[HN Gopher] How I obtained a business manager visa in Japan
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       How I obtained a business manager visa in Japan
        
       Author : pwim
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2023-12-22 11:20 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.tokyodev.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.tokyodev.com)
        
       | benknight87 wrote:
       | As another Asia-based software dev (Vietnam), this was an
       | interesting read. I am currently going the spousal visa route but
       | this carries its own advantages and disadvantages. I've always
       | loved Japan but generally unsure of living there due to high cost
       | of living, aging population, and strict immigration laws. As
       | least in the case of the latter, it's good to know a path exists!
        
         | jasonjei wrote:
         | Actually Japan is significantly lower cost to live than to live
         | in SF. The average salary of a college grad that's 30 years old
         | is roughly $30K. Their prices are roughly the same because
         | wages are the same, and they can't afford to increase prices
         | without causing huge systemic problems. As long as you're not
         | eating kaiseki or expensive sushi, Japan is absurdly cheap from
         | USD standpoint, especially with recent exchange rates. 1
         | bedroom apartment might only cost you $600/month in more remote
         | parts of Tokyo. A very filling yakitori meal might only be 1000
         | yen ($7-8) per person.
        
           | aetherson wrote:
           | However, the cost of living in Japan is certainly higher than
           | the cost of living in Vietnam, where your parent poster is
           | apparently residing.
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | The exchange rate (if you're buying Yen) is pretty good at
           | the moment too.
        
           | askonomm wrote:
           | I mean, 99% of the world is lower cost than SF, with SF being
           | in many of the top 10 lists of most expensive cities to live
           | in.
        
             | fnord77 wrote:
             | not for much longer
        
               | askonomm wrote:
               | Because SF is coming down in cost or rest of the world is
               | going up? Or Both?
        
           | yellow_lead wrote:
           | How about healthcare? I've heard this is still quite
           | expensive especially for non-residents.
        
             | peterlada wrote:
             | Laugh cries inconsolably in American...
        
             | bcherny wrote:
             | I've never had to pay more than a fixed copay. (I use
             | public insurance)
        
           | bcherny wrote:
           | I moved from SF to Japan, can confirm. YMMV -- like any other
           | country, cost of living depends on what city and neighborhood
           | you're in, lifestyle, etc.
        
       | brudgers wrote:
       | _helped me put together a three-page document that I was sure
       | wouldn't be sufficient for the Japanese immigration authorities._
       | 
       | This struck me as a case of bureaucracies operating the same way
       | everywhere (though I could be wrong).
       | 
       | The magic key to documents submitted to governments: don't say
       | anything that requires denial.
       | 
       | So less is often more and it is critical to use the right words
       | and not their apparent synonyms even when the synonyms mean
       | pretty much the same thing.
       | 
       | I.e. if you plan to paint your shed green, don't mention that in
       | your building department application. It doesn't help and can
       | only hurt.
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | Yeah, this part smells like the government agency needing a
         | document with the correct contents so someone working there can
         | tick several boxes saying "Requirement fulfilled". The post
         | ends with him wondering why he got the visa, I suppose he just
         | met all the requiments...
        
         | Ao7bei3s wrote:
         | Can't speak for Japan, but in the US, the immigrant does have
         | the burden of proof that all requirements are satisfied and not
         | submitting enough evidence can lead to a request for evidence
         | (RFE) or notice of intent to deny (NOID). And so the law firm
         | we used had the opposite strategy: submit as much evidence as
         | possible and really help the adjudicator check all the boxes.
         | Our petitions tended to be 250-500 page documents.
        
           | apwell23 wrote:
           | Yea exactly my thoughts. Onus is on the US immigrant to prove
           | that they are committing immigration fraud.
        
             | anigbrowl wrote:
             | I think you're mean 'not committing...'? The US immigration
             | system is almost uniquely hostile, by design.
        
       | freetime2 wrote:
       | Thanks for the great writeup! It's good to know that this option
       | exists for remote software developers who wish to live in Japan.
       | 
       | > My visa has been renewed four times now, with the most recent
       | renewal being for three years (the first three were one-year
       | renewals).
       | 
       | Having to renew every year sounds pretty inconvenient. How bad
       | was the renewal process for the Business Manager visa, in terms
       | of time and cost? Also, is it possible to apply for permanent
       | residence after a certain number of years?
        
         | nosrepa wrote:
         | The closing sentence answers your last question.
        
         | lmm wrote:
         | The actual visa renewal fee is only JPY4000 (for full-time
         | employees, spending one of your limited days off going down to
         | the immigration office stings a lot more than the monetary
         | cost). If you want to pay an advisor to prepare the documents
         | that will cost more, but you probably don't need to do that if
         | it's a straight renewal where nothing's changed.
         | 
         | > Also, is it possible to apply for permanent residence after a
         | certain number of years?
         | 
         | 10 years generally; there's also a fast-track points system.
         | (You can also naturalize after 5 years, but you have to
         | renounce any other citizenships for that).
        
       | electriclove wrote:
       | How is he marrying Japanese nationals so quickly?
        
         | freetime2 wrote:
         | Of course I can't comment on his specific circumstances. But
         | two things stand out for me:
         | 
         | First, he is a software developer working for international
         | companies, which probably makes him a pretty high earner
         | relative to most people in Japan. Earning a high income
         | improves mens' eligibility for marriage pretty much anywhere in
         | the world.
         | 
         | Second, Japan places a high value on marriage - both culturally
         | and legally. It's less common to see people date/live together
         | for many years before getting married than in say the US or
         | Europe.
        
         | NegativeLatency wrote:
         | Sounds like it was more than 3 years after divorce. Which is
         | not a long time but I wouldn't exactly call it short.
        
         | csa wrote:
         | > How is he marrying Japanese nationals so quickly?
         | 
         | Interestingly phrased question, but I will bite:
         | 
         | 1. We don't know how long the courting period was for any of
         | his marriages (he mentions two).
         | 
         | 2. For women who are disposed to getting married, my direct and
         | indirect experience is that they often make the go / no-go
         | decision fairly quickly -- think weeks (or even days) rather
         | than months or years.
         | 
         | 3. As another poster said, he probably has relatively high
         | income and decent social status in Japan.
         | 
         | 4. The marriage market is not very good in Japan right now. The
         | changes that led to the lost decade in the 90s is starting on
         | its 4th decade (imho). Significant aspects of the social
         | contract that bound Japanese society together from post-ww2 to
         | the late 80s was largely destroyed, with young people (many of
         | whom are not so young now) left to pick up the pieces.
         | Marriage, much less kids, seems daunting when one's income is
         | not stable, and this economic instability is not uncommon.
         | 
         | 5. A less popular observation is that there is no shortage of
         | Japanese women, especially in Tokyo, who want to marry foreign
         | men. There are a variety of potential reasons for this
         | disposition, with self-serving interests being a non-zero
         | percentage of these reasons across the population. Common self-
         | serving reasons I have seen or heard are things like escape
         | Japanese society, escape family, get a US green card, milk a
         | sugar daddy, etc. On a rare occasion there are very (what I
         | call) cosmopolitan women who quite naturally fit into an
         | international oriented lifestyle and/or community.
        
         | anigbrowl wrote:
         | Is it so quick? He talks about getting divorced in 2017/8, now
         | in 2023 he's 'recently remarried'. Staying out of relationships
         | for a year or two after a divorce seems wise, to deal with
         | difficult emotions and get a fresh perspective. But life goes
         | on.
        
       | resolutebat wrote:
       | Imagine running a business with a series of one-year guns pointed
       | at your head, never knowing if they'll go off. Countries can and
       | do summarily change the rules for work visas all the time: for
       | example, in Singapore during COVID, the government decided to
       | shore up local employment and score political points before an
       | election by suddenly announcing that spouses of employees could
       | no longer apply for work rights (Letter of Consent) and that
       | existing LOCs would not be renewed, throwing a lot of families
       | into disarray.
       | 
       | It's even worse for an unusual visa like this, where a lot is
       | left to interpretation. You may get a different officer this year
       | who is going to nix what the previous one allowed last year, and
       | appeals are uncertain, cumbersome and may require you to leave
       | the country.
        
       | cybrexalpha wrote:
       | Maybe things are different with Japanese immigration authorities,
       | but posting this feels dangerous.
       | 
       | In other countries there's a lot of attention on "fraudulent"
       | visas, and it's often vague what "fraudulent" means. I'd be
       | worried that some of the 'tricks' in here (the admission that the
       | business doesn't really need to be in Japan, the office
       | arrangement, etc.) could make immigration authorities revoke the
       | visa if they feel it was done under false pretences.
        
         | rdl wrote:
         | While I agree if he were doing anything questionable, IDK, my
         | reading is that he's exporting software development services
         | from Japan and paying taxes in Japan correctly on both business
         | income and personal income incident to doing this.
        
       | edandersen wrote:
       | This is also the visa that many middle class Taiwanese and
       | Chinese people use to move to Japan. It's basically a visa for
       | sale under the auspices of a "business visa".
        
         | nextworddev wrote:
         | And Tokyo is already showing signs of becoming Vancouver for
         | Canada, which pursued that visa strategy
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-24 23:01 UTC)