[HN Gopher] We aren't posting on social media as much
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       We aren't posting on social media as much
        
       Author : muser8
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2023-12-24 19:14 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
        
       | muser8 wrote:
       | I often remark to family and friends that the human race wasn't
       | ready for the capacity for instant communication with 'everyone
       | everywhere all at once' but perhaps that was overly pessimistic
       | and we are developing that muscle. Or is the novelty just wearing
       | off and there are movements to other platforms that aren't
       | represented in the article?
        
         | paulmd wrote:
         | we still are exceptionally bad at managing large in-groups (or
         | ostensible in-groups).
         | 
         | discord is a perfect example, you can fairly easily maintain
         | relationships with 10 groups of 50 people, but 500 people is a
         | chore
        
           | whstl wrote:
           | Yep. This is why I think super large Reddit communities, and
           | also the federation part of Mastodon, are all a mistake that
           | failed IMO. Sure, those tools need those things to grow, but
           | the end result is as bad as social networking.
           | 
           | "Less is more" has never been apt. I don't want to be able to
           | connect to a billion people :/
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | https://youtube.com/watch?v=k1BneeJTDcU
        
         | jug wrote:
         | There is a Kurzgesagt that I can recommend about this! How our
         | puny brains are ready for socializing and it's been very
         | important for us, but more on an isolated "tribe" level or at
         | the very least without social networks, arguing that returning
         | to special interest bulletin boards online will probably have
         | us feel better.
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/fuFlMtZmvY0
        
       | yetanotherloss wrote:
       | Other than IG envy posts a lot of my younger friends seem to be
       | switching to private or mostly private group chats. A lot of them
       | use Discords even for non-gaming stuff probably due to the
       | illusion of a smaller and more authentic community. Tiktok and YT
       | may be replacing others but those seem much more heavily leaning
       | to watching versus posting as the skill and production of what it
       | takes to look good on it is more effort.
       | 
       | If I had to guess they're getting annoyed at the rapid
       | enshittification push at some of the big platforms. We may see
       | federated mastodon model become more popular once a few
       | celebrities figure it out.
        
         | mackman wrote:
         | A lot of the enshittification is a result of the drop in
         | organic content from friends and needing to maintain engagement
         | numbers. It's a vicious cycle, possibly a death spiral.
        
           | jinushaun wrote:
           | I don't think enshittification entirely explains it.
           | 
           | At least for me, social is exhausting because rage bait
           | drives engagement and I'm tired of being angry all the time.
           | It's 1984 and the Two Minutes Hate. Instagram was a lot more
           | fun when it was just food and travel. Even without
           | algorithmic feeds, the introduction of revenue sharing and
           | sponsorships means that creators would eventually make the
           | same hateful content to increase clicks and revenue.
           | 
           | Unless of course, you consider revenue sharing
           | enshittification.
        
             | ben_w wrote:
             | For me IG is still dogs and landscapes, so I'm wondering if
             | perhaps its recommendation algorithm has an inner death
             | spiral where it randomly showed you something that made you
             | angry, then interpreted your reaction as "jinushaun engages
             | more with this than that" and stopped showing you good
             | stuff forever after?
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | Even disregarding privacy concerns (which you shouldn't!), I
       | stopped posting on social media largely because I'm too
       | argumentative of a person for it.
       | 
       | When arguing is limited to people I see in person, it's a
       | somewhat time-boxed and constrained operation. I typically can
       | only argue with one person for N minutes, and eventually both of
       | us get tired of it and we move on with our lives, but there's
       | _always_ someone wrong on the internet, and a lot of those wrong
       | people love to be wrong publicly on social media. I would always
       | end up arguing with a stupid post that a stupid person on
       | Facebook had, and then someone would chime in in support of me or
       | the person I 'd argue with. Before I knew it, a not-insignificant
       | percentage of each day was being dedicated to responding to
       | idiocy on social media.
       | 
       | Eventually, it started getting annoying and I deleted my
       | Facebook, and never really looked back. I run a Mastodon instance
       | that I almost never use (but I had to justify the server I bought
       | somehow), I briefly worked at Reddit, and obviously I post a bit
       | on HN which is basically social-media adjacent, but despite all
       | this I never really felt compelled to go back to constantly
       | posting on social media.
       | 
       | I suspect a lot of people have come to similar conclusions. I
       | enjoy talking to my friends, and I do pretty liberally on Signal,
       | but I feel that's sort of in a different category than "social
       | media".
        
         | whstl wrote:
         | Funny. I was actually able to control myself in
         | Facebook/Twitter (I had veeeery few discussions there, even
         | peaceful ones were rare), but the problem was the increasing
         | amount of arguing I was _seeing_ , especially thanks to the
         | algorithmic timeline.
         | 
         | It was making me feel like shit even when I wasn't
         | participating. Even when I stopped liking stuff it was visible
         | that it was fucking with my mental health. Walking away from
         | reading two people arguing completely drains my energy.
         | 
         | Reddit is not that different. I don't have an account and just
         | go there to get updated on my favourite hobby, but even that
         | will show me a lot of people arguing and things getting heated,
         | and it makes me a bit anxious after reading.
         | 
         | Mastodon is going in the same direction IMO. It is a bit of an
         | echo chamber the people I follow (I don't mind this tbh), but
         | 60% of the things that get going are fucking powderkegs where a
         | single disagreement becomes too heated. I've seen people piling
         | on others because of opinions I agree, and vicariously reading
         | makes me feel like shit.
         | 
         | I'm perfectly fine with conflict and with discussions, but it
         | doesn't really work for me when lots of topics are treated as
         | if it was as high-stakes as we do online.
        
           | javajosh wrote:
           | _> increasing amount of arguing I was _seeing* [on twitter]
           | 
           | I recently created a new account, adding only programming and
           | professional connections, and it's actually quite good! If
           | you don't click on any of the "trending" stuff, it functions
           | like a microblog should: it's a way for me to keep up with
           | the projects and OSS personalities I want to, without the
           | fuss.
           | 
           | I did something similar with YouTube: I simply turned off
           | "watch history". The youtube home page is literally empty,
           | because without data the algorithm offers nothing. (In
           | fairness, there's a big contingency message saying in bold
           | letters "Turn watch history back on? Pretty please?") The
           | only time I see content on youtube is because someone I
           | subscribed to posted something. It's glorious. No more doom
           | scrolling because the content is _finite_ once again. I find
           | that the creators I like (and the comments) have enough
           | references to other content that I don 't feel cut off. And
           | there's always search. It's just that default empty screen
           | that seems like the magic sauce.
           | 
           | This is my "middle path", and it seems likely that if it
           | catches on they'll do something to disrupt it. In which case
           | I will truly leave. It would be such a waste though, and why
           | we can't have nice things.
        
             | bratwurst3000 wrote:
             | Thank you! I didn't know that feature of YouTube. I love
             | YouTube and you made it a better place. Because now I block
             | the front page but then I miss the posts of channels I
             | subscribed.
        
             | whstl wrote:
             | That new feature of Youtube is indeed fantastic.
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | There is great wisdom in Mark Twain's advice to never argue
         | with an idiot.
        
         | letuv wrote:
         | It can help to practice compassion for strangers and
         | equanimity.
         | 
         | They might be wrong but they are just acting in the way they
         | believe is best, and even if they have some impact it's
         | ultimately just a tiny effect in a vast universe.
        
         | kelnos wrote:
         | I don't think I'm quite as argumentative as you've described
         | yourself, but I've fallen into some of the same traps in the
         | past.
         | 
         | I stopped using Facebook 5 or so years ago, and almost
         | instantly felt better day-to-day. I hadn't realized how upset
         | Facebook was making me. Sometimes it would just make me sad (as
         | in, "it's so disappointing that people believe garbage like
         | XYZ") and other times actively angry. Sure, I did occasionally
         | change people's minds by arguing with them in Facebook
         | comments, but that was pretty rare; usually people would just
         | dig in and everyone involved in the argument would end up angry
         | and frustrated.
         | 
         | And it wasn't just that: even when I felt no desire to wade
         | into some sort of contentious conversation, just _seeing_ those
         | sorts of arguments stressed me out and made me upset. Even as I
         | started pulling away from participating in discussions and
         | arguments on Facebook, I realized the root of the problem was
         | still there: divisive crap promoted by algorithmic engagement
         | metrics. Even dialing back my participation wasn 't really
         | helping.
         | 
         | So I just stopped, and I feel so much better for it. On
         | occasion (maybe once every 4-6 months) I'll sign into my
         | Facebook account for some specific purpose (to find someone's
         | birthday or email address or something like that), and I'll (as
         | detached as possible) scroll down the news feed a bit for a
         | minute or two. It's so liberating: I realize that I actually
         | don't care about 95% of what my friends and acquaintances are
         | posting. For the most part, I learn about my friends' lives by
         | actually interacting with them (either in real life, or 1-on-1
         | or small-group chats). There are some friends who I have lost
         | touch with, and that does make me a little sad, but the
         | negatives of using Facebook again just aren't worth it for me.
         | 
         | I pretty much limit my arguing with people on the internet to
         | HN, and while I probably do spend more time doing that than is
         | healthy, I think I'm doing a lot better than when I was
         | actively on Facebook.
        
           | tombert wrote:
           | I agree with pretty much everything you said; I don't argue
           | too much on HN but I do occasionally.
           | 
           | My life improved substantially after I dropped Facebook, but
           | the frustrating part now is that LinkedIn (more or less a
           | necessity to find a job in 2023) has started to attract the
           | same morons posting their conspiracy theories, and now I feel
           | like somewhat of a hostage audience. At that point I'm in
           | this kind of uncomfortable position of "do I let these
           | potentially harmful posts go completely unchecked, or do I
           | risk future employers knowing my political beliefs?"
           | 
           | Mostly I've opted for the former, but as you said, the issue
           | is that I am still _exposed_ to these arguments. The second
           | that I find a job that I am confident I won 't be laid off
           | from, I'm never logging into LinkedIn again.
        
       | nektro wrote:
       | good, hopefully they'll shut down and we'll get back to having
       | communities
        
         | chris-orgmenta wrote:
         | Hmm, sounds like you want to destroy my nice-happy-niche social
         | media communities there - Please don't throw my baby out with
         | the bathwater when you do :)
         | 
         | (This was intentionally flippant , to point out the lack of
         | nuance in parent)
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | People are realizing (again) that their opinions are like some
       | ... body parts
        
         | PopAlongKid wrote:
         | The point being, everyone has one.
        
           | bratwurst3000 wrote:
           | It's so smart to not have an opinion.
        
       | TheCapeGreek wrote:
       | I agree largely with all of the posts here, but the nagging
       | concern in the back of my mind is always: isn't social media
       | still valuable for businesses? Or rather, are you leaving
       | customers "on the table" by ignoring it?
       | 
       | Maybe less so for B2B or "serious" things like WSJ, but for B2C
       | it still sounds like a serious contender. For your dropshipping
       | doohickies or crafted niche fandom doodads, where else do you go?
       | Etsy and Pinterest aren't the norm everywhere. Then there's
       | always the hope of "building a following" around either yourself
       | or your product, or perhaps hitting a viral moment ("use this app
       | to help you ABC 2x faster" by some influencer). Does one just SEO
       | their way around and hope someone with a following gives you a
       | boost or asks for an affiliate program?
        
         | riffraff wrote:
         | I have not read the article but it is my understanding that
         | reach in classic social medias s (Fb, Instagram, Twitter) has
         | become incredibly bad.
         | 
         | E.g. a post on Instagram would previously reach 40% of your
         | followers and is now closer to 5%. So the value for a business
         | also went down dramatically.
         | 
         | You might as well just invest in advertisement rather than a
         | social presence beyond the minimum.
        
           | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
           | A big problem is that the social media platforms are
           | incentivized to try and keep people on the platform, aka away
           | from external sites where you can sell your services. So your
           | links to where to sell your stuff or whatever is not promoted
        
             | infecto wrote:
             | Is a possible other problem that everyone created social
             | media with incredibly diluted messaging. Every brand had to
             | post multiple times a day for things that seemed pretty
             | worthless.
        
       | pokoblond wrote:
       | The great logging off and the cozy web.
        
       | blinding-streak wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/6l9Ei
        
       | bufio wrote:
       | Doing away with chronological, non-curated feeds (by default) has
       | disincentivised posting. Social interaction is no longer a
       | concern for the few big social media companies. To a large
       | extent, it has been optimised out.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-24 23:01 UTC)