[HN Gopher] 2TB microSD card is on the way early next year
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       2TB microSD card is on the way early next year
        
       Author : brandrick
       Score  : 82 points
       Date   : 2023-12-23 20:49 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (overkill.wtf)
 (TXT) w3m dump (overkill.wtf)
        
       | guidedlight wrote:
       | If you want to blow the mind of a non-tech person. Show them a
       | high capacity MicroSD card and tell them how many 1's and 0's it
       | can reliably store.
       | 
       | A 2TB MicroSD card really is a modern marvel in engineering.
        
         | hackernewds wrote:
         | how many can they store?
        
           | bagels wrote:
           | Approximately sixteen trillion. I suspect that number is not
           | really comprehensible to a large population though.
        
             | 867-5309 wrote:
             | so the grains of sand on TRAPPIST-1e
        
             | midasuni wrote:
             | It's enough to store the name of every human being that has
             | ever lived.
        
             | llamaInSouth wrote:
             | This video helped me visualize how big of a number 1
             | trillion is:
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoOJggESR8o
             | 
             | Current US debt is almost 34 trillions?
             | https://www.usdebtclock.org/
        
             | wkjagt wrote:
             | If you were to count those at a rate of 1 per second, it
             | would take about half a million years.
        
           | oburb wrote:
           | 16,000,000,000,000
        
           | baal80spam wrote:
           | 1 Byte = 8 bits
           | 
           | 1 KByte = 8 * 1000 = 8 000 bits
           | 
           | 1 MByte = 8000 * 1000 = 8 000 000 bits
           | 
           | 1 GByte = 8000000 * 1000 = 8 000 000 000 bits
           | 
           | 1 TByte = 8000000000 * 1000 = 8 000 000 000 000 bits
           | 
           | 2 TBytes = 8000000000000 * 2 = 16 000 000 000 000 bits
           | 
           | All values approximate.
        
         | redserk wrote:
         | I have a frame of various media over the years over my desk
         | including a 5.25" floppy, a 3.5" floppy, ZIP disk, CD, Blu-Ray,
         | SD, microSD, etc.
         | 
         | As a technical person, my mind keeps getting blown.
        
           | fbdab103 wrote:
           | No Jaz drive?
        
           | pjerem wrote:
           | That's a really nice idea. Maybe I will steal it :)
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | That doesn't mean much though.
         | 
         | How about when you tell them it can store 38 seasons of TV
         | shows in HD?*
         | 
         | Or 40 dual-layer Blu-Ray discs?
         | 
         | Does it seem like a lot or a little?
         | 
         | *Assuming 4 GB per 60-min drama episode in 1080p, and 13
         | episodes/season, all of which is pretty ballpark.
        
           | arccy wrote:
           | with most laypeople streaming, they don't really have a sense
           | of how much space a season of tv shows is. you need something
           | more relatable, like photos
        
             | stavros wrote:
             | There was a thread here the other day about how everyone
             | just streams everything, and nobody knows what a file is
             | any more. Why would someone know how big a photo is?
             | They're all on Google anyway.
        
             | crooked-v wrote:
             | I think the obvious Americanized measurement here is
             | "number of football fields covered by 4x6 photos".
        
           | tomcam wrote:
           | Or almost 1 copy of the Oppenheimer director's cut
        
         | wkjagt wrote:
         | Depending on if they are old enough to remember floppy disks,
         | tell them the tiny card holds as much information as almost 1.4
         | million 3.5 inch floppy disks (assuming 1.44mb each). If you
         | pile those up, it would be about 4.5 km high. Or if you take
         | the 720kb kind, your pile would be as high as Mount Everest.
        
           | gxs wrote:
           | Holy shit that's a great way of putting it.
           | 
           | I'm not double checking the math but that's insane, 1.4
           | million, insane.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | I am old enough to have used 5 1/4 inches floppies on PCs
           | running MS-DOS, 3" microdrives on ZX Spectrum 3+, and tapes
           | on Timex 2068.
           | 
           | One of my teachers broke the compilation record of
           | compilation submissions per day, on the computing center,
           | with punched cards.
           | 
           | On my first trip to a computing center of the post office
           | during high school, they still used punched tape.
           | 
           | The modern SD cards are indeed a wonder.
        
             | lifeisstillgood wrote:
             | Yeah this is the corollary to "use boring technology" - at
             | some point, jump.
        
           | CapitalistCartr wrote:
           | They could put the capacity of every 3.5" floppy ever made in
           | a suitcase full of microSD cards.
        
             | paulkrush wrote:
             | A wild guess of 3.5 is 30B. So you need 21,428 SD cards. A
             | 15mm x 11mm x 1mm you need 3 1/2 liters.
        
               | Kye wrote:
               | The bandwidth of a station wagon hurtling down the
               | highway grows every year.
        
           | blowski wrote:
           | "I could have a bodycam record everything that happens to me
           | for a whole month, 24/7, in high-definition and store it on
           | something smaller than my fingernail."
        
             | Domenic_S wrote:
             | HD (1080p) video @ 30fps is from 130-149MB/sec
             | 
             | 2TB / 149MB = 13,422 minutes == 223.7 hours == 9.32 days
             | 
             | I'm being facetious of course but I was surprised by just
             | how much storage space I needed to record security cameras.
             | I have a mix of 4k & HD, and 10tb doesn't even get me a
             | month of 24/7.
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | YouTube's 1080p is 5 megabits per second, not 130
               | megabytes per second.
               | 
               | So 2TB lasts 37 days, meaning blowski is right.
               | 
               | Of course powering that bodycam will be a different
               | matter.
        
               | Domenic_S wrote:
               | Of course this is all academic: the file size depends on
               | the codec, ie how much you want to trade power for space.
               | YT/Netflix/etc obviously trade for file size very well.
               | But a body-worn device isn't as capable.
               | 
               | Take the Axon Body 2 as an example, the gold standard for
               | police bodycams. According to its specs [0] it'll record
               | 12 hours of 1080p video on its 64GB internal storage.
               | 
               | So using H.264 it produces 64gb/12hr == 5.333 (repeating
               | of course) GB/hr, making 2TB / 5.333GB == 375 hours, or
               | about 15.625 days
               | 
               | [0] https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/cms-
               | nppgov.resources/app/...
        
               | LASR wrote:
               | Video compression. Another separate modern marvel of
               | mathematics.
               | 
               | Not sure what security cameras you're using, but mine all
               | use H.264 1080p compressed streams. I get about 15 days
               | worth on a 2TB spinning rust across 6 cameras.
               | 
               | Even going by your own numbers, you almost certainly are
               | using compression too. 9.32 days on 2TB does not get you
               | a month on 10TB if you "have a mix of 4K & HD".
        
               | Domenic_S wrote:
               | [delayed]
        
           | stavros wrote:
           | This seems like it would work, but the average person has no
           | idea how high mount Everest is. My favorite way of explaining
           | it is when I was looking at Mount Olympus from the beach, and
           | said "you see the mountain? If you stack two more Olympuses
           | on top of that, it still wouldn't reach Everest".
        
             | wkjagt wrote:
             | Another way: taking the 720kb variety floppy, if you lay
             | them side by side it would form a line of 250km in length.
             | Or in other words: driving at highway speed, it would take
             | 2 and a half hours to drive by all the floppies it would
             | take to store what one of these new micro SD card can hold.
        
               | lifeisstillgood wrote:
               | Oh I love that!
        
         | candiodari wrote:
         | If you want to blow the mind of a tech person, tell them how
         | long it will store those 1's and 0's ... (~10 years max, flash
         | doesn't hold it's contents over time)
        
         | wslh wrote:
         | I remember showing my grandfather a Commodore Amiga playing a
         | Genesis song from a 3.5" floppy disk [1] and he just said:
         | "yes, it is just recorded on the disk". I tried to explain the
         | complexity (digital to analog processes) of this but he just
         | abstracted the idea thinking in other media like LPs, Casettes,
         | and the new CDs.
         | 
         | [1] https://youtu.be/_UnVy9w0xKk?si=kFwgo1qU6Dw9Y6sY
        
           | Cockbrand wrote:
           | Haha, I had a copy of that disk back in the day, but I
           | certainly haven't thought of it in the last 30 years. Thank
           | you for reminding me! While it was a bit of a marvel to put
           | an entire pop song onto an 880k disk, the not-so-hifi sound
           | quality was already apparent back then. I guess they forgot
           | to switch off the low pass filter by turning off the power
           | LED.
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | > tell them how many 1's and 0's it can _reliably_ store.
         | 
         | Zero.
        
         | jbverschoor wrote:
         | Reliable? 0. Sdcards are not reliable
        
           | prawn wrote:
           | I was using one for filming a client job the other day,
           | without a backup card. It cracked and bent in half and I
           | thought I was going to have to entirely reshoot the location.
           | Bent it back and put it in the laptop and got all the data
           | fine. Never had one fail.
        
         | soderfoo wrote:
         | The number of 1's and 0's is lower than the US national debt,
         | which is kind of bonkers.
        
         | pseudosavant wrote:
         | In case anyone else was wondering what the number is:
         | 17,592,186,044,416 bits. On a durable card that is smaller than
         | a stamp.
        
           | Tempest1981 wrote:
           | Sounds bigger than saying 2^44
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | With so many layers, I'd be deeply concerned about how fragile it
       | is. Probably much better off being inserted in a semi-permanent
       | role (Switch, Steam Deck), than camera storage.
        
         | 2024throwaway wrote:
         | Modern cameras often utilize CFexpress cards rather than
         | microSD
        
       | yellow_lead wrote:
       | I almost can't believe this. Even 1TB is an insane amount of
       | storage on something so small.
        
         | Hamuko wrote:
         | And they get incredibly affordable. I bought a 512 GB microSD
         | card for my Steam Deck a year ago for 38EUR.
         | 
         | Although I guess a 1 TB card would still cost me a whopping
         | 108EUR.
        
           | Etheryte wrote:
           | They're affordable, but also not all that reliable. I can't
           | even begin to count how many I've had fail on me over the
           | years.
        
             | fbdab103 wrote:
             | I was thinking similarly. Do I really want to rely upon 2TB
             | being stored in a SD card? Numerous failures over the year,
             | and only consider them for temporary storage.
             | 
             | How long does it even take to fill the drive?
        
               | pjerem wrote:
               | It depends on what you store and your backup strategy.
               | You rarely have 2TB of really precious data on a microSD.
               | 
               | microSD are meant to easily store a local copy of your
               | data, not to be a reliable long term storage.
               | 
               | You can also use it to store useful but not unique data
               | like games on a switch or a Steam deck. If the card fail,
               | all you lose is the time to redownload everything. Anyway
               | except if you do a lot of video, the really important
               | data (the really personal data you'll want to backup) is
               | rarely in TBs. It's mostly pictures and documents.
        
             | NewsyHacker wrote:
             | I had a 1TB card fail on me, but that only meant that the
             | card would no longer accept writes. I could still read
             | everything off it. Since I was using the card to carry my
             | entire music collection in FLAC on my phone, I was pretty
             | OK with that. Eventually, when I wanted to update that copy
             | of my music collection, I easily replaced the card under
             | warranty.
        
           | syndicatedjelly wrote:
           | I remember paying $50 for a 512 MB Memory Stick Pro Duo for a
           | PSP back in 2004
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_Stick
           | 
           | And then anyone else remember the 16 MB Memory Card for
           | Playstation? That was $20 in the early 2000s I believe
           | 
           | Crazy how much things change...
        
             | Hamuko wrote:
             | I paid 36EUR for a 16 GB PlayStation Vita memory card just
             | 9 years ago.
        
       | msoad wrote:
       | My first digital camera came with a 4MB SD card. What a time to
       | be alive!
        
       | daveguy wrote:
       | I remember when consumer external gigabyte hard drives were just
       | coming available. They were still thousands of dollars. They
       | weighed in the pounds, and about half a cubic foot in volume.
       | 
       | I mean, I remember floppies and 5.25 format hard drives in the kb
       | and multiple mb size too, but the gigabyte hard drive era seemed
       | like a significant milestone, so it made an impression. That gb
       | external drive was probably just multiple (4-8) 5.25 drives in a
       | case.
       | 
       | 1TB didn't make the same impression because we were already
       | getting to the "more than you need for most use cases" range and
       | the external formats were about as compact as the internal ones
       | with laptop form factor drives.
       | 
       | But TB scale in a micro SD format... Yeah, that is a similar
       | impression to the GB HDD era.
        
       | gene-h wrote:
       | The first 1TB microSD card was released in 2019[0]. It is
       | disappointing that the time to double was about 4 years.
       | 
       | [0]https://www.zdnet.com/article/micron-releases-worlds-
       | first-1...
        
         | The_Colonel wrote:
         | Well, we're getting to the point of diminishing returns. Who is
         | going to be buying these?
         | 
         | It's like with HDDs, very few consumers are buying these 20 TB
         | HDDs. Unlike HDDs, MicroSD is largely a consumer product.
        
           | 9point6 wrote:
           | The steam deck is a pretty good use case for these cards
        
             | brandrick wrote:
             | Baldur's Gate 3 is a 150GB install size, so with games of
             | this size increasingly being the norm it will quickly get
             | used up.
        
             | cloudking wrote:
             | I was going to say, has OP downloaded a game recently? You
             | can fit 10-20 modern games on this card tops.
        
           | radiorental wrote:
           | Action sports cams, dashcams, handheld gaming device such as
           | the switch and steamdeck, I'm sure there's plenty more
           | application. All fairly niche but it's a market
        
             | Hamuko wrote:
             | The Nintendo Switch has sold 132 million units, so I'm not
             | sure how niche that is. Presumably the successor is going
             | to keep using microSD cards, and filesizes will increase in
             | line with graphical capabilities.
        
               | The_Colonel wrote:
               | Cartridges are pretty popular, if only because you can
               | sell / borrow them.
               | 
               | I have an SD card for the online-only titles, but it's
               | pretty small IIRC.
               | 
               | But yeah, this still seems like a major use case for
               | larger MicroSD cards.
        
             | jclardy wrote:
             | I feel gaming devices are the primary target...as someone
             | who used to shoot wedding videography a few years ago,
             | there is a limit of how much footage you want to store on
             | one card - if only because you can easily lose them. The
             | smaller storage limit is a feature, not a bug :) It forces
             | "normal" users to actually figure out a backup solution.
             | Most action cams are going to take a long while to fill up
             | 2TB.
        
               | lnxg33k1 wrote:
               | I have a steam deck and have no interest in a 2tb sd
               | card, i am subscribed to some steam deck communities and
               | the preference, given the reliability of sd cards, is to
               | have multiple smaller rather than risk a single big sd
               | card to fail and having to reinstall them all
        
               | redundantly wrote:
               | I have a steam deck and my primary interest would be to
               | use it on mine. I'd apply the WORM method with it. Load
               | it up with ROMs and only ROMs. I have a back up of all
               | that data so suffering a failure would be a minor
               | inconvenience.
        
           | sigmoid10 wrote:
           | We're hitting diminishing returns in manufacturing,
           | irrespective of consumer vs enterprise markets. The biggest
           | datacenter SSD today is 100TB, up from 60TB in 2016. That's
           | just 67% growth over 7 years. And the price per TB has risen
           | significantly for these high end drives since then, so it is
           | a lot more economical to just buy more smaller drives.
        
           | thorum wrote:
           | The average person's storage needs will likely increase a lot
           | over the next decade: AI models, AR/VR, and six-degrees-of-
           | freedom video are very storage intensive technologies that
           | are close to going mainstream.
        
             | The_Colonel wrote:
             | I have strong doubts that an average person will have an
             | offline AI model.
        
           | bitmasher9 wrote:
           | I use microSDs for offline backups. Every Friday I zip my
           | home folder and copy it onto one of two rotating 1TB SSD. One
           | SSD stays at the house, another at my office, so I always
           | have a fairly recent offsite backup.
           | 
           | Using 1TB as my backup size I keep my active development
           | projects to a size limit of 1TB. That's fine for code, it can
           | fit all type typescript I want. I've began branching out into
           | asset heavy projects, such as video editing and game
           | development, and that 1TB limit is feeling more and more
           | constraining. Now every quarter or so I "archive" projects
           | out of my documents folder, which is a lengthier backup
           | process.
           | 
           | I know there are cloud based backup solutions, but I find
           | this way to be cheaper and having a physical copy to hold
           | gives me a feeling of security.
        
           | fastasucan wrote:
           | The file sizes of medium format cameras is gigantic.
        
           | lazycouchpotato wrote:
           | Back when phones had micro SD card slots, I would download my
           | entire music library from music streaming services for
           | offline listening. I also tend to take an excessive number of
           | photos and videos in the best quality possible with my phone,
           | and I'd offload them to the micro SD card to avoid filling up
           | my internal storage.
           | 
           | 4K60p video takes up a lot of space..
        
         | meristohm wrote:
         | Disappointing? We have magic at our fingertips and it's not
         | good enough yet? What are some cost of faster progress? Why are
         | you disappointed?
        
         | dmw_ng wrote:
         | You so much as blink at these cards and they mysteriously stop
         | booting, my 4K-capable A7R IV tops out at 100 Mbit/sec write
         | rate for video, that's almost 24 hours worth on a 1TB card.
         | 
         | Given the technical limitations of these devices, already
         | storing that much footage on a card that is so slow to backup
         | and with such limited rewrite lifetime seems insane. I love the
         | idea of 2TB in such a tiny package, but the reality of who
         | would actually buy these in large numbers and for what does not
         | quite seem to line up with the tech.
        
       | cmiller1 wrote:
       | That's a whole 25 Johnny Mnemonics! (Or 6 of him when he
       | quadruples his capacity which is life threateningly dangerous.)
        
         | redundantly wrote:
         | This is the best analogy in this thread by far.
        
       | Avshalom wrote:
       | Does any more knowledgeable person know if this is something that
       | will require hardware support or software support or should it
       | just plug and play in any old microsd slot?
        
         | londons_explore wrote:
         | The device itself will work in any old slot.
         | 
         | Unfortunately the protocols that run on top, and the
         | filesystems that are typically stored on them, both have
         | maximum size limits.
         | 
         | Generally, laptops/desktops will have no trouble. Your 2002
         | camera on the other hand probably won't work with it...
        
         | simbolit wrote:
         | * There is microSD from 1999, max capacity is 2GB.
         | 
         | * Then there is the 2006 update microSDHC, max capacity was
         | 32GB.
         | 
         | * And since 2009 we use microSDXC, max capacity is 2TB.
         | 
         | * In 2019, the next update came out, microSDUC, max capacity is
         | 128TB. As far as I know there are no actual products yet.
         | 
         | You need a reader of the same type of your card or higher.
         | Otherwise, it might not work at all, or you can only read the
         | first x gb of your larger card.
         | 
         | I am not knowledgeable, but I know how to use Wikipedia.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SD_card#microSD
        
           | Avshalom wrote:
           | The thing is that for instance my Moto-G
           | https://www.motorola.com/us/smartphones-moto-g-
           | power-5g/p?sk... says it's supports up to 1TB, which is...
           | none of those standards. So is this a situation where they're
           | using 1TB because that's what currently exists as-of time of
           | that website being written or is this a situation where no
           | one actually bothers to implement the whole standard?
           | 
           | That's why I was asking.
        
       | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
       | If you don't mind shopping a bit off-brand, like SanDian and
       | Sansumg, they're already available, e.g.
       | https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006108748036.html
       | 
       | (caution: read the one-star reviews)
        
       | cyanydeez wrote:
       | corporate spies rejoice?
       | 
       | whose filling up terabytes at this size?
        
         | recursive wrote:
         | Smaller is better. Having a terabyte of data isn't all that
         | unusual.
        
       | CrypticShift wrote:
       | What about speed? Is the adoption of SD Express slow compared to
       | previous standards? I never see any computer (or smartphone)
       | specs advertising "microSD Express" speeds, and it is already 4
       | years old.
       | 
       | The coming standard claims "up to 2GB/s possible." [1], and at
       | this "speed" (of adoption, that is), this is not coming anytime
       | soon.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.pcworld.com/article/2124706/sd-
       | express-9-1-new-s...
        
         | _joel wrote:
         | Says it in the artcice
         | 
         | "The upcoming 2TB card, dubbed the 'EXCERIA PLUS G2' is said to
         | have read speeds of up to 100 MB a second and write speeds of
         | up to 90 MB a second. This 2TB size now hits the upper storage
         | capacity of the defined SDXC standard."
         | 
         | Not sure about IOPS but if you're streaming media or large game
         | assets, sure that's fine.
        
         | tpolzer wrote:
         | SD Express is basically dead as far as I can tell.
         | 
         | SD card users who care about speed have UHS-II equipment, but
         | SD Express and UHS-II use mutually incompatible high speed
         | signalling on the same pins (so cards and readers are only
         | supporting one of the two - I guess technically this could be
         | fixable with special purpose chips, but at large cost).
         | 
         | Users who care about speed but not about SD card compatibility
         | are already using CFExpress, which is supported by most modern
         | professional cameras and has much better hardware availability
         | than SD Express.
        
       | pulse7 wrote:
       | Imagine storing whole internet text from November/December 2023
       | on 5 such microSD cards (CommonCrawl.org WET files for this crawl
       | are 9.30 TiB)...
        
       | CosmicShadow wrote:
       | If only they'd let you put any SD card in a new phone, but nah,
       | how about an extra $500 for like 256gb
        
         | crtasm wrote:
         | You can if you buy the right phone, I believe?
        
           | Riseed wrote:
           | Every SD-accepting phone I've had has had a cap on the
           | capacity card it would accept. Not sure whether that's the
           | norm or if I didn't buy the right phones.
        
       | hiddencost wrote:
       | That's enough to store chat GPT.
       | 
       | As you can imagine, infosec people are stressed.
        
       | KeplerBoy wrote:
       | Are microSD cards the densest we can store information digital
       | information?
       | 
       | As in bytes/mm3 or bytes/gramm.
        
       | seanalltogether wrote:
       | I would be happy just getting a micro SD UHS-II card with decent
       | storage. All this storage space and it takes forever to transfer
       | anything to it on UHS-I
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Just don't get them from Amazon.
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | From the photo, the 2TB microSD card appears to be UHS Speed
       | Class 3 (U3) and Video Speed Class 30 (V30) which correspond to a
       | minimum of 30 MB/s transfer speed [1]. This is good but still
       | pales in comparison with external SSDs with >1,000 MB/s transfer
       | speeds [2] and internal SSDs with >7,000 MB/s transfer speeds
       | [3].
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.kingston.com/en/blog/personal-storage/memory-
       | car...
       | 
       | [2]: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-external-hard-
       | driv...
       | 
       | [3]: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-ssds,3891.html
        
         | Sakos wrote:
         | I'm more concerned about the possible write endurance and long-
         | term durability of the data. I've had more than one 512GB SD
         | card fail recently despite not owning them for long.
        
       | wizardforhire wrote:
       | Wow! Now I can have an 8TB iPod!
        
         | LASR wrote:
         | Or a 2TB action camera. Not having to carry around multiple of
         | these tiny things when going on vacation is a big QoL
         | improvement.
         | 
         | I've lost a few 256GB ones over the years. Only once with
         | footage on it. But it was a whole day's worth of my toddler's
         | first time in Disneyland. We were all very sad.
        
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       (page generated 2023-12-23 23:01 UTC)