[HN Gopher] Synthesis Methods Explained: What Is FM Synthesis?
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Synthesis Methods Explained: What Is FM Synthesis?
Author : peter_d_sherman
Score : 46 points
Date : 2023-12-24 18:23 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.perfectcircuit.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.perfectcircuit.com)
| CrypticShift wrote:
| FM synth programming can feel like a dark art for starters. It's
| much less straightforward to dial in a specific sound compared
| to, say, subtractive synths.
|
| Now imagine a synth that reverse-engineers audio sounds you feed
| it, adjusting its parameters to match. This would be a game-
| changer for learning. This recently released FM synth is trying
| to do just that with AI :
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gTYlYG6-R8
| unleaded wrote:
| That's been around for at least 30 years[1] although there is a
| strange lack of tools using it, I looked into it a while ago.
| There's a tool for generating OPN2 patches[2] (sound chip used
| in Sega Mega Drive) which is what I'm most interested in this
| technology for but I couldn't get it running right. And a
| modern method that uses neural networks instead of genetic
| algorithms but I haven't found any applications of it [3].
|
| [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/3680541
|
| [2] https://github.com/jpcima/fmprog
|
| [3] http://kth.diva-
| portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1334639/FULLTEXT0...
|
| p.s. does anyone know why do so many papers on new technologies
| like this never even provide code samples? what's the point?
| SeanLuke wrote:
| Using genetic algorithms or other evolutionary computation
| methods for this purpose is pretty old. There are two versions.
| First, there is _evolutionary resynthesis_ , where the system
| is trying to optimize a synth program to match an existing
| sound. This can be done automatically: try a bunch of sounds,
| have some automatic comparator compare them to the target
| sound, assess them, mix-and-match, try again. Then there is
| _interactive evolution_ , where the system is trying to come up
| with sounds interesting to the musician. Here the system
| proposes and auditions synth patches, and the musician responds
| with what he thinks are the better ones, and using that
| information the system mixes and matches and tries again.
|
| Evolutionary resynthesis has been around since at least 1996
| (Horner). Aphex Twin was enamored with it for a while. I don't
| think it's particularly interesting: if you already have a
| target sound, why are you trying to come up with a program to
| match it? Why not use the sound itself? But interactive
| evolution is both useful, more difficult, and interesting, as
| it makes it possible for the musician to explore the space of
| synth programs without having to program them (and that's
| particularly good for FM, since FM is EXTREMELY
| counterintuitive to program).
|
| I wrote what I think is the best _general-purpose_ interactive
| evolution style synth programming system right now: Edisyn. It
| works with a wide range of synthesizers and synthesis types. If
| you restrict yourself to exactly one synthesizer of your own
| design, you can get better results still, and there are a
| number of softsynths out there which do this.
|
| But most interestingly: interactive evolution has a specific
| inventor: BRIAN ENO! He invented it around 1995 in a letter he
| wrote to Stewart Brand.
| tomjakubowski wrote:
| > if you already have a target sound, why are you trying to
| come up with a program to match it?
|
| Once you have the program matching the sound, you can tweak
| it and get variations. At least that's what I imagine people
| would want it for.
| derriz wrote:
| Fiddling around with FM, I've found it easy to dial in
| interesting sounds but very difficult to find sounds that are
| "musical" so it's difficult to actually incorporate them into a
| piece of music. I guess the wild success of the built-in
| patches of something like the DX7 proves that this is down to
| my own lack of skill but FM synthesis seems somewhat chaotic -
| a small adjustment to one parameter can cause a wild swing in
| the sound.
| atoav wrote:
| As a synth head that teaches synthesizers at university: While
| I think that is an interesting idea in itself, it is probably
| not the best idea for _learning_ how FM synthesis works.
| Learning synths is both about gaining an intution what sounds
| emerge when you change a set of parameters, as well as having a
| mental model of the signal flow and how that shapes the sounds.
|
| Both are things that are not helped by having something that
| creates presets for you -- in fact it might even be more
| productive to look at human made presets if you need guidence.
|
| Also: Synthesizers are also good for creating never before
| heard, totally out there sounds, and those are hard to reach
| when you feed it existing stuff. My own personal learning
| approach always was to use a simple init preset and then create
| everything manually from there. I called this my "No-presets
| rule" (meaning I don't use presets that I did not make myswlf
| for anything, unless ot is a commercial gig). If you then make
| your 10th preset from scratch you probably understood
| _something_ already. And then at some point looking at other
| people 's stuff starts to make sense because now you have a set
| of eyeballs that can actually peeceive the things they did.
| ducharmdev wrote:
| Re: your experience teaching synths in university, do you
| feel there is certain knowledge/concepts that are difficult
| for those self-teaching sound design?
|
| I do the same "no presets rule", with most being the result
| of random experimentation and fiddling of parameters. This
| does a good job at "creating never before heard, totally out
| there sounds", but I imagine it's trickier the more specific
| your end goal is.
| u_s_e_r wrote:
| Another approach, rather than generating randomized offspring,
| differentiable dsp provides a mechanism to self-correct using a
| loss function
|
| https://deepai.org/publication/ddx7-differentiable-fm-synthe...
| yowlingcat wrote:
| [delayed]
| fassssst wrote:
| Modulate one oscillator with another
| Subdivide8452 wrote:
| The end.
| sctb wrote:
| The original paper is quite short and readable:
| https://people.ece.cornell.edu/land/courses/ece4760/Math/GCC...
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