[HN Gopher] Matter, set to fix smart home standards in 2023, stu...
___________________________________________________________________
Matter, set to fix smart home standards in 2023, stumbled in the
real market
Author : LinuxBender
Score : 75 points
Date : 2023-12-25 16:15 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| rubatuga wrote:
| TLDR: Matter with Philips Hue is unreliable. Matter doesn't
| support adaptive lighting on HomeKit (yet).
|
| My two cents: thread and matter has the potential to be more
| reliable than WiFi. The biggest blocker is that thread border
| routers have no vendor interoperability (you have to buy a bridge
| for every vendor)
| tjoff wrote:
| > _The biggest blocker is that thread border routers have no
| vendor interoperability (you have to buy a bridge for every
| vendor)_
|
| Why? They all work ~fine on zigbee which is pretty much the
| exact same thing just with even less oversight.
|
| I haven't bought into matter/thread because I haven't found a
| single device I want yet.
| ianburrell wrote:
| Zigbee and Thread are not the same thing. They use the same
| 802.15.4 radio. Zigbee does its own wireless mesh protocol,
| and then adds profiles on top. With home automation being
| most common. Thread uses 6LoWPAN to run IPv6 on 802.15.4.
| Thread adds a mesh network. Matter is the home automation
| protocol on top of that.
| tjoff wrote:
| From an systems perspective they are the same thing. Zigbee
| vs. Thread is just transport. The protocol on top of that
| is what matters and the sole purpose (from my narrow
| perspective) of Thread+Matter was that this would be a team
| effort to allow different vendors to talk to eachother.
|
| And with that in mind IPv6 feels like a decent choice.
|
| If vendors don't respect that foundation then the whole
| point of Matter+Thread is just gone.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Even on Zigbee, there are slight incompatibilities between
| vendors.
| rubatuga wrote:
| You can't add zigbee lights from IKEA to a philips hue bridge
| and have them show up in homekit. [0]
|
| [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/Hue/comments/cpbu9w/ikea_tradfr
| i_bu...
| upon_drumhead wrote:
| I literary couldn't get any eve matter devices to work at all
| on my network. Turns out matter requires some ipv6 features my
| router doesn't support and isn't easily found out what routers
| do support it.
|
| I'm a firm believer in matter and threads future, but ipv6s
| home network mess is going to hamper it for years imho.
| alphabettsy wrote:
| IPv6 Unicast and Multicast. Seems like any consumer router
| made in the last decade should work as long as IPv6 is
| enabled. Consumer routers vary widely in software quality
| though.
| upon_drumhead wrote:
| No, it also needs to support:
|
| ICMPv6 (type 133) Router Solicitation (RS)
|
| ICMPv6 (type 134) Routing Advertisement (RA)
|
| Which my xfinity provided router does not. I spent weeks
| with support emails between xfinity and eve trying to get
| it sorted out before eve declared it an unsupported router
| and refunded me the purchase.
| rubatuga wrote:
| RA and RS packets form the basis of IPv6, so objectively
| the router from Xfinity does not support IPv6.
| alphabettsy wrote:
| Fair enough. I haven't used an ISP provided router in a
| decade. I can't justify paying more for what's usually
| pretty crap.
| aksss wrote:
| Right but isn't this kind of illustrating the problem
| with the state of home automation in general? I mean, if
| you care enough to know about the features of your
| router, your also likely the kind of person who can pay
| attention to and work out all the kinks in home
| automation, and it's fun and really cool when you get it
| working.
|
| But for 90% of the population home automation is as
| elusive and as prohibitive as quality home espresso -
| expensive, delicate, and requires all the attention of a
| niche hobby. Not that most people aren't smart enough to
| figure it out, but for most people the juice isn't with
| the squeeze. All the COTS hardware for easy
| implementation is a closed cul-de-sac and rather
| mediocre, and is condemned to be a neat gimmick that
| quickly loses its luster.
| alphabettsy wrote:
| It's certainly an issue with home automation, but I'd
| argue with home networking as well. Eero and Nest routers
| are popular for a reason, they hide the complexity and
| "just work".
| dharmab wrote:
| In my personal experience, Phillips Hue is unreliable in
| general. I just replaced every Hue bulb in my home because one
| in four had either turned inti a flickering haunted house prop
| or failed entirely.
| alphabettsy wrote:
| In my experience they have been the most rock solid piece of
| all the smarthome tech for a decade for me in multiple homes
| and apartments. I still have and use the original bulbs that
| came in my first starter kit.
| dharmab wrote:
| Some of the failed bulbs were purchased after 2020. I
| suspect quality has declined.
| shepherdjerred wrote:
| I have something like 50 lights from them and only one has
| ever given me trouble
| Volundr wrote:
| I'm still unclear on why the need for a border router exists at
| all. My zigbee devices work just fine without access to my
| local network or the Internet, but the same devices using
| matter/thread claim to need a border router? What are they
| doing differently than my zigbee stuff?
| alphabettsy wrote:
| The protocol and network are open, but it's encrypted and as
| far as I can tell none of the major vendors allow you to
| export or import the keys you would need to add a bridge from
| a competing platform.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Sounds like an FTC complaint around interoperability and
| anticompetitive behavior.
| tjoff wrote:
| Isn't that what the Matter QR codes are for? Which I
| thought were mandatory for all Matter products?
|
| I guess a loophole might be to make the border router
| matter compatible but none of the actual devices. At which
| point you really shouldn't be buying them anyway.
| alphabettsy wrote:
| No. Thread and Matter are not the same thing.
|
| Matter is an interoperability standard so that devices
| expose a common API. It works over WiFi, Bluetooth or
| Thread currently.
|
| Thread is a network protocol like WiFi or Bluetooth.
|
| The QR codes are used for pairing devices to a Matter
| controller.
| ianburrell wrote:
| For Zigbee, you need a hub for apps to work because the
| Zigbee protocol is its own thing. If you are lucky, it is
| Home Assistant and can use that on local network. If you
| aren't using HA, then it is custom hub that talks over the
| Internet to just that app.
|
| Big advantage of Matter/Thread is that don't need a hub with
| its software. It is IP-based protocol. On Wifi or Bluetooth,
| your phone talks directly to the devices. On Thread, you need
| a gateway to translate from Wifi to Thread. Your phone only
| needs to know about Matter.
|
| I don't think Matter devices talk over the Internet, I think
| they use non-routable IPv6 addresses. You can use HA to
| control over Internet but that uses the HA app. I don't know
| what other apps do, probably the same custom thing as with
| Zigbee.
|
| Matter works similarly to HomeKit, with direct access to
| devices, but Matter adds the low-power Thread. It is also
| standardized so that could have generic Matter app instead of
| every device being its own app. And can add support to HA
| instead of custom Wifi and Bluetooth devices.
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| You only need a hub _if_ you want to control your devices
| from your LAN. You don't need one if you only use Zigbee
| steering devices.
| Volundr wrote:
| That makes a lot more sense if it's supposed to talk
| directly to my phone. Would I still need a router if I
| already have HomeAssistant with a thread usb module? I
| don't really care about bypassing HA, I'm fine with keeping
| the hub.
| ianburrell wrote:
| If using Thread from HA server, then it would work the
| similar to Zigbee (and they use the same radio). I think
| HA can do Matter over Wifi and Bluetooth.
|
| Some Google Home devices can be Thread hub, and Google
| Home can do Matter directly. iOS 16 has Matter support
| but not sure what that means. That may be the advantage
| that don't need to download app for each device but will
| be builtin to OS.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| The problem is the investors. They love recurring revenue. Hence
| data mining apps and closed ecosystems with subscription fees.
| And bait and switch tactics like Hue where the conditions
| deteriorate over time (like needing an account now so they can
| track you better)
|
| Companies don't really want to give us freedom of choice. They
| just want to take our money. Ideally through subscriptions so
| they have to do almost nothing for it but can cash in easily.
|
| So all the "special sauce" doesn't have a technical reason but am
| economical one.
| ahaucnx wrote:
| It's true that the trend in the industry definitely goes
| towards subscriptions and closed eco systems.
|
| We at AirGradient see that very well that more and more
| companies force their users into the cloud and some monitors
| even refuse to show current air quality when not registered to
| the cloud. Imagine you would need to register your fever
| thermometer with an app in the cloud before you could measure
| your temperature...
|
| Part of the problem is not only the investors in Matter but
| also VC funded smart home equipment manufacturers that are
| pressured to go down the recurring revenue business model.
|
| At AirGradient [1] we want to demonstrate a counter example.
| Our fully certified air quality monitors are open source
| hardware and thus we provide the firmware code and they can be
| easily re-flashed with whatever software you like to use. With
| this openness a great community has emerged that maintains
| integrations to various systems like Home Assistant via
| ESPHome.
|
| [1] https://www.airgradient.com/
| russell_h wrote:
| I've got one of your pre-soldered kits running ESPHome in my
| office. It's a great product, thanks for making it!
| snapplebobapple wrote:
| #metoo. I love it. I wish it did carbon monoxide among
| other things i havemt thought of yet.
| dns_snek wrote:
| Thanks for trying a more customer-friendly approach!
|
| I don't have an immediate need for one of these, but do you
| have any plans to expand to Europe or work with a local
| distributor? Inflated shipping cost & time, VAT & customs
| duties (+additional processing time) and a cumbersome return
| process if anything goes wrong, makes for a less than ideal
| shopping experience.
| Cockbrand wrote:
| +1, I just bought an Aranet4, and I'd return it in a
| heartbeat if I could buy an Airgradient (or three) in
| Europe without the added cost & hassle.
| ahaucnx wrote:
| This is definitely on our radar.
|
| At the moment we still have a lot of dynamics in the
| product, eg frequent firmware updates on the shipped units
| and this is why we currently prefer to ship directly.
|
| Once things are more settled down we will look for
| fulfillment centers in Europe and the US.
| shafyy wrote:
| Hey, I run a small fulfillment company in Germany and
| would love to help shipping your products. In fact, I
| just wanted to order your indoor kit yesterday but, as
| others have said, it's not that straight-forward ordering
| from the US. Drop me a note at can@getravioli.de and
| let's see if we can make it work, including the
| complexity with the firmware updates and so on.
| gausswho wrote:
| Can you elaborate on the Home Assistant integration? Do you
| just need to plug in the devices and ESPHome detects them or
| is there more to it?
| ahaucnx wrote:
| At the moment you need to flash ESPHome onto it (can be
| done easily via the browser) and then there is a well
| maintained ESPHome configuration script available.
|
| https://github.com/MallocArray/airgradient_esphome
| heyoni wrote:
| I literally just purchased your fully assembled kit a few
| days ago specifically because all the parts are open source
| and easy to hack. Right now I'm running Amazon air quality
| monitors with a homebridge plugin I had to patch myself
| because Amazon changed their API which broke everything.
| naasking wrote:
| Aww I wish I had known about AirGradient a few weeks ago. I
| ended up buying an an Air Things wave plus where I can at
| least export data to csv.
| Larrikin wrote:
| This is exactly the kind of product worth supporting. It's
| Christmas Day, so won't be buying today, but I've added this
| to the list of items for my Home Assistant.
|
| There isn't an HN promo code is there?
| wkat4242 wrote:
| I think I'd seen your product before on HN. It looks nice but
| like the others say, I'm in Europe so it's a no go for now.
| Will keep an eye on it though for when you decide to expand!
| kolinko wrote:
| Isn't hue on zigbee, so you can use any other app to control
| the equipment?
| metadat wrote:
| In the past few months, after doing a ton of research I ended up
| going with Z-Wave for a new home build. Z-Wave isn't not going
| away anytime soon.
|
| Zigbee is also pretty cool, between these and an odd Wi-Fi only
| device here and there, it seems more than adequate.
| colordrops wrote:
| I came to the same conclusion and it has been fine.
| travem wrote:
| I am using z-wave as well. It has been rock solid, and using
| the z-wave association capability I don't even need the hub
| (using Hubitat) unless I want to do more complex automations.
| The only downside is the ecosystem has fewer options (but have
| been high quality IMO) and the cost is higher than the
| ubiquitous WiFi smart home devices that require their own apps
| and internet connection.
| acheron wrote:
| Yep I have Z-Wave stuff with a Hubitat box. Works pretty well.
| I do wish I could locate a Z-Wave water timer for
| sprinkler/irrigation.
| rlpb wrote:
| I am also invested into Z-Wave with about 50 devices. It works
| well, doesn't require an Internet connection, degrades
| gracefully if the hub is unavailable (or indeed any RF) and
| Z-Wave JS UI is good enough for self-hosting and bridging to
| MQTT for full integration with anything else I want.
|
| The protocol is also excellent for battery powered devices in
| terms of super low power consumption: depending on the device's
| needs, the protocol allows for the device radio to be
| completely off for hours at a time. For example, I have a
| couple of key fob controllers that we use daily but we haven't
| replaced the batteries in them for years.
|
| My only fear is that "consumerist" IoT platforms that change
| every few years will usurp it and new Z-Wave devices will
| become unavailable.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| I did zwave lighting for my home office a few years ago.
|
| I hit a problem where it was really difficult to debug setup /
| configuration problems.
|
| I suspect this was due to zwave devices being as cheap as
| possible: my devices had just 1-2 buttons and 1-2 blinky lights
| for configuration.
|
| I would have gladly spent $30 more per device to get better
| device diagnostics.
| dns_snek wrote:
| Out of curiosity, why did you decide to go with Z-Wave over
| Zigbee?
| deadmutex wrote:
| Not OP, but I hear that Zigbee implementations vary by
| vendor, and are usually not compatible across vendors.
| Larrikin wrote:
| I did the research about a year ago and this wasn't an
| issue that came up.
|
| It really just seems to come down to your local market.
| Zigbee seemed to have more compatible devices in the US vs
| zwave so I went with zigbee. I only have about fifteen
| devices, mixed between a few manufacturers, but it's been
| rock solid after I switched from my initial conbee to a
| sonoff dongle.
| metadat wrote:
| Z-Wave devices are mostly certified to not interfere with
| each other, whereas Zigbee is a fingers crossed free for all.
|
| All wired Z-Wave devices also act as repeaters to extend the
| network, which is handy.
| vGPU wrote:
| I have a few zooz Z-wave devices and a bunch of zigbee stuff.
|
| The Z-wave devices turned out to be significantly more
| unreliable surprisingly.
|
| The only z-wave device I still have running is my smart lock.
| Everything else has been replaced with zigbee.
| LanzVonL wrote:
| I just don't trust smart home stuff, it all seems like a big data
| collection nightmare at best, at worst you could have criminals
| and government nannies both spying on you 24/7. I still use
| incandescent lights though too.
| postpawl wrote:
| There are some smart home hubs that support self hosting. Home
| Assistant and Hubitat are both really good solutions.
| LanzVonL wrote:
| Are those Free and Open Source? If there's a security problem
| can I fix it myself and flash new software?
| piperswe wrote:
| Home Assistant is FOSS software that just runs on a Linux
| box, its functionality/integrations all come from FOSS
| plugins that you can write and/or modify yourself.
| dns_snek wrote:
| HomeAssistant is FOSS and it has an incredible number of
| integrations, it's extremely capable though not as user-
| friendly as commercial offerings when it comes to setting
| it up, which is to be expected.
|
| In similar vein ESPHome and Tasmota are 2 independent FOSS
| projects that can replace proprietary firmware on many
| commercial smart devices based on ESP32.
|
| Some WiFi-based smart devices like those made by Shelly
| work without internet access and integrate with HA via
| local HTTP API.
|
| Fully local smart home is possible, but you'll need to
| research what you're buying - as a general rule, you should
| avoid WiFi-based smart devices unless they offer a local
| API. Everything else (ZigBee, Z-Wave) _should_ work offline
| without proprietary hubs, though I 'm sure there are
| exceptions.
| Crosseye_Jack wrote:
| And the LibreTiny version of ESPHome supports the common
| WiFi microcontrollers that have been "replacing" the ESP
| range, that have been popping up in devices made by Tuya
| and the like such as
|
| BK72xx: BK7231T, BK7231N RTL87xx: RTL8710BN, RTL8710BX
|
| https://esphome.io/components/libretiny.html
|
| But yeah, using both Tasmota and ESPHome I've moved all
| (bar one) of my "WiFi Only" devices to being fully local
| devices.
|
| (The exception being my thermostat for my heating, that
| uses a tuya-mcu and a LCD driver IC so I don't really
| want to reflash that and faff with the tuya-mcu this side
| of winter, and I'm planning to replace it with a
| OpenTherm controller next year anyway. In the meantime
| I'm using a local tuya integration in HA to just send it
| commands directly)
| bestouff wrote:
| Yes and yes.
| bjackman wrote:
| I recently set up Home Assistant and a bunch of ESPHome-based
| sensor devices. It was pretty easy (for someone who's
| technical enough to write YAML, use SSH, and do some basic
| soldering) and now I have a "smart home" which is totally
| bullshit-free and cost like $80 all-in. It was a fun like
| weekend project I can recommend it!
| Shish2k wrote:
| That's one of the things Matter is supposed to help with - part
| of the spec is that all devices need to have a local-only / no-
| cloud / no proprietary app option
| dopidopHN wrote:
| Also: what is the point?
|
| Convenience ? One minute of me debugging a http request to fix
| my light is evaluated dearly.
|
| If that happen once it will offset years of voice light off/on
| and other lazy ass of poor design workaround.
| eternityforest wrote:
| Totally agree here, if tech isn't ultra reliable, maintenance
| free, and feature rich, why am I bothering?
|
| Not just with HA, but tech in general really. I love the idea
| of FOSS, but it's important that stuff just works, every
| time, without hackery.
| anymouse123456 wrote:
| Matter. Not fit for human consumption.
|
| I understand how compelling the marketing hype seems at first,
| but a quick investigation reveals this to be yet another mafia
| shakedown and effort to lock down and prevent any meaningful
| competition.
|
| They have a 16-bit Vendor ID. That's 65,535 vendors supported.
| Globally. Ever. One must pay the CSA ([0] $2,500 per PRODUCT or
| $7,000 per YEAR) for one of these artificially scarce
| identifiers.
|
| In order to download specs, you're expected to accept TOS,
| authenticate and then you're emailed a (presumably authenticated)
| link to the PDF [1].
|
| You need to wait for the consortium to define every single
| application layer detail for each and every type of thing [2].
|
| Of course, the decision makers are unable to make high quality
| decisions since their own businesses depend on trapping customers
| in their respective walled gardens. The goal is to prevent any
| small or medium sized businesses from competing with the small
| handful of multinational megacorps.
|
| From what I can tell, it's all of the worst parts of USB, without
| HID and Serial to fall back on for things they didn't think to
| define.
|
| [0] https://csa-iot.org/become-member/#Membership
|
| [1] https://csa-iot.org/developer-resource/specifications-
| downlo...
|
| [2] You must download the "Device Library" spec yourself, as my
| link is fingerprinted and I do not wish to violate a hidden TOS
| clause.
|
| [edit] formatting
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| It has a cool name and cute logo though. I'm sure it's easy to
| silk screen onto a device.
| HankB99 wrote:
| > They have a 16-bit Vendor ID. That's 65,535 vendors
| supported. Globally. Ever. One must pay the CSA ([0] $2,500 per
| PRODUCT or $7,000 per YEAR) for one of these artificially
| scarce identifiers.
|
| I didn't know any of this. I pay attention to IoT (and run a
| modest Home Assistant setup in my home.) Had I known about
| these constraints, I would have written off Matter from the
| beginning.
|
| What were they thinking?
| anymouse123456 wrote:
| Coming from software and making the move to hardware has been
| incredibly eye-opening.
|
| As soon as you need to instantiate something with atoms, the
| cycle-times and overall difficulty increases exponentially.
| Just when you think you've got something, all these
| despicable gatekeepers shove their hands in your pockets.
|
| There are lots of reasons we can't have small batch, niche
| electronic products, and these license fees combined with
| even worse regulatory costs require enormous sales volumes to
| amortize.
|
| It's really concerning to see the same rent-seeking values
| making such strong headway in the software space over the
| past 5-10 years too.
| dns_snek wrote:
| I've read a lot about smart home protocols and I didn't realize
| Matter failed at its #1 selling point, being open-source.
|
| This is why I love HN, thanks for pointing it out.
| cesarb wrote:
| > They have a 16-bit Vendor ID. That's 65,535 vendors
| supported. Globally. Ever.
|
| Isn't that the same as USB or PCI? Both also have a 16-bit
| vendor ID.
| anymouse123456 wrote:
| Yep.
|
| The USB-IF also artificially limits the vendor address space,
| which gives them the ability to charge exorbitant fees before
| anyone can deploy a device without conflicts.
|
| I haven't tried to build and deploy a PCI device yet, but
| given your point, I assume the same game is being played.
|
| At least with these 2 technologies, they can lean on being
| around for some decades. Bits were quite a lot more expensive
| 20+ years ago.
| seanalltogether wrote:
| Bluetooth as well.
| aksss wrote:
| I think that the vendor ID limitation is less of a hurdle,
| realistically, than it's made out to be, especially in the
| short term. Simple cert costs and loss of captured markets/lack
| of demand are the bigger impediments. But I don't think the
| obituary needs to be written on matter yet.
| eternityforest wrote:
| I was so excited about Matter at first, but now it seems like
| nobody really cares.
|
| WiFi has gotten way more reliable, and devices with open local
| APIs are more common now. Bluetooth is even starting to be used
| occasionally. YoLink's LoRa based hardware is still better than
| anything else even slightly affordable, even though it's still
| totally a closed cloud based platform.
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| I honestly feel like smart homes are getting worse each year for
| me. Now even Hue is an unreliable and unnecessarily frustrating
| experience. The only actual improvement in my setup has been that
| the IKEA Dirigera hub is now a solid improvement but some Hue
| stuff doesn't work with it.
|
| On the other hand some manufacturers are now actively fighting
| home assistant and the matter switch is non existent. A total
| zero number of devices in my home run over matter, something that
| I didn't expect given the huge amount of excitement early on.
|
| It feels like rather than everything slowly converging I now run
| two hubs still, custom smart home apps, a largely unreliable and
| useless home assistant next to some things with HomeKit.
|
| I really can't stand it and I'm incredibly frustrated by it.
| ratiolat wrote:
| Dirigera still does not support Matter. I bought it for 'coming
| soon' Matter support, but it's still not there. Have been
| waiting for looong time now.
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| That's why I originally replaced the hub. But it's a much
| better hub on its own so I'm not too mad. I can't find matter
| devices independently that I want to use and are actually
| working properly.
| tacticalturtle wrote:
| Do you have any examples of manufacturers that are fighting
| Home Assistant?
|
| I just started using it and getting into home automation, and
| that's disappointing to hear
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| The famous example at the moment is the family of MyQ garage
| doors (Chamberlain, Lift Master etc.). Integrations that
| break after an upgrade and don't get fixed for longer than I
| can deal with are more common.
| adestefan wrote:
| I just installed a ratgdo on my Lift Master door and it's
| great.
| aksss wrote:
| Personally, I shop for automation features based solely on
| their capacity to integrate with Home Assistant.
| simbolit wrote:
| The sub-headline says everything you need to know: "Gadget
| makers, unsurprisingly, are hesitant to compete purely on device
| quality."
| okeuro49 wrote:
| And you would have misunderstood...
|
| > If Matter can succeed in convincing companies to compete on
| the merits of their devices--not the incidental revenue that
| comes from being a single-system device provider, or phone app
| marketing...
| simbolit wrote:
| ...then in a few years, people won't even notice that they're
| simply scanning a code on their devices and adding them to
| whatever home control system they wish.
|
| The sentence you (partially) quote starts with "if" and ends
| with "wish". Cough.
| blindriver wrote:
| After trying to go in hard with IoT, I now just rely on Apple
| Home Kit to unify everything for me. It's good enough except for
| the terrible interface to set lights on and off, it's literally
| the worst I've ever seen.
| csnweb wrote:
| Same here, I also don't understand why the home app is rather
| lacking. The light switches in the control center are okay, but
| that quickly becomes too full. I mostly use voice commands to
| manage my lights and third party apps like the one from Eve for
| other accessories.
| euroderf wrote:
| Does anyone know a good ELI5-type page for deCONZ and Phoscon ?
| Their documentation is kind of a mess.
| odiroot wrote:
| Maybe because Zigbee is good enough. And Matter/Thread try to do
| too much.
| napkin wrote:
| I'm reserving my interest in smart home tech for when it's a
| clear win in terms of energy efficiency. Very recently I compared
| my current home lighting costs with a fully smart-equipped setup,
| and it basically just balanced out. I was surprised, because I
| calculated a best case scenario where the lights could basically
| always be off when not in use, compared to my current patterns
| where honestly I'm pretty lazy and leave all them on almost all
| day. The industry/general consumer priorities are pretty
| frustrating.
| FloatArtifact wrote:
| From those that are privacy conscious matter also has an issue
| that seems largely underreported.
|
| You can't choose which device on the network is the controller
| when setting up a new device to a network.
|
| For instance if you have a home assistant blue it might choose
| your Amazon echo to initiate the network. Therefore you have
| multiple networks running which may not respect your privacy or
| choice.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2023-12-25 23:00 UTC)