[HN Gopher] BBS: The Documentary (2005)
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       BBS: The Documentary (2005)
        
       Author : pelagicAustral
       Score  : 173 points
       Date   : 2023-12-23 17:45 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbsdocumentary.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbsdocumentary.com)
        
       | guiambros wrote:
       | Love the documentary; fond memories from those days of 2400bps.
       | It has been posted here many times before; this is the one with
       | most comments [1], 9 years ago.
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9521867
        
         | pelagicAustral wrote:
         | I think it's a comfy Christmas must watch...
        
         | leptons wrote:
         | I got a 2400bps modem to hook up to my C64 and was a bit
         | unhappy that I would get all kinds of errors when receiving
         | data from BBSs, and I figured out that the C64's native serial
         | port code was too slow, it was dropping bits. I was using CCGMS
         | terminal program at the time so I figured out how to hack CCGMS
         | and wrote my own bit-banged serial I/O code in assembly
         | language and that fixed the problem up nicely.
        
       | nshkr wrote:
       | I used to hang both online and IRL with one of the folks in the
       | documentary. Seems like yesterday. Still have nostaligic memories
       | of being enamored by his stack of USR 16.8k HST modems and the T1
       | (iirc) he managed to get to his residence.. (again, iirc), his
       | house was like under 1000 feet (loop length) to the CO (central
       | office) where the 4ESS (telephone switch) was located. (could be
       | inaccurate recollections..)
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | As I recall, I never knew any of the people in the documentary,
         | but definitely used to hang out with various people in the
         | community who were members of a large Cambridge MA BBS.
        
       | rwmj wrote:
       | https://archive.org/details/BBS.The.Documentary in case you're
       | looking for a version which isn't 27GB.
        
         | tjohns wrote:
         | There's also a torrent there, in case you feel guilty about
         | their hosting bill for direct-downloading 27GB.
        
       | themew wrote:
       | The day I was able to upgrade my 'shoebox' 110 baud modem to a
       | 300 baud modem was the day I thought "I'll never need this kind
       | of speed, but it's nice to have."
       | 
       | Thanks for posting about this documentary. I ran a BBS from
       | 1983-1986 on a Commodore 64, a 1200 baud modem and 5 1541 floppy
       | drives. An amazing time for this technology.
        
         | leptons wrote:
         | Which BBS? I was on a lot of C64 BBSs.
         | 
         | I actually built my own 300 baud modem for my C64 from
         | electronic components I got at Radio Shack. I was kind of a
         | nerdy kid.
        
           | gmiller123456 wrote:
           | Cool. Did you ever do a write up on how to do it, or know of
           | one. I'm just curiuos, I assumed it was pretty involved.
        
             | leptons wrote:
             | A 300 baud modem was pretty simple actually, it was just a
             | tone generator/decoder with digital controls. I think I
             | used a simple PLL chip to decode the tones and probably 555
             | timers to generate tones. Anything faster than 300 baud was
             | far more complex. I built it as a final project for an
             | electronics class I was taking in like 1989 or something.
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | Modems used to cost about a dollar per baud.
        
           | Bayaz wrote:
           | Rich folks with their 56k.
        
             | DonHopkins wrote:
             | And 501k!
        
       | ghaff wrote:
       | BBS's are mostly a pre-web thing (and were largely divorced from
       | the internet--for which you basically had to work for a small
       | number of companies or universities to get on) so this
       | documentary from @textfiles is a valuable piece of pre-web
       | computer history. BBS's were a pretty important part of my early
       | computer experience once PC's came out.
        
         | loceng wrote:
         | BBS's were the first point of access for the internet for many
         | - the more professional or BBS-as-a-service charging fees, one
         | local one for example had something like 20 concurrent users
         | possible (20 phone lines in) - were some of the first to get T1
         | lines following universities, etc.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | Yeah, my commercial BBS was my first ISP for a time until I
           | got broadband.
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | Are there places where BBS is still in active use?
        
         | pelagicAustral wrote:
         | Well, there is about a thousand on
         | https://www.telnetbbsguide.com/
        
         | fintler wrote:
         | If you're near the Bay Area, CA, there's a few N0ARY BBSes
         | accessible via packet radio. For example, there's one on Mt.
         | Umunhum in the Santa Cruz mountain range.
        
           | nullc wrote:
           | The Umunhum packet bbs has great range. I can work it from
           | northern Marin maybe 90 miles away. But sadly, whenever I've
           | logged in it seems kinda dead except for national network
           | traffic. Maybe there is local stuff I missed in the flood of
           | non-local stuff.
        
         | myth_drannon wrote:
         | You can telnet to many BBSs. If you want something a bit
         | similar to the original modem experience, you can buy device
         | that emulates modem but actually uses WiFi and connects to
         | telnet instead of a phone number.
        
           | spiderxxxx wrote:
           | I just built one of those today, the Wirsa v2 (its on github)
           | and it's great for getting older devices "online". You can
           | telnet, or playback text files, or download files from sd
           | card all via a DB9 serial - you can use a DB9-DB25 converter
           | if you want. I got it so I can get my TRS-80 Model 100
           | online, and maybe even an Epson HX-20, but I still need to
           | build a cable for it.
        
         | nullc wrote:
         | A few years back I realized I had a non-used landline due to
         | DSL and I thought it would be fun to try to log into every BBS
         | remaining in the country. I picked up a nice external courier
         | modem from weird stuff for a couple dollars and started
         | dialing.
         | 
         | I was thwarted by two factors, one is that the vast majority of
         | the numbers I could find were now answered by humans who I felt
         | bad for bothering. The other was the apparently even a lot of
         | landlines (including my own) have VoIP steps in their transport
         | that modem traffic doesn't work well across.
        
           | tjohns wrote:
           | Now I'm wondering:
           | 
           | 1) Can you get a digital line to support 56k BBS hosting
           | anymore?
           | 
           | 2) Can you even get an analog copper line from AT&T for
           | outbound calling? (I know the FCC recently said carriers
           | aren't required to offer it anymore.)
           | 
           | 3) Absent either of the above, what's the best speed you can
           | reliably do over VoIP, assuming G.711 / no compression?
        
             | nullc wrote:
             | So I found the modem unreliable even with it constrained to
             | lower speeds. I don't recall what I used, but I'd WAG it
             | was V.32 (9600 bps) as that's the lowest speed that still
             | has forward error correction (and also happens to be fast
             | enough to be reasonable to use).
             | 
             | Maybe I also tried 1200? Not sure, as mentioned I also had
             | the issue of accidentally harassing people.
             | 
             | I think in general the issue is that there is a jitter
             | buffer and async clocking that causes timing slips that
             | upset the modem. A sufficiently advanced(tm) demodulator
             | could presumably handle it, but I can't control the remote
             | side... There is a lot of text out there on getting _fax_
             | to work right, but there are options for fax that don 't
             | apply to the general case of modems.
             | 
             | Very very few BBSes were _ever_ 56k. V.90 eliminates the
             | extra low resolution A->D stage from the provider to the
             | user by having the provider connect digitally (via ISDN PRI
             | or T1). So in the downstream direction the only A->D stage
             | is in the users modem and can be higher resolution, so all
             | codewords are reachable.
             | 
             | 33.6k BBSes and 28.8k (including in the async HST form)
             | were certainly a thing.
             | 
             | By the time technology for 56k was available (1998?) we
             | were well into the internet access age, and the monthly
             | cost for a PRI or T1 was well out of budget for all except
             | the largest BBSes (many of which were transitioning or had
             | transitioned to be ISPs by that point in any case).
        
         | johnlinvc wrote:
         | ssh://bbs@ptt.cc is the largest one in Taiwan with ~60k
         | concurrent user at this moment. You'll need to switch to BIG5
         | encoding to display properly.
         | 
         | There's also a web version https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/index.html ,
         | which supports Unicode.
        
       | jlundberg wrote:
       | I am really happy to have experienced bbses during my youth.
       | Being too young (born 1983) for their golden age, I was lucky to
       | have an older brother who allowed me to get a glimpse into this
       | world.
       | 
       | Check out https://16colo.rs/ for good art from the time. And from
       | groups who keep releasing such art to this date.
        
         | loceng wrote:
         | I was born in '83 as well but seemed to catch the tail end of
         | it - definitely part of my formative years, with experiences
         | like stumbling upon my first "sex chat bot" at age 11 or 12.
         | 
         | BBS's were also my introduction to MUDs [multi-user
         | domain/dungeon games] as well, though it was only once we got
         | dialup internet at home did I find a copy of CircleMUD to then
         | implement ideas I had for my own MUD I called Fallen Shadows -
         | and where a small community of voluntary contributors to create
         | rooms and mobs formed over a fairly short period; someone even
         | made an awesome ASCII art login page spelling out Fallen
         | Shadows in gothic-like style.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | (2005)
       | 
       | Also available in the IA:
       | https://archive.org/details/BBS.The.Documentary
        
         | ChrisArchitect wrote:
         | Some more recent related threads with nice anecdotes and
         | connections:
         | 
         | 2022: _Really Enjoyed Jason Scott's BBS Documentary_
         | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31740247)
         | 
         | 2021: _Ask HN: What was it like to use BBS?_
         | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29140217)
         | 
         | 2016: _Social Media's Dial-Up Ancestor: The Bulletin Board
         | System_ https://spectrum.ieee.org/social-medias-dialup-
         | ancestor-the-...
         | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12784307)
        
       | joquarky wrote:
       | As a teen, I used to enjoy playing around with the limits of what
       | I could do with Amiga C-Net's MCI commands as well as the
       | standard terminal ANSI escape codes.
       | 
       | I used to enjoy posting comments with those sequences embedded to
       | make the reader think they had left the forums and were now
       | elsewhere on the BBS. They eventually gave me co-sysop access so
       | I could write games, which is when I really started programming
       | for others.
       | 
       | Now I do mostly UX design and implementation. I miss the
       | simplicity of 80x24.
        
       | tibbydudeza wrote:
       | Fidonet - 2400K baud modems - it was awesome for this sheltered
       | loner.
        
       | Bayaz wrote:
       | It's surprising how much of this era has just disappeared. I
       | recently searched around to see if I could find a few of the door
       | games from my youth (Legends and Virtual SysOp) and there really
       | isn't much out there. Some games like Tradewars live on, but
       | software for TBBS/TDBS is basically forgotten.
        
         | slowhadoken wrote:
         | I believe Usurper and Legend of the Red Dragon are still
         | running somewhere. They're basically just old DOS games running
         | on someone's computer you dialed into.
        
           | sdenike wrote:
           | I remember years ago someone made a PHP version of Legend of
           | the Red Dragon, I think it was Legend of the Green Dragon if
           | not mistaken. I wish I still had my original registration
           | code that was mailed to me and signed by Seth Robinson.
        
             | bsagdiyev wrote:
             | Is this it? https://github.com/stephenKise/Legend-of-the-
             | Green-Dragon
        
             | slowhadoken wrote:
             | I had Usurper back in the day. It's one of those items I
             | lost during a move.
        
             | squigz wrote:
             | I remember playing an Eragon version of this game when I
             | was a kid. I couldn't figure out what the software was for
             | years, and finally figured it out a couple years ago.
             | Unfortunately I couldn't find any information on the
             | specific instance I played, but it was nice to get an
             | answer :) Good memories there
        
         | bilegeek wrote:
         | If you haven't come across this already: the most comprehensive
         | archive I could find is http://archives.thebbs.org/
         | 
         | It's dial-up slow when downloading files, but maybe you'll find
         | what you're looking for.
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | There's a service to play vga planets over the Internet as
         | well. Googling will find it.
        
         | CWuestefeld wrote:
         | To relive a little nostalgia, check out "The Last Call BBS"
         | game [1]. This is a collection of games framed as BBS online
         | games, and very well done.
         | 
         | [1] https://zachtronics.com/last-call-bbs/
        
         | hollywood_court wrote:
         | I spent hundreds of hours playing Tradewars as a kid.
        
         | orionblastar wrote:
         | Tradewars is still sold here: https://www.classictw.com/
         | 
         | TWGS is Tradewars Game Server that uses Telnet to run on a
         | Windows PC over the Internet:
         | https://www.eisonline.com/downloads/
         | 
         | It runs on WINE but it won't do the Big Bang, you have to Big
         | Bang the universe from a Windows PC and then export it to be
         | imported into WINE.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | The videos are at https://archive.org/details/bbs_documentary
       | (via the first link below).
       | 
       | Related. Others?
       | 
       |  _The Full BBS Documentary Interviews Are Going Online_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16221915 - Jan 2018 (1
       | comment)
       | 
       |  _BBS the Documentary (2013) [video]_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9521867 - May 2015 (23
       | comments)
        
       | brianstorms wrote:
       | I still have the DVDs in shrink-wrap. Have never watched. The
       | documentary has a glaring omission, not covering COCONET from
       | Coconut Computing.
        
         | epcoa wrote:
         | I was gonna say take it up with Jason. Looks like that has been
         | done http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/3415
        
           | brianstorms wrote:
           | It's a shame when a documentary series like this is made by
           | someone with . . . issues.
        
           | tbyehl wrote:
           | They are _that_ Brian. I went to work for a BBS software
           | company straight out of high school and can 't recall ever
           | hearing of COCONET outside of this beef with Jason.
        
             | brewtide wrote:
             | I have no idea if it's chance, but my middle school "first
             | class" BBS system was named... Yup. Coconet. Strange memory
             | recall.
        
       | quilombodigital wrote:
       | Yep. Good old days... I also had a bbs with a friend in Brazil,
       | we would make very expensive international calls twice a month to
       | other bbs to download the news. Ah... and of course there was a
       | group called applemaniacos that would send apple II disks every
       | month by mail, with a very funny zine.
        
       | shon wrote:
       | Just a reminder that you can relive the good ole days and run
       | your own BBS with doors FidoNET and all sorts of legit oldskool
       | features all in a modern system running in Node
       | 
       | EnigmaBBS:
       | 
       | https://nuskooler.github.io/enigma-bbs/
        
       | nullc wrote:
       | I am so glad my teenage hijinx did not survive the transition to
       | internet and I feel deeply sorry for children today. Sooo much
       | cringe.
       | 
       | The inherent locality of BBSes was pretty nice however, sure
       | there were some long distance users but most people on most
       | boards were local. I recently rediscovered this photo where 16
       | year old me recreated the on-login BBS quote wall by asking BBS
       | friends that came over to sign my wall:
       | https://nt4tn.net/photos/wall.jpg
       | 
       | It's been a few years since I've talked to anyone I knew from the
       | BBSes (moving to the other side of the country no doubt
       | contributed, some of them have died, etc) but they hung on longer
       | than anyone else I knew as a teenager.
        
       | getwiththeprog wrote:
       | These are really great documentaries, I have watched them twice.
       | 
       | Highly recommended for anyone under 40 years old to see where
       | things came from.
        
       | nickdothutton wrote:
       | My USR HST 14.4 model was a gateway to another world, and as it
       | turned out, a career. The SysOp discount encouraged me to start
       | my own BBS. Somehow I don't think this marketing ploy is given
       | enough significance. It was partly responsible for the explosion
       | in BBS numbers.
        
       | jonasmerlin wrote:
       | Hah, learned about the existence of this documentary just 3 days
       | ago while researching how .zips work[0]. The last episode is
       | supposedly about Phil Katz, co-inventor of the format and kind of
       | a tragic figure.
       | 
       | Fun fact: Due to their structure, the first two bytes of many
       | .zips are 0x50 4B, or PK-his initials-in ASCII.
       | 
       | [0] https://indieweb.social/@jonasmerlin/111617397581024775
        
       | christianvozar wrote:
       | Not only are BBSes alive and well today so are many ansi artists
       | who make the block art to power them. Be sure to give the ansi
       | archive a look (https://16colo.rs). Create an account and give
       | some rating love to artists who still keep this medium alive.
        
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