ago:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16437973
       | 
       | Nice to see that some of the suggestions from there, like listing
       | the hidden URLS (/leaders, etc.) seem to have been implemented.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Let's document it shall we:
         | 
         |  _A List of Hacker News 's Undocumented Features and Behaviors_
         | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33076053 - Oct 2022 (68
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _A List of Hacker News 's Undocumented Features and Behaviors_
         | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30459276 - Feb 2022 (64
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _A List of Hacker News 's Undocumented Features and Behaviors
         | (2018-20)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26866482 -
         | April 2021 (255 comments)
         | 
         |  _A List of Hacker News 's Undocumented Features and Behaviors
         | (2018)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23439437 - June
         | 2020 (266 comments)
         | 
         |  _A List of Hacker News 's Undocumented Features and Behaviors_
         | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20292361 - June 2019 (25
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _A List of Hacker News 's Undocumented Features and Behaviors_
         | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19212822 - Feb 2019 (183
         | comments)
         | 
         |  _Hacker News 's Undocumented Features and Behaviors_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16437973 - Feb 2018 (391
         | comments)
        
       | b8 wrote:
       | There's other moderators than daang and some users help out with
       | site stuff sometimes.
        
       | stormed wrote:
       | A lot of these backend features/behaviors are super interesting
       | to read through, especially in regards to the "flame war
       | detector" section. I've only ever seen link aggregator websites
       | such as Reddit relying on community moderation & spam detectors
       | rather than anything to improve the quality of the discourse.
        
       | CharlesW wrote:
       | I'm curious about the full list of automatic headline changes.
       | They seem reasonable, but it's worth knowing that if they change
       | a headline for the worse, you can immediately edit the submission
       | and restore the original headline (or an "in the spirit of" edit
       | that fits within HN's character limit).
        
       | DiabloD3 wrote:
       | My favorite is /leaders.
       | 
       | Shame I'm not in the top 50 anymore, but there just ain't a lot
       | of good content to submit anymore and karma whoring seems like a
       | waste of time.
        
       | drfuchs wrote:
       | I accidentally hit "hide" on an item I want to see. Where's the
       | documentation on how to unhide?
        
         | aragonite wrote:
         | If you see it on this page (not accessible to anyone except
         | you, logged in), you can just click "unhide"
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/hidden?id=drfuchs
        
           | drfuchs wrote:
           | Very cool, thanks. How does one become aware of this class of
           | magic? It seems completely undiscoverable, not being in the
           | FAQ, nor in the present "List of Hacker News's undocumented
           | features..."
        
         | erik_seaberg wrote:
         | Your view of your profile page
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=drfuchs should have a
         | "hidden" link where each story has an "un-hide" link instead of
         | "hide."
        
           | drfuchs wrote:
           | Thanks. For those wondering how someone may have missed this:
           | Evidently I had not in fact accidentally done a "hide", so
           | nothing was in my hidden list, and thus my profile page
           | cleverly didn't have a "hidden" link at all.
        
       | voytec wrote:
       | 1) I enjoy figuring out how HN works over time by noticing
       | certain patterns. Still haven't figured out (please don't spoil)
       | why I can't downvote certain comments in threads where I see both
       | arrows on other comments. HN feels like games in the past -
       | you're given some docs but over time you'd go "ooooh" about
       | something undocumented. Good stuff.
       | 
       | 2) voting system works well for just users but HN is infested
       | with corporate voting manipulation. It seems that an entity
       | monitoring eg. brand's name is able to use just a few 501+ karma
       | accounts to bury, or a few more to strongly boost, any post
       | 
       | 3) based on what I learned about posts' scores (more than a grain
       | of salt - as I mentioned - I'm still figuring things out) it
       | seems a little out of place that sometimes a few hours-old posts
       | (not as old to qualify for the "second chance" thing) with barely
       | any comments and points are positioned higher on the top page
       | than younger posts with more activity (higher score and more
       | comments). I've noticed it more than once with substack and my
       | assumption is that HN may be boosting YC-backed products
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | They do the opposite thing: they're extra hands-off with YC-
         | backed things, and quicker to turn off flags on stories
         | critical of YC-backed things.
         | 
         | I don't see much evidence of voting manipulation (and a lot of
         | evidence of HN being hair-trigger about suppressing vote
         | manipulation).
        
         | shadowgovt wrote:
         | It may not even be official corporate manipulation. HN is
         | frequented by a lot of industry insiders, and if they see
         | something that doesn't resonate with what they know to be true
         | they'll downvote.
        
         | lampiaio wrote:
         | > 2) voting system works well for just users but HN is infested
         | with corporate voting manipulation.
         | 
         | You mean to say that next week's Kagi thread won't be as
         | organic and spontaneous as it purports to be? Impossible.
        
         | local_crmdgeon wrote:
         | I don't think Dang is advancing YC interests - I think it's
         | just bog-standard astroturfing. Especially with the low vote
         | count of most stories, it's not hard to make your story pop or
         | disappear.
        
       | goplayoutside wrote:
       | Are there any browser extensions that provide a user tag feature,
       | similar to Reddit Enhancement Suite?
       | 
       | There are so many notable tech people on HN, it would be useful
       | to be able to recognize their posts and comments.
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | https://github.com/veggiedefender/hn-friends
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | When did Hacker News start applying _topcolor_ to the YC logo? I
       | just noticed it today but am curious if it's been there for
       | awhile.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | I did it a couple days ago because a user had been emailing
         | since 2016 that the orange Y doesn't look good when the bar is
         | changed to Christmas red.
         | 
         | Btw, that's not the record for how long a bug fix has taken. We
         | get there eventually.
        
           | JorgeGT wrote:
           | This update broke my workflow!
        
             | dang wrote:
             | I did warn him that people might complain about side
             | effects
        
             | cantSpellSober wrote:
             | I use [bgcolor='#ff6600'] as a CSS selector for the <td>
             | wrapping the header to remove the header bar color.
             | 
             | So this really _did_ break my workflow, hah
        
           | rob wrote:
           | Don't make me start emailing you every day to update the
           | default font size from 12px to a modern default like 16px.
           | This isn't 2007 when everybody had 1024x768 monitors. I had
           | to dust my monocle out of storage before adjusting my browser
           | zoom level.
        
       | ilamont wrote:
       | Thank you for compiling this list. I have been using the site
       | since 2007 and had never looked into the classic page (assumed it
       | was an old stylesheet or something similar). Also had no idea
       | about some of those special URLs such as noobcomments.
       | 
       |  _If a user has 31 Karma, they can also vouch for a [dead]
       | submission /comment. A vouched submission/comment has its rank
       | restored (and potentially improved as the vouch can counteract
       | the effects of flags)._
       | 
       | Is this consistent? I recently vouched for something on the New
       | page and it wasn't restored.
       | 
       | One other thing I would like to ask: I currently bookmark about
       | 20 users whose comments I find especially insightful across a
       | wide range of subject matter expertise. Is there another
       | way/better way to do this?
        
         | gnicholas wrote:
         | > _I currently bookmark about 20 users whose comments I find
         | especially insightful across a wide range of subject matter
         | expertise. Is there another way /better way to do this?_
         | 
         | I don't know if it still works, but I used this a few years ago
         | for this exact reason: https://github.com/veggiedefender/hn-
         | friends
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | fine, I'll update the list today
        
         | ssgodderidge wrote:
         | Thanks for putting this together. I've been on HN for a while
         | (even before getting an account) and learned a ton with this
         | list
        
         | ZephyrBlu wrote:
         | Guilt Driven Development
        
           | mayormcmatt wrote:
           | Ha, truly! I read his comment, refreshed the GitHub repo and
           | saw the "changes made < 1 minute ago" flag.
        
             | minimaxir wrote:
             | I needed an excuse to be productive. :)
        
         | tech234a wrote:
         | I figured this list was on the front page again when I was
         | notified that my PR [1] was finally merged :)
         | 
         | [1]: https://github.com/minimaxir/hacker-news-
         | undocumented/pull/6...
        
       | StevenNunez wrote:
       | Guess I need to figure out how to get more Karma! I didn't know
       | there were more features to this site since I'm essentially a
       | lurker.
        
       | MatthiasPortzel wrote:
       | One undocumented heuristic that I wish was documented better is
       | that repeated submissions to the same domain, especially without
       | discussion activity, leads to an automated shadow ban. This is
       | just from what I've observed browsing /new with Show Dead turned
       | on. There are lots of people submitting their own blog posts or
       | repeated posts from their favorite news outlets who have been
       | shadow banned. Vouching provides a mechanism for restoring posts
       | of particular quality, but most of these people aren't trying to
       | spam, they just don't know this unspoken rule.
        
       | cloudking wrote:
       | Idea: 1000 karma should get custom CSS as a setting.
        
         | isoprophlex wrote:
         | and a dark mode button ;)
        
       | charcircuit wrote:
       | HN also has rate limits on making comments for certain users. The
       | limit is easy to hit and takes hours to go away. This results in
       | having to ignore people's questions because it will waste a
       | comment contributing to one's rate limit. One can also respond to
       | people by editing one's comment, but that has poor ux.
        
         | joecool1029 wrote:
         | Had it in the past on my acct. It always showed up when I
         | posted on topics about trees and commented faster than normal.
         | Wasn't aware it was a thing until emailing HN and dang
         | mentioned it.
         | 
         | I'd maybe suggest updating the message to include some
         | approximate time the limit expires. 'Come back in a few hours'
         | or something. I say this because it was unusual enough for me
         | to hit that I'd rewrite my comments thinking it was some kind
         | of word flag I'd tripped, then try to repost it in 5-10 minutes
         | only to have it fail again.
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | This is an annoying feature which I have encountered. I know it
         | is to calm heated discussions, but the ambiguity of the message
         | is belittling. I'm not overwhelming the database; just tell me
         | how long I have if you're going to put me in timeout for a few
         | hours.
         | 
         | It isn't a frequent issue, but putting duct tape on someone's
         | mouth when they're talking about something they care about does
         | not calm them down, even if it achieves the primary goal.
        
         | xienze wrote:
         | You're talking about the "you're posting too fast, please slow
         | down" message? IME it's not a rate limit but a passive-
         | aggressive way of banning someone from a conversation for some
         | amount of time.
        
       | submeta wrote:
       | Would like to mention Dang here, he is doing an extraordinary job
       | in keeping this place sane and civilised.
       | 
       | I really am wondering how he can read and react to so many
       | comments quickly.
       | 
       | Dang, care to elaborate? Do you see a flat list of new comments,
       | review them quickly? Do you use a moderation tool that scans the
       | mood / tone / aggresiveness of a post? How do you do the
       | screening and the replies? Manually?
        
         | core_dumped wrote:
         | Dang is just a 10x moderator
        
       | Y-bar wrote:
       | > Inclusivity [...] Unfortunately. (Moderators occasionally
       | unkill such threads if they see it in time, although it rarely
       | sticks).
       | 
       | Why would this be described as "unfortunate"? For example tings
       | like LLM:s being trained on flawed/biased data is a known real
       | and unfortunate thing which can hurt already marginalised groups
       | in society if used for eg. policy derisions.
        
         | sokoloff wrote:
         | The "unfortunately" refers to the preceding text rather than
         | the following.
         | 
         | > However, despite these discussions not being off-topic, they
         | tend to be flagged to death by users regardless. Unfortunately.
        
           | Y-bar wrote:
           | That's my point, I think. It seems to me that moderators are
           | doing the right thing by HN rules and context by tagging such
           | discussions are not off-topic. Why is it described as
           | "unfortunate" then?
        
             | djur wrote:
             | I think you're reading it as "Unfortunately, moderators
             | occasionally unkill such threads..." when it's meant as
             | "...they tend to be flagged to death by users regardless,
             | unfortunately".
        
               | Y-bar wrote:
               | I think so too perhaps and hopefully, but there is no
               | comma As in your example. Just a period suggesting the
               | previous sentence has ended.
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | True. But the following phrase is set off by both a
               | period and a set of parentheses. I think it's pretty
               | clear the author's intent is for there to be a complete
               | sentence about the behavior of HN users and then a
               | complete thought saying that was unfortunate. (Then a
               | parenthetical about the moderator behavior.)
        
         | bmicraft wrote:
         | If you quoted the whole thing it would be more apparent:
         | 
         | > [...] they tend to be flagged to death by users regardless.
         | Unfortunately.
         | 
         | What the author finds unfortunate is the flagging by users, not
         | the moderator action.
        
           | Y-bar wrote:
           | I hope i can agree with you. But are you really sure? The
           | period seems to indicate that the "unfortunate" belongs to
           | the moderator action and not the flagging.
        
             | bmicraft wrote:
             | In my mind unfortunately can only ever refer to a previous
             | sentence, not the next one. I read the period simply as a
             | stylistic choice meant as a pause. They could have written
             | it with a dash or a comma:
             | 
             | > [...] they tend to be flagged to death by users
             | regardless -- unfortunately.
        
               | Y-bar wrote:
               | To me it is always preceding, like here:
               | 
               | > 1. Placement: "Unfortunately" is typically placed at
               | the beginning of a sentence or clause to emphasize the
               | regrettable aspect of the situation. It sets the tone for
               | what follows and ensures clarity in your expression.
               | 
               | https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/how-to-use-
               | unfortunatel...
               | 
               | > Unfortunately, my time is limited.
               | 
               | https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/unfo
               | rtu...
        
             | djur wrote:
             | "[unfortunate statement]. Unfortunately." is idiomatic (if
             | informal) English. "Unfortunately. [unfortunate
             | statement]." is not, especially in this case where the
             | second statement is parenthesized. If it was
             | "Unfortunately:" or "Unfortunately," that would be
             | different.
        
       | orenlindsey wrote:
       | This list is pretty nice, I learned a lot from it.
        
       | cinntaile wrote:
       | Another undocumented feature is that flagging posts/submissions
       | very likely is weighted differently for different users.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-26 23:01 UTC)